Top 10 Unique Approaches on Tenor

[Steve Reynolds]

variations on a theme - maybe it could be "most original" of their time - maybe it is all semantics

in the context of their times

1) Albert Ayler
2) Mats Gustafsson
3) John Coltrane
4) Pharoah Sanders
5) Urs Leimgruber
6) John Butcher
7) Evan Parker
8) Archie Shepp
9) Coleman Hawkins
10) ?

[Pete C]

10) ?

LESTER F***ING YOUNG!!!!

[Scott Dolan]

Duh....

[Scott Dolan]

I could see Ben Webster being in that group. I don't know how unique his approach actually was, but he was certainly the best at that style.

[Pete C]

I guess when there are guys like Mats Gustafsson, Urs Leimgruber, & John Butcher it's easy to forget The Pres.

[Steve Reynolds]

yeah - I missed that one, Pete - of all the old time players, Lester has never been a big favorite for whatever reason

Webster is a good choice - I always think of him as close to Hawkins with some Young influence

also Dexter Gordon must be mentioned - really the first bop tenor player along with Wardell Gray

Gene Ammons is another good choice, I think

and whatever you think of Gustafsson, he belongs on the list - IMO the most unique approach (along with Butcher) for anyone coming onto the music scene over the last 20 years or so.

[Sergio Zamora]

Gato Barbieri

[Steve Reynolds]

others to choose from:

Ike Quebec
Lucky Thompson
Roscoe Mitchell

[groover]

Illinois Jacquet. Flying home, baby!

[Scott Dolan]

Illinois Jacquet.


Absolutely!!


I almost mentioned him before. (I've been thinking about getting his Mosaic box since the stock is running low, so he just happened to be on my mind)

[SilentKnowledge]

Peter Brotzmann's solo tenor work is quite interesting.

[kenny weir]

Von Freeman

[Oger]

others to choose from:
Ike Quebec
Lucky Thompson
Roscoe Mitchell

Surprised that nobody mentionned... Sonny Rollins.
One of the best for me (till the beginning of the 70s)

Jacques

[Scott Dolan]

Oh my.

Rollins.

What a major oversight!!!

[Ed the Happy Clown]

I think Evan Parker is out of place on your list, Stevie. He's got a unique approach to the soprano sax, but on Tenor he's just a really good player who's obviously indebted to Coltrane.

[Richardo Caerleoni]

I think Evan Parker is out of place on your list, Stevie. He's got a unique approach to the soprano sax, but on Tenor he's just a really good player who's obviously indebted to Coltrane.

Ed, I BEG TO DISAGREE...DANN! And it'sChristmas - Influenced by Trane (and Dolphy)...very much. "Indedted" to Trane? Yes, well most post '50s players are...but Evan has taken the late Trane and transformed it...

ANYWAY, Where is DON BYAS?

AND STAN GETZ?

AND....MR. MARSH?....Influenced by Lester...but a (brilliant) world of his own...
http://www.swingin.gn.to/2003.10.new.ep/warne%20marsh.jpg


Merry Christmas & New Year...!

Richard & Anna....NB LESTER will never be "old time"...wash your mouth out!

BESTA TO ALL!

[Steve Reynolds]

I love Sonny - but I would put Warne Marsh on the list before him

Evan may have Coltrane as an influnece (obviously) but as RC said, he transformed his playing into something else, entirely - try listening to Insterstellar Space & Most Materiall back to back and try to find more than a distant connection to what is actually played.

[Steve Reynolds]

as far as Lester - when I was listening to quite a bit of music from the 40's & 50's (mostly years ago), I shied away from much of the pre 1950's music more due to sound as my ears/mind/brain have never been able to completely get over the inherent lack of audio fidelity of that older music.

even things like early Tristano/Marsh, pre-1950 Duke, Basie, Armstrong, even Charlie Parker (who in the day, I heard every day on KCR in the AM with the blabbermouth), early Monk (listened to all the late 40's stuff the other day - and despite the greatness of his playing and the great tunes, the muffled sound takes away from my enjoyment of the music.

probably the only late 40's stuff that I returned to often were the early Bud Powell sides.

as you know, the Lester Young recordings from the 50's were not of the same quality levels as his peers, Hawkins & Webster. To my ears, these two made some of their best music, especially Webster, in the 1950's.

So it is more from a lack of hearing Lester Young (and the fact that I've never been a big Billie Holiday fan for whatever reason - not a huge jazz singer fan for the most part - save for certain things by certain singers - that I have heard over the years.

[John L]

as you know, the Lester Young recordings from the 50's were not of the same quality levels as his peers, Hawkins & Webster.


As who knows? Maybe they were less consistent than those of Hawkins and Webster. As for overall quality level, I beg to differ.

[Uli]

also Dexter Gordon must be mentioned - really the first bop tenor player along with Wardell Gray



Not to take away form these West Coast players but that's a bit doubtful history. Don Byas has been given credit from some involved in the creation (Bird) to have been there right from the beginning.

Lists and beans, baby!

[John L]

Yes, Don Byas certainly deserves mention here. He took the harmonic lead directly from Art Tatum. Among West Coast bebop tenor pioneers, we shouldn't leave out Teddy Edwards. Some claim that he was the first...

A few other highly original approaches that haven't been mentioned yet:

Archie Shepp
Wayne Shorter
Lockjaw Davis

[Pete C]

As who knows? Maybe they were less consistent than those of Hawkins and Webster. As for overall quality level, I beg to differ.

You tell him.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000047D9.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpghttp://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00018GJGA.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

[John L]

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drc300/c334/c33442l8ws1.jpg

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drc500/c501/c50129i76dx.jpg

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drd200/d267/d26764oogn7.jpg

[Uli]

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/dre100/e196/e19664gwqe4.jpg

[John L]

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/dre100/e196/e19664gwqe4.jpg

That's 40's, but still unbeatable!

[Uli]

Yeah, I realised when posting that you are concentrating on post 50. Take this as a 40 example where I really don't think the sound should bother.

[Pete C]

John, is that Jazz Immortal set good? Most of what I've heard from that working band, as well as the early Verves (the ca. 1949-51 dates with Hank Jones & John Lewis) don't seem to have Pres in top form.

Pres is in generally good form on those 1956 D.C. dates that Pablo put out.

"Polka Dots and Moonbeams" on "Basie at Newport" is one of the greatest ballad performances of all time, and Pres is also amazing on the Jimmy Rushing features at that concert.

[likewise]

variations on a theme - maybe it could be "most original" of their time - maybe it is all semantics

in the context of their times

1) Albert Ayler
2) Mats Gustafsson
3) John Coltrane
4) Pharoah Sanders
5) Urs Leimgruber
6) John Butcher
7) Evan Parker
8) Archie Shepp
9) Coleman Hawkins
10) ?

Also, there's this one guy who's supposed to have a pretty unique approach: Joe Maneri. The missing #10 maybe? :)

[John L]

John, is that Jazz Immortal set good? Most of what I've heard from that working band, as well as the early Verves (the ca. 1949-51 dates with Hank Jones & John Lewis) don't seem to have Pres in top form.

Pres is in generally good form on those 1956 D.C. dates that Pablo put out.

"Polka Dots and Moonbeams" on "Basie at Newport" is one of the greatest ballad performances of all time, and Pres is also amazing on the Jimmy Rushing features at that concert.


Pete: The Jazz Immortal set is incredible, some of my very favorite Pres (and very favorite jazz) on record. The concert is from 1950 and Pres is truly inspired. A particular highlight is a 10-minute slow blues (Lester' Blues No. 1 on the Jazz Immortal disc and "Big Eye Blues" on some other releases.). But the whole concert is amazing. Is doesn't get any better . The best way to get it now is on the 20-bit Complete Savoy recordings set on Savoy.

[Steve Reynolds]

brain lock


Papa Joe belongs near the top of the list


Get Ready.....

[BlueMiles]

Isn't the tenor sax THE iconic instrument in jazz?

I mean, let's go with "twenty unique approaches" this time!

Count me as one of the many who was baffled and displeased by the absence of Lester Young and Sonny Rollins on Steve's original list.

[Steve Reynolds]

"baffled and displeased"?

Lester was a bad ommision - and adding Joe Maneri to the list, maybe I could replace Shepp with Rollins

I'll make some more changes - been thinking about this a bit

1) Joe Maneri
2) Albert Ayler
3) Mats Gustafsson
4) John Coltrane
5) Evan Parker
6) Lester Young
7) Coleman Hawkins
8) Urs Leimgruber
9) John Butcher
10) Warne Marsh

better?

[Pete C]

The Reynolds 10 is like the Dow 100.

[Steve Reynolds]

"dynamic" is a better description, eh? :D

[John L]

We still haven't considered Eddie Harris and John Gilmore. Stan Getz too.

[Uli]

"baffled and displeased"?



I'll make some more changes - been thinking about this a bit

1) Joe Maneri
2) Albert Ayler
3) Mats Gustafsson
4) John Coltrane
5) Evan Parker
6) Lester Young
7) Coleman Hawkins
8) Urs Leimgruber
9) John Butcher
10) Warne Marsh

better?

Maybe. There is still lots of room for improvement so. How about replacing Mats Gustafson with James Carter?

[Richardo Caerleoni]

Maybe. There is still lots of room for improvement so. How about replacing Mats Gustafson with James Carter?

So. How about SONNY ROLLINS ! [ask Branford!]

I'm thinking of running the top five "jazz Shirts"?

(1) Miles - "Milestones" (Green Button Bown)

(2) Denzil - Cream Silk - One button in "Mo Better Blues"

(3) Trane - Polo Shirt on the Bluetrane sessions

(4) Tina Brooks - Multi Colored button down (most photographs)

(5) "Big" John Patton - Thick stripped Button down ("Along Came John")

But, maybe "I'll give up living and go out shopping instead!"

RC.

[Jesse]

John Gilmore

[Richardo Caerleoni]

John Gilmore


Agreed!..Now we are "moving on"!

RC.