The JC Group Giveaway/Review - Steve Kuhn - Promises Kept

[Lois Gilbert]

http://stevekuhnmusic.com/speakeasycd.jpg


To celebrate the release of Steve Kuhn's Promises Kept on ECM, Steve Kuhn and ECM have provided 10 copies for your listening pleasure and review.

To quote Bob Blumenthal in the liner notes:
"Kuhn, a pianist who has displayed many and diverse strengths in a career now in its fifth decade, has reached a point where melody and feeling have taken center stage...In giving full reign to his emotions, Kuhn has created both his most personal and his most beautiful recording."

Steve Kuhn with Strings... Kuhn's lyrical improvisations and the bold contours of his melodies - some old, some new - are set against nuanced string arrangements, by Kuhn and by Carlos Franzetti, who is also the orchestrator on <b>Promises Kept</b>. The album is both a 'departure' from Kuhn's work of recent years and an extension of projects begun at least 40 years ago."

I have to tell you folks, that everyone I have played this CD for (including moi) either has held their hand to their heart or has cried. It a stunning record.

Please visit Steve Kuhn Music (http://stevekuhnmusic.com) and go to his recordings page and list to the MP3s of the record. If it's not your cup of tea that's ok, but if it is I would suggest you email asap at lois@jazzcorner.com and please include your address and screen name and real name. I'm sorry, but this not open to people who scored CDs in the past and never did a review. I hope you understand.
_____________________

On another note: pun intended - we'll also be giving away a pair of tickets to see The Steve Kuhn Trio with David Finck and Kenny Washington as well as Steve with a full string ensemble on April 29 at Merkin Hall. But the ticket giveaway will be sometime next week. (You probably received my email by now re the concert and the CD.

Enjoy and thank you for your support. This is open to Europe, US and Canada only

[Mike Schwartz]

I am receiving one through a contact at the label who I've done radio projects with. Will post some impressions after ample listening, will probably have Mr. Kuhn on the weekly radio/webcast in the relatively near future which will post at 'Jazz News' when the time comes.

[Lois Gilbert]

I have 2 left - for those of you who sent me pms - you must send me an email at lois@jazzcorner.com (see reviews)

Gentle Giant and Dr. Dave??? I haven't gotten email from you with your address etc

[Boris Badenov]

Lois -

Did you get my E-mail?

Thanks,
Boris

[Lois Gilbert]

They're all gone and I'll post the list of "reviewers/winner in record reviews

Thanks everyone

[Lois Gilbert]

Thanks everyone who wanted to review this one, but we only have 10 cds. Let's figure May 15 barring any unforseen cirumstances


1. "mke"
BELGIUM

2."jazzy mary"

Brooklyn, NY

3. "Claude"
Fredericton NB
CANADA

4. "Pete C"
Brooklyn, NY

5. "Dr. Dave"
Boston MA

6. "Gentle Giant"
Boston, MA

7. "singinsumo"
Ocean City NJ

8. "relyles"
Bloomfield, CT

9. "Boris Badenov"
Washington, DC

10. CRAWJO
Scotia, NY

[Ron Thorne]

Damn, that was fast!

[SinginSumo]

Damn, that was fast!

Worry not.

[Mike Schwartz]

Here's the AMG review!


Promises Kept
Artist Steve Kuhn String Ensemble
Album Title Promises Kept
Date of Release Apr 27, 2004
AMG Rating ****1/2


The lineup on Promises Kept says it all: Steve Kuhn with strings. Kuhn is a jazz pianist whose recordings may have been out of the jazz mainstream for most of the five decades his career has spanned, but it hardly matters. Kuhn's style is signature, though his explorations have taken him to many different terrains in the world of jazz, from knotty post-bop to pointillism and modalism and through the nefarious world of 20th century vanguard composition to the place where listeners find him now: the place of a supreme and unabashed lyricism that is as sophisticated and forward-looking as it is historical and inclusive. Bassist David Finck is also present here; his trademark loping style has been a fixture on Kuhn's recordings since 1986. Conducted and orchestrated by Carlos Franzetti, this 15-piece string orchestra offers a lush yet poignant collaborative sphere for Kuhn to work his considerable harmonic magic. Kuhn composed all ten pieces. Some are well-known items in his oeuvre; others were written specifically for this recording. They vary in range, mood, texture, and depth of field. The album opens with "Lullaby," its sheer nocturnal elegance kissed by quiet joy. The bittersweet emotionalism of his classic "Life's Backward Glance" becomes a credo for the entire album. Beginning with a series of brooding washes by the cellos and tempered by a pastoral reflective series of chords and ostinatos, it becomes the haunted song of reverie as tempered by a sense of the fleeting present. "Trance" offers an elongated string introduction, whereby the feeling of time's suspension pervades in the violas and cellos until the repetitive, songlike melody line slips into the middle between them and the violins caress the entire mix. Here romanticism and jazz entwine in the body of Kuhn's harmonic structures, shimmering through a luxuriant mirror of musical history. And the title track, an homage to Kuhn's Hungarian immigrant parents, waltzes and glides between Old Europe and a far more romantic vision of America than exists today. It is formal and carries within it a wistful kind of romanticism that is seldom heard in modern music. In sum, this is one of the finest recordings Kuhn has ever issued. Simply put, for all the decades spent adventuring on the boundaries where various traditions blur, the pianist and composer articulate direct emotion as the most effective communicator here, no matter what terrain is navigated in form. A breathtaking and intimate outing, this is a career-topping effort. — Thom Jurek

[Peterdubya]

I got the CD last week and have listened to it twice at home.
It's really beautiful all the way through. It features a great Kuhn melody called "Trance" and a couple of other of his tunes that I am familiar with.
This is a great first thing in the morning CD.

[Boris Badenov]

I got this this morning. My first review copy ever! I'm so excited! I was going to listen to it while walking over my lunch break, but I'm waiting for a call, so I put it on for a second in my office. I will write more later, but I can report that a co-worker of mine who sits outside my office popped her head in during the first cut to say how nice it was. I agree.

[Gentle Giant]

Just so's I'm clear: is this the place where reviews are supposed to go? I've put in a couple of listens and I think after one more, with pen in hand, I'll be able to submit a review.

[Lois Gilbert]

Yes please post your reviews here, Pete C (he scored the free tickets) is going to see Steve tomorrow as is I, so we'll give you a report I"m sure.

[Pete C]

“Promises Kept” presents pianist Steve Kuhn with a string section arranged and conducted by Carlos Franzetti. Kuhn’s bass player of choice, David Finck, also appears. This project was apparently a dream of long standing for Kuhn, as the full string treatment is for many musicians. My own impressions of this album are greatly influenced by a general lack of interest in this type of project, but that is tempered by a great admiration for Kuhn as a pianist and composer. Franzetti’s string settings are clearly in the 19th Century grand Romantic tradition, something I don’t even care for in classical music.

Steve Kuhn is one of the perennially underrated (or more precisely underknown) jazz pianists, who early on had the distinction of playing with the original John Coltrane quartet, and with Stan Getz in an amazing rhythm section that also included Scott LaFaro and Roy Haynes. Throughout his career Kuhn has proven himself one of the top interpreters of standards in post-Evans interactive trio settings as well as a subtle interpreter of his own lyrical and moody melodies. The latter provide the material for the present CD.

Franzetti is clearly masterful in the mode that Kuhn and he have decided was appropriate for this presentation, and having seen the material performed live and seen and heard the reactions of the audience I’d say that the arrangements are indeed successful within that language. I however prefer a less lush sound, and I do feel that Kuhn’s music might have been better served by sparer arrangements (such as those that Bill Russo wrote for Konitz using a string quartet), or by string charts that were more cognizant of 20th century dissonances (as in Sauter’s arrangements for Getz).

The album features a number of compositions that Kuhn has recorded, sometimes multiply, over the years, as well as several new pieces. “Trance,” one of his most memorable compositions, was the title tune of his first ECM album, a stellar outing with Steve Swallow and Jack DeJohnette (plus Sue Evans on percussion). “Oceans in the Sky,” another personal favorite, is the title tune of a brilliant but obscure trio album with Miroslav Vitous and Aldo Romano. I prefer the earlier versions. On this album Kuhn himself leans more in a Romantic direction for his interpretations of his pieces.

It’s nice to see Kuhn back on ECM, and this album may introduce his playing and compositions to a wider audience. I’m hoping this will lead to a Kuhn entry in ECM’s Rarum series.

I do wonder why such a conservative and not particularly challenging setting would be sought by a usually forward-thinking musician like Kuhn. What Kuhn ended up with is a plush pillow. I think more interaction between the piano and strings would ultimately have provided a much more compelling, rather than "easy," listening experience.

Franzetti, by the way, did excellent string and horn arrangements for David Sanchez’s beautiful album of songs from Latin America, Obsesion. In that context, Franzetti's charts worked much better for me.

At Kuhn’s Merkin Hall concert, before the “Promises Kept” portion of the program, we got to see Kuhn's other side in a short trio set of standards and jazz standards by with Finck and Kenny Washington (his usual drummer in recent years has been Billy Drummond). The audience was full of musicians and industry people.

I'm pretty familiar with Kuhn's work over the years, and I've seen him live a number of times (including his great 80s trio with Ron Carter & Al Foster). I'll be interested in the responses of those who are less familiar with Kuhn's work, and the responses of those who are more predisposed to lush string settings (like my friend Sumo).

For those interested in pursuing Kuhn's other recordings, I'd highly recommend:

Oceans in the Sky, recently rereleased in the U.S. by Sunnyside. One of the most compelling piano trio recordings I own.

Trance (unfortunately only available as an expensive Japanese ECM).

Life's Magic (with Carter & Foster) - Out of print, but still available as a remainder from some online retailers. More straight ahead than the prior two. It includes another version of "Trance."

Live at Maybeck Recital Hall (solo).

Kuhn has several recent albums with his working trio of David Finck & Billy Drummond. I haven't heard these, but I've seen the trio live.

[mke]

I still haven't recieved this album. Will I be getting it at all?

[Gentle Giant]

Thanks, Pete, for such complete background on Kuhn.

Here's my review.

Piano with strings. "Beautiful." These are words and concepts that scare me. Especially in a jazz or instrumental context. Too far in one direction, and you get Zamfir-esque new agey noodling and elevator music. Too far in another direction, you get a lot of same-sounding tunes with little variety in mood, tempi, or dynamics. Done just right, and it promises to be amazing.

Promises Kept, by Steve Kuhn with Strings, is a lovely album of 10 songs, some of which veer toward the directons described above, but on the whole truly is a remarkable achievement. Where the piano is always earthly, the strings are often celestial. In the right balance, this is very effective; occasionally, however, the strings add little and make me wish for a solo piano.

At the outset, I should note that this release very much feels like an autumnal work. Kuhn, nearing 70, offers a highly introspective set of compositions. Many of the titles themselves have a late-in-life perspective: Life's Backward Glance, Promises Kept, Nostalgia, Adagio. In the liner notes, Kuhn himself is quoted as saying, "As I've gotten older, gone through deaths and losses, as well as open heart surgery...I find myself responding more emotionally."

Lullaby opens the album, and instantly there is an amazing rapport between the piano and the strings. Here the strings are not just dressing; at times, they seem even to be set as a call and response vehicle. Gentle, yet dark, like the cradle rocking precariously in the treetop.

Life's Backward Glance has bassist David Finck blending in well with the strings. Too well, in fact. I would like him to stand out a bit more, like he does on Trance. On that track, orchestrator Carlos Franzetti follows Kuhn's lead, and wisely stays out of the way for long stretches. As the tempo accelerates, the strings stay fairly constant, providing an effective tension.

In Morning Dew, the strings, for the first time on the CD, take on too much of a soundtrack feel, going too far afield of what Kuhn is doing.

On the title track, the strongs perform a short but compelling into that almost suggests a seascape. Kuhn takes over solo and is soon rejoined by the strings in close conversation as Finck's bowed bass skips along. Towards the end, Kuhn emerges solo again, his playing very crisp.

Adagio is simply gorgeous. There may be more to say about it, but it won't get us any closer to its essence. Suffice to say, this is perhaps the single most successful track on a very winning CD.

Celtic Princess I found too new agey.

On Nostalgia, Kuhn's long lines trot along jauntily. Here, the strings are far more potentious than the piano, and for the first time threaten to overtake Kuhn. This is one example where I would have preferred solo piano.

In the intro to Oceans in the Sky, Finck, the string player, and maybe even Kuhn pluck and scrape their strongs in a funky, mildly frenetic fashion. Kuhn's left hand keeps that psychotension going, as themes and melodies work ever skyward. Overall, the strings don't add much, but neither do they detract.

The album closes with Pastorale, a George Winston-y title that ends the album on a lovely, if not particularly depthful, note.

In sum, Promises Kept is an album that truly is beautiful - yet not sweet - in all the best aspects of that term. Only a couple of tracks really didn't work so well for me, but Kuhn's playing is masterful throughout, and the sound quality is absolutely stunning. I listened through headphones and felt like I was at Symphony Hall. Highly recommended.

[jazzy mary]

Wow, GG your review is really insightful, well thought out,complete and wonderful reading, to boot. I'm so glad I read your review before I wrote mine. Truth to tell, I've been having some real problems with this album. I've played it about 6 times but just cannot get with it. It's by turns turning me off, making me feel like I'm at a spa getting a massage (not a bad thing--but the spa music is not what I think of as good music) or making me feel dreamy and possibly moved. Your review has given me new insight and now I want to listen again with "new " ears. Thanks so much!

[jazzy mary]

Pete, your review was wonderful too. I too thank you for so much background on Steve. Your use of the word "romantic" is along the lines of my discomfort with this album. Both of you have really given me something to ruminate on and I hope I can write a review even one-tenth as insightful. I won't be able to.

[Gentle Giant]

JM, keep in mind that a review needn't be positive. Not every work resonates the same way with people. I felt I had a responsibility, as did Pete, to explain at the outset any prejudices I had, and to let my opinions stand against that backdrop.

Also, after listening casually a few times I decided to sit down in a room alone at night, listening through headphones. Putting that total attention to it really made a difference. This isn't an album to accompany dinner, house-cleaning, or even making love. This is for taking a time out with yourself. I believe that at its best (Adagio, Trance, Lullaby, Promises Kept, Oceans in the Sky) the album can be truly transcendent. That's half the album, and only a couple of tracks did I lose interest in. That's more than enough for a thumbs up for me.

[Boris Badenov]

After 4-5 listens, I would give this four stars out of five. I would agree with Gentle Giant's use of the word "autumnal" to describe the mood of the CD. There is a feeling of summing up going on here, and on the whole, while I like this disc a good deal, it makes me want even more to go back to Kuhn's previous output to see what led up to this point.

I haven't had the chance or the inclination (or even the vocabulary) to try to break this down track by track, and generally agree with Gentle Giant and Pete C's characterization of the individual tracks as they relate to each other BUT I would emphatically disagree that the strings provide a "plush pillow" or that any of the tracks are "new-agey" or "George-Winstonish." I suggest rather that the apprpriate analogy is to Paul Desmond's crack that he deserved a special award for "quietness". That being said, I might have asked for a little more variety in dynamics and approach and the track which Gentle describes has having a "frenetic" quality to it is most welcome in this regard (I think it's the 8th of the 10 tracks).

I'd recommend this CD to fans of Art Pepper's "Winter Moon" and/or Kenny Wheeler's "Angel Song." While it's certainly not exactly like either of them, it has a similar contemplativeness that I find attractive. I wouldn't want my whole listening diet to consist of recordings like these but I'm glad I have them nevertheless!

[Peterdubya]

Boris, Pete, Gentle, I agree with all of you.
It's like eating a bowl of Parfait, it's sweet, light and tasty, and there are some things you really like about it, but you don't want to eat it all the time.
Ya gotta have some meat, some protein, a little grease too!!!

[crawjo]

My review of "Promises Kept":

I hesitate to do this, because many people have obviously been moved by this album, so anyone reading this please don't think (not that you would) that this is the final word on this. It's just my take.

This album really disappointed me. I was intrigued by the concept, because I like string ensembles and had heard many positive things about Steve Kuhn's work. But I would not describe this album as beautiful. I think it certainly strives for beauty, but what it ends up achieving, to my ears, is what I would call "precious." This album is, rather self-consciously, "precious." Going further, I'd say that it is overly-precious. To be sure, there are moments of beauty here, but they are just that: moments. Overall, what I found was a discouraging homogeneity of sound. One track blended into another, and I began to feel that the music was just going back over the same territory over and over and over again. On repeated listenings, every time it faded into the background. Tonight I listened to it again on the headphones, and I was trying to place what I was hearing. I felt like I had heard this music before. I pictured myself browsing through some gift shop in Vermont, with homemade jewelry and various trinkets on display, and this was the music playing in the background. I felt that the orchestrations were rather maudlin, and Kuhn's playing lacked invention. I did, however, find that David Finck's work on the double-bass added some much-needed texture to the overall sound.

All in all, this album is too finished, too "perfect" in its conception and execution. It is music without a pulse. Two stars out of five.

Sorry for the negative review, and again, please remember that it's just one guy's opinion, but I felt I should share my impressions.

[relyles]

At the outset I should state two things. First, I am fairly new to the music of Steve Kuhn. I have only heard one or two of his previous trio recordings and several of his sideman appearances. I enjoyed everything I heard, but Kuhn is not a musician that I have investigated thoroughly. Second, I probably should confess that I have not listened to many jazz with strings recordings. I do not have any prejudices against the use of strings in jazz. I just have had limited exposure.

With this in mind I did my best to listen to this disc with an open mind and, possibly more importantly, open ears. I listened to the disc several times since receiving it with the hope that repeated listens would reveal the subtle treasures of the disc. Unfortunately, I have been unable to become completely engaged with this recording.

The liner notes make it clear that on this project Kuhn wanted to focus on the melodies of the compositions. To that extent I can acknowledge a certain “prettiness” or lushness to the overall sound. However, to these ears the lack of any edge or significant amount of improvisation and the unvarying mood made this a less than stimulating listening experience.

I feel guilty giving a less than favorable evaluation of an artist’s heartfelt work in a public format – especially since I have no musical ability or even knowledge of the technical aspects of the music myself. It is also very possible that my lack of exposure to similar projects and my somewhat different listening preferences have predisposed me to not being capable of fully appreciating the music. It’s possible, but after several listens, for me this disc is not much more than light, unobtrusive background music.

[SinginSumo]

Add me to the majority position here. I liked this album enough to position it on my early long list for best albums of 2004. A few words kept coming to mind as I have listened this disc: reflective, emotive, poignant, exquisite. For me it is best played at night, in utter darkness. This is stark yet heartfelt. Unlike Pete, I preferred its lushness (but this is simply a matter of personal tastes). Those that enjoyed Art Pepper's Winter Moon would probably go for this album though Promises Kept is edgier.

A fine, fine album.

[Mike Schwartz]

Just booked Mr. Kuhn on the weekly radio/webcast 05/23...see Jazz News thread for details

[mke]

The postman handed me the album this morning.

[claude]

Apologies for being late with this, but a combination of factors (late getting CD & volume of work) didn't leave me with much time for a good listen.

I had been listening to Promises Kept at the office and while it was nice, it didn't really get to me. However, last night I had some quiet time and was able to sit down and listen to this closely and I have to say my opinion has changed dramatically.

I am not equipped to comment on the music in any technical sense, so I will comment more in terms of the emotional feel and general impressions. While this CD could be used as background music at a dinner etc. quite successfully, I found that it really hits home upon closer listening. I'm having a hard time articulating exactly what it is that affected me so much, whatever words I come up with don't quite sum it up. The disk is certainly not about technical wizardry or adrenaline pumping type of emotional impact (like much of the music that I have been listening to lately). However, if you can get past the lack of fireworks and listen for the obvious emotion that goes into each note it will have an impact.

I enjoyed all of the tracks, but standouts for me were trance and Oceans in the sky. Overall, I would recommend this to just about anyone with a caveat for those who are listening to a lot of avant-garde/free jazz (or whatever the current accepted title is) that this is not "in your face" music and it requires a more contemplative mood to really hear imvho.

Hope my words make some sense. Thanks to ECM & Steve Kuhn for the opportunity to hear this music (for free) and to write about it.

[Gentle Giant]

claude's experience closely mirrors my own. I think there's enough inherent drama and tension in many of the pieces, however, that keep it from being pleasant background music, and I'd have to be having some particularly dour dinner guests to want to play this while eating. :)

[claude]

I'd have to be having some particularly dour dinner guests to want to play this while eating. :)


You haven't met the people that we tend to have over for dinner :D

[Pete C]

standouts for me were trance and Oceans in the sky.

Two of my favorite Kuhn compositions too.

[Mike Schwartz]

Trance, Ocean In The Sky, and 2 other compositions on this new one are on the 1996 ECM piano trio CD "Remembering Tomorrow"

[Bill Barton]

Well, not part of the "group" and an infrequent visitor to these parts recently due to existing in "survival mode," but I have to add that I love this CD!!!!!

Franzetti has provided backdrops and foregrounds for Kuhn's artistry fully as evocative as Gary McFarland's in The October Suite .

[mke]

Overall, I would recommend this to just about anyone with a caveat for those who are listening to a lot of avant-garde/free jazz (or whatever the current accepted title is) that this is not "in your face" music and it requires a more contemplative mood to really hear imvho.
You could also warn fans of swinging jazz that there is no swing to be found either.

General question: I asked LeMo yesterday if he could think of any other jazz pianist + strings albums and he, despite his undisputedly encyclopaedic knowledge, couldn't (although Kuhn seems to have done another one of these?), so I was wondering if this is a common format (in the "with strings" genre). It seems to me more easily succesful than saxophone or trumpet+strings because

- classical string players are perhaps more used to playing with piano than with saxophone or trumpet as soloists
- very broadly, the sound of jazz piano is less different from the sound of classical piano than that of jazz saxophone/trumpet is from classical saxophone/trumpet.

[jazzy mary]

Sorry for being a little late with this. I think the reason I've hesitated in reviewing this is because I just did not like this cd and I feel bad about that. I tried and tried to get into this cd. I must have played it about 10 times, but the songs just kept sounding the same. Finally, I sat down and decided to listen to it, totally concentrated, from start to finish but by the time I got to "Oceans in the Sky", I just couldn't take it anymore.

I would have to say my impression is very, very much the same as Crawjo's. Instead of a gift shop in Vermont, I kept visualizing that I was at a spa (although I'd probably jump off the massage table if this music kept up). Believe me, "spa music" is the last thing you want your music to sound like if you're an artist. I read the press release which came with the album and I wonder where is, even a shadow, the pianist who played with Miles and the other jazz greats? Mr. Kuhn's resume is impressive and I must admit I am not very familiar with his music but this album was well, frankly, boring. I can't even say if the piano playing was well done or if the bass was good--because I just didn't care. I found the music so homogenous (thanks, Crawjo) that I really think I couldn't really even hear it anymore--it was just one same sound after another.

I am a HUGE fan of strings with a jazz artist IF they are done correctly--see Clifford Brown w/ Strings and Charlie Parker with Strings (both among my all time favorites). Maybe the issue was the arrangments of the strings. Maybe you need a Neil Hefti or a Mitch Miller to arrange strings--someone who understands the jazz idiom in relation to strings. Mr. Franzetti has talent,that is clear. I think the medium for him would be film. Many of the string arrangments had a "film score" feel to me.

There is not even a scintilla of swing in this cd. Is it jazz--NO?? Classical? I don't know but I can tell you it's no Stravinsky! I guess I like "third stream" music ok--if Gil Evans or Maria Schneider are considered "third stream" but please, for heaven's sake, let it be interesting and engaging!

I'm sorry I didn't like this cd, and, as Crawjo said, it is just my opinion. I know many of you did like it. But I have to be honest. Thanks for the opportunity to review the cd, Lois.

[Pete C]

I am a HUGE fan of strings with a jazz artist IF they are done correctly--see Clifford Brown w/ Strings and Charlie Parker with Strings (both among my all time favorites). Maybe the issue was the arrangments of the strings. Maybe you need a Neil Hefti or a Mitch Miller to arrange strings--someone who understands the jazz idiom in relation to strings.

Mary, The Hefti arrangements for Brownie get mixed reviews. I like them. However, the almost universal feeling about the Bird dates are that they are good IN SPITE of the charts. Mitch Miller did not arrange those, he played English horn on them. Jimmy Carroll arranged the first ("Just Friends") session, and I don't know if he really understood "the jazz idiom in relation to strings." I'm SURE Mitch Miller didn't.

While I was generally negative about the album, I don't think you can judge the results by a standard of "swinging" jazz. Franzetti does indeed understand orchestration in relation to jazz, and you should definitely check out the David Sanchez album I mentioned above. Personally, I think Kuhn erred in underplaying his jazz chops.

[jazzy mary]

Thanks for the clarification re: the Bird w/ strings. I think the Brownie album has so much feeling in it in re: the strings. Bird's too. My heart soars when I hear them, my heart always sank when I listened to Steve's cd.

I wasn't judging this album by a swing quotient. It's not meant to be a "swinging" session. And, even as little as I know of Steve's ouvre, I wouldn't be looking at his music if I were looking for a "swinging" session. I was just saying that I didn't feel this album could be called "jazz" nor could it be called "classical". And, please, don't anyone give me that stuff about "oh, let's not label, labels are bad...blah, blah". Sometimes one needs labels. Is this "third stream" music? I guess so, all be it boring third stream.

[Gentle Giant]

JM, I completely respect your review, and I don't think you should ever have to apologize for giving a thoughtful and honest opinion. And I'm not saying this is the case with you, but it's certainly happened to me in the past that sometimes I listen for something I'm hoping will be there and when it isn't, I'm disappointed. That's the danger of bringing expectations into a first listening. There's your agenda and then there's the artist's agenda, and you have to know which is always going to win out. Again, I'm not saying this is what happened to you, it just came to mind when I read your review and subsequent posts.

Personally, I really love the drummer Bill Bruford, and his jazz group Earthworks has put out some great CDs over the years (especially recently, with the addition of Tim Garland on sax). But on first listen I'm usually a bit let down because I've always got his 70s work with King Crimson going through my brain, and I'm hoping he'll kick out with some heavy playing and soloing. But no, Bruford actually has higher aspirations than that, and after a couple more listens I'm usually able to meet him there and appreciate his work on his terms.

So part of where my review came from is sitting down and thinking, OK, what did Kuhn want to do here, and was he successful at it? Not, how does this stack up with his previous work, or other jazz with strings, or any preconceived notions on my part of what it should be. As my review hopefully makes clear, I don't think he was completely successful with what he set out to do, but a number of the performances definitely moved me.

[jazzy mary]

GG, I understand where you're coming from. I actually didn'thave any pe-conceived notions for Steve. I was, of course, familiar with ECM and their "type of music". Does anyone remember Eberhard Weber's album "Afternoon of Chloe" (or something like that.) I remember I adored that in college and was all into it also I think because I loved the Rohmer film "Chloe in the Afternoon". So, I figured the music would be "reflective". But I don't think the album was successful, mainly because of the homogenity of the sound and the uninspiring playing and string arrangments.

The apology thing is because I'm a woman and therefore, always want to please everyone. I'll feel bad if Steve reads my review. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. I'm a wimp.

FWIW, I love King Crimson.

[crawjo]

Does ECM have a "type of music"? I have a number of recent ECM releases by guys like Paul Bley, Evan Parker, Dave Holland, Enrico Rava, and, now, Steve Kuhn. Seems like a pretty diverse group to me.

[crawjo]

The apology thing is because I'm a woman and therefore, always want to please everyone. I'll feel bad if Steve reads my review. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. I'm a wimp.


Don't worry, JM, it's not just a woman thing. :o

[relyles]

Don't worry, JM, it's not just a woman thing. :o

I did not apologize per se, but I did express and do honestly feel a small amount of guilt for getting the benefit of hearing the disc for free and then posting less than favorable comments. But the truth is that my reaction to the music was very similar to Jazzy Mary's. I tried listening to it several times in the hopes of appreciating it, but there was a sameness to the music that diminished my ability to get engaged.

[Gentle Giant]

I'm a wimp.

FWIW, I love King Crimson.

Wimps don't dig King Crimson!

And while I understand the guilt thing, the deal wasn't "write a good review, get a free CD"; it was "we'll give you a free CD for helping getting the word out." As they say about publicity, there's no such thing as bad press, just don't spell his name wrong.

[gnhrtg]

Does ECM have a "type of music"? I have a number of recent ECM releases by guys like Paul Bley, Evan Parker, Dave Holland, Enrico Rava, and, now, Steve Kuhn. Seems like a pretty diverse group to me.

Jack DeJohnette thought there was an "ECM sound" and that it had a significant effect on his approach to playing and composing (from an interview in Downbeat a decade or so ago, can't dig it up now, sorry). This was more notable earlier and there might have been some dilution and certain exceptions. I do think there still is an "ECM sound" above and beyond what other labels could be said to have an idiosyncratic "sound." It's a prevailing sound and mood, I think, thus the switch.

[Mike Schwartz]

I have listened to the CD numerous times, probably somewhere in the neighborhoos of 8-10 plays in various settings, office, car,home/background, home/relaxing

I can't recall another CD in discussion where the time & place it was listened was mentioned as much as with this recording.

After a couple of times through, the identities of the various compositions became more defined, as I reacted in similar fashion to those who commented about the 'sameness' of the pieces, which disappeared for me after the second play, and my love for this project has grown ever since.

Added to my experience was listening to Mr. Kuhn playing 4 or 5 of the tracks on the new CD in trio format [some of the CD tiles listed above] and a striking version of "Oceans In The Sky" as the title track of a CD with Miroslav Vitous [b] and Also Romano [dr]

Steve Kuhn is scheduled to be the featured artist on the weekly radio/webcast this coming Sunday, 05/23 at 9AM Pacific/12Noon Eastern time.

If you would like to ask a question of him, leave it here, I which case I may include it in our Q&A portion of this weeks guest feature.

Mr. Kuhn does not have a computer.
I believe someone from ECM was to copy and fax this thread to him...

[mke]

First off, thanks to Tina Pelikan of ECM/Universal for sending me a second copy of the album.

I think the gist of the album has already been conveyed by others, so I'll just talk about my reaction to it.

I find the album a bit disappointing. It starts out great with "Lullaby," as a cello (or viola?) provides a counterpoint to the piano's main melody, but by the time I get to the sixth track, "Adagio," I'm feeling worn down.

There's the sameness of tempo, phrasing (very flowing and regular) and meters (mostly 3/4s and 6/8 used to emphasise the music's lyricism). More than that, there's an emotional sameness: the subject, which seems to me to be about looking back and accepting old age, is always lit from the same angle, so to speak. Listening to Mal Waldron's "One More Time," I hear a variety of approaches to a similar subject, a variety which reinforces the music's depth and power. "Oceans in the Sky" hints towards a different approach (the chittering intro and Kuhn's more forceful and tremulous playing).

Other things that bother me are the piano's "gummy" (I can't think of a better word) attack and the flatness of the strings: with 15 instruments, it seems to me that we should hear more textural richness.

There are lots of very nice moments (the title track's extreme lyricism - I'm almost hearing words rather than notes; the straining climb to the upper register in "Nostalgia" is quite poignant, and so on) and it's a coherent hour of music, but overall I would have liked to be a bit more surprised and to have heard a bit more diversity.

[Mike Schwartz]

Steve Kuhn was my guest this past Sunday on my weekly program.

He does not have a computer, but this thread was copied and faxed to him [with the exception of the most recent entries] He's appreciative of the reviews both positive and negative, naturally very happy with those comments and reviews that liked the CD.

As for the negative reviews, he takes them in stride, said he disagrees with some of the comments, but respects everyone's perspective.

Overall he really liked that nobody 'sat on the fence' so to speak, the fact that the CD did elicite opinions one way or the other pleased him very much.


Thanks to Tina from ECM,Lois for the forum and getting the thread to Mr. Kuhn, and Steve himself...

[Boris Badenov]

I was moved by my enjoyment of this disc to pick up the recent Verve reissue of Steve Kuhn's collaboration with Gary McFarland, October Suite. I would strongly recommend this to those who liked Promises Kept, as well as those who had reservations similar to mke's (or my own lesser quibbles). This is six arrangements by McFarland for Kuhn, Ron Carter and drummer Marty Morell (I think I have his name right). In three of these, the trio are accompanied by strings and in the other three by a small woodwind ensemble. All the arrangements are sparer than Franzetti's arrangements for Promises Kept, and the range of dynamics and diversity of emotional content is broader as well. No "plush pillows" here! I'll be keeping and enjoying both discs.

My success with October Suite then got me to pick up McFarland's How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying, which I'm also thoroughly enjoying! Thanks to Steve and ECM for starting me down this road.

[Gentle Giant]

Steve Kuhn was my guest this past Sunday on my weekly program.

He does not have a computer, but this thread was copied and faxed to him [with the exception of the most recent entries] He's appreciative of the reviews both positive and negative, naturally very happy with those comments and reviews that liked the CD.

As for the negative reviews, he takes them in stride, said he disagrees with some of the comments, but respects everyone's perspective.

Overall he really liked that nobody 'sat on the fence' so to speak, the fact that the CD did elicite opinions one way or the other pleased him very much.


Thanks to Tina from ECM,Lois for the forum and getting the thread to Mr. Kuhn, and Steve himself...

I think it's nice that he got to read people's impressions of his work and glad that he accepts them as being honest and thoughtful. Any artist should seek out an appreciate feedback from the public, while always staying true to his or her own vision.

[Pete C]

Just another interesting footnote on Kuhn's illustrious career:

Live, Lenox, Massachussetts, August 29, 1959
Ornette Coleman(as), Don Cherry(tp), Kent McGarity(tp,b-tb), Steve Kuhn(p),
Ron Brown(p), Larry Ridley(b), Barry Greenspan(d)

[crawjo]

Steve Kuhn was my guest this past Sunday on my weekly program.

He does not have a computer, but this thread was copied and faxed to him [with the exception of the most recent entries] He's appreciative of the reviews both positive and negative, naturally very happy with those comments and reviews that liked the CD.

As for the negative reviews, he takes them in stride, said he disagrees with some of the comments, but respects everyone's perspective.

Overall he really liked that nobody 'sat on the fence' so to speak, the fact that the CD did elicite opinions one way or the other pleased him very much.


Thanks to Tina from ECM,Lois for the forum and getting the thread to Mr. Kuhn, and Steve himself...

Great, now he thinks I'm an asshole who didn't like his music. Which, I guess, I am.

Somebody forward my glowing review of Crispell's new disc onto her. I need some positive karma from the folks at ECM. :D

[Gentle Giant]

FWIW, I recently found two piano-and-strings CDs at my local library: Randy Weston's Earth Birth, and McCoy Tyner's album of Burt Bachrach compositions. After listening to each one twice, I have to say I much prefer Kuhn's CD over both of them. The Tyner CD is just a complete disaster all around, with unimaginative versions of the well-known tunes; and the strings on the Weston CD (apologies to Melba Liston) detract considerably from the trio of Weston, Christian McBride, and Billy Higgins. Weston may do some of the best piano playing of the three releases (especially on "Little Niles"), but on the whole I don't enjoy the CD as much as Promises Kept.

[Dennis Gonzalez]

I bought the CD yesterday, it hadn't been in any of the stores I go to...so this was the first copy I'd seen.

I have been a huge fan of Steve Kuhn's for almost 30 years, so to hear what seemed to me a struggle on some songs to achieve the beauty and drama of earlier work was a small shock. The orchestrations don't seem to do Kuhn justice, and he has almost nothing to bounce off of at times.

I must say that I do like the CD, but it's all in one tempo, one mood, almost painful. There are some incredibly subtle and gorgeous notes and movements that I can perceive in the static-ness, and I could almost live for that.

Find Kuhn's album "Motility"...now that's a spicy meatball.

[SEJ]

I bought the CD yesterday, it hadn't been in any of the stores I go to...so this was the first copy I'd seen.

I have been a huge fan of Steve Kuhn's for almost 30 years, so to hear what seemed to me a struggle on some songs to achieve the beauty and drama of earlier work was a small shock. The orchestrations don't seem to do Kuhn justice, and he has almost nothing to bounce off of at times.

I must say that I do like the CD, but it's all in one tempo, one mood, almost painful. There are some incredibly subtle and gorgeous notes and movements that I can perceive in the static-ness, and I could almost live for that.

Find Kuhn's album "Motility"...now that's a spicy meatball.

You'd have to find an LP of that one for now. However, according to Lankin's Jazzmatazz, ECM will be reissuing (Spring 2004!?) some other goodies from the seventies: Trance, Ecstasy (solo) and the fantastic Playground with Sheila Jordan.

[Lois Gilbert]

:cool: