Joni Mitchell Album Poll Redux

[moneyp]

Here T'is! Go Nuts!

[BFrank]

Hejira - hands down!

[Ron Thorne]

Joné?

Hejira still gets my vote.

[walto]

Thanks for doing this mone. Yer the tower of Pizza!

And I understand full well that my number of remaining requests is now down to 1173.

[Gentle Giant]

Figures, after I spend a half hour posting to the original thread, a new one pops up.

Anyway, it's still:

[Chris D]

That cover photo for "Hejira" was shot on Lake Mendota, which is a block removed from my house.
I have it in an album art frame on the wall of the record room that is closest to the lake.
Still, I voted for "Blue."

[Jazzooo]

This is a tough poll! I voted for Shadows and Light because of the fantastic material and performances, but Blue and Night Ride Home and Travelogue were all close seconds.

[Brian Olewnick]

Chris, in my infancy in Madison (age 3-6), we used to go to Lake Mendota all the time!

btw, I voted for 'Blue'. It's the only JM album I ever owned, but I was pretty attached to it in high school.

[walto]

Go "For the Roses"! Get that other crap OUTTA HERE!


JUDGEMENT OF THE MOON AND STARS (LUDWIG'S TUNE)

No tongue in the bell
And the fishwives yell
But they might as well be mute
So you get to keep the pictures
That don't seem like much
Cold white keys under your fingers
Now you're thinking
"That's no substitute
It just don't do it
Like the song of a warm, warm body
Loving your touch"

In the court they carve your legend
With an apple in its jaw
And the women that you wanted
They get their laughs
Long silk stockings
On the bedposts of refinement
You're too raw
They think you're too raw
It's the judgement of the moon and stars
Your solitary path
Draw yourself a bath
Think what you'd like to have
For supper
Or take a walk
A park
A bridge
A tree
A river
Revoked but not yet cancelled
The gift goes on
In silence
In a bell jar
Still a song ...
You've got to shake your fists at lightning now
You've got to roar like forest fire
You've got to spread your light like blazes
All across the sky
They're going to aim the hoses on you
Show 'em you won't expire
Not till you burn up every passion
Not even when you die
Come on now
You've got to try
If you're feeling contempt
Well then you tell it
If you're tired of the silent night
Jesus, well then you yell it
Condemned to wires and hammers
Strike every chord that you feel
That broken trees
And elephant ivories
Conceal

@1972 BY JONI MITCHELL/BMI

[Dr Dave]

It's the *sound* of Hejira that still compels.

[walto]

There are two or three songs I absolutely adore on "Hejira." But, IMHO, there's a higher pct. of great stuff on "For The Roses."

Some turn to Jesus
And some turn to heroin
Some turn to rambling round
Looking for a clean sky
And a drinking stream
Some watch the paint peel off
Some watch their kids grow up
Some watch their stocks and bonds
Waiting for that big deal
American Dream

[Chris D]

Olewnick,
Who could have guessed you've got some Wiscony in you? That must be the hint of nice that peeks out now and again.
Does anyone remember the absolutely savage review that Rolling Stone, when it still almost mattered, gave to "The Hissing of Summer Lawns"?
Really over the top.
That record's a nice palate cleanser once in a while.

[walto]

Let the Wind Carry Me

Papa's faith is people
Mama she believes in cleaning
Papa's faith is in people
Mama she's always cleaning
Papa brought home the sugar
Mama taught me the deeper meaning
She don't like my kick pleat skirt
She don't like my eyelids painted green
She don't like me staying up late
In my high-heeled shoes
Living for that Rock'n'Roll dancing scene
Papa says "Leave the girl alone, Mother
She's looking like a Movie Queen"

Mama thinks she spoilt me
Papa knows somehow he set me free
Mama thinks she spoilt me rotten
She blames herself
But papa he blesses me
It's a rough road to travel
Mama let go now
It's always called for me
Sometimes I get that feeling
And I want to settle
And raise a child up with somebody
I get that strong longing
And I want to settle
And raise a child up with somebody
But it passes like the summer
I'm a wild seed again
Let the wind carry me



I can't believe it's still just me and Laz! Nobody else ever fall for a blonde in the bleachers?


"For the Roses," baby!

[walto]

In the cookie I read:
Some get the gravy
Some get the gristle
Some get the marrow bone
Some get nothing
Though there's plenty to share.

[Gentle Giant]

Please forgive the possibly ego-driven nature of this post, but shortly after I painstakingly posted this to the original Joni poll thread, the new thread appeared and I'm not sure a lot of people here ever read it. While I'm wondering when walto will stop printing the lyrics to For the Roses, I'm sympathetic to the idea that anyone whose favorite is perhaps an unpopular choice would want to beg for more attention for it. Therefore, while I stand behind my choice of Hejira, and would put Blue 2nd at least as much for its historic impact and deep influence on the genre as for my own appreciation for it, I would hope people would check out or give a enw listen to Ladies of the Canyon, as I think it's groove-to-groove one of the strongest collections of songs she ever put on a single album.

And now, on to the old post:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

'Course now, at this point it's worth noting which albums have not been mentioned - and perhaps why. They are in discographical order.

1. Song to the Seagull - If this was all she did, she'd be remembered for it, but she grew too much too quickly for this to be counted among her best works.

2. Clouds - Ditto. Someone said, perhaps in the other thread, that Joni was a tough broad (in a nice way). True, but there aren't enough balls on this record - and yet she was on the cusp of greatness.

3. Ladies of the Canyon - This should/could be a contender. You've got For Free, which is an amazing song about the purity of the street musician as seen from the eyes of one who "play[s] for fortune and those velvet curtain calls" (with Paul Horn on clarinet); you've got wonderful characters and dramatic situations in Conversation, Rainy Night House, and The Priest; and you've got three classic hits: Big Yellow Taxi, Woodstock, and The Circle Game.

[4. Blue 5. For the Roses 6. Court & Spark]

7. Miles of Aisles - Her first 2-LP live set; nothing revelatory but the sides with the LA Express groove nicely.

8. Hissing of Summer Lawns - Apparently this was one of Prince's favorite albums (note that he titled Morris Day's first album Ice Cream Castles). This is a transition from the pop/jazz of Court & Spark to the darker, sparer Hejira. A few great cuts but some stuff that doesn't work as well.

[9. Hejira]

10. Don Juan's Reckless Daughter - Same ingredients as Hejira but perhaps they were cooked too long. At 16 minutes (and the band doesn't enter until at least 3/4 of the way through), Paprika Plains was an ambitious mistake. Again, a few great cuts but some clunkers, too.

11. Mingus - A noble project, but the production is kind of stiff, given the artists she's working with.

[12. Shadows and Light]

13. Wild Things Run Fast - Rockin' Joni. No thanks.

14. Dog Eat Dog - I think this is a great record. Most people haven't heard it; of those who have, most probably haven't heard it enough. If you can find it used or as a cutout, I definitely recommend it. Michael McDonald does his classic background vox on the opener, and Rod Steiger guests on one track as a televangelist. The Three Great Stimulants is a sublime composition.

15. Chalk Mark in a Rainstorm - This is to Dog Eat Dog what Don Juan is to Hejira. Peter Gabriel, Billy Idol, Tom Petty, Willie Nelson, and Don Henley are among the guests.

[16. Night Ride Home]

17. Turbulent Indigo - This took me a while to get into, but I do like it.

18. Taming the Tiger - Reversing a trend, this is similar to the previous album, yet much better. You have to hear Joni belt the line, "Kiss my ass!"

[19. Both Sides Now 20. Travelogue]



Last edited by Gentle Giant on April-10th-2003 at 09:27 PM

[walto]

"While I'm wondering when walto will stop printing the lyrics to For the Roses..."

I'm not sure, but I don't think I'm quite done yet. I'm reproducing them simply because they're fabulous.

BTW, the over-the-top vibrato on "Ladies of the Canyon" ought to be enough, IMHO, to knock it off any best-of list. Based on how her approach changed over the next few years, I'll bet she'd agree.

[lazarus]

Walter!
You and I!! United we stand!!!
Let´s start The For The Roses Appreciation Society!!
It really is a very beautiful album!!!

[Gentle Giant]

laz, my buddy and musical soulmate (this is the former Jasontis talking, BTW), while I am certainly a fan of For the Roses as well, I think you and walto have to come clean and 'fess up: you like this album best because you can see Joni's naked bum, isn't that right?

[walto]

I heard it in the wind last night
It sounded like applause
Chilly now
End of summer
No more shiny hot nights
It was just the arbutus rustling
And the bumping of the logs
And the moon swept down black water
Like an empty spotlight

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I am a woman of heart and mind
With time on her hands
No child to raise
You come to me like a little boy
And I give you my scorn and my praise
You think I'm like your mother
Or another lover or your sister
Or the queen of your dreams
Or just another silly girl
When love makes a fool of me
After the rush when you come back down
You're always disappointed
Nothing seems to keep you high
Drive your bargains
Push your papers
Win your medals
Fuck your strangers
Don't it leave you on the empty side


------------------------------------------------------------------

Red water in the bathroom sink
Fever and the scum brown bowl
Blue Steel still begging
But it's indistinct
Someone's Hi-Fi drumming Jelly Roll
Concrete concentration camp
Bashing in veins for peace
Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire
Fall into Lady Release
"Come with me I know the way" she says
"It's down, down, down the dark ladder
Do you want to contact somebody first
I mean what does it really matter
You're going to come now
Or you're going to come later"


-------------------------------------------------------------------


The blonde in the bleachers
She flips her hair for you
Above the loudspeakers
You start to fall
She follows you home
But you miss living alone
You can still hear sweet mysteries
Calling you
The bands and the roadies
Lovin' 'em and leavin' 'em
It's pleasure to try 'em
It's trouble to keep 'em
'Cause it seems like you've gotta give up
Such a piece of your soul
When you give up the chase
Feeling it hot and cold
You're in Rock'n'Roll
It's the nature of the race
It's the unknown child
So sweet and wild
It's youth
It's too good to waste


------------------------------------------------------

I mean, come the hell on! Two votes?!?






TWO???

[moneyp]

Originally posted by walto
I mean, come the hell on! Two votes?!?

TWO???

Just please tell us you're out of songs.

[lazarus]

laz, my buddy and musical soulmate (this is the former Jasontis talking, BTW), while I am certainly a fan of For the Roses as well, I think you and walto have to come clean and 'fess up: you like this album best because you can see Joni's naked bum, isn't that right?

Hello Jasontis! Glad to see you back again. I suppose I would have guessed it was you behind that user-name.

Of course I love that picture of Joni. I think the whole cover of the original vinyl-edition is very beatiful indeed, just like the great music and lyrics.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally posted by Gentle Giant

[9. Hejira]

10. Don Juan's Reckless Daughter - Same ingredients as Hejira but perhaps they were cooked too long. At 16 minutes (and the band doesn't enter until at least 3/4 of the way through), Paprika Plains was an ambitious mistake. Again, a few great cuts but some clunkers, too.



I like Hejira, but I actually prefer DJ'sRD, as it has a sunnier atmosphere, but still the best musicians that Joni ever worked with - Jaco,Wayne Shorter etc.

I do agree that Paprika Plains is a mistake - but it's a double album which you can get on one CD and you can program out this track - although the jam at the end is tremendous!

So - I voted for this as overall, it has the most tracks that I really like and is not as depressing as Hejira.

I think ideally, I would make up a favourite album out of parts of Hejira, DJ'sRD, Mingus and Shadows and Light. Mingus is dispopointing - but "the Dry Cleaner from Des Moines" - is a 'must' for any Jazz fan!! :)

[Gentle Giant]

I never really saw Hejira as depressing, or Don Juan as sunny. I think they both have a searching, yearning mood. Don Juan has a lighter opening, with Cotton Avenue, Jericho (which was composed a few years earlier and performed on her first live album), and Talk To Me ("I pissed a tequila anaconda the full length of the parking lot"). But by the time you get to Off Night Backstreet and Silky Veils of Ardor, she's still pining alone in the darkness.

I might note that I was turned on to Joni by Don Juan. I had always dismissed her because of her voice, but in college a kid in my dorm got me high, and sat me down to listen to this album while reading the lyrics. I became a Joni fan that night (and then probably got some ice cream).

[Bruce Lindfield]

"Talk to me" does have jokes about chicken squawking and is mockingly self-deprecating. I think the percussion-heavy centre of the album is quite sunny and has the sound of South America - but I agree that a lot is whistful and yearning.

To me, Hejira is much darker though and has a more black-and-white sound canvas.

Cotton Avenue and Jericho , lead you into a lighter and sunnier sound that breathes more easily - but I always have to skip Paprika Plains - funnily enouh though, her most recent albums tread this 'orchestral' path much more succesfully - maybe it was too early in her career before?

[AntManBee]

Seems that this is an old thread suddenly popping up again. Good, because that prompted another vote for the excellent "For the Roses".

[GoodSpeak]

You missed a big one, Mone: CHALK MARK IN A RAIN STORM

http://www.tralfaz-archives.com/coverart/M/mitchell_chalkf.jpg

Cool Water and My Secret Place are just awesome recordings of her talent.

[AntManBee]

You missed a big one, Mone: CHALK MARK IN A RAIN STORM

It's there, between "Dog Eat Dog" and "Night Ride Home".

[Rob Damen]

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000002KBU.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

But I'm curious ... I've noticed there were five "Don't Like Joni" votes. I'm curious as to what the objections to her are.

Cheers,

Rob

[jazzy mary]

Can someone post the pic. of Joni's naked bum--I haven't seen it. I adore Joni and I think "Miles of Aisles" is great album because it has so many of her wonderful songs--I adore "Woodstock"--My all time fave rock song (that and "Spill the Wine") . Bri, thanks so much for using the initials "JM" now when I search for mentions of me, that'll come up. Don't you realize I'm trying to streamline my search for myself process!? :rolleyes:

[bluenoter]

Can someone post the pic. of Joni's naked bum--I haven't seen it.It's in the liner notes to For the Roses (or at least it was in the liner notes to the LP). I can't find the photo online, and I don't own the album, so I can't scan it in. I remember the photo, though. You're not missing anything, JM; :) it's just a tasteful nude shot from behind--at some distance, IIRC.

[Rob Damen]

Sand,

I found your post confusing. I don't know if your quoting someone in the thread, someone outside the thread or which points refer to yourself, or when any of this was. I get the don't like part in a very general sense, but that's about it.

Cheers,

Rob

[Chris D]

(Quoting someone else unnamed...)
I agree! I just don't get Joni Mitchell. She can't
write a melody to save her life.


"Both Sides Now." "The Circle Game." "Woodstock." "All I Want." "Carey." "You Turn Me On (I'm a Radio)." "Help Me." "Free Man in Paris." "Raised on Robbery."

Nope. No melodies there.

[Gentle Giant]

Still Hejira, but I'm surprised to find after all these years that her most commercially successful, Court and Spark, is also easily one of her best.

Hissing has always been underrated and Mingus overrated, IMO.

[lazarus]

My favorite Joni albums are the first five (+ "Hejira") with "For The Roses" as number one but I love all her albums up to "Don Juan´s Reckless Daughter". I also like "Mingus" and "Shadows and Light" but they made me a little disappointed. "Wild Things Run First" was the first Joni Mitchell album that I didn´t liked when it was released but I saw her in concert the same year and parts of that concert was really great. Especially when she was alone at the stage.

I have all Joni´s albums from the 80´s and 90´s too and there are some very good things on all of them but they don´t come close her early albums imo.

I think Joni was at her best before she decided that she was some kind of jazz artist. Her very unique and extremely talented version of "folkmusic" on her early albums are imo among the greatest north american music ever. Soooo beautiful!!

[Borat Pri Hagafen]

Two new members have joined "The Joni Mitchell Sucks Anonymous ".


I'm not anonymous, but i voted that way. I thought it would be fairly obnoxious to post my views on a thread like this, but it was one of the choices. Carry on.

[walto]

My favorite Joni albums are the first five (+ "Hejira") with "For The Roses" as number one but I love all her albums up to "Don Juan´s Reckless Daughter". I also like "Mingus" and "Shadows and Light" but they made me a little disappointed. "Wild Things Run First" was the first Joni Mitchell album that I didn´t liked when it was released but I saw her in concert the same year and parts of that concert was really great. Especially when she was alone at the stage.

I have all Joni´s albums from the 80´s and 90´s too and there are some very good things on all of them but they don´t come close her early albums imo.

I think Joni was at her best before she decided that she was some kind of jazz artist. Her very unique and extremely talented version of "folkmusic" on her early albums are imo among the greatest north american music ever. Soooo beautiful!!

You and I are in complete agreement, bro.

[Gentle Giant]

Night Ride Home was the last Joni Mitchell I got until the last couple of years.
I believe it was the way her voice had aged that did not appeal to me at the time and that I consquently did not listen that much to the music and the lyrics.
I don't have a problem with travologue and more recent recordings.

What do you think about how her voice has aged, matured and and developed over the years?

Two new members have joined "The Joni Mitchell Sucks Anonymous ".
I liked Dog Eat Dog and Chalk Mark, but Night Ride Home was a welcome return to form. It remains a very compelling and much overlooked release.

I wish her voice was still as crystalline as on Cactus Tree, but that's too much to hope for; not only time has taken its toll, she's also smoked a million cigarettes over the years. That said, I like her recent orchestral albums because she simply knows how to sing and therefore has matched the arrangements and her delivery to the new qualities of her voice.

Wild Things Run Fast is the one Joni album I really don't care to listen to.

Of her earliest works, Song to a Seagull, Ladies of the Canyon, and Blue are essential masterpieces to me.

[Chris D]

Man, I liked "Wild Things Run Fast." I listened to that and "Nightfly" back to back a lot in early '83 in between Clash and PiL sides.

The Chinese cafe song, interpolating "Unchained Melody," that was genius. And the Larry Klein connection -- sonically and romantically (at the time) -- really gave her a kick start.

[picsou]

Maybe this will be redundant, but that is OK. :D
I was impressed by her guitar playing when I saw her play on the DVD "A Life Story". Made me appreciate better her work from the last 10 years or so. It is so beautiful just watching, no tons of artifacts,...
Still, my favorite are Blue and Hejira. Used to go to sleep to that (and other) music played in the living-room which was just next to my bedroom.

[Sand]

Damn, your postings are put on auto pilot, picsou

[Gentle Giant]

Lately, when I'm in the mood for Joni, I've been pulling out later ones, like Night Ride Home and Taming the Tiger. Really good stuff when you let your own expectations down and experience it fresh.

Of course, I also listened to For the Roses recently and was as enchanted as ever. Her new one will be a Starbucks exclusive, I hear.

[Freetoojazz]

This is a tough poll! I voted for Shadows and Light because of the fantastic material and performances, but Blue and Night Ride Home and Travelogue were all close seconds.

I share your point of view! I also vote for Shadows and Light. I don't know the Blue and Night Ride Home, but like you, I think that Travelogue is all close second.

[bruce massey]

My favorite Joni albums are the first five (+ "Hejira") with "For The Roses" as number one but I love all her albums up to "Don Juan´s Reckless Daughter". I also like "Mingus" and "Shadows and Light" but they made me a little disappointed. "Wild Things Run First" was the first Joni Mitchell album that I didn´t liked when it was released but I saw her in concert the same year and parts of that concert was really great. Especially when she was alone at the stage.

I have all Joni´s albums from the 80´s and 90´s too and there are some very good things on all of them but they don´t come close her early albums imo.

I think Joni was at her best before she decided that she was some kind of jazz artist. Her very unique and extremely talented version of "folkmusic" on her early albums are imo among the greatest north american music ever. Soooo beautiful!!


Joni greatness is in her constant drive to grow and explore. She didn't decide to become a jazz artist, Mingus approached her and gave her the songs Joni 1-5.

I have always loved her as a total artist. Great songwriting, intelligent lyrics and incredible vocalizations.

And after revisiting For The Roses, she has a great ass!

[gonzo]

i picked mingus but i love them all. the new one, sept. 25th

[Hot Ptah]

That cover photo for "Hejira" was shot on Lake Mendota, which is a block removed from my house.
I have it in an album art frame on the wall of the record room that is closest to the lake.
Still, I voted for "Blue."

I lived in Madison from 1974-78 and 1981-82, and visit sometimes now. You are lucky to be there!

While it is undeniably commercial, I have always thought that Court and Spark was Joni's strongest album.

I know a couple who named their child Herija, after the Joni Mitchell album, which they misspelled on the birth certificate.

[Chris D]

Drop a line if you visit, Hot Ptah. I'll treat at Mickie's Dairy Bar.

[Hot Ptah]

Drop a line if you visit, Hot Ptah. I'll treat at Mickie's Dairy Bar.

I'll take you up on that, and hopefully Richard Davis can join us!