Don DeLillo

[Alex]

What the hell. Didn't just want to put him on the "reading" thread. The greatest living American writer (IMHO, BWDFDIK?) deserves his own thread.

I've read:

Running Dog
Players
White Noise
Mao II
Underworld
and Amazons, written under the pseudonym Cleo Birdwell.

Now I see he's got a new novel out. Anyone read it yet, or 'm I gonna have to be the first (yeah right, as if I need to see a review before I rush out and buy it)?

[Brian Olewnick]

Alex, read 'Libra'

The new one ("Cosmopolis") got a pretty bad review in the NYT this past week. I think it was Kakatuni, in whom I don't put very much stock, but I have to say that here descriptions of the book don't exactly whet my appetite. I expect there'll be another one in the Sunday Book Review tomorrow.

[achilles]

Yes, I'm near you on him being the boss of all bosses in American writing.

and Libra is his best, maybe the best novel of the last 25 years.
White Noise is also amazing. There's nothing I don't like about him.

I read the new one in a galley form two months ago--it's not up to his best, nowhere near it, but it's still better than 95% of most
literary fiction. Its the book Jay McInerney would have written if only he were talented, funny, and smart.

To me, DeLillo's intelligence and verbal ingenuity is of Nabokovian heights.

[Monte Smith]

I'm afraid I can't follow you guys on this one. I find DeLillo's wordplay to be far more obvious than Nabokov and often kind of embarrassing, almost a little adolescent. As per yoosh, MHO.

I came at him via cajoling from a good friend of mine, a big DeLillo fan. He was astonished I hadn't read this master of American fiction and told me I had to read him and I had to start with End Zone. Well, I read that and found it abominable. Sub-Catcher in the Rye. I read some other things--I'm always ready to give a guy a second and a third and even a fourth shot--but no go for me. I never got more than twenty pages into the big important works. Underworld sits on my shelf here blamelessly uncreased and unread. The Body Artist from last year or the year before I did get thru, but that was just from morbid fascination with the author's navel-gazing and lack of any real seriousness.

I did like one play: Valparaiso. Maybe I am more comfortable with DeLillo's sense of quiet, hysterical melodrama in, well, drama.

[tristano's ghost]

I'm not sure how you follow up a book like UNDERWORLD. It read to me like a culmination of DeLillo's career. For anybody who's interested but doesn't want to wade through all of it, read just the opening chapter, which was published in Harper's as "Pafko at the Wall." A brilliant panoramic recreation of the 1951 Giants-Dodgers playoff game.

[Jason Bivins]

I think I've opined about Delillo on JC before, but one more time can't hurt. I consider him to be mega-talented but hugely, hugely inconsistent. Like Monte, I'm not blown away by his wit or even the craft of his writing. I can easily think of a dozen currently living Americans who I consider better pure writers. What's always distinguished Delillo, in my opinion, is his willingness to take on The Big Idea in an age when many writers seem averse to this. I've read all but 1 or 2 of his books. While they all contain marvelous passages, I generally think that the majority of them buckle under the weight of The Big Idea (Ratner's Star and The Names certainly do, imho). And Underworld was a classic case of this - a staggeringly good prologue and 700+ pages of so-so late 20th century rambling. I nonetheless hold him in quite high regard - and the quality of his "hits" keeps me reading him, despite the regularity of his "misses."

BWTHDIK.

[Nate Dorward]

Yes, White Noise is a good place to start. Not exactly a subtle book, but it ain't boring. -- I suppose the problem with DeLillo is that if you actually think in terms of phrases like "The greatest living American writer" then, sure, he'd be a contender for the accolade--indeed, it's clear enough from his fiction his readiness to contend for the title. If you think such phrases are pretty hollow & have a disagreeable tang of macho egotism, on the other hand.......

[Gary Sisco]

I loved "Libra."

I liked "White Noise."

I absolutely loved "Underworld," which also, in Nick, had the character I've most identified with on a personal level in any novel of many years. His last section in the book, a kind of narrated interior monologue, toward the end, had me choked up for real. Wonderful.

I tried reading the one about the rock and roll star but only got a chapter or two into it. Wasn't doing it for me. I'll go back to it someday.

[Jason Bivins]

Funny. "Libra" is, along with "The Satanic Verses," the book I've started (but not finished) the most times. So many people whose opinions I respect dig the hell out of "Libra" so I've just got to make it through one of these days.

[lazarus]

I loved Underworld very much.
It´s the only book I have read by DeLillo so far but I´m gonna check out some more.

[al j]

I loved everything about White Noise but the infrequent "wit overkill." Nothing drastic, but on one or two occasions it seemed unnecessary. That didn't keep me from thoroughly enjoying the characters, the way he develops the story and the twists. It is THE book that made me want to read everything by DeLillo.

Libra is an amazing book. I first read it on a submarine patrol where, when I wasn't on watch, I had nothing better to do than absorb myself in a book. It was perfect. It now defines my image of Lee Harvey Oswald, aside from that cool punk band he was in, of course.

Underworld I just couldn't get with. I thought it to be tiresome and overdeveloped on the same level of Atlas Shrugged, but with much better prose and dialogue. But as I said in the other thread, the prologue is brilliant.

Running Dog is another favorite.

[al j]

Speaking of White Noise, there used to be a website called "White Noise on White Noise" or something, that was nothing more than a journey through some random quotes from the book. The website hyperlinked to various places in the web from within those quotes, pointing to the book's unique perspective on pop culture and the robotics of big industry. I wish I could find it.

[achilles]

I have no problems with "this greatest stuff" as it's always
subject to change and thus makes my obsession with reading
all the more fun.

To me, Libra is his finest because it's the one book in which he develops characters as strongly as he develops ideas. The voice of Lee Harvey Oswald's mother, testifying to history, haunts me still to this day.

[alankin]

Originally posted by Joe Christmas
Speaking of White Noise, there used to be a website called "White Noise on White Noise" or something, that was nothing more than a journey through some random quotes from the book. The website hyperlinked to various places in the web from within those quotes, pointing to the book's unique perspective on pop culture and the robotics of big industry. I wish I could find it.

here ==> http://www.theobvious.com/noise/ (White Noise on White Noise)

[Gary Sisco]

I thought at the time that it was a brave thing for an American writer to go at Lee Harvey Oswald from his perspective, so that's why I bought it, not knowing anything else about him at the time. Excellent. I plowed right through it.

Adam -- Clearly, given my remarks about "Nick" in "Underworld," I'd disagree with you re character development.

[al j]

thanks, Alan

[achilles]

gary, i love Underworld too, and you're right about the Nick character which is the closest thing to autobiography DeLillo's written. But other than than the freeway killer, I'm not sure the rest of the characters in that book are well developed. In Libra, they all seem like real people to me.

[Joe Milazzo]

AMERICANA, anyone? OR GREAT JONES STREET?


For a long time, DeLillo was an author with no public profile. (One reason UNDERWORLD broke out the way it did was that DeLillo actually performed publicity for the work.) If you can get your hands on a rare interview he granted in the early 1980's to the authors of ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN -- Tom LeClair and Larry McCaffery -- by all means read it.

Perhaps this explains why I think DeLillo is at his best when he writes about media America, its distortions and disruptions and outright violence -- psychological and physical. I think it also explains why his books resonate so much with many people... but its a resonance I don't quite always hear or understand. For me, when DeLillo aims at profundity, as in THE NAMES, his prose dulls considerably, taking on a strange combination of glibness and obliquity.

Then again, he is a writer who delights in developing ideas for the sake of their obscuration.

[james harrigan]

I've only read Mao II, and was underwhelmed. A good book, but hardly a masterpiece, and I didn't find the writing style all that compelling. I'm sure I'll check out some more of his work, though, if for no other reason than I want to try to understand what the big deal is.

John Updike pans the new one in The New Yorker - it sounds pretty dreadful. Interestingly, it is dedicated to Paul Auster, another amazingly talented but inconsistent contemporary author, all of whose books (except Timbuktu) I have devoured. Auster's latest, The Book of Illusions, is excellent.

[Root Doctor]

There's also a very negative review of DeLillo's latest in the current issue of the NY Observer.

While I like several novels of his a great deal (White Noise tops my list), I find him to be pretty inconsistent. I can't say that I find him to be either a memorable stylist or a great wit.

Ishmael Reed, anyone?

[Joe Milazzo]

Originally posted by Root Doctor


Ishmael Reed, anyone?

MUMBO JUMBO is brilliant -- "Jes Grew" -- but I haven't read much that he's written since.

[Root Doctor]

There's also a very negative review of DeLillo's latest in the current issue of the NY Observer.

While I like several novels of his a great deal (White Noise tops my list), I find him to be pretty inconsistent. I can't say that I find him to be either a memorable stylist or a great wit.

Ishmael Reed, anyone?

[Monte Smith]

I really enjoyed MUMBO JUMBO--so much so that I called up Ishmael Reed to thank him for writing it. Should have calmed down a little before the call, as I must have come off as some kind of an enthusiast. The rest of his books, eh, not so good. Not half as imaginative, funny, historical, and subversive. I like to compare MUMBO JUMBO to a hoodoo race riot fought with cream pies.

[Brian Olewnick]

I think the only Reed I've read is 'Reckless Eyeballing', though there might have been a couple more. Long enough ago to forget my exact response. In any case, I thought I'd take the opportunity to highly recommend the two discs by the band known as Conjure on American Clave which use Reed texts to largely great effect ("Conjure" & "Cab Calloway Stands in for the Moon"). Primo work from Lester Bowie, Olu Dara, Jayne Cortez, Allen Toussaint, Bobby Womack (!), David Murray and others.

[Monte Smith]

That's right, Brian. I love the track "My Brothers" on CAB CALLOWAY STANDS IN FOR THE MOON. Can't recall the exact poetry, but something along the lines of: "They come up here, drink my liquor, talk loud, signifyin' bout what's dear to me, my brothers."

[Brian Olewnick]

In a just world, "I'm Running for the Office of Love" would've been a #1 pop hit.

[achilles]

I can understand people not digging what DeLillo goes for in his books. But when people say they can't see the beauty of his style, the absolutely amazing power of his prose, I'm STUNNED!

from MAO II:

That night they sat together on the sofa and with the TV juxtaposed against the conversation. They talked and watched Then they saw what was on and listened to the voice that spoke behind the images.

It was the death of Khomeini.

It was the death of the Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini lying in a glass case set on a high platform above crowds that stretched for miles. The camera could not absorb the full breadth of the crowd. The camera kept panning but could not inch all the way out to the edge of the anguished mass. On screen the crowd had no edge or limit and kept on spreading.

The voice said, Crowds estimated, and the picture showed the crowds of mourners and Karen could go backwards into their lives, see them coming out of their houses and shanties, streams of people, then backwards even further, sleeping in their beds, hearing the morning call to prayer, coming out of their houses and meeting in some dusty square to march out of the slums together.

The voice said, Weeping chanting mourners.

There were mourning banners in the streets. Great photographs of Khomeini hung from building walls and many people in the crowd beat themselves on the head and chest.

The voice said, Rivers of humanity......

[Other Steve]

Originally posted by achilles
To me, Libra is his finest because it's the one book in which he develops characters as strongly as he develops ideas. The voice of Lee Harvey Oswald's mother, testifying to history, haunts me still to this day.
Bingo. This was where I started with DeLillo, and the reason that I have continued, more or less. Majestic and memorable in the extreme.

I very much liked Underworld (and as noted, the first chapter is incandescent). I liked White Noise, though perhaps not nearly so much as I was led by experts to believe that I should. (It's on a short list of things that I want to re-read, however). Ratner's Star, on the other hand, was one tedious slog, one that I still have a hard time believing I made it through. And I found Americana contrived and unpleasant, but gave DeLillo the benefit of the doubt since it was his first.

I've considered picking up the new one, bad reviews or no, but (he says gingerly, wanting to avoid crossing the line into one of the political threads) I have to admit that I've felt absolutely no inclination to read any fiction so far this year. Real life seems a bit too fantastic, so I've continued boning up on Middle Eastern history and politics. (There was an incredibly lovely short story by Murakami in a recent New Yorker for which I made an exception.)

NR - Peter Mansfield, A History of the Middle East

[Gary Sisco]

"Great Jones Street" is the one I started but couldn't get into. I'll have another go at it sometime.

Too bad he didn't use the tv scene of the crowd pulling the Ayatollah out of his coffin by the legs. Remember that shit? Some of the strangest-ever television viewing, right there. Jayzuss.

[Monte Smith]

That was awesome TV. Wish I had the DVD.

[achilles]

the scene actually goes on to include that....

[Troy D]

Originally posted by achilles
I can understand people not digging what DeLillo goes for in his books. But when people say they can't see the beauty of his style, the absolutely amazing power of his prose, I'm STUNNED!

from MAO II:

That night they sat together on the sofa and with the TV juxtaposed against the conversation. They talked and watched Then they saw what was on and listened to the voice that spoke behind the images.

It was the death of Khomeini.

It was the death of the Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini lying in a glass case set on a high platform above crowds that stretched for miles. The camera could not absorb the full breadth of the crowd. The camera kept panning but could not inch all the way out to the edge of the anguished mass. On screen the crowd had no edge or limit and kept on spreading.

The voice said, Crowds estimated, and the picture showed the crowds of mourners and Karen could go backwards into their lives, see them coming out of their houses and shanties, streams of people, then backwards even further, sleeping in their beds, hearing the morning call to prayer, coming out of their houses and meeting in some dusty square to march out of the slums together.

The voice said, Weeping chanting mourners.

There were mourning banners in the streets. Great photographs of Khomeini hung from building walls and many people in the crowd beat themselves on the head and chest.

The voice said, Rivers of humanity......


Absolutely, achilles. I too can understand why some don't care for DeLillo; he's sometimes inconsistent, and not all of his stuff hits the mark. But when he's good, he's brilliant. There are wonderful moments throughout Mao II in particular. The opening of the book, where he describes the Moonies' mass wedding ceremony in Yankee Stadium, is breathtaking. I've re-read that scene a lot, and got to hear it again when DeLillo came to do a reading at Duke a while back. It's amazing stuff, just as powerful as the opening baseball scene in Underworld, as has been mentioned.

[achilles]

Troy,
yeah! that opening with the mass wedding in Yankee stadium,
what an opening! Libra also begins beautifully with Lee Harvey riding the subway.....

DeLillo must have come to Duke because of his friendship with Frank Lentriccia, no?

[Troy D]

Originally posted by achilles
Troy,
yeah! that opening with the mass wedding in Yankee stadium,
what an opening! Libra also begins beautifully with Lee Harvey riding the subway.....

DeLillo must have come to Duke because of his friendship with Frank Lentriccia, no?

That's a possibility, although Lentriccia didn't introduce him--he was introduced by a semi-worshipful grad student who was doing her dissertation on him. It was around the time The Body Artist came out, I believe.

DeLillo was just as I imagined he would be--self-effacing, slightly withdrawn. Not a very imposing figure, to say the least. Plus he read in a very dry monotone. He captivated the room, nevertheless. (I guess when you're reading stuff this good, one's delivery matters very little.)

[walto]

This comes as real news to me: Achilles getting along so nicely with Troy. I guess both the Hector and Patroclus incidents have been long forgotten now, eh? Forgive and forget. That's cool.

[Other Steve]

Originally posted by walto
This comes as real news to me: Achilles getting along so nicely with Troy. I guess both the Hector and Patroclus incidents have been long forgotten now, eh? Forgive and forget. That's cool.
LOL!!!

[achilles]

It's all water under the bridge--but I'm still pissed
at Agnemenon for stealing my concubine.

[Troy D]

This is all Greek to me.


Sorry--had to say it. :p