EMusic

[Pete C]

Charles Brown is in the house!

A 5-disc JSP set has just arrived: The Classic Earliest Recordings (1944-50).

[Tom Storer]

Pete, you beat me to it! I had planned to start exactly this thread this morning, specifically to recommend the Charles Brown box.

Two great minds with but a single thought...

[BFrank]

Just found a really nice big band album.

Eddie "Lockjaw" Davis - Trane Whistle
It's only about 33 minutes, but it's very well produced and has some nice tunes.

A lot of big-time names on it, too. Eric Dolphy, Melba Liston, Oliver Nelson, Clark Terry & Roy Haynes to name a few. I don't think they necessarily have solos, but it's an impressive lineup.

[Pete C]

Not only that, some of the charts are by Oliver Nelson, and it has the original recording, before the famous one, of "Stolen Moments," titled "The Stolen Moment."

[bluenoter]

Just FYI, Trane Whistle is one of the albums in the Eric Dolphy on Prestige box.

[steve(thelil)]

Baidika Carroll: Marionettes on a High Wire. Hip Mid-Late-Milesish stuff.

Dave Ellis. Good young post-bop former Charlie Hunter associate.


The 88. "Kind of Light". Sound just like the Kinks

[BFrank]

Haven't listened to it yet, but they just added Ron Horton's "Genius Envy" on Omnitone. Should be good.

[steve(thelil)]

This thread can be an important resource. Let's work it.

Thank you.

Frank Strozier: Fabulous Frank Strozier

The altoist's quintet consists of Miles Davis' rhythm section of the time (pianist Wynton Kelly, bassist Paul Chambers, and drummer Jimmy Cobb), along with the late, great trumpeter Booker Little. The music, mostly comprised of Strozier originals, is advanced hard bop, and the music is both enjoyable and (due to Little's presence) somewhat historic. [The 1993 reissue appends five more songs than the original release: "Lucka Dance," "Run," "Tibbit," "Just in Time," and a different take of "Off Shore."] -- Scott Yanow

Frank Wess Tryin' To Make My Blues Turn Green

Avishai Cohen Colors: Besides being a hip bass player, one of the finest young writers around, already with a distinctive sound.


Cedar Walton Latin Tinge: One of the many actualy RECENT recordings on High Note label. Up to CW's high standard.

Larry Coryell Cedars Of Avalon: Another fairly recent High Note release. Best straight ahead Larry ever. Also features Cedar Walton.

[Uli]

You cats are makin me salivating. I am gonna try it again.

My first attempst were kinda freakish. I was really gung ho on all the stuff they have. Wanted to first download all the Gene Ammons'. A lot of stuff I once had but it got stolen. I sucessfully was downloading the first but hadn't burnt it yet. Next day or so I wanna go on and see my list and where I could find it. The system told me that my account could not be tracked because of invalid e-mail address. So I make sure that I cancel out of the free trial. and i thought I may take it up again later. Next thing I get is debits to my credit card. It took a very involed exchange of e-mails. They told me that they could not trace my cancellation because they could not trace my account because of an invalid e-mail address. I told them that I already knew that but thought they were kinda too greedingly billing me for an account they couldn't trace because of an invalid e-mail address.

any way, the vaults are incredible.

[Tanager]

Originally posted by steve(thelil)
Cedar Walton Latin Tinge: One of the many actualy RECENT recordings on High Note label. Up to CW's high standard.

Larry Coryell Cedars Of Avalon: Another fairly recent High Note release. Best straight ahead Larry ever. Also features Cedar Walton.

Both of these are outstanding. I second the recommendation of the Coryell side (which features Walton, BTW) in particular.

One of my absolute emusic download faves are vols. 2 & 3 of the Woody Shaw live disks. And, although I've pushed it before, lemme just say that more folks should go d/l the Ricky Skaggs sides.

[BFrank]

Just started a long project of downloading Bill Evans' "Consecration" and "Last Waltz" sets. This really seems to be Bill at this best (also his last).

[Noj]

A few of my favorites:

Sonny Criss UP, UP, & AWAY and SATURDAY MORNING
Modern Jazz Quartet DJANGO
Joe Pass VIRTUOSO
Charles Earland LEAVING THIS PLANET
Baden Powell GUITAR ARTISTRY OF...
Cannonball Adderley PYRAMID
Hampton Hawes NORTHERN WINDOWS PLUS
Nat Adderley WORK SONG
Woody Shaw BLACKSTONE LEGACY
Ivan Boogaloo Joe Jones SWEETBACK

non-jazz:
Pete Namlook AIR albums
Desmond Williams DELIGHTS OF THE GARDEN
Johnny Guitar Watson LONE RANGER
Syl Johnson CHICAGO TWINIGHT SOUL

[steve(thelil)]

Another big 2 thumbs WAAAYYY up for Ron Horton's Genius Envy.

All of the 8 Teddy Edwards discs

Really Big! by Jimmy Heath

Smack Up by Art Pepper

[BFrank]

Originally posted by steve(thelil)
Another big 2 thumbs WAAAYYY up for Ron Horton's Genius Envy.

All of the 8 Teddy Edwards discs

Really Big! by Jimmy Heath


And yet another THREE thumbs for "Really Big!" - not to mention "Swamp Seed".

Teddy Edwards for sure. Specifically "Together Again" w/Howard McGhee.

Harold Land, too! "Eastward Ho!" and "The Fox"

[Pete C]

JSP Blind Blake & Blind Willie McTell sets have recently arrived.

[Tanager]

Recently, I've checked out and dug the following from emusic:

Toshiko Akiyoshi - Interlude
Paul Bley - Closer
Joanne Brackeen - Take a Chance

All outstanding disks.

[Pete C]

King Bennie Nawahi, Hawaiian String Virtuoso

*****

!!!!!

[steve(thelil)]

There's Shuggie Otis disc "In Session, Great Rhythm and Blues", that sounds like it would suck, but I enjoyed it. He re-recorded great OLD R&B hits, using the original vocalists. I'm not enuf of an expert to guess after one listen whether they are original arrangements, but they sounded "right" regardless.

[Gary Sisco]

Cool, Pete. I need some more Blind Willie. Don't have any on CD.

[BFrank]

Recently stumbled upon Bobby Timmons' "Workin' Out". This is 2 sessions on one "disk" and the second set is a killer date with Wayne Shorter, Ron Carter and Jimmy Cobb from Jan 20, 1966.

[Dicky]

Between downloading the entire Fantasy catalog (Specialty Records included) I wholeheartedly recommend everyone investigate a few jazz oriented discs outside the traditional canon. Here's some starters:

Getachew Mekurya - Ethiopiques 14 - Negus Of Ethiopian Sax

Otherwordly and utterly infectious with a decisive Ayler tinge. Unlike anyhing you've ever heard before.

The Skatalites Meet King Tubby - The Legendary Skatalites In Dub

For the uninitiated, King Tubby was an engineer and the quasi-inventor of dub. His approach to arranging sound is not unlike Basie's use of dynamics within a big band setting. This is a mid '70's incarnation of the Skatalites featuring some serious musicians - Roland Alphonso, Tommy McCook and Ernest Ranglin. Though not readily available on emuisc, Jamican ska (easily found on Heartbeat Records) is instantly appreciable by anyone with an ear for jazz chops. As an aside, original Skatalite Don Drummond was cited by Sarah Vaughn as her favorite trombonist.

Dave Tarras - Yiddish-American Klezmer Music - 1925-1956

Not as consistently superb as the above selections but when this is good it's very good. The first few tracks in particular blur the line between Yiddish music and Ellington's "Jungle" music.

Enjoy.

[gdogus]

Originally posted by BFrank
Just started a long project of downloading Bill Evans' "Consecration" and "Last Waltz" sets. This really seems to be Bill at this best (also his last). I second that emotion, though I've downloaded "only" Consecration (8 discs). Hey, BFrank - is The Last Waltz a significantly different proposition, or more of the same? Don't misunderstand me - more of the same is more of an amazing, enthralling thing - but is there something especially compelling here that Consecration doesn't offer?

And yes, let's keep this thread going as a resource. I've been digging Art Pepper's Thursday Night, Friday Night, and Saturday Night at the Village Vanguard. I chose to download these over the 9-disc Complete Village Vanguard Sessions because the latter is available only in 128k .mp3s ...

[BFrank]

Well, gdogus, I guess it's "more of the same" in that the Last Waltz is from the same series of shows at the Keystone Korner. I believe the way it goes is that "Consecration" is all of the first sets from that week, and "Last Waltz" is all of the second sets.

[gdogus]

Thanks, BFrank - The Last Waltz, with its second sets, does seem to offer a greater variety of songs than Consecration. One has greater breadth, the other greater depth. Maybe?

Another recommendation: if you haven't got them, grab Art Tatum's Complete Pablo Group Masterpieces (8 discs). I'm especially fond of Volumes 1 (with Benny Carter), 2 (W/Roy Eldridge), 7 (w/Buddy DeFranco), and 8 (w/Ben Webster).

And then there are Tatum's Complete Pablo Solo Masterpieces (also 8 discs)...

[Pete C]

Originally posted by gdogus
I've been digging Art Pepper's Thursday Night, Friday Night, and Saturday Night at the Village Vanguard. I chose to download these over the 9-disc Complete Village Vanguard Sessions because the latter is available only in 128k .mp3s ...

There's some great stuff on The Hollywood All Stars Sessions.

[BFrank]

Don't think I can deal with all those Art Tatum sets right now. I should do it, though. Classic stuff.

I was reminded of "Fantastic Frank Strozier" on the EMusic BB. Definitely one to download - with Wynton Kelly, Jimmy Cobb, Booker Little, Paul Chambers and others, it's a hard one to pass up.

[Pete C]

The Tatum/Webster is essential, even for someone like me who doesn't much care for Tatum.

[Noj]

Tonight I've got King Tubby/Skatalites and cued up King Tubby/Lee Perry for good measure.

Then I've got Bobby Timmons Workin' Out and Jimmy Heath's Really Big! and Swamp Seed as the jazz must always be steadily flowing in...highly rated on AMG as well, I'm expecting the best.

I've already listened to some of the King Tubby/Skatalites, and it is exactly the kind of reggae I love. I will not hesitate to buy this one.

Thanks for the recommendations everybody.

Some more of my favorites:
Lee Morgan Expoobident
Legends Of Acid Jazz Prestige series
Ubiquity funk compilations

[Tanager]

Noj, both those Jimmy Heath disks are excellent. You're gonna dig 'em, I think. There are also some excellent Kenny Dorham disks on eMusic, well worth downloading and definitely the equal of much of his Blue Note work, among those Blue Spring and Jazz Contrasts are particulary good.

[Pete C]

Anybody who is unfmailiar with pianist Walter Norris should download his Concord albums pronto. Not that anybody is familiar with him shouldn't.

[gdogus]

Sonny Stitt's Goin' Down Slow is good, good stuff.

[gdogus]

Originally posted by Tanager
One of my absolute emusic download faves are vols. 2 & 3 of the Woody Shaw live disks. Thanks for the tip, Tanager. I downloaded these last night, and they are indeed outstanding. Now if they only had Volume 1 available...

[frankpop1]

i agree that the woody shaw music is outstanding also . i think that the shaw and the tippett downloads are two of the best at emusic. this music is in the class of even some of the best monk and evans music available at emusic.

[Noj]

Originally posted by Tanager
Noj, both those Jimmy Heath disks are excellent. You're gonna dig 'em, I think. There are also some excellent Kenny Dorham disks on eMusic, well worth downloading and definitely the equal of much of his Blue Note work, among those Blue Spring and Jazz Contrasts are particulary good.

You were right on the money Tanager! Awesome music. Now on to those Dorham albums...

I'll add to the recommendation of the live Woody Shaw joints--great stuff.

[Tanager]

Another great disk is Cannonball Adderley's Nippon Soul this is from the brief period during which Yusef Lateef was in the band. Great stuff.

[Tanager]

While I'm at it, one of the first disks I ever grabbed off of emusic, and still one of my favorites, is Gerry Mulligan's Gene Norman Presents The Original Gerry Mulligan Tentet and Quartet. Wonderful stuff. I love Gerry Mulligan.

[gdogus]

Originally posted by Tanager
While I'm at it, one of the first disks I ever grabbed off of emusic, and still one of my favorites, is Gerry Mulligan's Gene Norman Presents The Original Gerry Mulligan Tentet and Quartet. Wonderful stuff. I love Gerry Mulligan. Yes, I snapped that one up a few weeks ago myself and have enjoyed it quite a lot.
A couple of more recommendations for you all: Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers - Coast to Coast (2 discs)
This live set features a mid 1980s edition of JM with Terence Blanchard and Mulgrew Miller, recorded in New York (at Mikell's, I think) and San Francisco (Kimball's). This is actually one of my favorite Blakey albums ever.

Bill Evans and Eddie Gomez - Intuition
A simply beautiful piano/bass duet album. Often over-looked and under-rated, I think.

[BFrank]

How about Cannonball's "What Is This Thing Called Soul" and "Jazz at the Philharmonic"?
Another couple of s m o k i n' live dates.

[Tanager]

Originally posted by BFrank
How about Cannonball's "What Is This Thing Called Soul" and "Jazz at the Philharmonic"?
Another couple of s m o k i n' live dates.

There are a TON of great live Cannonball dates to be d/l'ed.

[Gary Delligatti]

Don't know if you guys would be interested or not, but E-Music's got some good 'ol funk bands from the 80's, some of which have some pretty good brass with them, IE Tower of Power, the Kool & the Gang disc is very good as is the Ohio Players. Also, IMHO, Harry "Sweet" Edison's , Edison's Lights is a must have

GaryD

[steve(thelil)]

Gary: Has anyone ever nicknamed you Babagooey?



(Gary Dell'Abate on Howard Stern is Bababooey, so Gary Dellagatti would be Babagooey, right?)

[Tanager]

It's not out just yet, but JSP has a 5 disk Bird set coming out next week - I'd look for this one on eMusic at some point. Pete, you have any idea what kind of lag there is on JSP releases showing up online, assuming this one shows up?

[Pete C]

Originally posted by Tanager
It's not out just yet, but JSP has a 5 disk Bird set coming out next week - I'd look for this one on eMusic at some point. Pete, you have any idea what kind of lag there is on JSP releases showing up online, assuming this one shows up?

I don't know, but I think they usually get them up within a couple of months.

[gdogus]

Originally posted by Tanager
It's not out just yet, but JSP has a 5 disk Bird set coming out next week - I'd look for this one on eMusic at some point. Any idea what that set will include??

[Pete C]

Originally posted by gdogus
Any idea what that set will include??

Looks like it's all his studio dates (master takes, I assume) 1940-48, both as leader & sideman:

http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=6286494&style=music&frm=lk_jzmtz

[Gary Delligatti]

Bababooey ay? Hmmm...I guess I've been called worse. Actually, they used to call me Spagetts. Can't figure out how they got that one tho

[gdogus]

I'm checking out two Chick Corea albums now: The Chick Corea New Trio, <i>Past, Present and Futures</i> and Chick Corea, <i>Rendezvous in New York</i>. Both sound great so far.

I've never been impressed with Corea's trio stuff, except <i>Now He Sings, Now He Sobs</i> on Blue Note; I absolutely hated the 1980s Akoustic Band and Elektric Band trios - they sounded to me like Emerson Lake and Palmer trying unsuccessfully to play jazz. I'm glad to say that this "New Trio" really gets it right, though.

The <i>Rendezvous</i> reunions of past Corea personnel could have been dull, flat performances, but the playing is fresh and very energetic. Sounds like Chick had a great 60th birthday party!

[Pete C]

Originally posted by gdogus
I've never been impressed with Corea's trio stuff, except <i>Now He Sings, Now He Sobs</i> on Blue Note;

Are you familiar with "Song of Singing" with Holland & Altschul?

[Tanager]

Originally posted by gdogus
I'm checking out two Chick Corea albums now: The Chick Corea New Trio, <i>Past, Present and Futures</i>

The opening track, "Fingerprints," just smokes. Jeff Ballard is a freakin' monster, and Cohen kills, too. When I saw Joshua Redman in London, I really didn't dig him at all...but he had Ballard on drums, and man, did I dig what he was playing. PP&F is a great disk, IMHO.

[Tanager]

Just got this email today:

==========================

Dear EMusic Subscriber,

Over the past several years, EMusic has stood alone in its
commitment to providing digital music consumers a service
that offers flexibility and portability. We remain the
ONLY service offering downloads in the standard MP3 format.
We are also unique in our focus on music from the leading
independent labels. Unlike other services, we understand
that many music consumers want to go beyond the Billboard
charts. We remain firmly committed to continuing to
provide avid music fans an alternative to the mainstream.

The digital music industry continues to change rapidly,
and EMusic also continues to evolve. The purpose of this
letter is to inform you of a number of important changes
that will affect EMusic Subscribers.

First, we are pleased to inform you that EMusic.com Inc.
is being acquired by Dimensional Associates LLC
("Dimensional"), a private equity group focused on
providing innovative online music distribution services.
Dimensional shares EMusic's consumer focused philosophy
of providing low cost, convenient access to great music.
Dimensional plans to continue enhancing the EMusic service
with new features and content and you can look forward to
hearing more once the acquisition has been completed.

Although our current privacy policy remains in effect,
http://www.emusic.com/help/privacy_policy.html
when the acquisition is completed, EMusic's privacy policy
will be changing to reflect Dimensional's ownership and your
Personal Information (as defined in the privacy policy) will
be transferred to Dimensional. Please take a few moments to
review this our new policy which will take effect around
October 30, 2003.
http://www.emusic.com/help/privacypolicy.html
As always, EMusic is firmly committed to consumer privacy
and we believe the new policy continues to reinforce this.

As an avid digital music fan, you are also aware that the
music industry continues to suffer under intense financial,
legal and technological pressure. As a provider of music
downloads, EMusic is subject to a complex system of
intellectual property rights and technological challenges
that impose high costs and often uncertain risks on the
company.

In order to respond to these ongoing challenges and
maintain a compelling service for our valued customers,
EMusic will be making a number of significant changes
in the coming weeks and months. As part of these changes,
we will be discontinuing the unlimited service plan and
replacing it with a new service offering.

Unless you visit the link below:
http://help.emusic.com/cu/index.cgi?cmd=step2&st=1&categoryID=1198
and notify us of your intention to cancel your subscription
prior to November 8, 2003, your EMusic subscription will
convert into EMusic Basic. Under EMusic Basic, you will be
billed $9.99 per month for access to the service with no
minimum monthly commitment, but you will be limited to no
more than 40 downloads during your monthly billing cycle.

In addition, EMusic is pleased to present a special,
limited time offer available exclusively to current
subscribers - EMusic Premium. Designed for our most
active subscribers, this plan allows you to download
up to 300 tracks per month (approximately 25 albums)
for a monthly charge of $50.00 - a price of just
16 cents per track - with no minimum monthly commitment.
If you are interested in registering for this subscription
plan, you must complete the EMusic XL registration
form no later than November 8, 2003.
http://help.emusic.com/cu/index.cgi?cmd=step2&st=1&categoryID=1998


You will still have unparalleled access to the best MP3s
available from independent music labels around the world.
You will continue to have the ability to download this
music, take it with you and play it wherever and however
you like. And, over the next several months EMusic will
be adding significant new labels, artists and releases
as well as enhanced features. EMusic remains committed
to providing the best MP3 service on the Internet. We
continue to believe that EMusic is the best value
available and like you, we are passionate about our music.
We believe that the changes we are making today will enable
us to provide an even more compelling service.

To learn more about the new service offering, please go to
http://www.emusic.com/messages/qanda.html
and read our revised terms and conditions at
http://www.emusic.com/bem/new_signup/terms.html
which will be effective as of November 8, 2003. If, for
any reason, you decide that you do not want to become a
member of the EMusic services as described above, you may
cancel at any time during the trial period.

As always, if you have a specific question about these
changes or need additional help with your service, the
following site will guide you through our customer service
process.

http://help.emusic.com/emhelp/

Thank you for being an EMusic Subscriber.

[Tom Storer]

All of you emusic subscribers out there will by now probably have received their email announcing that they've been bought by something called Dimensional Associates LLC. What this means is that the $10-a-month, all-you-can-download policy will disappear on November 8.

As of November 8, your $10 a month will get you 40 downloads - say, two to five CDs. Not bad for $10, it's true, but compared to unlimited downloads it's a bit of a cold shower.

There are two other possibilities: for $14.99/month you can download up to 65 tracks. And if you're already a subscriber, you can switch to the "Emusic Premium" subscription and get 300 tracks a month for, gulp, $50. Still excellent value, but $50 a month is too steep for me for any extended period of time.

However, you're no longer obliged to sign up for a three- or twelve-month period, which used to be the case. It's strictly a month-by-month subscription, so, once you've sucked the service dry of everything you just have to have, you can drop back in every few months as new things are added.

(sigh) I guess it had to happen. I always thought it was too good to be true. You still end up spending about $2 an album, which is pretty damn cheap, especially considering the amount of excellent material they have.

Now, of course, everyone will be racing to download as much as possible between now and November 8. I hope their servers are up to it!

[Gary Sisco]

Yeah, I got that notice, too, and thought the same things. But then I thought again because using a dial-up connection, I haven't really been downloading more than their new minimum program allows for, anyway, so I'll keep it til I'm bored with it, I guess.

I wouldn't mind if I thought it meant the cats would be getting some bread out of it, but I know that won't be the case. Well, I'm sure we all knew that the time would come when they realized there was some profits to be made in there somewhere and acted accordingly, so it's a bit of a downer but also to be expected.

I'm more worried about this being a product of their being bought out by another company. Every time but once so far in me online career, I've ended up locked out of sites altogether after a buy out. Hopefully, not this time. The only exception so far was when Ebay bought Paypal.

Go ahead, kid. First time's free ...

[Noj]

Dammit. Glad I was in while I was. I have a whole shelving unit of good music on cdrs.

[gdogus]

I'm pretty dissappointed. I signed on to EMusic in July for the $15 mo/3 moth subscription, loved it, and just last night renewed my subscription at the $10 mo/12 month rate. Then this morning - seven hours later - I get the email that Tanager posts above.

Crap.

And now, as I try to download stuff I've had stashed, I'm getting about 90% error rate. So at the moment, Tom, no - the servers aren't up to the fire-sale scale download.

Oh - and at the same time, they've shut down the message boards, too. Gee, I wonder why? :rolleyes:

I'm not happy.

[Gary Sisco]

I had the same problem last night. Couldn't download anything. Everyone in the world must be trying the same thing at the same time. Well, I'm staying with it anyway because I can't do "unlimited" downloading to begin with, with a dial-up, so I might as well wait til things calm down again.

[Pete C]

I wonder if this sale is directly or only coincidentally related to the NBC-Universal deal.

[Tanager]

Originally posted by Pete C
I wonder if this sale is directly or only coincidentally related to the NBC-Universal deal.

I'm guessing coincidentally? Emphasis on guess.

[John L]

40 downloads a month? Hell, that won't get you more than 1 John Zorn disk! ;)

[Gary Sisco]

Dig that. Or 1.7 punk rock albums.

[Tom Storer]

I've been getting a lot of errors, too. But I keep at it. I hope to get at least a few box sets downloaded before November 8 rolls around.

[Gary Sisco]

I keep getting frozen on "requesting file" (a command I don't normally even see when I download an album). Yesterday, I got six tracks out of ten before it froze.

How was last night's adventures? The site still mobbed?

[Nathaniel Catchpole]

Well I'm doing the same as everyone else, and getting similar errors.

I think of it more as a subscription radio station anyway (just burn 7 hour mp3 CDs of stuff by same or similar artists). What'll be more interesting is when their subscribers don't renew, and they go down the pan - see if the reinstate unlimited or go bust. I'd guess Gary is in the minority on this having 56k as a subscriber - they must have at least 50% broadband subscription. If there's no more money going to labels (not artists in most cases), but people are much more selective, it might make it even less useful for small labels to be on it. May as well offer the stuff for free if you're not getting many downloads, and may as well download illegally for those same reasons.

There'll be a 3-6 month transition while people's subs run out, wonder what'll happen when no-one renews and there aren't any new subscribers. Would be interesting to see what happens if people demanded refunds due to the large number of errors as well.

[Pete C]

Originally posted by Nathaniel Catchpole
There'll be a 3-6 month transition while people's subs run out

I wonder if they can hold people to subscriptions since they've substantially altered the terms of the contract.

[Gary Sisco]

They've already said anyone can drop the sub whenever they want to, after the new policies go into effect.

My guess is, as Pete says, everyone who's already signed up and has a relatively high-speed connection is busy stacking up downloads like planes at O'Hare so they can get what they want while it's still unlimited.

I've been saying all along in the downloading and file sharing controversies that most of it is being done by students (who have high-speed access via their schools) or people at work (ditto), or, people, like Pete, who live in major metro areas, where the technologies are very far in advance of the rest of the US.

[Tom Storer]

No one has denied it, Gary!

I'm downloading like crazy, of course. When it freezes on "requesting file," I right-click and cancel that file; usually it then goes to the next file and starts downloading it. Then I right-click the cancelled file and "resume" it, so it goes back in the queue. Sometimes it just won't download anything, then five or ten minutes later kicks in again. It takes an annoying amount of attention, it's true, and when you're counting the minutes on a dial-up connection it must be infuriating.

Nat, I'm not sure it's a given that they'll lose subscribers in the long run. I think I'll keep my subscription. Two dollars an album approx. is still pretty cheap, and I can always drop out at any time. I think the three-month or one-year subscription requirement actually kept many people away - I recommended it to several friends who balked at that. They looked at the catalog and said they could get everything they wanted easily with a month's worth of downloading, so why should they sign up for longer? By offering one-month subscriptions emusic will, I predict, pick up a potentially large new clientele of one-time subscribers who may well come back every few months as new albums are added - people who are not the geeky collector types who need to have the entire Fantasy/Prestige/Milestone etc. catalog.

Since Thursday I've downloaded Wes Montgomery's complete Riverside recordings, and a bunch by Jack McDuff; next on the list are fifty million Art Pepper records.

[Gary Sisco]

Tom -- Ah, but I wish it were so fast on my end that I could pay attention to it. Alas, it's much slower than that, with a dial-up. If I'm downloading a record, I start it as I'm going to bed for the night, it takes that long. Hours per album. Normally, I just hit "download album" and go to bed. After the download's done and the machine times out, it puts itself into slumber mode, and I deal with it in the morning. It takes *way* too long to try your technique. I'd never have the patience. The last time I tried, as remarked above, I decided to give it a try during the day, while at work. When I got home five hours later, about two thirds of the record had been downloaded but it had been stuck on "requesting file" for Jah knows how long, so I gave up, of course. I'll have to wait til things calm down at Emusic, I guess.

[Gary Sisco]

Meanwhile:

What Price Music?

October 12, 2003
By AMY HARMON





Since the introduction of vinyl records after World War II,
recorded music has assumed many shapes and sizes, each one
coming with a higher price tag than the last. Eight-track
tapes cost a dollar more than LP's when they rose to
popularity in the late 1960's and cassettes commanded a
premium over eight-tracks. When CD's debuted in the
mid-1980's, record labels sold the shiny discs for $18,
more than double the price of what they charged for the
same music on LP's and cassettes that cost more to
manufacture.

Unlike these formats, which the industry adopted
voluntarily and marketed vigorously, the latest shift- to
digitized versions of songs that can be distributed online-
have been thrust upon it, the outgrowth of a technology it
could not control. Battered by a sales slump it attributes
largely to digital piracy and heartened by a limited test
with Apple computer owners, this fall the record industry
is trying to catch up with its file-swapping customers: the
major labels and many independents have agreed to
deconstruct the album, allowing anyone with a computer to
buy any of hundreds of thousands of individual songs. Soon
huge catalogs of every genre of music will be available for
sale on the Internet from over a dozen retailers, bearing
the blessing and license agreements of the major record
labels.

No one knows what all the effects will be. But one will
certainly be on price; music in the new format will cost at
least a little less than it did in the old. The standard
charge has become 99 cents a track. Albums that cost
between $12 and $18 on CD now sell for about $10 online.
The labels have also authorized several services to offer a
kind of online lease program for music: subscribers pay a
flat $10 a month to listen to as many as half a million
tracks as often as they want over the Internet, rather than
storing them on a computer or burning them to a CD.

And the next months are expected to bring price wars - in
both the usual and a more figurative sense of the term. As
musical recordings have increasingly shed their physical
form, the record industry and its customers have been at
odds over what it all should cost. Music fans complain of
high CD prices and copy more music illicitly than they
purchase legally, while the record companies rail against
the devaluation of their product and take file-sharers to
court.

Since legal ways to experience online music are only now
becoming widely available, there is no established record
of what the market will bear or how these innovations will
be received. Will each song purchased online represent the
loss of a whole CD sale in the store? Or will customers
respond to the ease and selection of e-commerce by buying
more, overall? One possible development is that hit songs
could cost more than obscure recordings. Another is that
retailers would set prices on a sliding scale, to favor
students or high-volume buyers - a departure for an
industry that has basically sold one product, in one
configuration, discounted at periodic intervals, for
decades.

With all these unknowns, and with all the labels in
competition with one another, how did the online services
decide - even for the time being - on what to charge for a
song? By most accounts, the 99 cent trend started with
Apple Computer's chief executive, Steven P. Jobs. One
record executive who insisted that he not be identified
described a meeting last winter of the company's senior
management that Mr. Jobs addressed in New York. "He came in
and said, `People pay $3.99 for a cup of Starbucks coffee,
and it's gone in 10 minutes,' " he recalled. "If you
compare it to free, then 99 cents may seem like a lot. If
you compare it to a cup of Starbucks coffee, it seems like
a very good value."

An executive at another label, who also declined to be
identified, put it slightly differently: "Who the hell
knows?" he said of the pricing decision. "It's a shot in
the dark."

Ninety-nine cents is only slightly less than the cost of a
song on a CD (given the usual price, around $14, and the
usual number of tracks, around 12). And adjusting for
inflation, it is about 10 times more than 45-r.p.m. singles
cost during their heyday in the 1950's. Still, Mr. Jobs's
take on the psychological appeal of the price, at least for
the small, affluent audience of Macintosh users to whom the
iTunes service has been marketed, may be apt. Apple said
last month that the iTunes store had sold 10 million songs
in its first four months of operation, about half of which
were sold as full albums. The company plans to offer the
service to the much larger market of Windows PC users this
week.

Two weeks later Napster, which, before being shut down by a
court order in 2001, was more responsible than any other
factor for the vast popularity of unsanctioned
file-swapping, will begin its second life. The
rehabilitated service, whose underlying software is based
on the Pressplay service that the software company Roxio
bought from Universal Music Group and Sony Music, was shown
off to the press last week and is scheduled to open to the
public on Oct. 30.

Visitors to its Web site will be able to download full
albums for $9.95. That's a whole 4 cents less than at the
Apple store. For individual tracks, Napster has struck on
the same price as Apple: 99 cents. The company's research
showed that lowering the price, even to 75 cents, would not
elicit proportionately more sales.

A recent real-life experiment in price-lowering produced
very different results. In a six-week promotion earlier
this year, RealNetwork's Rhapsody service allowed
subscribers to burn tracks to a CD for just 49 cents. Sales
more than tripled.

"Simple logic would say, `Well, duh, you'd make more money
if you price tracks at 49 cents, or maybe less,' " said Rob
Glaser, chief executive of RealNetworks. "The problem is
you can't prove to these guys that the 49-cent price does
not cannibalize CD sales. The experiment was successful,
but the patient was worried about the side-effects."

Mike Bebel, Napster's president, said his researchers did
not even bother to test the effect of prices below 75
cents, because they would not be sustainable unless the
entire industry embraced a new economic model. In practical
terms, record companies would have to slash the wholesale
price they charge online retailers (which at present is 70
or 80 cents a track). That would mean accepting a slimmer
profit margin for online sales than for CD's, which they
currently seem intent on resisting. Beyond that, although
their royalty percentage would be the same, artists would
have to accept a much smaller check for each sale. Getting
either party to contemplate those changes may be more of a
challenge than anyone's ready to take on.

Meanwhile, the first users of these new services have begun
to derive their own calculus of commercial value. Given the
large overlap in the music that the online services carry,
slight variations in how they operate may dictate which
service wins the most listeners.

One of the most obvious distinctions is whether services
allow users to see what other people are listening to, to
read over their playlists and compare their favorites. That
feature was regarded as a key to the success of the
original Napster, a way to create a sense of community out
of the varieties of cultural taste. It's still popular now,
even when the files in question are being purchased rather
than swapped. Rhapsody subscribers can e-mail each other
their playlists. And eMusic subscribers gather at the
www.mymixedtapes.com site to post thematic lists of the
songs they have downloaded, which can in turn be downloaded
by others. (Among the current selection: "Songs to
Hallucinate By: 63 minutes of sound that your girlfriend
will hate" and "The Beatles Get Soul," featuring Beatles
covers by blues and R&B artists.)

"Creating a viable online music service is less about
acquisition than tapping into what makes music work on a
social level," said Mike McGuire, research director for
media at GartnerG2, who has explored Napster and several of
the other new services. "Once you get beyond the
transaction to that place where it's kind of magic, I think
what you're doing is ensuring future transactions."

Another apparently valuable feature is the automated - and
sometimes uncannily accurate - recommendations service that
many online retailers offer. Todd Armstrong, 41, stopped
buying music soon after college. But when MusicMatch came
installed on a new computer, he signed up for the
$4.95-a-month Internet radio service, which supplied
additional suggestions based on the artists he selected.
That's how he discovered the rap artist Nas, among others.

"The real power of it is it has a good idea of what I
might want," he said. Earlier this month, the service added
a feature that allows users to buy the songs they're
listening to; since its debut, Mr. Armstrong has bought 20
tracks for 99 cents each.

At a time when radio selection is notoriously restricted
and CD's are increasingly competing for shelf space, online
services do present consumers with a real alternative:
Rhapsody, which like several of its competitors offers more
tracks than Virgin's Megastores, said that overall its
subscribers listen to 85 percent of them on any given
month. Apple says its customers have purchased 80 percent
of the 200,000 tracks in its online catalog. Even so,
several big acts, including Radiohead and Metallica have so
far declined to allow their albums to be broken up and
distributed as individual tracks, citing the artistic
integrity of their work.

Some of the services are moving - slowly - to add artists
without record deals to their catalogs, which could
ultimately signal a shift in power away from the five major
labels, which control about 80 percent of the music sold in
the United States.

Napster said it would feature a handful of unsigned artists
each month, selected by its staff. Apple met with
independent labels in June and several, like CD Baby, are
negotiating with the services on behalf of groups of
independent artists.

All these features may well persuade consumers to start
paying to download music. But the record labels won't have
succeeded unless they can also persuade consumers to stop
downloading it free.

Alan Peterson, 35, of San Francisco admits to having
dabbled in downloading before subscribing to Rhapsody for
$10 a month. Now he finds the old, free system too
inconvenient. With his computer hooked up to his stereo
speakers, he has set up playlists - "high-tempo soul,"
"low-tempo soul," "80's hits" - for different moods. And,
he says, he can protect his investment on the CD's he does
buy for the car by sampling them first.

Some find the advantages of e-commerce even more persuasive
than that. Chas Schinzer, who has a $9.95-a-month
subscription to eMusic, a service that features mostly
independent labels, still fumes at the memory of buying a
Blue Oyster Cult record in 1976 for "Don't Fear the Reaper"
and hating every other song on it. "The shift to buying
online music is a windfall for me," he added. "I will never
buy a CD again."

Like the VCR, which the movie studios sought to ban but
which turned out to provide a huge new market for them,
online music could eventually be the record industry's
salvation. "This is much bigger than the CD," said Doug
Morris, chairman of Universal Music Group, the world's
largest music company. "The CD and the LP and the cassette
were all packaged goods. This is about being able to find
all the world's music in one store - a Professor Longhair
record, a Benny Goodman record. Where are you going to find
that in a record store now?"

Under pressure from illegal downloading, Universal, among
other labels, slashed the suggested list price of most of
its CD's by nearly a third last month. Mr. Morris says he
had no choice - "we had to compete with free," he explained
- but he is hopeful the outcome will be higher sales
overall. And though the industry may not be ready to
reconceive its entire business model, it has seen fit to
update some of its more archaic accounting practices.
Royalties, for example, were traditionally set at a fixed
rate, regardless of actual costs. (When the CD was
introduced, labels charged consumers twice as much but paid
artists only the same amount for many years.) This time
around, however, to persuade artists to participate in the
online services, the record companies have altered the
formula, eliminating certain fees that used to be charged
against royalties and leaving the artists with a bigger -
slightly bigger - profit.

But by any measure, if the CD is giving way to the Internet
as the dominant form of distribution, the industry's
biggest adjustments lie ahead. Some analysts expect the
industry to contract as plummeting CD sales force more
specialty outlets to close and relegate music to shelves in
superstores like Wal-Mart. Music, at least in the short
term, will become less diverse as the industry has fewer
resources to invest in new artists or those less likely to
become mainstream hits.

A brighter view has the industry test-marketing artists
with a few songs online, enabling the major labels to
spread their resources among a greater number of musicians
and perhaps increasing their odds of success.

But for the time being, record executives are still seeking
to protect the more reliable, more lucrative CD business,
which currently accounts for almost all of its revenue.
After all, some say, antipiracy, anticopying technology may
be available within the year.

If that happens, the industry is likely to back away from
the kind of pricing innovations with which it is now
experimenting. Already, a strain is evident between record
labels that want to restrict what consumers can do with the
music they buy and the new on-line retailers, which argue
that people won't use their services if they can't use it
freely.

"This isn't going to work if people don't feel like they
own the music," said a senior executive at one of the new
services, who declined to be identified because of
continuing negotiations with the labels. "Doesn't someone
over there realize that? Why should people pay for it if
it's not more convenient - when they can just get it for
free?"

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/12/arts/music/12HARM.html?ex=1066960637&ei=1&en=6c0bdab5ad316304

[Gary Sisco]

Interesting that someone has finally clued in on the social aspect of music, including the buying and downloading of it. Music listening isn't just a private, individual transaction at Wal-Mart, especially for people who are serious music people. As the (real) record store disappears (which is often a social atmosphere as well) from the landscape, along with other social aspects of music, virtual communities of likeminded music people -- like our own bbs, in a different way -- begin to replace them. But in doing so, alter the landscape.

Another important observation in this article is that of the increasing loss of control of the major labels, a trend I entirely hope continues and accelerates. As the landscape changes, businesswise, those who know how to change with it will appear or adjust, and those who don't, won't and will go into eventual extinction.

In the meantime, musicians will also be freed of label control, and, in the end, people will be able to choose from an incredible variety of music that simply isn't being offered on the old market of brick-and-mortar stores, nearly all of which are now chain stores selling generic selections of schlock dumped on the market by the megacorps. Nor would it have been.

The major labels, really, have been busy creating their own demise, all along.

[Noj]

I consider the collection of CDRs I have burned from emusic akin to recorded audio cassettes I used to make in the 80s and early 90s--cool to listen to, but not of the same value as store-bought CDs or records. CDRs scratch easier and won't always play in the car. The sound quality is not the same. The transitions from track to track are not as smooth. Sometimes I can't extract/burn certain tracks, and I won't burn incomplete albums--why bother? I don't even store my CDR collection alongside my CDs--they don't deserve the same shelf space.

BTW, EMusic is really taking a dump on me since the announcement. My computer has froze up several times.

[clinthopson]

Reading this thread has whetted my appetite to sign up. I like the idea of popping for the $50 fee until I get what I want off the catalog and then changing to the $14 fee.

The download problems you all are having trouble me. I have a high speed dsl connection (100 mbs) in my office. Do you think that will help the problem?

Pete, I look to you as my maven. I would appreciate any thoughts.

[Tom Storer]

Clint, Emusic provides its own "download manager" software to download the files. It's always been a little bit buggy for me, not enough to be a serious obstacle, but still, sometimes it acts funny. The problems I'm having now - messages like "Error, download incomplete" or "Error, the server has sent a non-valid response" or, more simply, timeout errors - are similar to the ones I had with version 1 of their software. Version 2 fixed a lot of bugs. The problems now are perhaps due to all the current subscribers logging in at once to download as much as they possibly can before November 8. The servers are probably under strain.

BWTFDIK?

[gdogus]

My own downloading problems in the past few days have changed a bit. At first, I was getting about 85% errors - the files simply didn't download, and I had to keep after them until they did. Yesterday and today, though, it's become more insidious. The files claim to have downloaded, or so EMusic's download manager tells me, but in fact they are incomplete (only a few KB instead of the several MBs they should be). If you don't look carefully at the files themselves on your hard drive, you may think you've got something, when in fact you don't. So now you really have to listen to everything after it's downloaded to be sure it's complete. I'm sure it's all due to server overload, and will calm down eventually, but what a pain...

And I'm still pissed off that EMusic shut down their message boards when they made the announcement. That just stinks of fascism, somehow...

[Tom Storer]

Well, an inconsiderate attitude toward their customers, certainly. "Fascism" might be just a slight exaggeration. ;-)

[gdogus]

Originally posted by Tom Storer
Well, an inconsiderate attitude toward their customers, certainly. "Fascism" might be just a slight exaggeration. ;-) Only slight. EMusic's removal of the message boards is certainly more than an act of inconsideration, Tom. It's a means of shutting off dissent and protest. They've intentionally taken away the only practical means for their customers to communicate with one another, and therefore have forced us into isolation and collective silence. I realize that it's a business, not a nation, and that EMusic didn't have to implement the message boards in the first place, but that doesn't change the facts: they did provide a message board area, it was active, but then they shut it down in anticipation of protest over the new policies. Sure, as individuals we can still write to customer support, but in reply we'll receive only an auotmated response with a description of the new policy. And in the meantime, most EMusic customers have no way of knowing what others think of the situation.

Control communication, and you control the people, y'know?

[Alastair]

`People pay $3.99 for a cup of Starbucks coffee,
and it's gone in 10 minutes,' " he recalled. "If you
compare it to free, then 99 cents may seem like a lot. If
you compare it to a cup of Starbucks coffee, it seems like
a very good value."

If you compare virtually anything to the price of a cup of Starbucks coffee it sees like good value.

I mean, seriously...

[Gary Sisco]

It also cuts down on the social effect that the article mentions, of course, shutting down the board. I never used it, myself, but I can see where it would, quite apart from the protests that would have been registered.

Seems like these companies change hands regularly. Some comes up with a good idea, gets it up and running, and someone else comes in and buys it. Happened with PayPal, too.

Oh, well. The rush will slow down and things will go back to normal.

Clint -- You'll do fine with your connection. Mine has a maximum speed (so far) of 53 kbs! (The phone lines are too old to get all the way up to 56k.) So, when you start downloading mega-sized files, like an album, it's really going to take hours. Yours would take minutes.

Noj -- I hear you about the CD-Rs (though all of mine have burned and worked in the car, so far; occasionally one will skip in my old changer, which is older than the CD-R craze, but that's been slowly crapping out anyway.) There is a sound difference when you download, doubtless. Burning is a lot more accurate, of course. And true they scratch easier (and are useless once they have). I decided when I started doing this to only download records I was fairly certain I wouldn't have dropped cash on, anyway, but would like to hear out of curiosity, and I don't download anything by jazz cats who are still alive, partly because there are still all sorts of royalty issues to straighten out, on their end of things. So, yeah, I don't place as much value on them, either. They're very much like my cassettes, as you say. I think of burns given to me by friends the same way, like I did when people used to give me a cassette. (I still have hundreds of cassettes -- some of which have a shelf-life going back to the '70s and are still working as well as ever!). I'm also one of those guys who still wants to be able to hold a record in my hand, and still miss album covers, for that reason.

I'd never switch over to a virtual music world like apparently many people already have, for that and other reasons. Another reason being that formats and retrieval systems will certainly change many times in years to come, as they have in years past. I'm betting the standard CD and players will last a good long while, longer than I-man, so I don't worry about that. But there'll come a time and not far off when the virtual world will come up with other storage and retrieval systems that will make the present ones as obsolete as old-school computer tapes. And then the whole process will start over as people begin replacing their collections (again). Nah, I'll stick with the physical object in me hands.

[Tom Storer]

Originally posted by gdogus
Control communication, and you control the people, y'know?

I agree it sucks for them to shut down their message board. But they're not really "controlling communication," let alone the people; they had provided a facility, now they're removing it. It was nice to have their board but it's not like it's an inalienable right of humankind that is being brutally squelched.

When you think about it, they have good commercial reason to shut their board down: they may suspect (probably accurately) that their BBS facilitated contact between emusic subscribers and potential subscribers who, through the BBS, had a ready-made pool of contacts to whom they could suggest: "Hey, man, let's do some file-sharing. In return for your emusic stuff, I have..."

They probably thought at one point that having an online "community" was good for business; now they probably think it's better to have atomized individual customers. It sucks, but one can understand the logic behind it. They're not a warm and fuzzy community-builder, they're shopkeepers out to make a buck.

[gdogus]

I promise not to beat a dead horse on this one, but a couple of points...
Originally posted by Tom Storer
I agree it sucks for them to shut down their message board. But they're not really "controlling communication," let alone the people; they had provided a facility, now they're removing it. It was nice to have their board but it's not like it's an inalienable right of humankind that is being brutally squelched.Well, it is controlling communication, a point you make yourself in your subsequent comments.Originally posted by Tom Storer
When you think about it, they have good commercial reason to shut their board down: they may suspect (probably accurately) that their BBS facilitated contact between emusic subscribers and potential subscribers who, through the BBS, had a ready-made pool of contacts to whom they could suggest: "Hey, man, let's do some file-sharing. In return for your emusic stuff, I have...""May," "probably" - except that the EMusic site claims the message boards will be "restored soon." Actually, they claimed that until today; I now see that the link to the message boards has been removed altogether. Hmm.Originally posted by Tom Storer
They probably thought at one point that having an online "community" was good for business; now they probably think it's better to have atomized individual customers. It sucks, but one can understand the logic behind it. They're not a warm and fuzzy community-builder, they're shopkeepers out to make a buck. True, true. But as the article posted by Gary Sisco points out, a social community can help to make that buck. One benefit of the EMusic boards was the recommendations from other customers, leading users to artists and music they might not find on their own. Even if EMusic doesn't charge per track or per album download, if their customers sense that there's more great music available than they realize - if there is an impression of depth, of potential for discovery - then those customers are more likely to extend their subscriptions in order to plumb that depth. But the timing of the message board plug-pulling suggests more immediate, short-term motives on the part of EMusic - suppression of protest, among others.

Would that protest be bad for business? Sure - a potential subscriber comes along, checks the message boards, finds a lot of outrage, and clicks away from the site very quickly. So you're right, Tom, of course. It's a business, not a government, as I said. The tactic just struck me as chillingly reminiscent of fascist methodology. An overstatement? Probably. But you see my point, I hope, so I'll stop now.

[Gary Sisco]

I think they'll notice a bit of a drop, eventually, because of the closing off of the social interaction. May be, too, that the new company wanted it gone as part of the purchase. But it's probably more like BN shutting down its bbs.

People do share music. And sharing music does help increase artist sales. Always has. There's no difference in kind between sharing music via cassette or via electrons. People have always done that, since the beginning of home recording, and probably with sheet music before that, doubtless. The music industry always freaks out when a new technological change comes along. They freaked out over cassette tape, too.

I'm also sure the demise of the real record store is at least partially to blame for the CD sales decline of recent years, and for the same reasons. I've bought many a record and CD I hadn't planned on (or even knew about, lots of times) while in a record store because of conversation with friends, other customers, an owner familiar with me and my tastes, etc.

I loved the remark the exec made about Starbucks. Like anyone goes around calculating things that way. First, the day I'd pay four bucks for a cup of coffee will be a cold day in hell, Starbucks or not. Second, he could've said the same thing about a good breakfast. I mean, you eat it and that's that. But what in the world would that have to say about the value of a CD or digitalized song? Nothing I can think of. To me, it just goes to show how far out of touch with other people's reality these guys can be. They also act like if something seems logical to them, as in the coffee or download scenario, then that's all there is to it. Case closed. Well, not quite, because it won't seem all that logical to others. Let's see ... Do I want a coffee or a new e-song? Hmmm.... I mean, come on, already.

They also seem to have forgotten that the 7" single (which was a hugely popular format for many years, and still is, in some musics) provided two songs, not one. And often the b-side would be a song available only on the 7".

[Tanager]

Originally posted by Gary Sisco
I loved the remark the exec made about Starbucks. Like anyone goes around calculating things that way. First, the day I'd pay four bucks for a cup of coffee will be a cold day in hell, Starbucks or not.

With all due respect, Gary, I don't think you're on the mark here. You might not think that way, and you wouldn't pay that much for a cup of coffee, but the meteoric expansion of Starbucks' business is, IMHO, empirical evidence that lots of folks will, in fact, pay that much for a cup of coffee/whatever (as foolish as it might seem to you and, yes, to me as well). I know from conversations with friends that plenty of people, at least within my admittedly limited realm of experience (and including myself), do make calculations like this with regard to how they spend their money.

I think Jobs knew what he was talking about, personally.

[clinthopson]

Starbucks copied Microsoft's motto: "No free refills."

[Gary Sisco]

Tanager -- I'm sure I could be mistaken. I just couldn't imagine being in that position, I guess. I'm the kind of guy that gets annoyed when I ask for a cup of coffee somewhere and then have to decide which of 53 countries or regions, and which roast of same, and etc. Guess it's not one of life's great pleasures for me, once I've had my morning pot, er, um ... I didn't mean that like it sounds. Having picked it (only once, thank goodness) changes my view of the bean, as well. Sorry if I offended. None was intended. Not that I don't enjoy a Blue Mountain cup when it's offered, but I'd not go without music for one. And agreed, if I did spend four bucks on a cup of coffee, I'd be thinking carefully about my music money, if any were left. You're right about that.

[Pete C]

Back to the music.

Everybody should have the Poll Winners albums (Barney Kessel, Ray Brown, Shelly Manne).

And Mandingo Griot Society (led by Foday Musa Suso on kora, and featuring Don CHerry, a young Hamid Drake, and Adam Rudolph).

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drc700/c764/c7644199yx9.jpg

[Tanager]

Originally posted by Gary Sisco
Tanager -- I'm sure I could be mistaken. I just couldn't imagine being in that position, I guess. I'm the kind of guy that gets annoyed when I ask for a cup of coffee somewhere and then have to decide which of 53 countries or regions, and which roast of same, and etc. Guess it's not one of life's great pleasures for me, once I've had my morning pot, er, um ... I didn't mean that like it sounds. Having picked it (only once, thank goodness) changes my view of the bean, as well. Sorry if I offended. None was intended. Not that I don't enjoy a Blue Mountain cup when it's offered, but I'd not go without music for one. And agreed, if I did spend four bucks on a cup of coffee, I'd be thinking carefully about my music money, if any were left. You're right about that.

No offense taken whatsoever - I don't drink coffee, and I hope I wouldn't spend $4 on a cup either. I was really only saying that I (and some of my friends) do make the kinds of calculations to which Jobs was referring...if I can spend $20 to eat a meal, I don't have a problem with spending, oh, $15 to get a CD I get to keep and listen to. But I do wish I liked coffee, b/c I love the smell...

[Gary Sisco]

If I had to choose between food and a new CD, I'd buy the food, for sure. And have. I lived for ten years with a shoebox full of cassette tapes as my entire music collection. And to tell the truth, I didn't mind all that much. Of course, they were cassettes of some damned great music -- the kind you don't get tired of.

I just accepted long ago that disposable income is for music, and to a lesser extent, books. I don't go to the movies, don't have or pay for television, we almost never go out for dinner anymore, or any of the other forms of paid-per entertainment.

[Tanager]

Originally posted by Gary Sisco
If I had to choose between food and a new CD, I'd buy the food, for sure.

Yah, I wasn't talking that choice - I was talking spending $20 for a meal, which I think rises beyond the level of spending required for "necessity." If I can (and occasionally) do spend that, then skipping one of those and getting a CD instead seems like a bargain, all things considered.

Anyways, back to eMusic - if you can d/l it, there is a recently released Bob Moses session from 1968 that sounds really interesting - I just d/l'ed it, but I haven't listened to it yet. It's called Love Animal, and it features, among others, Larry Coryell and Keith Jarrett. The AMG writeup is here (http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&uid=MISS70310011004&sql=Axe548qnzbtm4).

[zemry]

Call me paranoid.......but I believe that emusic is intentionally making it hard to download an unlimited amount of cds during the transition period.

[Mike P]

There is something funny going on with E-Music. I have never had a problem downloading before. Now it is impossible to download a complete album. After the first cut of an album is downloaded, I get "ERROR: THE SERVER RETURNED AN INVALID OR......" Also, it is obvious that they are dragging their feet with new jazz releases. There are several new releases on Prestige, Milestone, OJC, High Note and Concord Jazz that have not been added.

[BFrank]

I would LIKE to be paranoid, but I just think that the servers are overloaded with members trying to download as much as possible before D-Day.

As far as the lack of new titles, I'm sure they're holding off until the new service goes into effect. Why "give away" the good stuff?

[Gary Sisco]

Yeah, I wouldn't get paranoid about it.

It's more like the basement sale at Macy's, I'd imagine. I'll wager it gets back to normal just about the same time the unlimited downloads period ends.

[Pete C]

Anybody who doesn't know the Gil Melle albums should check 'em out. I've been listening to a bunch of OJC 50's progressive & third stream things I downloaded a while back: Melle, Red Norvo, Teddy Charles, Don Ellis, Gil Evans, John Eardley.

[zemry]

I still think that their short term goal is to prevent members from downloading a large numbers of cds and then leaving!

[Gary Sisco]

You give them too much credit. It's really just a mad rush on the parts of those who are trying to get every last unlimited track possible out of them. Servers can only handle so much traffic, effectively. There are technological limits, here, when you're talking thousands of people downloading megasized files, all at the same time, even with the most advanced connections.

[Gary Sisco]

Their mass email was like hanging a sign outside a frat house: "Free beer til 9:00 Sunday morning!"

[zemry]

Originally posted by Gary Sisco
Their mass email was like hanging a sign outside a frat house: "Free beer til 9:00 Sunday morning!"


Probably the most succinct and best explanation so far!

[gdogus]

Okay, I'm no economist, but... ITunes charges $.99/track. EMusic doesn't charge per track, exactly, but rather $10/month for up to 40 tracks (okay, $.25/track, if you like). Fine - it's 1/4 the price of ITunes. I get that.

But I don't get this - what's the big advantage of the new policy for EMusic? They're still taking in only $10/month per subscriber - no increase in revenue, and potentially a big reduction if we predict a rash of cancelled subscriptions. The only change on their end is a massively-reduced server load, which may or may not have significant economic advantages; I don't know. Seems to me they could have reduced the server load by imposing a much less severe limit on downloads - going from 2000 max/month to 40 max/month is pretty radical.

But from where I'm sitting, it looks like the customer gets less music, and Emusic gets less money. Now, what exactly is the point?

Can someone explain this?

[Pete C]

Originally posted by gdogus

Can someone explain this?

I assume it has to do with the way they want to negotiate royalties/fees with the labels. I don't know what the arrangement with the labels has been in the past, but certainly with the unlimited model any artist royalties would have been minimal. Several months ago I asked a friend who has recorded for Atavistic what, if anything, his contractual royalty arrangement was regarding Emusic. He didn't know, and said he'd get back to me, but I still haven't heard from him.

[Gary Sisco]

Well, let's remember that Emusic was bought out, so who knows what the new company is thinking or why. I *hope* it has something to do with artist royalties, as Pete says.

We might also be seeing the beginning of the end of legal unlimited downloading.

First one's free, kid.

[Tom Storer]

Was there any company besides emusic that was offering legal unlimited downloading? I don't think it's the beginning of the end, I think it is the end of legal unlimited downloading.

The way I understood it, the amount emusic paid to the record companies was a percentage of their profit, not a percentage of per-track fees. I'd guess record companies would prefer a per-track fee, and that emusic risked losing their deals with some companies unless they did it that way.

BWTHDIK?

[Gary Sisco]

Well, you're right, I guess. I'm not that familiar with all or even most of the pay-for download sites.

One thing to remember is that paying a record company a fee is not the same as the company paying out any of that "fee" to artists. In fact, it might well work the other way, as I assume the company's are continuing to hold their position that downloading is a promotional activity (from their perspective) and therefore not something for which royalities to the artist are due. In fact, any expenses related to promo are charged against future royalities. I'm sure their lawyers have already figured out a way to define a fee as an expense. That's what lawyers are for, after all ...

[Gary Sisco]

A bit of info that may be of help. I finally complained via email about the downloading problem and got an automated response (below). Not much for customer service but there were some apparently useful bits of info in it. I went to the site marked below and downloaded e-music manager 2 yesterday and had much better but still not acceptable results than I had before. Also, I noticed that the album I test downloaded afterwards listed at least half of the tracks as being "incomplete," but the whole thing has so far played normally, at least on my computer, and I'm into the last track now. Mystery? Who knows? Who cares? At least I can download, now.

Their email:

Hello,

Thank you for contacting EMusic Customer Support
regarding downloading music from EMusic.com. Our
commitment is to help you as quickly as possible so
that you can get back to discovering and downloading
music. This is an auto response. Please read it
thoroughly.

We are currently experiencing extremely heavy site
traffic. This traffic spike is causing slow or failed
downloads, and failures with 30 second samples,
especially during high traffic hours. If you
have difficulty downloading any single track, or are
experiencing failed tracks during entire album
downloads, we ask you to please try these downloads
again, later in the evening or earlier in the morning
for best results.

Below are several solutions for known downloading
issues. Most of the problems our customers experience
stem from these issues and these instructions may help
to correct them.

Error: EMP Not Found Error using the EMusic Download
Manager

Solution: Clear your temporary internet files in
Internet Explorer:

1.) Click on the Tools Menu
2.) Click on Internet Options
3.) On the General tab, click on Delete Files . . .
4.) Click on OK when the Delete Files window appears
5.) Click OK on the Internet Options window
6.) Close your browser
7.) Reopen your browser and re-login at www.emusic.com
8.) You should now be able to download files from
EMusic with the Download Manager without receiving
this error.

Error: Sharing Violation using the EMusic Download
Manager

Solution: If you are using the MSN 8 Browser, the
sharing violation error that you are seeing is due to
the fact that MSN 8 is known to be incompatible with
EMusic. In order to download from EMusic, please use
a browser such as Internet Explorer, Netscape,
Mozilla, or Opera. If you are experiencing a sharing
violation error outside of the MSN 8 browser,
please clear your temporary internet files in Internet
Explorer and follow the same steps above for the EMP
not found error.

All Windows, Mac, and Linux users must download the
EMusic Download Manager 2.0 in order to download any
tracks or albums from the EMusic site.

To find the appropriate version for your operating
system please visit the Download Manager page:

http://www.emusic.com/help/download.html

For all other Mac download issues please visit:

http://help.emusic.com/emtech/

If you are experiencing any other issues related to
downloads, please visit our System Status Report at:

http://help.emusic.com/ssr/index.pl?t=3

If your problem is not solved by the solutions above
or in the System Status Report, please click the
following link and follow the instructions. Your
inquiry will be categorized as a high priority and we
will get back to you as quickly as possible.

http://help.emusic.com/cu/index.cgi?cmd=step2&st=1&t=4&categoryID=1602&tid=1900991

Regards,
EMusic Customer Support

[gdogus]

Originally posted by Gary Sisco
From EMusic customer support:

We are currently experiencing extremely heavy site
traffic. This traffic spike is causing slow or failed
downloads, and failures with 30 second samples,
especially during high traffic hours. If you
have difficulty downloading any single track, or are
experiencing failed tracks during entire album
downloads, we ask you to please try these downloads
again, later in the evening or earlier in the morning
for best results. Yeah, no kidding. I try again and again, but have found it nearly impossible to get an entire album anymore. Once in a while a track will come through, most just fail, and others claim to be complete but show up on my hard drive with a "zero k" file size. I retry the tracks, but rarely have any luck. The irony is that the more we have to try downloading tracks multiple times, the greater the traffic spike...and the more failures we get..and the more we have to try again...or just give up.

And I'm paying for this?

[Nick]

I've had a terrible time getting stuff off emusic during the day since I received that email. However, in the middle of the night I've had pretty good luck. If you're up between midnight and 4am give it a try. Less than 2 weeks left!

[clinthopson]

It sounds to me like this isn't the time for me to jump into Emusic.

I think I'll take a wait and see position until you guys are happy with the service.

I've never been much of a pioneer.

[Gary Sisco]

I wish everybody'd get done trying to download the entire Fantasy catalogue all at the same time. Jeez. What a frantic rush! I assume it's many, many people with high-speed connections downloading shit round the clock.

If it doesn't calm down after the 8th, I'm going to tell my credit card company that I'm being charged for services not rendered and request a refund to back when I was able to use E-music. Since their email came out, I've managed to download all of two lp-length albums; that's all.

That's not "unlimited," I'm afraid, which is what I'm paying for.

[Mike P]

Isn't today the Day???

[BFrank]

I think today is the LAST day.
Tomorrow is the FIRST day.

... if you know what I mean.

[Gary Sisco]

I think Pete's right because it was too busy for me to use last night, again. Sigh. I had the machine on all night allegedly downloading "Swinging With Pee Wee Russell" and ended up with only five cuts downloaded, come morning. I might dispute my last month's credit card charge for "unlimited" downloading, as mine was severely limited. Since they made their mass email, I managed to download two entire albums, and it took four or five tries each to download those, successfully.

If it doesn't go back to normal tomorrow, I probably will dispute the charge, retro to the mailing.

[Gary Sisco]

Well, maybe today's the day after all. I just did a test and the album I tried to download last night started downloading right away, which hasn't happened on my end since their announcement. Perhaps tonight I can get my *very limited* 40 downloads.

Motherfuckers.

Oh, well, they're still coming in total at about a dollar a record, so far, regardless. That'll go up now, of course, with the 40 tracks limit, but even that'll be a pretty cheap album price, if not so great a price for a CD-R sans art work or anything. There is a lot of stuff in there I'd like to hear but would probably not pay out regular prices for, so what the hell. I'll get to hear some of it, anyway.

[chuckyd4]

Mine certainly seems to be doing better this morning... the delay times have been astronomically reduced as opposed to last week, and nothing seems to be coming up with error messages. Too bad I'm almost up to the limit for this month just trying to figure that out. Emusic was so nice while it lasted, too.... I foresee this as the beginning of the end

[BFrank]

Interesting........I still had 3 tunes in my EMusic Downloader from last night that I couldn't d/l. They came down fine today, but it didn't count against my limit.

Guess I should have loaded it up last night.

[Pete C]

Here's a recommendation: Oscar Noriega - Luciano's Dream. Great band, with Cuong Vu, Brad Shepik & Tom Rainey.

[Gary Sisco]

Working normally for me, again, finally. Man, I missed out on a lot of stuff while that mad rush was going on. Oh, well, I figure, what, ten songs to the average album? Four albums for 9.99. Not bad. Better than the used store. And it'll help keep me listening to new things while not dropping much bread. Not a bad deal, really, but I'm still steamed over their inability to deal with what ought to have been an expected mad use of their site.

[chuckyd4]

Well, I already hit my limit for this month (though it says my total refreshes on the 25th, anyone know what's going on there?)... I did manage to pick up the Globe Unity Orchestra on the Atavistic UMS, which only has two tracks. I realized this was a good strategy - try to pick those jazz albums with really long tracks, so you get more albums for your dollar

[Pete C]

I actually quit Emusic in September, before this all happened. I have so much backlog I figured I'd give it a breather.

I think one of the consequences of the change is it might lead people to be more track-oriented than album-oriented, which seems to be the mindset of downloading. If I were now downloading OJCs I might skip the alternate takes in many cases. I'd also be spending more time with audio samples, where I used to automatically download anything that looked vaguely interesting.

[Mike P]

If you don't use all 40 downloads in one month. Do they carry the unused downloads over to the next month or do you just lose them?

[Gary Sisco]

Probably use it or lose it, since it's "up to" 40/month.

Pete's right, though. No alt takes for me, either. And I might mix tracks from different artists, where I wouldn't have before. But one good thing about the albums from the days, is that they normally only had ten or less songs on them.

[Mike P]

I just found the answer to my question.

(A) The new EMusic service allows subscribers to download a maximum number of tracks during each billing month. Unused downloads do not carry over to the next billing month.



Make sure you use all 40 downloads or they're wasted.

[Pete C]

Maybe Cingular will start a service with rollover downloads.

[frankiepop]

emusic downloads seem to be smokin' this week, no?

[Gary Sisco]

Seems like I got under their radar somehow, because I've downloaded two albums, both of which have many tracks, enough so it should've burned the 40 off, but their website says I still have 26 left this month. Maybe I downloaded the Pee Wee Russell right at the very end of the unlimited period, after people had backed off in their usage but before they started counting. Cool, whichever way, for me.

By the way, lovers of Indian music: You can download quite a number of whole albums without worrying much about using 40 tracks, because the tracks tend to be so long -- like four per album.

[jkjazz]

It's interesting seeing all your troubles with eMusic. Here's the view from my side.

I run JazzTrumpetSolos.com and signed up as an affiliate with eMusic. After 2 or 3 months, I started making money. Small money, but money nevertheless. Had a few people sign up. I had $14.00 in my account in March. Yada, yada, yada, life goes on.

It occurs to me in September to see how much money is in the bank. I find out that I was "deactivated" in March. What's going on??? I write them and get this reply:

<-----Their Reply ----->
Your site was disabled due to our most recent operation and we would very much like to reconsider you for our new premier program. To be considered, please reapply through the online form located here:

http://www.emusic.com/affiliate/index.html

Please fill out the application in full. We will not be able to consider sites or accounts without a valid federal tax ID or social security number.

We sincerely apologize for the confusion this has caused. Our streamlining operation was necessary to improve the effectiveness of our program. We appreciate your understanding and patience in this matter.

Best regards

<-----End Reply--->

What the hell does this mean??? "due to our most recent operation???

I reapply and am promptly accepted, so there is no problem with the site meeting their strict acceptance policy, i suppose.

I ask if they will transfer the $14.00 balance from my "disabled" account to my new account and...

> Dear John,
>
> Unfortunately, we are not able to carry over commissions from the previous
> account. We are only able to issue payment if the minimum threshold has
> been met.
>
> Please let us know if you have any further questions or concerns.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> EMusic.com Affiliate Program
>

So I ask, alright, could you please just reactivate my old account and that will be fine.

The response???

>Dear John,
>
>Unfortunately, we are unable to reactivate an account once it has been disabled. In order
>to participate in the program, you would need to submit a new application with a different
>username and password.
>
>Best Regards,
>
>EMusic.com Affiliate Program


So, they have screwed me. I guess their policy is to accept the site as an affiliate, allowing it to send traffic until it begins to make some money and disable the account when the commissions approach the payment threshold of $20.00. eMusic does not notify the webmaster and they continue to get the traffic until the wemaster one day stumbles accross it.

Thanks for letting me rant!

jk

[Gary Sisco]

JK -- Don't forget that there was a sale of the company. Sounds to me like you're dealing with the new guys, who aren't honoring the deals made with the old guys. Sucks, either way, though.

I'm going with Indian music for a while. Downloaded two tracks last night, which is an entire CD's worth of music.

[frankpop1]

yea, the emusic as a company has always been impersonal though.





transition: the duval and whitecage recording is worth coming back for a purchase though. these two play so well. the musicianship is at an excellent level, even if the stylings dont suit u altogether.

[gdogus]

Originally posted by frankpop1
yea, the emusic as a company has always been impersonal though. [/B] I don't know about that - I had some trouble during my trial period, and got a lot of prompt, helpful, personal response. Now? Dunno - but I wouldn't count on it.

Even so, and despite all of my grumbling, I decided to stick with it. 40 tracks/mo does seem comparatively limited, but it's still a better deal than elswhere. Recently downloaded Chick Corea & Origin - A Week at the Blue Note (Stretch, 1998; 6 disc set). Excellent "box," and 6 discs for about $9 is pretty good.

[frankiepop]

well, that sounds like an improvement. i cant remember ever getting back more than an auto type computer response. except when a certain cut wouldnt download then they wrote to state, that they checked the download and it was ready. eventually, it downloaded. despite my minor complaint, i am a happy customer. although i am tired of downloading on my dial up, i wish i could buy cd's at comparable prices. i probably am satisfied with the new month by month program.

[gdogus]

I just discovered something that may be useful to you all. Back in what I call "the dark time" - i.e., the period between the announcement of the new policy and its implementation - I found it nearly impossible to download an album successfully. As I complained somewhere above, my EMusic Downlaod manager would sometimes tell me that it had downloaded the album, but the files would be empty on my hard drive. Well, I just reviewed "My EMusic Collection" (under the "My Account" tab on the website). This page lists everything EMusic thinks I've downloaded. Guess what? The albums that didn't download successfully are listed there. According to the new policy, I can download anything on this page without its counting against my monthly download limit. And that is in fact the case, as I've discovered.

Bottom line: if you had trouble downloading stuff in "the dark time," check your EMusic collection page. You may be able to download some or all of it now without any limit. In my case, this amounted to ten albums! :)

[chuckyd4]

Hey G (is it all right if I call you that?)... thanks a lot for the tip... I'm now able to go in, like you said, and grab a whole lot of stuff that wouldn't come through the first time, but that was added to the stuff I had technically already downloaded. I think I got a solid six or seven albums worth of stuff... right now I'm digging a Joe Pass J.J. Johnson duet album.

Actually, amidst all this talk about how badly Emusic has been handling its business lately, it's worth mentioning that it has been great for exactly this reason - I probably never would have spent the 12 bucks on this album, but it is a great set, and it sounds like it may become one of my favorites... I always found Emusic a great place to try out some albums that may not be as critically acclaimed but which feature stellar lineups. In other words, when I'm in the store, *another* Joe Pass album may not really jump out at me, but I find myself going ahead and grabbing whatever sounds mildly interesting at Emusic.

Of course, I guess that will be changing now... and I'll have to be more selective there, too... that's a shame.

[Mike P]

Here is an e-mail that I sent to E-Music:

I have downloaded the CD "Organic Duke" by Scott Hamilton. The second song "Blue Hodge" is defective. I have downloaded it twice with the same results. This happens at 1:28 seconds into the song. Is this something you can fix?
Thank you very much.

Mike P

[frankiepop]

notify them. they may fix.


anybody diggin' on frank kimbrough trio

[Tanager]

Originally posted by frankiepop
notify them. they may fix.


anybody diggin' on frank kimbrough trio

I reviewed his last release, Quickening, in the Record Reviews forum when the disk came out. I loved it.

[Tom Storer]

Originally posted by Nathaniel Catchpole
What'll be more interesting is when their subscribers don't renew, and they go down the pan - see if the reinstate unlimited or go bust. [...] There'll be a 3-6 month transition while people's subs run out, wonder what'll happen when no-one renews and there aren't any new subscribers.

So far it doesn't look like anyone here is thinking of giving up emusic. I think what'll happen is that people will drop out occasionally for two or three months and then come back in when enough new stuff has arrived; meanwhile emusic will probably have more people willing to subscribe knowing they don't have to commit for three months or a year but can drop out after any month.

I think their change in approach will end up working out well for them. With a fixed subscription price and unlimited downloads, the more you downloaded, the less you paid per track. You have to admit that doesn't make much sense from the seller's point of view. Now they have a fixed minimum chunk of the subscription price per track downloaded. And the price per track is still the cheapest you can get outside of illicit file-sharing. I find it hard to be indignant.

[Gary Sisco]

Shit, I could download every night for months and still not get to the stuff they have that I'd like to hear, but wouldn't have time to hear if I did. I don't know if I'm cheating or what, but I passed my 40 (according to them) about 15 tracks ago and am still able to download. Is it an honor system? I tried out of curiosity after their site told me I was done til the 19th. Probably shouldn't make a habit out of it or they'll institute some other kind of policy and screw shit up again.

I won't be unsubscribing unless things go way out of whack there.

[mke]

Possibly a case of rhetoric outpacing technology. They might try to find a way to pin the blame on the consumer, however.

[Tom Storer]

The blame for what?

[mke]

Gary said "Probably shouldn't make a habit out of it or they'll institute some other kind of policy and screw shit up again" and I imagined a scenario in which E-Music responded "Because some people have been abusing the 40 download limit, new measures, etc." When in fact their own technology was to blame.

[chuckyd4]

Well, I hit the 40 track limit the first day of the new policy, and when I tried to grab another album out of curiosity (I guess I don't got that much honor), they told me "no way"... or something to that effect. I have to wait until the 25th for it to renew

[Samuel]

I bailed on 11/6. EMusic was a lot of fun and I got a lot of good-but-not-great music along with a few real eye-openers. Mostly, though, it was a visceral lesson in how few life-changing jazz records there are amidst the many perfectly-good-but-not-Kind-of-Blue. Life's so short . . . .

[Tom Storer]

Just a few life-changing records in a life is OK by me. Having your life change all the time can be exhausting.

[Gary Sisco]

Dig that. I've only actually heard three or four -- okay, maybe ten -- of all the thousands of records I've heard.

There's also tons of non-jazz in there.

[Tanager]

There's a whole thread to be mined on this topic, probably, but in a book through which I was leafing today, the author used an expression along the lines of the "tyranny of the masterpiece," the misconception that only those works deemed to be the truly elite, the best, the most indisputably outstanding are worth our listening and exploring. I agree - finding enjoyment in only those works that reach stratospheric heights of excellence is too myopic for me.

[Noj]

I don't think it is possible to know what the best recordings are without comparing them to lesser works.

I'm done with EMusic for now. I may go back later.

It really made me mad when my computer would freeze up every other download. It looks like the downloading has returned to normal now, I don't read any complaints here.

[Gary Sisco]

Noj -- Good point. You can't the one without the other. There's all kinds of really good records that aren't "masterpieces," much less lifechangers. How many times can one's life change over a record anyway? Seriously, I mean. I used the number 10 above and I'd think for me that would be just about it, all genres, if I'm to use the word "lifechanging" the way it's intended.

[frankiepop]

anybody download the sunny murray and do they have any info on that??????






and there's certainly some hidden gems at emusic:

the art pepper is a great one for completing a collection. a ton of good monk and bill evans. some decent miles and coltrane. an interesting cage tribute. a lil good webern.

one of my favorites for the yr was a jerry granelli release. sun ra had a good one on there too. i really liked a recording by another was a record. 'afternoon tea' by rowe and co was cool as well as a couple of cool cuts by pimmon and fennesz that i found for the eai crowd. i liked zorn's painkillers somewhat too, especially disc 1. the hwang duval duo was good. they did have a good cecil cd. oh yeah, albert aylers 'spiritual unity' ! a classic! joe mcphee also had a couple of good recent releases on emusic that i like.

some of the swing music was phenomenal. i fell in love with marian mcpartland collaberation with chris potter...In My Life. and i downloaded a shit load of dave mckenna's music. also. there a great pass and ella recording. one of my favorite grappelli and a oscar peterson with pass recording that is cool.


some good tom waits music is up there. and there is a great johnny cash recording that was a live radio broadcast from louisiana. along with some good blues... ummm


i mean do u want some recs to help...........

[Tanager]

Originally posted by frankiepop
decent miles and coltrane

I'd argue that the Prestige 1st quintet sides are more than merely "decent."

[Mike P]

CHECK YOUR ACCOUNT. I have to downdoad 7 songs today. Tomorrow my account will refresh to 40 download. November 27th maybe your cut off date as well!

[chuckyd4]

Mike - I think it's based on your original billing date (i.e., whenever in the month you originally signed up)... cause mine has been a different day of the month. I think it's ridiculous that the tracks wouldn't roll over from one month to the next, though; if you pay for 40 tracks in a month, it shouldn't really matter whether you download 80 every other month instead.

[Gary Sisco]

Yeah, but what you are paying for isn't 40 tracks but *up to* 40 tracks. Nothing in the agreement says you're owed 40 tracks per month, and hence no reason to carry them over. It's pretty damned easy to use up 40, any way. I'm still coming in way ahead, moneywise, per CD, and getting to hear a lot of stuff I'd have never bought in regular retail, as I'd be keeping my bread in those cases for jazz and improv. I only very rarely buy a title outside those realms, these days, so it works well for me. At first, I thought it was a pretty cheap deal on their parts, to limit it to 40, but at least for me, not having a high speed connection, it works out fine, in the end.

My rollover date is the 19th of each month, so I'm assuming it's correct that each subscriber's month begins with their original date of subscribing.

[BFrank]

I just noticed that in addition to the $10/40 and $15/65 subs, they have added another level: $20 for 90 downloads.

[Gary Sisco]

Dispos-o-Music:

E-Commerce Report: Music at Your Fingertips, and a Battle Among Sellers

December 1, 2003
By BOB TEDESCHI

COMING to a music download store in 2004: Yo-Yo Ma's
Shostakovich Quartet No. 15 and Bob Dylan's second show at
Amsterdam.

So go the predictions of some music industry executives,
who say that as music labels and retailers compete more
aggressively online, they will offer more obscure titles
and recordings of live performances that could find a
paying audience through downloads but make no financial
sense to distribute on CD's.

This is but one of a handful of trends likely to emerge
next year in the paid digital download arena, industry
executives said. With hundreds of millions of investment
and marketing dollars flowing into the sector, it could be
the most active online commerce category. And with the
activity comes a risk that it could resemble the Internet
bubble of 1999, though on a smaller scale.

The first area of resemblance, analysts and executives
predict, will be in the sheer number of online music stores
that sell downloads, which will continue to build through
the early part of next year, only to contract beneath the
weight of excessive marketing spending and slim profit
margins.

There will be fewer paid download sites running a year from
now than there are today, said Josh Bernoff, an analyst at
Forrester Research, a technology consulting firm.

The reason, Mr. Bernoff said, is that music tracks that are
downloaded digitally generate tiny profits. Apple pays
roughly 70 cents to the labels for each song it sells for
99 cents, Mr. Bernoff said, and, based on Apple's
projections of sales of 100 million songs by April - the
first 12 months of its iTunes service - "you're talking
about $30 million in gross margin, not counting all the
advertising or the costs of running the store."

"That's brutal, and this is the company with the dominant
market share."

Peter Lowe, Apple's director for marketing of applications
and services, agreed that it was hard to make money selling
music downloads. But, he said, iTunes is close to
break-even. Still, he acknowledged that one reason Apple
was in the business was to drive sales of its iPod music
player and to help the company position itself as a
cutting-edge brand.