Bowling For Columbine [Archive] - Jazzcorner's Speakeasy

tippy

March-24th-2003, 01:32 AM

Patricia, I saw that too. He didn't present himself very well--whether I agree with him or not is another story--but I imagine it's hard to keep cool when they're coming at you with a big hook.

It reminded me of an Erykah Badu song (which I'm sure I've posted before): >>What good will your words do if they can't understand you.<<

I appreciated Adrien Brody's comments against war. He received a standing ovation. And an academy award. I really like him alot. Haven't even seen his movie, I just like him. And he's from Queens! (Queens was in the Oscar hizz-ouse tonight!)

(Sorry to digress with my frills, Patricia, but I didn't want to start a new thread.)

Bush's best chance is fulltime neverending war time because then he is untouchable. Everyone is biting their tongues and praying for a miracle.

patricia

March-24th-2003, 01:42 AM

Originally posted by tippy
Patricia, I saw that too. He didn't present himself very well--whether I agree with him or not is another story--but I imagine it's hard to keep cool when they're coming at you with a big hook.

It reminded me of an Erykah Badu song (which I'm sure I've posted before): >>What good will your words do if they can't understand you.<<

I appreciated Adrien Brody's comments against war. He received a standing ovation. And an academy award. I really like him alot. Haven't even seen his movie, I just like him. And he's from Queens! (Queens was in the Oscar hizz-ouse tonight!)

(Sorry to digress with my frills, Patricia, but I didn't want to start a new thread.)

Bush's best chance is fulltime neverending war time because then he is untouchable. Everyone is biting their tongues and praying for a miracle.

I agree with your comments on Moore and Brody. Anger isn't polite, but Brody did have the footage from his film to soften his message.
Lord knows I'm praying for a miracle.
Many of my friends, Canadians, fought in Vietnam and three of the guys with whom I graduated highschool died there. The faces of those scared boys and that girl brought back the faces of my friends. Tragedy that didn't have to happen. They are children.

What broke my heart was one of the POW's being asked if he had come to Iraq to kill Iraqi people, to which he answered that he didn't come to kill anyone, that he had come to "fix broke stuff".

The television stations in the U.S. have not shown the film that we've seen in Canada, of the captured U.S. service people, although they certainly don't hesitate to show Iraqi soldiers, dead on the ground.
I am repulsed by the horror, but that's what war is.
I want them home and this to be settled some other way, but hell will freeze over before that will happen. So sad.
No easy way out now.

moneyp

March-24th-2003, 01:59 AM

I liked Bowling for Columbine, and while I share Moore's outlook, I think he made a real ass out of himself tonight. I know he sees himself as a guerilla of sorts, but I seriously doubt that his public outbursts really do his cause any good, and as someone who resides on his side of the political fence (mostly), I sometimes wish he would shut up. We're not all reactionaries.

Bringing up the other documentary nominees with him was a nice gesture, though.

Brody rocked. Smooched Halle Berry, shook off the "get off the stage" music with elan, didn't thank his publicist and delivered some eloquent and sincere sentiments without preaching or sensationalising. Best Oscar speech ever.

patricia

March-24th-2003, 02:09 AM

Originally posted by mone peterson
I liked Bowling for Columbine, and while I share Moore's outlook, I think he made a real ass out of himself tonight. I know he sees himself as a guerilla of sorts, but I seriously doubt that his public outbursts really do his cause any good, and as someone who resides on his side of the political fence (mostly), I sometimes wish he would shut up. We're not all reactionaries.

Bringing up the other documentary nominees with him was a nice gesture, though.

Brody rocked. Smooched Halle Berry, shook off the "get off the stage" music with elan, didn't thank his publicist and delivered some eloquent and sincere sentiments without preaching or sensationalising. Best Oscar speech ever.

I saw "Columbine" with Erin and was pleased that it made her think about it's subject matter. Not a small accomplishment.
I agree that Moore isn't polished and sophistocated, but his outburst was sincere. Brody delivered a similar sentiment and, I think, was better received because of his gentle demeanor and the footage from his film didn't hurt. Great speech and terrific dip-kiss. :)
Michael Moore is a plain-spoken guy with a message, while carried in a lunchbox, isn't any less valid than Brody's.
Probably not the best platform, but I can't condemn Moore.

BTW, did you see the "peace" sign that Susan Sarandon flashed on her way to the podium??

moneyp

March-24th-2003, 03:17 AM

Originally posted by patricia
I agree that Moore isn't polished and sophistocated, but his outburst was sincere. Brody delivered a similar sentiment and, I think, was better received because of his gentle demeanor and the footage from his film didn't hurt.

*snip*

Michael Moore is a plain-spoken guy with a message, while carried in a lunchbox, isn't any less valid than Brody's.
Probably not the best platform, but I can't condemn Moore.

I have to disagree, Pat. Moore's "message" was Bush is a moron, the election is a farce, the reasons behind the war are a farce. It's less valid because it strays far from the point. Pointing out that Bush is a moron doesn't resolve or suggest anything. I'm not criticising Moore's bluntness or his lunchbox. I'm criticising the direction of his message.

BTW, did you see the "peace" sign that Susan Sarandon flashed on her way to the podium??

Yeah, I did. Babs looked like she wanted to say something and thought better of it (and thank god... I hate that woman).

BTW, we had a great gambling game going on here where people were making side bets on whether or not the person at the mic would make a reference to the war. I came ahead fifteen bucks thanks to Chris Cooper and the gent who introduced the clip of Frida (who Mel was positively lusting after). Somebody put up twenty bucks that Paul Simon would say or do *something.* It got very tense.

Angie

March-24th-2003, 03:17 AM

Well I watched and I'm glad Michael Moore won an Oscar with 'Bowling for Columbine'. He was a long shot. He got cleaned up and put on a tuxedo, but I just knew that he wouldn't be able to resist the temptation to make a statement. He's a little rough around the edges. Will he be invited back to the annual Oscar celebrations, or was this it?

Yes, I caught Susan Sarandon's peace sign as she made her way to the microphone . She's cool.

I did not miss Joan Rivers or the red carpet!

It was a nice diversion from watching war on tv.

moneyp

March-24th-2003, 03:22 AM

Originally posted by Angie
Well I watched and I'm glad Michael Moore won an Oscar with 'Bowling for Columbine'. He was a long shot. He got cleaned up and put on a tuxedo, but I just knew that he wouldn't be able to resist the temptation to make a statement. He's a little rough around the edges. Will he be invited back to the annual Oscar celebrations, or was this it?

No, I don't think he'll be invited back. They haven't invited back Sacheen Littlefeather...

Ron Thorne

March-24th-2003, 03:41 AM

Originally posted by mone peterson
I have to disagree, Pat. Moore's "message" was Bush is a moron, the election is a farce, the reasons behind the war are a farce. It's less valid because it strays far from the point. Pointing out that Bush is a moron doesn't resolve or suggest anything. I'm not criticising Moore's bluntness or his lunchbox. I'm criticising the direction of his message.

I understand that the thrust of Michael Moore's comments were as you suggested. I believe the word Michael Moore used to characterize Bush's claim to the presidency, the war, etc. was "fictitious". I didn't hear the word "moron" or "farce" used by Moore, unless our broadcast was censored. Of course, I live in a "foreign country" where other Americans have actually asked what kind of money we use, why don't the igloos melt, etc., so ...

Having said that, I don't think Moore reached much of anyone who wasn't already a member of the choir. I'll defend his right to use a show such as the Academy Awards as a platform, though. What makes Adrian Brody's remarks any more credible? Style? Appearance? Less in-your-face? More appealing and palatable perhaps, but not necessarily any more sincere or on-target.

Sergio Zamora

March-24th-2003, 03:55 AM

I didn't see the show, but I'm glad Moore said what he said. With all the effort the producers went to only have compliant presenters who'd keep shut, the only people they couldn't control were the award winners. Good for him.

moneyp

March-24th-2003, 04:19 AM

Originally posted by Ron Thorne
I believe the word Michael Moore used to characterize Bush's claim to the presidency, the war, etc. was "fictitious". I didn't hear the word "moron" or "farce" used by Moore, unless our broadcast was censored. Of course, I live in a "foreign country" where other Americans have actually asked what kind of money we use, why don't the igloos melt, etc., so ...

Okay, so remove the "moron" part, but the rest of my statement still stands. No, he didn't say farce, but he's clearly alleging it. The election results are fictitious, the reasons for going to war are fictitious, shame on Bush, we don't support him, as if we haven't been watching CNN interviewing protestors saying the exact same thing. I'm sure if Bush knows the slightest thing about Michael Moore, he already knows his stance on this.

Having said that, I don't think he reached much of anyone who wasn't already a member of the choir. I'll defend his right to use a show such as the Academy Awards as a platform, though. What makes Adrian Brody's remarks any more credible? Style? Appearance? Less in-your-face?

Oy. ONE MORE TIME. I'm not debating his delivery, his bluntness, or even the "appropriateness" of it. I don't give a fig about the debating the decorum of the Oscar ceremony, alright? (Although someone here called it "plain bad manners" and I won't argue with that, either).

And the difference is that Brody, unlike Moore, isn't making a statement or criticising anyone, he's expressing a sentiment. "I *hope* this ends swiftly and peacefully." His credibility can only be determined to the extent that you can read his mind.

I'm criticising Moore's statement from the standpoint of someone who would like to have seen the opportunity of this very public forum, if it was going to be used, with more purpose than to repeat the same old rant.

Al in NYC

March-24th-2003, 04:22 AM

Well, I certainly support Michael's right to say whatever he wants, and I'm pretty much completely on his side, but I must say that I cringe whenever he opens his mouth -- very much including his Oscar "moment". He and I travelled in somewhat the same circles back in Michigan in the '80's, and I always found him quite goofy, overly excitable, kinda aggravating, completely unsubtle in his approach, all over the place in his thinking and expression, and, frankly, more than a little clueless on the deeper history, ideology, and literature behind some of his causes celebre. Like many others who knew him "when," I'm rather surprised and fascinated by the extent of his success (although I did like "Roger & Me" quite a lot, and thought that "Bowling" was interesting in spots too). In many ways though he's the Limbaugh of the left.

Ron Thorne

March-24th-2003, 04:27 AM

Please excuse me for not "getting it" the first time, Moné. I'm tired, too.

Cheers, and sleep tight.

Peace~

· I'm glad that I wasn't poster #666 in The Alley.

gonzo

March-24th-2003, 04:43 AM

both films are excellent!!, but what kind of society do we live in that chastises a man who is acting upon his rights of free speech and celebrate a man who is a convicted, fugitive, CHILD MOLESTER. for god's sake he drugged her and then sodomized her, and all michael moore did was speak the truth. do any of you have preteen daughter??!! one gets applause, one gets booed.

moneyp

March-24th-2003, 05:33 AM

Comments from a friend of mine on Moore's speech. If Moore had actually said something along these lines, I'd be applauding him.

"So, what did you expect? You think Michael Moore's going to say nothing? Well, I'll tell what I think. For almost two years we've been told that we should shut up and not ask questions, and that dissent is somehow un-American (as if blind obedience to authority is somehow an American quality) and that whatever occasion for speaking out is not the right one. Protesters should stay home. We should all just salute and follow our leaders into war. We should stand by while extremist zealots gut our Constitution, cynically and obscenely exploiting the atrocity of 9/11 to attack our freedoms, to attack women and minorities and the poor and those who are not fundamentalist Christians. And we're supposed to shut up. But Michael Moore doesn't shut up. He's using any avenue he can to express a different point of view. And it's not as if the media is bursting with different points of view. We need more people like him, and I for one am grateful. If you want a tame little frightened 1950s America where people cower and only say safe things, then you're welcome to it."

Sand

March-24th-2003, 05:47 AM

BOWLING FOR COLUMBINE
Michael Moore and Michael Donovan
ACCEPTANCE SPEECH
Michael Moore: Whoa. On behalf of our producers Kathleen Glynn and Michael Donovan from Canada, I'd like to thank the Academy for this. I have invited my fellow documentary nominees on the stage with us, and we would like to — they're here in solidarity with me because we like nonfiction. We like nonfiction and we live in fictitious times. We live in the time where we have fictitious election results that elects a fictitious president. We live in a time where we have a man sending us to war for fictitious reasons. Whether it's the fictition of duct tape or fictition of orange alerts we are against this war, Mr. Bush. Shame on you, Mr. Bush, shame on you. And any time you got the Pope and the Dixie Chicks against you, your time is up. Thank you very much.
( http://www.oscars.com/oscarnight/winners/win_32297.html)

Gary Delligatti

March-24th-2003, 07:10 AM

I am also a fan of Michael Moore, loved "Bowling for Columbine" and loved the book, "Stupid White People". I also think he kinda made an ass out of himself as well. I respect the right he has in voicing his opinion, I just don't think the Oscar's is the place for it.
How do you all feel about it? Is it the right venue to voice a political opinion?

GaryD

Jimmy Cantiello

March-24th-2003, 08:02 AM

So, did they give any Oscars out and show any clips from movies or did everyone who went onstage make a political speech?............

Yeah, yeah, I used one of those stupid little emoticons, what's it to ya?

patricia

March-24th-2003, 09:53 AM

Originally posted by Jimmy Cantiello
So, did they give any Oscars out and show any clips from movies or did everyone who went onstage make a political speech?............

Yeah, yeah, I used one of those stupid little emoticons, what's it to ya?

Yes, Jimmy, they handed out the statues and "Chicago" cleaned up. The majority of the recipients did not make anti-war speeches and I was not surprised.
In an industry which depends on the public's support of their work, by seeing their films, the risk of voicing dissent is high, so I suspect that most, who feel as Moore clearly does, decided not to say anything.
I think that Mone' makes an interesting point about the young woman who accepted Marlon Brando's statue for "The Godfather" and spoke of the plight of the American Indian. Even Brando didn't deliver the point himself. She sank out of sight, never to be seen again.
It's easy to condemn Moore and stand with those who don't want to make waves.

Ron,
When I commented on the contrast between Moore and Brody's demeanor, I meant that Moore was being true to his feelings, as was Brody. The message I took, from both their comments, was that the war is an unnessesary obscenity which could have been avoided and should have been avoided.
Nicole Kidman lamented the war also, but was very careful to hide her anger, if she felt anger

This morning, Moore's little speech was featured on the morning news on CBC Newsworld. It was shown after a discussion of the apparantly bloodless war that Americans are seeing.
Good taste and war are contradictory terms.

Tanager

March-24th-2003, 11:04 AM

My wife actually asked me, "why did Brody kiss Halle Berry?" I stared, slackjawed, then managed to gasp out, "because he could."

tippy

March-24th-2003, 11:12 AM

I'm criticising Moore's statement from the standpoint of someone who would like to have seen the opportunity of this very public forum, if it was going to be used, with more purpose than to repeat the same old rant.

That sums it up for me.

By the way, did you guys notice how *pissed* off Halle looked after Brody kissed her like that?

patricia

March-24th-2003, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by tippy
That sums it up for me.

By the way, did you guys notice how *pissed* off Halle looked after Brody kissed her like that?

I noticed that Halle passed her hand over her lips and was not smiling. But, as was said earlier he did it because he could and how many of our guys would have passed on the opportunity?
I blame him for a certain lapse in propriety, but only gently. :)

patricia

March-24th-2003, 11:38 AM

double post.

Jazzooo

March-24th-2003, 11:53 AM

Ok, a lot of thoughts after reading this thread.

First of all, as for the lady who made the speech on behalf of Brando "Never being invited back..." Come on. She wasn't invited in the first place, and besides she's not a talented filmmaker like Moore. He will be back, and if he is blackballed from the awards, what does that say about our much vaunted tolerence for freedom of speech in this country?

Second, I thought Hallie Berry's obvious revulsion, some moments AFTER the kiss was either hamming it up for the camera to steal attention away from the award-winner or just in bad taste. Graceless. Either way, I think people should have booed *her*. Come on, Hallie--are you now incapable of accepting that sometimes, in a sweep of emotion, people get carried away and act a little weird? Don't you remember...YOUR ACCEPTANCE SPEECH AT LAST YEAR'S OSCARS, FOR EXAMPLE? ;)

Third--one big difference between Moore and Brody that no one will admit to was the presentation of a thin, well dressed PROFESSIONAL ACTOR versus a chaotic, obese and slovenly man wearing a rented tux that didn't--couldn't--quite fit. As Steve Martin so beautifully pointed out, in Hollywood you can succeed whether you're tall or short, thin or skinny.

Fourth: Mone said this:
"If Moore had actually said something along these lines, I'd be applauding him.

"So, what did you expect? You think Michael Moore's going to say nothing? Well, I'll tell what I think. For almost two years we've been told that we should shut up and not ask questions, and that dissent is somehow un-American (as if blind obedience to authority is somehow an American quality) and that whatever occasion for speaking out is not the right one. Protesters should stay home. We should all just salute and follow our leaders into war. We should stand by while extremist zealots gut our Constitution, cynically and obscenely exploiting the atrocity of 9/11 to attack our freedoms, to attack women and minorities and the poor and those who are not fundamentalist Christians. And we're supposed to shut up. But Michael Moore doesn't shut up. He's using any avenue he can to express a different point of view. And it's not as if the media is bursting with different points of view. We need more people like him, and I for one am grateful. If you want a tame little frightened 1950s America where people cower and only say safe things, then you're welcome to it."
"

Mone', I believe that's pretty much what Moore said in a nutshell. And the continuing tongue clucking about this guy taking up 40 seconds of tv time (on a show that most of us profess to hate) to actually speak his mind proves his point.

As for him saying "the same old thing..." that's ridiculous. When was the last time you saw anyone say on TV (other than Politically Incorrect or an HBO special) without equivocation that he believed that our presidential election was fictitious and that this the war, only days old, was being fought for fictitious reasons? Don't confuse the chat on a jazz BBS for what Moore and others did last night.

I did groan in the middle of his rant, just like I groaned at the little Hispanic actor's speech. I groan at speeches, that's what I do. But in retrospect, I think the problem is more mine than Moore's.

tippy

March-24th-2003, 12:14 PM

>>I did groan in the middle of his rant, just like I groaned at the little Hispanic actor's speech. I groan at speeches, that's what I do. But in retrospect, I think the problem is more mine than Moore's.<<

That's a possibility. Good looking people can get away with anything and Michael, well he doesn't cut such a fine figure in Hollywood terms.

I think Brody's sucking Halle's face was splended but I don't blame her for being revolted either...he did clearly slobber all over her. She saved her revulsion for after she'd left the podium so she was compliant for the audience. I don't blame either of them for their reactions.

Jazzooo

March-24th-2003, 12:21 PM

he didn't "clearly slobber" all over her, Tip. Don't forget that you were watching two professional actors--in fact, both had recently been awarded for being the tops in their trade. I think he was acting as if he was passionately kissing her (I doubt there was any tongue involved), and she was acting like she had slobber on her lower lip...but like i pointed out, many moments had passed. That slobber would have been wiped up already. The more I think about it, the more I believe that she was just hamming it up for a little extra attention and maybe a laugh that didn't materialize, so she played it like she was pissed.

What, you don't think actors think about getting a little extra attention? :)

tippy

March-24th-2003, 12:23 PM

You are obviously correct, Jazzoo. Please excuse me.

Truth be told, I think we are both wrong. My very first impression was that her display was for her husband and her husband only. ;>)

Tanager

March-24th-2003, 12:24 PM

I'll admit - a gentler kiss with a little more . . . grace might have been more welcome.

As for the assertion that most JC men would have done the same...I frankly doubt most of us would have had the cojones. I damned sure wouldn't have (but I'd have dreamed about it for a while afterwards).

Jazzooo

March-24th-2003, 12:59 PM

Tippy, if you're being sarcastic...I'll have to kiss you.

tippy

March-24th-2003, 01:04 PM

I amended Jazzooo...

>>Truth be told, I think we are both wrong. My very first impression was that her display was for her husband and her husband only. ;>)

If you catch my drift. Who knows, they might be married in six months. lol

Ron Thorne

March-24th-2003, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by patricia
.It's easy to condemn Moore and stand with those who don't want to make waves.

Ron,
When I commented on the contrast between Moore and Brody's demeanor, I meant that Moore was being true to his feelings, as was Brody. The message I took, from both their comments, was that the war is an unnessesary obscenity which could have been avoided and should have been avoided.

I agree, Patricia. I wasn't taking exception with your comments with respect to Brody, actually.

"Good taste and war are contradictory terms"

Amen.

Nice post, Jazzooo.

Jazzooo

March-24th-2003, 01:15 PM

hard to keep up with these ammended posts! I suspect that, once again, you're onto something, Tip.

Thanks, Ron.

By the way--did anyone else enjoy Steve Martin as much as I did? "If you'd like a transcript of this evening's proceedings, then start writing down everythig we're saying now." I thought his humor had a nice edge to it--I liked the line about how Hollywood was finally giving screenwirters respect. "I recently submitted a script and the studio didn't change one word...the one word they didn't change was on page 87."

Granted he's no Chevy Chase...;)

But let us all pray that there IS no sequel to Bringing Down the House, a truly awful movie.

Tom Storer

March-24th-2003, 01:29 PM

Mone, I agree with your friend whom you quoted. Having only read Moore's (very brief) intervention, I must say it seems quick and to the point. He challenged Bush's legitimacy as president, challenged the reasons for the war, pointed out that there IS anti-war sentiment in the world, and said "Shame on you." Succinct and frank. I like it.

I think he must be very aware that moments like the Oscar awards are for sound bites, and getting an unapologetically anti-war and anti-Bush sound bite on prime time TV in America today is worth a large demonstration.

moneyp

March-24th-2003, 01:56 PM

Originally posted by patricia
I noticed that Halle passed her hand over her lips and was not smiling. But, as was said earlier he did it because he could and how many of our guys would have passed on the opportunity?
I blame him for a certain lapse in propriety, but only gently. :)

And given who's presenting next year, I'm gonna do my damnedest to win a Best Actor.

moneyp

March-24th-2003, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by Jazzooo
Mone', I believe that's pretty much what Moore said in a nutshell. And the continuing tongue clucking about this guy taking up 40 seconds of tv time (on a show that most of us profess to hate) to actually speak his mind proves his point.

No, Doug, that isn't what he said, not even in a nutshell.

As for him saying "the same old thing..." that's ridiculous. When was the last time you saw anyone say on TV (other than Politically Incorrect or an HBO special) without equivocation that he believed that our presidential election was fictitious and that this the war, only days old, was being fought for fictitious reasons?

Yesterday, when they interviewed some protestors on CNN. It's almost EXACTLY what they were saying.

Jazzooo

March-24th-2003, 02:30 PM

Well, at the risk of completely hijacking this movie thread, I considered ABC's constant interruptions telling us the same war news over and over in addition to the constant running 'crawl" on CNN quoting one-liners from Bush to be 'the same old thing."

patricia

March-24th-2003, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by Jazzooo
Well, at the risk of completely hijacking this movie thread, I considered ABC's constant interruptions telling us the same war news over and over in addition to the constant running 'crawl" on CNN quoting one-liners from Bush to be 'the same old thing."

First of all, Jazzooo, don't worry about hijacking a movie thread. Moore's accepting of his Oscar and the attendant attempt to make a point, that I think many other people secretly wanted to make on a world-wide stage was probably the point of the thread.
The film for which he won the Oscar, for those who haven't seen it, is excellent and deserved the award.
As I say, it would have been odd if he had just said "Thank you very much. Goodbye" and waved the statue and left the stage.
I expected him to do pretty well what he did. His views, though rough around the edges, are well known.

Interestingly, Moore's "Shame on you, Mr. Bush" today, on CBC Newsworld, has been seen, every time even brief mention of the Academy Awards is made. So, it isn't being ignored here.

As for the "crawl", I suppose people have gotten so used to constant reports, even if there is nothing new to report. Guys and girls in uniform, marching, setting up tents, talking about their families, while a good portion of the viewers want to see something blow up. Obscene.
I still remember the first Gulf War, which seemed more like a video game than a war in which people die and lives are changed forever. It's not just TV.

al j

March-24th-2003, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by mone peterson
And given who's presenting next year, I'm gonna do my damnedest to win a Best Actor.

If there's a supporting slot in your film, I know a guy who'd do his best for a shot at dry humping the lovely CZ Jones.

kc bob

March-24th-2003, 09:06 PM

I didn't watch the Oscars partly because I already knew what my fave was last year w/out having to be told by a panel and partly because I didn't have a clue it was happening. It was 'Spirited Away'. Newly released to US last year anyway.

Nathaniel Catchpole

March-24th-2003, 09:50 PM

Never watch the Oscars, but didn't a load of people say they would (or might) boycott it. Did that happen?

Monte Smith

March-25th-2003, 01:00 AM

Now wait a second, wait a second, wait a second.

I just heard Moore's impolitic rant at the Oscars. He didn't just call the times we live in "fictitious." He also said, "We don't believe in the fictition of duct tape."

Seems to me that if someone, perhaps a person who isn't a great bouncing merde of a Leftist crank, made a similar mistake in their speech (and I don't have anyone in particular in mind), that might be the first thing anyone on this board posted about.

But maybe ignoring the use of the neologism "fictitition" is good strategery. Ignoring a moron like Moore sure is.

patricia

March-25th-2003, 01:48 AM

Originally posted by Monte Smith
Now wait a second, wait a second, wait a second.

I just heard Moore's impolitic rant at the Oscars. He didn't just call the times we live in "fictitious." He also said, "We don't believe in the fictition of duct tape."

Seems to me that if someone, perhaps a person who isn't a great bouncing merde of a Leftist crank, made a similar mistake in their speech (and I don't have anyone in particular in mind), that might be the first thing anyone on this board posted about.

But maybe ignoring the use of the neologism "fictitition" is good strategery. Ignoring a moron like Moore sure is.

Monte, I must take issue with regard to your nitpicking of Mr Moore's command of the English language. You're right [I think] that "fictician" isn't a word, but what the hell. Language is a mode of communication, designed to express one's thoughts and feelings, and Mr Moore created a word, ON THE SPOT, to express how he felt. I think we should admire him for doing that rather than condemn him.

Jazzooo

March-25th-2003, 03:19 AM

yeah, that's really going to work, Patricia. I can hear Monte beginning to appreciate Moore right now.

patricia

March-25th-2003, 09:58 AM

Originally posted by Jazzooo
yeah, that's really going to work, Patricia. I can hear Monte beginning to appreciate Moore right now.

I know. I know. But Monte's point was petty, IMO, in light of the larger picture. Considering that Moore doesn't pretend to be anything more than an "everyman", I think that his grammer is unimportant, compared to the message he was attempting to deliver to probably the largest TV audience that is available.
Whether we think that the stage he chose was appropriate, or not, a lot of people heard his heartfelt rant, which, despite his tenuous grasp of language, was heard and is still being heard. I say, "Good for him".