Philip Glass

[Salvador Dali Lama]

Is this guy the man or what?

I've sort-of liked him for a long time now, had bouts of enjoying stuff he did and bouts of hating it all because it sounds so similar. Or so I thought at the time.

But I guess when I was watching Mishima last night, it clicked for me if you know what I mean. Thats not to say I didnt get his music before and now I do, but all of a sudden I cant get enough of this guy. Good God. The Mishima score is awesome. I don't actually have anything by him other than the Qatsi movies on DVD, which to me are as much about his music as they are the visuals. I'll probably go burn some money on Glass records tomorrow. I figure maybe now is the time for me to join the majority of middle class Americans in debt.

I think I'll go watch some Qatsi's for now.

but anyway, what do you guys think of Glass?

[Dennis Gonzalez]

Good to drink out of. Good to see through.

See also Cup, and Window.

[Pete C]

Originally posted by Salvador Dali Lama
Is this guy the man or what?

what

[bluenoter]

The trajectory of old Glass threads seems to be strong putdowns, qualified putdowns, and finally grudging acknowledgments that a few older Glass works are great.

You go, SDL!

[moneyp]

So now I suppose it's a bad time to say that I never really cared for him, huh?

[Pete C]

Surely someone will pipe in and say the Einstein On The Beach is the greatest opera ever written.

[dbrhythm]

I've only listened to a few. Of those, the one I like the most is "Music with Changing Parts." When the time calls for it, there's no other. The one I hate the most is "Low Symphony -- from the Music of David Bowie and Brian Eno."

[graypencil]

Sorry, SDL and other Glassophiliacs ..

cant buy Glass' ..uh .."music"... I absolutely abhor it without any reservation, ALL of it.. regardless ..

To me , it's the musical equivalent ( and even qualifying it as "music" for the sake of comparison gives me agita ) of Walter Keane or Walter Kincaide artwork ..

endlessly repetitive rote sequences of pandiatonic pablum played by several keboard players.. with an occasional soprno sax ( or vocal) melodic element superomposed to enhance the illusion that he's actually going anyplace from a musical structure viewpoint ..

I once watched thirty minutes of "Koiaannosquatsi" (sp?) in a theatre ..but then had to leave with a screaming migrane from the relentlessly LOUD AND REPETETETETETIVE borning score ..

you want the Republican Guard prisoners to confess and tell us where the alleged WOMD are hidden ?

..lock 'em in a room with a Philip Glass score playing on a loop .. at about 100 Db ..

..they'll give up everything in less than two hours ..




I trust I've belabored this screed of musical abhorrence sufficiently :)

[Salvador Dali Lama]

See this is what I thought for a long time too. I thought he heard an Eric Dolphy record, found one riff he liked, and built his entire repitoire on it. But theres so much more to it than that. You just have to listen differently, I cant quite explain it. I used to shit on him real nice like. But now I understand how to listen to his work. The repetition in it is key. Theres actually a lot of sublte things going on. All I can say is check out the Mishima soundtrack, maybe it will convert you like it did me.

There was also a time when I didnt "get" Ornette Coleman. Keeping, or trying anyway to keep a relatively open mind is best.

[graypencil]

SDL:

well:

Eric Dolphy ..yes, no problem

Ornette ..still no problem

Schoenberg
George Crumb
Lotoslowski
Boulez
Ligheti
and a long list of other actual composers ..no problem at all

Glass ..well, I'll leave him to you with my compliments ..:)

[BFrank]

I found his music to "The Hours" unbearable. Partly because it was pushed too far up front in the soundtrack. Otherwise it was more of the same. Endlessly repeating scales played on electronic instruments (I think this has been mentioned already).

[graypencil]

Instant Philip Glass Generator:

Take the 5 white key notes on a piano ( CDEGA ) ..repeat in some form at the rate of 20 notes per second ..

add: ( after about a mid numbing half hour ..)

some permutation of the above ( say, AEGDC ) repeated in a different octave at the rate of, say 23 notes per second ..just a bit faster to gradually go out of phase with the first mind numbing thing ..creating a slow motion audio trainwreck ..

repeat the above ..with another permutation ..in another octave ..at 17 notes per second ..

add a long note bass drone that resembles an elk in rut ( slowed down ..)

over all this: adda soprano sax or out of tune soprano essaying something construed as a arioso melody ..

continue for two hours ( or as long as you can stand it ) :) :)

[Jimmy Cantiello]

I can see right through that guy...................

[Underhound]

"Knock knock"

"Who's there?"

"Knock knock"

"Who's there?"

"Knock knock"

"Who's there?"

"Knock knock"

"Who's there?"

"Knock knock"

"Who's there?"

"Phillip Glass"


http://home.attbi.com/~hardorange/html/glass.html

[Salvador Dali Lama]

hahahaha thats a good one Underhound.

I'm suprised so many of you dislike him so much. Have any of you heard Passages with Ravi Shankar, Glassworks, or the Mishima Soundtrack? Or even the score to Kundun, that was pretty nice too.

Theres a lot more going on in the music than one or two superficial listens will allow.

[frankpop1]

u can always tell when people havent heard glass, since none of his music ever repeats upon close listening. but yeah, i would 1st recommend 'einstein on the beach' as for lil peter big c(unt), never mind, he has no idea of music , let alone any idea of what a toothbrush is by his own admission. yak, dont breath my way!

[Sergio Zamora]

Originally posted by Pete C
Surely someone will pipe in and say the Einstein On The Beach is the greatest opera ever written.

That distinction goes to Trillium-R

[Salvador Dali Lama]

Originally posted by Sergio Zamora
That distinction goes to Trillium-R

totally.

[BFrank]

Found this in a Google search. A reference to Glass' appearance on "South Park". Kinda sums things up.

Announcer:
And now, South Park Elementary presents the Happy Non-Offensive, Non-Denominational Christmas Play, with music and lyrics by New York minimalist composer Philip Glass.
The children are in green leotards dancing about strangely.

Philip:
As I turn and look into the sun, the rays burn my eyes. (happy, happy, happy, everybody's happy). How like a turtle the sun looks....

Sheila:
What the hell is this?!?

Music:
(happy, happy, happy...)

Sheila:
This is horrible!

Priest:
This is the most god awful piece of crap I've ever seen!

[Tom Storer]

I like some Glass circa early 80's, I think "Glassworks" is what I'm thinking of. Haven't really gotten into him in a big way but I get the impression that he's way too prolific. And doing a David Bowie thing really killed his credibility in my eyes.

I saw him in concert doing that Glassworks kind of stuff. It was surprising - him on electronic keyboards on one side of the stage, another keyboardist at the other, violins, alto sax and vocalists in the middle, all playing that rapid-fire minimal-variation arpeggiation stuff very fast and at rock-concert volume. It was exciting due to the sheer speed and coordination and loudness.

[bluenoter]

Originally posted by frankpop1
as for lil peter big c(unt), never mind, he has no idea of music , let alone any idea of what a toothbrush is by his own admission. yak, dont breath my way!

What a charming, literate, mature guy you seem to be.

[Captain Hate]

Not to take issue with B Frank's taste, but I found Glass's music at the beginning of The Hours, when they were shifting from time-frame to time-frame, very effective.

[graypencil]

Originally posted by Captain Hate
Not to take issue with B Frank's taste, but I found Glass's music at the beginning of The Hours, when they were shifting from time-frame to time-frame, very effective.


Actually, in the hands of skilled film composers ( like Thomas Newman ) , the tools and methods of minimalsim are sometimes very effective.

Glass, OTOH, manages to consistently in a film context find ways to intrude on the scene ( whether by music volume.. or activity in relation to dialogue and/or scenic mood )

As somebody mentioned earler, Glass has ( whatever you think of his work ) managed to spread himself way too thin ..

He's sorta the Wynton Marsalis of art/classical film musc , IMO

[Fred K]

When it comes to the minimalists, I prefer John Adams and Michael Nyman to Phillip Glass, but I like a lot of what I've heard by Glass. The Mishima film score is very good. Glass also re-scored the original Bela Lugosi "Dracula" for the Kronos Qt. It's a beautiful piece of music that holds up well on it's own. The Kronos Qt. recorded Glass's string quartets (one is a reworking of the Mishima score) for Nonesuch that I would recommend. I'm a David Bowie fan and like the Low and Heroes Symphonies, but I'm not sure I would recommend them to non-Bowie fans. I'm not too familiar with the operas but I will get to them eventually.

[Sergio Zamora]

I dig the Dracula score too, Fred.

For a while, I had a yearning to really investigate Glass' work, but for whatever reason I lost interest over time, and I never did get too much of his stuff. I really haven't listened to any of his stuff in a while.

[john williams]

I think there are a few worthwhile Glass releases. For those who don't 'get it' try reading "Writings on Glass" by Richard Kostelanetz (ed) for some useful insight into the music. Some of the essays are quite critical but those who dismiss Glass's music as simplistic simply haven't listened properly. To compare him with Ligeti, Schoenberg etc is simply ludicrous. However, some criticism could be levelled at those guys for thier 'intellectual' approach to music which sometimes leaves little that is aesthetically pleasing to the ear. Having said that I own a few Ligeti CDs and like them immensely.

Kundun
String Quartets
Dracula
Akhnaten
Satyagraha
Einstein on the Beach (re-recorded version on Elektra/Nonesuch)
Koyaanisqatsi
Mishima
The Hours
Passages

Steer clear of Itaipu, any of the 'symphonies', Hydrogen Jukebox and North Star.

I also like John Adams, particularly the Violin Concerto, Shaker Loops, El Dorado, Death of Klinghoffer and Nixon in China.

[frankpop1]

salvy, u will find most of these critics have little heard his best. his best work lies in the days of 'einstein' & b4, but then go to 'koyanisqatsi' (did anyone mention 'koyanisqatsi'?)where he collaberated with wilson again . many critics agreed that this was the greatest film in history, despite the absence of dialogue and plot. the term post-modernists is sprinkled about often, yet this film is post-modernist.glass.

glass is a largely an exponent of coltrane's middle period. about all minimalists were listening to coltrane. listen to 'impressions' or 'chasin' the blues' -- it's glass. also glass had a profound influence on others. many favor reich or adams over glass, but w/o glass half of their material would not exist. their copping is almost embarrassing, but actually a testament to glass. even braxton wrote and dedicated a solo piece to glass, and where would his gtm be w/o glass.

i often refer to the film that concerns sculpturist di suvero, where the recording 'north star' evolved. another peverse enjoyment includes the collaberative work entitled 'liquid days.' my favorites included paul simon and suzanne vega. and songs sung by linda ronstandt and the roches worked best.

u dont have to have validation from these guys, salvy. most are captured by a blow out or catchy rhythym. they dont explore composition or subtleness. no, glass is neither repeats nor is he redundant. u hear his comp's move ever so slowly across then to where b4 u know it, he's zapping new territory. it's american music modern to ancient.

[graypencil]

Originally posted by JBW
Some of the essays are quite critical but those who dismiss Glass's music as simplistic simply haven't listened properly....... To compare him with Ligeti, Schoenberg etc is simply ludicrous......
I also like John Adams, particularly the Violin Concerto, Shaker Loops, El Dorado, Death of Klinghoffer and Nixon in China.


Somehow, I can't accept my ( or others herein) dimviewing of Glass , or my comparisons of him to other 20C composers as "ludicrous" .. in my case, I do have some background to back up my remarks about both Glass' so called music and the others that you so deem ..

If you like Glass ..fine ..its your ears and your sensibility and I dont brand your liking of his work as ludicrous .. however, for me and others, Glass is the Walter Kinkaide of Art music.

We do agree on John Adams , though ..

[Tom Storer]

Originally posted by frankpop1
glass is a largely an exponent of coltrane's middle period. about all minimalists were listening to coltrane. listen to 'impressions' or 'chasin' the blues' -- it's glass. also glass had a profound influence on others. many favor reich or adams over glass, but w/o glass half of their material would not exist. their copping is almost embarrassing, but actually a testament to glass. even braxton wrote and dedicated a solo piece to glass, and where would his gtm be w/o glass.


I can't claim to be an expert, but I was under the impression that Reich and Glass are more or less the same age, and were working simultaneously in similar areas, rather than one strongly influencing the other. Reich certainly sounds a lot different to me, not like "embarassing copping" of Glass.

[David Gitin]

Steve Reich's "Come Out" piece was written in '66, released in '67, if memory serves; Terry Riley's "In C" precedes both Reich and Glass.

[Pete C]

Is b4 a kind of organ?

[Other Steve]

Originally posted by David Gitin
Steve Reich's "Come Out" piece was written in '66, released in '67, if memory serves; Terry Riley's "In C" precedes both Reich and Glass.
True enough. And La Monte Young predates all of them. Tom, you're correct in assuming that Glass and Reich are about the same age, and in fact, early on they were regular collaborators and even appeared together on a recording of Reich's Four Organs. But there was some kind of major falling out between the two, to which Reich refers in his book... something about Glass not admitting to being influenced by Reich, or words to that effect.

For me, I found Glass absolutely thrilling from first listen: The Photographer, Glassworks, Mishima, Koyaaniqatsi and the first version of Einstein were all revelatory. I won't claim that Einstein is the greatest opera of the 20th century --that's still likely Wozzeck-- but it's without question one of the most important musical works of the latter half of the century. (Again, however, the work of Robert Ashley *has* to be seen as a stylistic antecedent in some way). Satyagraha is another lovely opera, and Akhnaten contains some truly powerful music, including the absolutely radiant "Hymn to the Aten," the single most beautiful thing Glass has ever penned.

That said, my interest in Glass has waned in subsequent years as he has increasingly turned towards a Romanticism in his scoring that ill suits his minimal sonic materials. I don't care for his symphonies, either the original ones or the Bowie adaptations, and several of the later operas were frankly still-born. (The Met's production of The Voyage is one of the very few performances I've ever walked out on during intermission.) And most of the solo piano music leaves me cold, like training arpeggios played with rubato.

Still, every now and then Glass proves he's got some inspiration left. The string quartets are uniformly strong. The soundtrack to Kundun did not impress me as much as it did many others, but the score for the third full-length Reggio film, Naqoyqatsi, is an elegant, varied piece and a tour de force for Yo-Yo Ma, not to mention far superior to the lackluster film itself. And the reviews of last year's opera Galileo were quite positive, causing me to regret having skipped it.

Far and away, though, my favorite recent Glass is Saxophone, issued last year on his own archival label, Orange Mountain Music (unavailable in most stores, but Amazon carries it and has sound clips online). The disc includes the original quartet-only version of his Concerto for Four Saxophones, far fresher and more engaging without the orchestra; Melodies for Saxophone, a collection of 13 miniatures suffused with a brisk, light Gallic charm (think Poulenc or Francaix); and The Windcatcher, a suite of earlier music re-sourced for saxophone trio. I can't remember any other recent Glass that has so captured my attention and affection.

Orange Mountain has quietly issued a handful of nice releases which are generally not available in stores, only via Amazon. The film score for Candyman is rote and unmemorable (though it was the discovery that bootleg copies were selling on eBay that led Glass's archivist Don Christensen to start OMM). But Descent Into the Maelstrom is a charged dance score from the mid '80s (roughly contemporary with The Photographer and certainly superior to 1,000 Airplanes on the Roof), and Early Voice is an absolute must for Glass fans, since it contains previously unissued music from Glass's pivotal years in the early '70s -- music that marked his transition from the austerity of his earliest music to the mindblowing advance of Einstein. The label will soon reissue Glass's fine film score for Errol Morris's The Thin Blue Line, improving on the original Nonesuch version by scrapping the dialogue and adding more music instead.

Underhound, the "knock-knock" joke and web link are both quite good, but better still was an essay that appeared in the American Spectator sometime in the early '90s: "Philip Glass, Minimalist Cab Driver." I dearly wish I could find it online somewhere to share; it was a howl for fans and foes alike (much like the South Park cameo, in fact). One of the funniest sections had him picking up an elderly woman in midtown Manhattan. He drove to a corner, took a right, drove to the next corner, took a right, drove to the next corner, took a right, drove to the next corner, took a right, and so on. Finally, the frustrated fare confronted him: "Young man, you're simply driving around the same block over and over again."

"Madam," came the reply, "I prefer to think of it as a fugue."

[frankpop1]

i never said that glass was the only or 1st minimalist. i just stated that he was the strong influence and i was pointing to the late 60s into the 70s. i am always confused by the anger glass suffers here, but reich and adams evade. yet they are so similar.

i think my writing perused in fuller context gives a sweeter gist to other minimalists tho, with a wink. and yea, i agree lamonte was always the guru of minimalists. but fuckit so many of u guys grind into needless criticism and details. such bores.

turn in an application to downbeat, there is always room for another worthless pseudo erudite. dont b like the big c... and hang here 14 hours a day, while posting 8 times on every thread. and 390 posts a week. we dont need to know what u ate and when you shit. u can start an audio mag or something on the web. it's all about vibrations and ur missing them here. so go hear! buy 'einstein'!

[Salvador Dali Lama]

I just heard some of music in 12 parts and descent into the maelstrom. I'm blown away. detractors be damned, this is incredible music.

[jazzy mary]

Gotta go with Graypencil on this one. And Jimmy and Underground:LOL!!!! The first time I heard Glass was in Houston about 18 years ago. I was excited because I had heard so much about his music. I was like "What! Huh?" "This cat has pulled on over on the public". I haven't changed my mind, although my mind is always open. I thought his soundtrack for "The Hours" was waaay too intrusive!

[jazzy mary]

Uh, what is frankpop1's problem? If you don't like Pete's posts, don't read him. Most of us find him interesting, funny, intelligent and literate, however and do enjoy his posts. Your vulgarity is gross.

In re: John Adams. I saw ABT's "Hereafter" last weekend at the Met. The choreography was so-so, but John Adams' "Harmoniumm" was fantastic. They had the New York City Choral Group (probably 150 people) on stage singing and it was exquisitely beautiful! The second act was to Carl Orff's music and they had threee utterly magnificent soloists singing. It was soul-stirring. They also had my favorite prima ballerina, Paloma Herrer, dancing! I just adore her. I could be president of her fan club!

[Dr Dave]

I'M A MINERALIST

Lyrics/Music: Carla Bley

Here's a shocking revelation for you voyeurs
Such a heinous deviation, there are no cures
I'm a Mineralist, I'm a Mineralist

Just the thought of ironing gives me spasms of lust
I creep up to old wrecked cars and lick off the rust
I'm a Mineralist, I'm a Mineralist

Mother used to try to metal in my affairs
Keep your nose up off that grindstone, people will stare
Get the lead out of your pants and change your underwear

I've been stealing baby bottles since I was born
I'll go blind from balling bearings, doctors have warned
I like making out with steel-rimmed glasses more than horned

Erik Satie gets my rocks off, Cage is a dream
Philip Glass is Mineralist to the extreme

I like tickling ivories and fingering stones
When my mercury goes up I play with my bone

People take for granite my perversion is wrong
I'm not harming anyone by beating my gong
I'm a Mineralist, I'm a Mineralist

I'll make love to minerals as long as I can
And in fifty years I'll be a jaded old man
I'm a Mineralist, I'm a Mineralist
I'm a Mineralist, I'm a Mineralist

This song appeared on "Nick Mason's Fictitious Sports," a truly wonderful Carla Bley album, despite Mason's listing as leader (Pink Floyd status outsells jazz status, I guess)
Lyrics Copyright: Alrac Music 1980

[Pete C]

Glass is a lot like Wynton Marsalis in the respect that a lot of people love him (some to the point of thinking he's the greatest thing since sliced bread), a lot of people hate him, and a lot of the people who love him take any criticism of the artist personally.

[Salvador Dali Lama]

Thats a pretty good point Pete. I personally don't mind if someone absolutely loathes the man and his music. Doesnt bother me a bit.

The thing I can't understand though, is how anyone can call glass' music simple. This shows that one hasn't done much listening. Its a pretty common criticism. For some reason I think a lot of people just hate Glass, and it doesnt have a whole hell of a lot to do with the music. Which is funny, because unlike Wynton he hasnt set out to shit on other people or done anything to really isolate himself. Maybe its the "IN" thing amongst the hip music fans to diss glass? Y'know, the type of folk who can say "post modern" with a straight face.

Like I said, it doenst bother me if someone doesnt like him or his music. But I'd like to see people (and this of course doesnt apply to everyone who doesnt like him) at least give the music a chance to stand on its own.

And this idea that he ripped Steve Recih off, for crying out loud, so what if he DID? do you have any idea how many of "the greats" totally stole things, whole styles included, from their contemporaries???? Try ALL of them.

Filter out all the bullshit and let the music speak for itself. thats all I ask.

[Pete C]

I wouldn't call his music simple or simplistic. But to me most of it is banal, which is a very different thing. Some of my favorite music is simple, and some of the most complex music is banal.

[walto]

Originally posted by David Gitin
Steve Reich's "Come Out" piece was written in '66, released in '67, if memory serves; Terry Riley's "In C" precedes both Reich and Glass.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then Steve S. says:

"True enough. And La Monte Young predates all of them. "

I heard a pretty amazing Riley piece from 1963 on the radio the other day. It was a very strange ("advanced" even) remix of Chet Baker called something like "The Gift" or "The Miracle". I couldn't believe the date. It used repetition, sort of in the manner of "John Somebody" but I think it was cooler because it wasn't so unidirectional--instead of getting thicker and thicker as it develops, it moves back and forth between Baker's cool bop and these psychedelic rushes of cacophony. Excellent. I had no idea Riley was into that sort of thing so early. How old can he have been in '63?

[Brian Olewnick]

Walt, Organ of Corti has released a couple of early Riley records and they're pretty astounding. The one you mentioned, "Music for the Gift-Bird of Paradise-Mescalin Mix" contains pieces from the early 60's that, though raw, are amazingly anticipatory of much ambient and "illbient" work. The rawness actually works to their advantage, imho, leavening out the slickness that would infect some of his later work.

Even more remarkable is his "You're No Good", a tape loop piece from 1967 that's to a degree modelled after Reich's 'Come Out' and 'It's Gonna Rain', but uses as its source a funk-soul number (I believe written by Riley and performed by some Philly outfit). It's totally raw and "awkward", with brutal splices, channels dropping out entirely, etc., but it's magnificent. This is a 2-disc release that also includes a live performance of Poppy Nogood from '67 that's the equal, if not better, than the one that appeared on "Rainbow".

All of this stuff makes it more the pity the direction he's taken in recent decades. Trust me, if you find his recent work way too fluffy and it's all you know of him, you won't believe it's the same guy.

[Pete C]

As I mentioned recently to Brian, I saw Riley recently with a tenor player and a sitar player. Cloying new-agey stuff. And it was preceded by something completely different--less annoying but generally unsuccessful, IMO, Maybe Monday, the trio of Fred Frith, Larry Ochs & Miya Masaoka.