Travelin' Off the Beaten Path

[BeBop]

I'm looking for vacation destination recommendations. Will have a bit of vacation time to burn later this year.

I've traveled quite a bit, which has left me quite jaded with respect to certain 'popular' destinations.

So, the 'rock' and 'hard place' I'm caught between are the spots I've already been to and the places I don't want to go because they're too touristy (Australia, New Zealand, Belize, Costa Rica...)

Also interested in stories from your legendary outings.

[Pete C]

For the combination of extreme foreignness, great people, good food, & amazing sights, South India is my favorite place in the world to travel.

http://www.templenet.com/Tamilnadu/Madurai/meenakshi.jpg

[Pete C]

This is long, but relevant. It's a piece I wrote about India. Originally published in Grand Tour magazine. It's in 3 parts due to posting limitations.


Peter Cherches



Mr. Cherches Goes to India

"You travel so much, and you're a writer, so how come you never write about travel?" many people have asked Mr. Cherches. Mr. Cherches sees the question as indicative of the utilitarian strain in western thought. Experience is no good unless you can profit from it. Why not capitalize on the experience?
Mr. Cherches has never before written about travel because he has never had any idea of what to write, nor any desire to write it. He travels to get away from the other things he does. He travels for travel's sake.
Besides, Mr. Cherches finds the narcissism of most travel writing annoying--the incessant "I" angling for attention. Mr. Cherches can't decide which he finds more loathsome: the writing traveler who portrays himself as "representative" or the one who portrays himself as "extraordinary."
I have nothing to say about travel, Mr. Cherches thinks, nor have I come up with the proper angle from which to say it.
Nonetheless, Mr. Cherches decides to give it a try, as an experiment. He will write about his second trip to India, and he will write it in the third person. He hopes that will mitigate the narcissism of the "I." He will write scattered fragments that will be of no practical use to anybody.
In India, Mr. Cherches takes notes with ambivalence.

* * *

Recently, when asked what he looks for most when he travels, Mr. Cherches replied, "Foreignness." Of all the places he has been, India is, without question, the most foreign. The westerner in India is Alice in Wonderland: the rules of the game are not only different, they can't be fathomed.
In November of 1996, six years after his first trip to India, Mr. Cherches returned, spending one month touring the south.

* * *

His first morning his second time in India, at a hotel near the Bombay airport, Mr. Cherches peruses the room service menu. One of the choices is:
Indian Breakfast, Rs. 80.
Lassi (Sweet or Salted)
Aloo Paratha with Dahi
OR
Puri Bhaji
Tea or Coffee
Mr. Cherches orders sweet lassi, aloo paratha and coffee.
When the food arrives Mr. Cherches is presented with a bill for 105 rupees--there is an extra charge for the coffee. Mr. Cherches contests the extra charge and the waiter insists that the tea or coffee comes only with Puri Bhaji. Mr. Cherches had not realized the ambiguity of the first "or," though he does realize that he is now being charged more for a breakfast special than for an a la carte sum of its constituent parts. "Many guests are confused," the waiter tells Mr. Cherches, and Mr. Cherches figures the hotel is counting on just that. As he eats his aloo paratha, Mr. Cherches tries to remember the rule for "or" without parentheses.

* * *

At the beach in Goa, Mr. Cherches happens upon the following sign: DRUG OFFENCES PUNISHABLE WITH TEN YEARS RIGOROUS IMPRISONMENT. Mr. Cherches contemplates the possible meanings of rigorous imprisonment before moving on.

* * *

A Kashmiri shopkeeper in Goa stops Mr. Cherches. "Mister, do you know who you look like?" the Kashmiri asks.
"No, who?" Mr. Cherches asks back.
"Salman Rushdie."
Mr. Cherches does not know how to take this, but he remembers an incident from his last visit to India. The Gulf War had just started, and Mr. Cherches was checking into a Bombay hotel. The desk clerk, obviously a Muslim, on seeing Mr. C's American passport, proclaimed, "Saddam will bury you!" Mr. Cherches remembers having slept fitfully that night.

* * *

At the ticket counter of any railway station in India there is not an orderly queue, but rather a chaotic huddle of Indians, each trying to pre-empt the other, thrusting hands and voices at the clerk behind the cage. Surely Indians are the most incorrigible line jumpers in the world, Mr. Cherches thinks. Then he remembers some other places he's been. Mr. Cherches imagines a new Olympic event: the line jump. Without a doubt, India, China and Russia would take all the medals, though not necessarily in that order.

* * *

Indian soft drinks are served with the thinnest, softest plastic straws. You suck on them and they collapse. Drinking, like everything else in India, is difficult. Drinking a Limca, Mr. Cherches remembers a wonderful Raymond Chandler simile (from The Long Goodbye, he thinks): "He had a face like a collapsed lung."
* * *

Never wear sandals at night, in Kerala, if you're white, Mr. Cherches cautions.
Mr. C. had followed a lead on a restaurant in Ernakulam that specialized in traditional Keralan cuisine. The restaurant, Fry's Village, was an expansive outdoor place, set up like a series of traditional village huts. Mr. Cherches was the only westerner in the entire restaurant, and the mosquitoes had a field day. Here was a break from the usual, boring Dravidian fare--exotic American food (or, even more exotic, had they known, Russian Jewish food!). Mr. Cherches's enjoyment of his own meal of fish moily and kadala (a chick pea dish) with idiappam (rice noodle "string hoppers") was severely compromised by what had to be the two itchiest feet in Ernakulam.

* * *

[Dennis Gonzalez]

I've traveled a lot as a jazz musician/visual artist/writer and I started in 1980, when the remote places were just that, remote still. Actually, my parents gave me the wanderlust virus, as we traveled most of the 48 states by car. And I must say that the world has very quickly become ruined and touristy in the intervening 23 years. I took an illegal trip to Tibet (I know I know it's now China) back in 1972 and even then the changes were too much. Amidst the beauty and exotic "otherness" there were White Zombie T-shirts and such on some of the old grizzled holy men, and plastic bags all over the ground at some of the most ancient shrines to the Machchindra...what a strange and terrible feeling I had in observing that type of stuff starting to happen all over the world. http://www.dennisgonzalez.com/htmlfiles/magic_of_words/section_I_poemIV.htm When you are through with that image/poem, scrool down to the Section I icon, click on it, and then choose another poem (I-VIII).

One place I can recommend that is still unknown is the northern coast of Honduras. You have to fly into Sula or Tegucigalpa and rent a car. Drive to the northern coast and start looking for villages where the Garifuna (descendants of shipwrecked African slaves) now live. They will treat you beautifully and will leve you alone to wander the clear, clean, empty, palm-tree lined beaches. They will cook for you and take you out on fishing excursions. All this for $5 - $10 a pop. Incredible.

[Pete C]

"America--a fine country!"
Every Indian male and his brother, it seems, asks Mr. Cherches, "Where are you coming from?" It is not a question of perspective, nor of last place visited, but rather the Indian-English way of phrasing, "Where do you come from?" For some reason, the words United States or USA don't register immediately with Indians. There is always a pause, then recognition: "Ah, America!" So Mr. Cherches, no longer worried about being sensitive to the feelings of South Americans, begins to tell Indians he is coming from "America."
Sometimes, however, hard-core New Yorker that he is, Mr. Cherches will say he is from New York.
"Where in New York?" a hotel clerk asks him.
"New York City."
"Ah, not Long Island or Brooklyn?"
Mr. Cherches is impressed with the clerk's knowledge of geography. "Yes, Brooklyn," he replies. "But it's part of New York City. I didn't think many people in India knew Brooklyn."
"Yes, But I know because I am crazy for America," the clerk replies. "I know that Albany is your state capital."
Mr. Cherches is reminded of a little boy in Kathmandu, six years earlier: "I learn all about America at school," the boy had said. "I know Washington is the seat of your kingdom."

* * *

After about a week of eating nothing but Indian food Mr. Cherches notices that when he sweats he begins to smell like a sweaty Indian.

* * *

"Which way is Mahatma Gandhi Road," Mr. Cherches asks a man on the street in Trivandrum.
"Where are you coming from?" the man asks.
"America. New York City," Mr. Cherches replies.
"You are Jew?" the man asks.
Startled, Mr. Cherches thinks for a moment, then decides to say yes.
"I am Christian," the man says. "Do you believe in Jesus Christ?"
"No," Mr. Cherches replies, then adds, "but I don't believe in anything."
"That is the way," the man says, pointing toward Mahatma Gandhi Road.

* * *

At the train station in Trivandrum an American with a vacant stare begins to chat with Mr. Cherches. The man explains that he has come to Trivandrum to see the dentist, but that he is living at an ashram several hours away. He then proceeds to bend Mr. Cherches's ear about his all-knowing, all-seeing divine mother. "She knows everything I did yesterday, and everything I did a hundred years ago, and everything I'll be doing a hundred years from today," he says. Mr. Cherches nods politely.
Sometimes, Mr. Cherches is amazed at how polite he can be.
* * *

Many people go to India to find themselves. Mr. Cherches goes there to lose himself.

* * *

On a restaurant menu in Trivandrum, soups are listed under the heading "From the Turin." This must be a typo, Mr. Cherches thinks. Surely these soups are not from the Detroit of Italy, home of the famous shroud, and of the great writer, holocaust survivor, and eventual suicide, Primo Levi.

* * *

On seeing Mr. Cherches's passport, a hotel clerk volunteers the information that his brother lives in Memphis.
"Do you know what Memphis is famous for?" Mr. Cherches asks the clerk.
"No."
"Elvis Presley lived there, and now many people make pilgrimages to his home at Graceland."
"I wouldn't know," the clerk replies.
Mr. Cherches decides not to try his luck with the song by Chuck Berry.

* * *

On the train to Kanyakumari Mr. Cherches is talking with a government employee on holiday. There is a lull in the conversation. Then the man points at Mr. Cherches's head and says, "You have lost your hair!"

* * *

Mr. Cherches phones the only decent hotel in Aleppy to make a reservation and gets a typically Indian commitment: "The room is reserved, but not confirmed." On arrival, Mr. Cherches is told, "We have no rooms left. Only a suit. Only a suit."

* * *

At a bird sanctuary in Kerala Mr. Cherches meets a local named Sebastian (there are many Christians in Kerala). Sebastian, an enthusiastic Kerala booster, is pleased that Mr. Cherches finds his state beautiful. "I welcome you to the land of lakes, latex, and letters," Sebastian says. "Letters because here in Kottayam district we are first to achieve one hundred percent literacy. And latex you know?"
"Condoms," Mr. Cherches replies.
Sebastian giggles. "Yes, condoms. And other things too. So welcome to the land of lakes, latex, and letters! You'll remember that? And my name?"

* * *

"Hello. Where are you coming from? America? Do you have American pen?" Mr. Cherches wonders: why is it that so many Indian boys and young men think that we foreign travelers come with an unlimited supply of pens to give away as souvenirs of our visit to their country?

* * *

Walking down the road in Kumily, Mr. Cherches meets up with three men, one of whom is carrying a boom box. They are listening to "We've Only Just Begun," by the Carpenters. Asians have the worst taste in American music, Mr. Cherches thinks, and remembers how often he heard Kenny G in China, and how he broke a little boy's heart in Shanghai by breaking the news that Karen Carpenter has been dead for years.
"That music is terrible," Mr. Cherches tells the men. "You should listen to James Brown, or Otis Redding."
"But we love the Carpenters. We love American music. We love Michael," one of the guys tells Mr. C. Walking down the road they converse. Two of the men are in their twenties and the other one is forty-five. The older one claims to be the grandson of the Maharaja of Travancore and is very drunk or stoned on drugs. It is 9:30 AM. "We are going to have a beer," one of the guys informs Mr. C. "Will you join us."
Mr. Cherches doesn't like the odds. Three Indians and me, he thinks, I'll be subjected to a constant grilling, have to answer interminable questions. It's too early in the morning. "Sorry, I never drink beer before 10 AM," he tells them.

* * *

[Pete C]

It's the phone system from another planet, Mr. Cherches thinks. There is no logic to the phone system in India. Sometimes the area codes have changed. Sometimes new prefixes have been added to existing phone numbers. But as often phone numbers are just swapped--for instance, a hotel's number is assigned to a private residence and the hotel is given a number that has been taken away from somebody else. Sometimes the new owner of an old number will have the old owner's new number handy, sometimes not. Sometimes a nonworking number will lead to a constant busy signal and no explanatory message, while sometimes you will get a message to "check your number." "Information," or "Phone Inquiry," if and when you can reach it, will as often as not have the old, obsolete number.
Don't visit India if you have a low threshold for frustration, Mr. Cherches advises.

[note: on a subsequent trip to India I tried calling the number that was listed for a hotel and got the following recorded message: "The number you have dialed does not exist."]

* * *

Whenever Mr. Cherches phones a hotel to make a reservation and begins to spell out his name he is cut off by the voice at the other end.
"Yes, I know, Mr. Churchill."

* * *

On the train from Madurai to Tanjore Mr. Cherches wants to discard some banana peels and an empty drink carton. He carries the refuse out of his compartment and walks toward the end of the car. He sees an attendant.
"Is there a place to throw this?" Mr. Cherches asks, pointing at the garbage.
The attendant looks confused, perplexed.
"Trash. Garbage," Mr. Cherches says.
The Attendant, still looking quite baffled, points at the window.

* * *

There are many fascinating temples in Tamil Nadu, both functioning ones and ruins. Mr. Cherches prefers the ruins, as he finds the practice of religion depressing.

* * *

At functioning Hindu temples Mr. Cherches constantly tries to dodge the greedy, relentless priests who follow him in a desperate attempt to impart some information in return for baksheesh.
"I don't want to know anything!" Mr. Cherches protests.

* * *

Indians will always refuse torn currency, but they won't hesitate to slip some in your change. Mr. Cherches saves torn bills to give as "tips" for "services" that he never requested in the first place.

* * *

India has a ways to go when it comes to politically correct language, at least as regards things medical, Mr. Cherches concludes, having passed the Hospital for Cripples and seen a bus belonging to the Spastics Society of India.

* * *

Nearly all Indian men wear mustaches. Many Tamil men are quite dark. Mr. Cherches notices a number of handsome men in Tamil Nadu who bear a striking resemblance to Billy Dee Williams.

* * *

In Madras Mr. Cherches passes a psychiatrist's office. The psychiatrist's name is Dr. Pannicker.

* * *

Indians tend to be a curious, loquacious lot. On countless occasions Mr. Cherches is asked his profession. He usually replies that he is a computer programmer. It's much easier than explaining that he's a writer of short, non-utilitarian texts.

* * *

On a tour bus to the Ellora caves Mr. Cherches sits next to a seventyish gentleman from Calcutta who had been educated under the Raj. When the man asks Mr. Cherches's profession, Mr. C. replies, "I teach English. Writing and Literature."
"You teach Shakespeare?" the man asks.
"No, mostly modern literature."
"Ah, modern literature," says the man from Calcutta. "Somerset Maugham and Pearl Buck?"

* * *

At the Ajanta caves Mr. Cherches is being followed by a relentless postcard hawker. Mr. Cherches is sick of having his space invaded by Indians who won't take no for an answer. Exasperated, Mr. Cherches tells the hawker, "You should be more patriotic. Why don't you bother some Indians instead of foreigners?"
A young Indian man who has come on the same tour bus says to Mr. Cherches: "You don't like India, do you?"

* * *

Mr. Cherches decides that although India is easier, and in many ways more pleasant, the second time around, familiarity has mitigated some of the excitement of a first trip to India. What is missing? Mr. Cherches, rarely at a loss for words, has trouble explaining it, to himself as well as to others. The best he can come up with is, "the mind fuck."

* * *

Most travelers who have been to India have a love/hate relationship with the place. Whenever Mr. Cherches meets others who have been to India the form of conversation is usually a trading of war stories, a mutual litany of complaints. Neither party has a good word for India, yet both invariably sigh and say, "I can't wait to go back."

[kc bob]

Probably not obscure enough for you... I was planning to head to Prague, Budapest and Vienna next month but I just got assigned to a nasty project and can't take off a full week or two, so long weekend NYC trips will have to do. Will try to make it to Europe this summer. But even my on the beaten path trip to London/Dublin last Nov was great.

Also hope to go to Ecuador later this year or maybe Hong Kong and Thailand. I've always wanted to run around naked with the indigenous people of Ecuador (I use that line whenever asked the stupid question by upper management where I want to be in 5 years). But the reality is, I would just be a typical American tourist. I do know an anthropologist at UC Boulder and have talked to her about taking me to Ecuador for a non-touristy expedition but nothing has panned out so far.

[bluenoter]

Pete--

http://www.presw.com/images/applause.jpg

[Pete C]

http://www.globalgeografia.com/album/india/kerala.jpg

[Dennis Gonzalez]

If I'm correct, KC, those hands Blue attached can be used for covering your exquisite nakedness when you go to Ecuador (even though they were meant for Pete)! Hope they are big enough!

[Dennis Gonzalez]

MY traveling companion in India!

[Salvador Dali Lama]

awesome, Pete. I'm going to Madras in a year, I'm really looking forward to it. Catch any good music while you were there?

[BeBop]

Pete, Dennis and KC Bob,

Thanks!

Amazingly, you've hit on two of the areas I'd been considering (Southern India and Honduras); I'll save the other short listers for a while. I love the un-directed nominations.

KC Bob, Prague and Buda aren't on the short list this year. (I've been a couple of times - 1979 and 1989).

Rereading my original post, I didn't mean to imply that any place was so touristy that it was beneath me as a traveler. To be honest, I'll hit Nepal, Tibet and Beijing when I'm older; I figure I'd better tackle Ouagadougou and Sudan while I'm relatively young.

Again, thanks.

And keep those suggestions and stories coming.

[Pete C]

S.D. Lama, outside of Kathakali in Kerala I haven't really seen much live performance in India--timing, I guess. But I believe there's an annual music festival in Madras. I don't know the details. I can't remember--are you in the NY area? If so, we should hook up before you go to India. Two of the best meals of my life were in Madras, at Dakshin & Raintree.

I've heard that Sumatra is pretty spectacular. has anybody been there?

[Salvador Dali Lama]

Nope, I'm in Atlanta. I might be in NY some time this summer though, so maybe something can be arranged.

I'm glad to hear about the food, the only South Indian food I've ever had here was all drenched in vinegar - awful. I was a bit worried about that, especially since I like N. Indian food quite a bit.

Sumatra sounds pretty damn fine to me... Ever since I saw it on Globe Treker, ah. I'd really like to go there. I want to go a lot of places actually. I just hope my trip next year isnt fubar'ed by some ramification of either this war or whatever war comes after it. I'm afraid I might should get a Canadian passport or something for my travels. Damn it to hell.

[Pete C]

I know nothing about vinegar in South Indian food. The only Indian dishes I've ever had that have any kind of vinegary taste are vindaloos and vegetable jalfrezi, both of which can be wonderful. Where did you have that offending South Indian food?

[Salvador Dali Lama]

It was at this joint here called Udipi Cafe. It operates under the auspices of being an "authentic south indian vegetarian" resturant. Beats me. Theres a billion of them around here though, theres one up the road called "Madras Bharvan" that I havent tried yet, but I'll check it out soon.

It was pretty well awful. The only negative experience I've had thus far with Indian food though. And I'll be damned if I didnt have a Knish at an Indian joint the other day. I never could quite understand what the waiter called it, but it was a Knish no two ways about it. and it had mango sauce with it. vetty, vetty good.

[Pete C]

And I'll be damned if I didnt have a Knish at an Indian joint the other day. I never could quite understand what the waiter called it, but it was a Knish no two ways about it.

If it was a north Indian restaurant, I can't imagine what it might be other than a samosa. If it was south Indian, it could have been a bonda.

Udipi is a town in Karnataka where the dosa was invented.

[Jimmy Cantiello]

BeBop! Yo, long time, no see. Where have you been? I thought you may have been kidnapped while you were on one of your triathalons. I see you're alive and well. Welcome back!!.................

[BeBop]

Jimmy C - Great to be back and see so many familiar faces.

[Tanager]

I have never tasted anything even remotely vinegary in either South or North Indian food (and I've eaten a LOT of both).

[edit]

Lemme amend this - while vinegar is certainly used in some Indian dishes (my wife uses it in marinades and the like), I've never tasted anything that really smacked of vinegar the way that some dishes can. And lemme say as well that both North Indian and South Indian food are considerably more diverse than one would be led to believe by restaurant selection, so it's entirely possible that you just had something outside my/our realm of experience.

[end of edit]

I've been wanting to visit Kerala for years - planning on bringing the whole clan down from Delhi, none of us has ever been. One of these years...

Although I've never been, another part of India which is repeatedly mentioned as a worthwhile destination is the area around Darjeeling (about as far into NE India as it's really safe for a foreigner to go these days). Beautiful hillside lodges, the Himalaya visible in the distance, wonderful wildlife (NE India and SW India are both hotspots of endemic flora/fauna).

Honestly, the list of places I'd love to see is really, really long...

[blake]

i'm very pleased to find this thread. my girlfriend and i are planning a trip to india in the fall. tentatively, we're planning on flying in to dehli. then on to agra. followed by a trip south along the west coast to kerala, which is where my girlfriend grew up. our return flight would be out of madras. we're only able to dedicate 3 1/2 weeks for this trip. and i fear this is way too much territory to cover in that amount of time. (and i'd love to visit kathmandu as well.) i'd prefer not to spent the whole trip dashing from place to place. pete, can you or anyone else provide some advice on how we might allot our time?

[Pete C]

Blake, I'm off for the evening, but I'll be happy to reply in detail tomorrow...

[clinthopson]

Pete C is a true travel maven.

We were planning on a month in Spain in the fall but because of Shrub's war, we decided that Europe wasn't the best choice this year.
Instead, we have booked the Smithsonian tour of Mexico's Copper Canyon. It looks like a very interesting 9 days. I've wanted to do this for some time and the timing is right.

Of course we'll be coming to the Apple for a few days in the fall to see the newest grandkid that Shell and Jerry are giving us.

Maybe we can schedule another one of those fine crawls.

[blake]

thanks very much pete. i look forward to your response.

bebop, a friend of mine has been living in honduras (comayagua to be specific) for the past 8 months or so. i'm sure he'd be happy to share his experiences (via e-mail) if you're interested.

[jesus marion joseph]

Having recently been to Thailand, I would recommend it heartily. We (mrs. jmj and me) visited a great little island just north of Koh Samui called Koh Tao. Very laid back, but mostly populated by European and Australian tourists and scuba divers.

[blake]

thanks very much pete. i look forward to your response.

bebop, a friend of mine has been living in honduras (comayagua to be specific) for the past 8 months or so. i'm sure he'd be happy to share his experiences (via e-mail) if you're interested.

[Tanager]

Blake, I obviously can't give tips for Kerala, but if you need any help whilst in Delhi, lemme know.

[Pete C]

Originally posted by blake
followed by a trip south along the west coast to kerala, which is where my girlfriend grew up. our return flight would be out of madras. we're only able to dedicate 3 1/2 weeks for this trip. and i fear this is way too much territory to cover in that amount of time.

This is a reply specifically for Blake, but it may be of use to Bebop and S.D. Lama too. The first question, Blake, is what do you mean by "south along the west coast to Kerala"? Surely you don't intend to do it overland from Delhi--that would take forever. Depending on where in Kerala your girlfriend grew up, your best bet is to fly to Cochin or possibly Mangalore if you need to be in the northernmost part of Kerala.

What kind of budget will you be on? Do you intend to use public transportation or hire a car & driver? I did my trip through Kerala & Tamil Nadu by public transportation, but I had a friend with me on a subsequent trip through Karnataka, and we hired a car & driver. It certainly made travel smoother and saved a lot of time. But an advantage of public transportation is much more chance to mix with locals. The cost of a car & driver for a long distance trip should work out to less than $50 a day, including a nice tip for the driver.

Hotels in the south tend to be cheaper than in big cities like Delhi & Bombay, and northern tourist spots like Agra. You can stay in comfortable mid-range hotels easily for $20 a night, or you can spend $80-100 (I never did) for true luxury.

If your airfare allows a stopover in Europe, take it for one overnight. It'll break up a very long trip, and will help you adjust to the jet lag. I did that 2 out of 3 times (but both were on frequent flyer tickets that allowed stopovers in both directions).

On the trip that I wrote about above, I flew to Bombay, then to Goa (not really worth the trip), then to Cochin. From there I traveled around Kerala.

You'll read a lot about the famous backwaters boat trip from Quilon to Aleppy. I don't think it's worth the trouble. It takes a long time, with long stretches of nothingness. From what I hear, it's a better bet to take a small boat backwaters trip sponsored by the tourist board in Cochin. Supposedly more spectacular scenically, and you may make stops at various islands.

There are regularly scheduled Kathakali performances in Cochin, aimed at tourists.

It's cheaper to stay on the mainland, in Ernakulam (where I did, at a nice place called the Sea Lord), but much less pleasant than staying on one of the islands. For a splurge, there are several upscale resorts around Cochin, the best being the Taj Malabar.

You may already know that Kerala has the highest literacy rate of any state in India, thanks to years of Marxist local government. People are great. I believe 25% are Christian, about 10% Muslim, and the rest Hindu. It's the only place in India where you don't see Muslim-Hindu tensions. Food is great and unique. Unlike the other southern states, the cuisine is not primarily vegetarian. Amazing seafood, like tiger prawns and several kinds of local fish, abounds.

There's plenty to see and do around Cochin. It's one of the most fascinating, atmospheric parts of India. You should definitely plan on 3 or 4 days in Cochin.

From there it depends on what you want do do in Kerala. If you're looking for a couple of days on the beach, Kovalam is the very developed resort, and Varkala WAS the quiet backpackers favorite (about 7 years ago)--I think it has been FOUND by the developers.

Trivandrum, the capital of the state, is nothing special, but if you end up staying at Kovalam, it's worth a quick visit. I went mainly because I had a contact to look up there.

The two best ways to move on to Tamil Nadu from Kerala are via one or another of the wildlife sanctuaries. I took a bus from Kottayam to Periyar (5 hours; there are also buses from Cochin, 8 hours). Periyar is based around a lake, and you take early morning boat trips to see the animals that inhabit the area. Actually, it's nothing special, but the highlight was a trip around the tea plantations I took with a local guide who was hawking his wares by the lake. He was a great guy who knew everybody. I pooled with a British couple I had met and we hired him and a driver for a day. The hill country around there is spectacular.

The alternative to Periyar is Kodaikanal. I can't tell you anything about that.

From Periyar, it's another bus to Madurai, another place where you'll want to spend at least a couple of days. It's a wonderfully atmospheric city full of gaudy painted temples, and Tamil culture to the max. Also a great place to see a tailor and have a bunch of shirts made for a song. The main temple is like a city unto itself.

From Madurai, I took the train to Tanjore (Thanjavur), which has one of the most beautiful temples of all. It's a pleasant enough town to wander around. One overnight will do.

http://www.indianest.com/architecture/10tami1.jpg

From there I took another train to Madras (Chennai). I don't think you'll want to spend too much time in Madras itself--its a big, hot city. However, there's a great museum, plenty of Victorian architecture, and two of the best restaurants I've ever eaten at in my life (Dakshin & Raintree).

But very close to Madras is Mahaballipuram, which is a combination historical sight and beach resort. The antiquities there are among the most ancient, primal and fascinating. You can stay at a nice, laid back place on the beach pretty cheaply. One of the hotels, Golden Sun, I think, features Sri Lankan food, for a change of pace (in general Tamil food is strictly vegetarian).

Also nearby is the temple town of Kanchipuram, where I encountered the most relentless, money grubbing priest, the one who prompted me to cry out, "I don't want to know anything!"

Given your amount of time available, I'd say a similar route from Kerala to Madras is your best bet. With a car & driver you can be more flexible and make stops at the various Tamil temple towns, and maybe the former French colony of Pondicherry.

I find the south much more congenial for a Western traveler than the north, while being less touristed. People are quite friendly and open, and you aren't bombarded by beggars, hawkers, and baksheesh seekers to the degree you are in the North. Agra is one of the worst for that. Take a quick trip, see the Taj & the fort, and make your getaway. I don't like Delhi either, but perhaps Tanager can give a nicer spin.

Let me know if you have any other specific questions.

http://www.auroville-studytours.org/images/southindia.gif

And make sure you read some of R.K. Narayan's novels, as well as Samskara, by Anantha Murthy before you go.
http://www.ourkarnataka.com/books/samskAra.htm

For detailed information about the sights of South India, I'd recommend the Blue Guide Southern India, but for practical suggestions, like hotels, restaurants, travel logistics, etc., stick with Lonely Planet or Rough Guide.

[Tanager]

I should make the disclosure that, when I go to Delhi, I stay with family, and, although I am an obvious Westerner, I also speak Hindi - and that *does* make a difference, as does just being accompanied by locals. So I am probably less bothered by the hawkers and beggars than some others. (I also don't bother with the usual tourist haunts at all, and there are plenty of things worth seeing other than those in Delhi). But I'll be honest - if it's spectacular (natural) scenery you want, Delhi is NOT the place (and neither is Agra, other than the Taj - it's one of the filthiest cities you can imagine). I'd also note that, from what I've heard, Kathmandu is not much on its own merits - LOTS of hawkers, wayward "seekers", and expeditions staging for the Himalaya. Unless you're looking to go trekking, I'd skip it (and be aware of the Maoist insurgency in parts of Nepal as well).

Delhi is, for me, sort of a second home, so I'm just pretty comfortable there.

I'd also second Pete's warning - overland travel in India can be *painfully* slow (be patient, no tight connections, etc. - the usual caveats you'll read in any worthwhile tourist guide) - and it also matters greatly when you travel. If you have any urge at all to see NW India, don't bother from April through the first part of October, for the most part, unless you'll be in the mountains fulltime. I've done Summer in Delhi, and it can be pretty painful for all, locals included. It's fine if you're passing through on to, say the mountains, but don't bother otherwise. Best time is late fall/*very* early Spring (I'm sticking strictly to the NW, which includes all the biggies of Delhi, Amritsar, Jaipur, Udaipur, Agra, and so forth).

One thing that is worth doing if you are travelling to India and you know someone from the part of India you are visiting: offer to take something back for their family. This is quite customary for Indians to do, and it might give you a good in with the locals as far as knowing someone on the ground who can give you advice, etc. (We never have to offer, we are usually besieged with requests :/ )

[Pete C]

Here's a Kerala fish curry:

http://www.taste-india.com/curry.jpg

[blake]

pete and tanager, thanks very much to you both. this is great information.

our thinking was to fly in to delhi (via london where we'll stay over for a night on both legs of the trip) for the express reason of hopping over to agra to see the taj. my girlfriend grew up near cochin and is christian. she speaks malayalam. maybe being with her will deter some hawkers and beggars, maybe not. what about shimla? or jaipur? i've heard there are some beautiful old palaces there that offer lodging. tanager, you mention that there are plenty of things worth seeing other than those in delhi. i'd love to hear about them. and let me reiterate that we are planning this trip for the late october through the first half of november. we've just started putting together our itinerary.

pete, when i said we'd likely head "south along the west coast to kerala", i envisioned taking the train from dehli (or somewhere in the north) to goa and then to kerala. but it sounds like the train system in india is similar to the one in the states and flying is the way to go. our primary reason for considering goa is for the beaches. it sounds like visiting kovalam or varkala will cover that base.

kerala will be the focal point of our trip. my girlfriend has some family in cochin so we'll get to hang with some locals in addition to exploring on our own. i am most excited about this part of the trip. my girlfriend has painted such fantastic mental images of kerala for me.

the rest of your suggested itinerary sounds great. and renting a car and driver to take us up to madras sounds like an excellent suggestion. and if we happen to encounter any money-grubbing priests... well, maybe i'll make some field recordings along the way. i can start my own version of the nonesuch explorer series.

lastly, thanks for including the book recommendations. my girlfriend is a fan of narayan but i've never read any of his work. and the murthy novel sounds fascinating.

as i mentioned before, we're still early in the planning stages of our trip. i'm sure more questions will come up along the way. thanks once again.

[Tanager]

Blake, Shimla is a decent-sized city - even though it's right at the foot of the Himalaya, there are probaby other quieter and more scenic options. Nainithal in Uttaranchal is one, and it's near Jim Corbett NP (which is a pretty famous park with lotsa macrofauna, e.g. tigers in particular, although seeing one is difficult). Well, to put it another way, Corbett is close to being on the way to Nainithal. It's a fairly easy drive from Delhi, if you wanted to rent a car.

Jaipur and Udaipur are both worth visiting, but I wouldn't plan lengthy stays in either - a couple of days, maybe three or four, would doubtless suffice. The palaces and scenery are quite spectacular.

If you decide to spend a couple of days in Delhi, *definitely* hire a driver - the traffic is horrible, the buses are an...experience, and negotiating with the rickshawwallas just isn't worth it sometimes. Most good tourist hotels will be able to set you up with a reputable driver.

[Tanager]

Blake, one thing I should mention - I don't know to what level you and your GF engage in PDA (holding hands, whatnot) in the US, but you will help both of you if you just don't do it in India. An Indian woman seen showing physical affection to a westerner in public is just *asking* for trouble, unfortunately. I don't know if the same holds true for Kerala, but I doubt it's much different. In N. India, people can get *really* nasty (I'm not saying they *always* will, but it's fairly likely they'll at least give you continuous hostile looks, and my wife has been called some pretty outrageous things). Get used to walking as if you were good friends, but nothing more. It's easy for Americans to forget this part of not sticking out, believe me (been there).

Having her with you, however, assuming you abide by the above, will probably help with the hawkers. But, at least in my experience, *nothing* will keep them away totally.

[Jazzooo]

if you go anywhere near Equador without spending a few days in the Galapogos Islands, you're missing (pardon the cliche') a once in a lifetime experience. Hook up with Mountain Travel Sobek for an outstanding guide--you need one. You also need to be able to sleep on a boat. That trip changed me, right down to my core. The only other thing I've done that was as adventurous was trekking across the Sahara in Morocco--something i don't recommend at this time!

[Pete C]

Blake, I'd highly recommend not trying to bite off too much in one trip, given 3.5 weeks. What you could do, however, is the easy Delhi-Jaipur-Agra (or Delhi-Agra-Jaipur) triangle with a driver, and then you'd be able to see lots of amazing architecture without too many travel hassles, or having to stay in those places too long. That way you could also stop in Fatehpur Sikhri (the well preserved "ghost city") along the way, which is pretty amazing. You could zoom through that in about 4 days, then get driven from Agra or Jaipur back to the Delhi airport to make your flight south. I did that my first time in India. Definitely plan to spend the most time in the south. If you fly to Trivandrum, you're right next to Kovalam, can do an easy daytrip to the tip of India at Kanyakumari (nothing too special, but it's neat to see the convergence of the Arabian Sea, Indian Ocean and Bay of Bengal), then work your way up to Cochin (it's not too far). Then from Cochin you could head east and over the hills toward Madurai.

Also, since all International flights get in after midnight, you might consider booking the first night near the Delhi airport.

The Kerala beaches are nicer than Goa, IMO, but I'm not a beach maven. And you should definitely stay on the beach toward the end of the trip at Mahaballipuram. Cochin with family should be great.

The other advantage the south has over the north: great coffee. And I love south Indian breakfast--uppuma, utthapam, dosa.

If you're not staying at the Malabar in Cochin, definitely check out the lunch buffet. Yum!

[blake]

thanks again, pete and tanager. great information.

tanager, my girlfriend told me that we'd have to refrain from public signs of affection in kerala. however, she thought that the larger cities in the north would be more tolerant. it sounds like that's not the case. sucks for me.

thanks pete for bringing us back full circle. as i mentioned in my intial post, the last thing i want to do is take on too much.

great news about the coffee in kerala. i do adore coffee.

[Pete C]

Originally posted by blake
my girlfriend told me that we'd have to refrain from public signs of affection in kerala. .

It'll just make the private ones more meaningful.

http://www.chennaionline.com/toursntravel/ontheroad/images/khajuraho.jpg

[walto]

So, none of y'all make up as far north as Bengal--the home of my beloved avatar?

BTW, My family went to Saigon not long ago to adopt and I can't recommend it as a vacation spot.

[Pete C]

Saigon sucks, but Hanoi & Hoi An are great. However, you don't want to go now while the deadly disease is going around.

Walt, I much prefer Tagore to Tabush. I've never been to Bengal, but I've thought about nearby Orissa.

[Tanager]

I get that far North lots...just not that far East. ;)

[walto]

No pilgrimages to the homes of Ramakrishna or Tagore, eh? No Sadhana for you yet.

;>}

[BeBop]

Doing a little traveling this week. (Unlike the other 51 weeks of the year, when I'm traveling for business.) Taking it as an opportunity to post and rea what others have posted in the past year-or-so. Thought I'd ressurect this thread.

[kenny weir]

So, the 'rock' and 'hard place' I'm caught between are the spots I've already been to and the places I don't want to go because they're too touristy (Australia, New Zealand)

This is pretty far out and ill-informed.

Yes, Australia and New Zealand have tourism industries but to refer to them as "too touristy" is a fanciful stretch, especially as it seem you have travelled to neither so don't actually know what you're talking about.

[Sand]

Thanks, Mr. Cherches, for your March-23rd-2003 postings!

[mke]

Thanks, Mr. Cherches, for your March-23rd-2003 postings!
Yes, genius is so often recognised post-humously. Oh, wait...

[Pete C]

Yes, genius is so often recognised post-humously. Oh, wait...

Yes, please do wait.

[Dr Dave]

As someone who spent 10 years in the utilitarian end of travel writing ("I" was mostly forbidden) I raise my hat to Pete C, a travel writer of style and wit!

The nature of my work was such that I didn't see a lot of exotica. I mostly saw the inner workings of four- and five-star hotels. My job was to know that the Adelaide Hilton has an infinite-load floor in its main ballroom, with a street-level access large enough to admit a 40-foot tractor-trailer. You get the idea.

On the other hand, I did get the occasional treat. I highly recommend Capetown, South Africa, for its incredible beauty and its amazing nightlife. (Musicians don't get paid much in Cape Town. So it's not at all uncommon to walk into a small club and find a 15- or 20-piece band working.) If you want a walk on the wild side, go visit the huge shantytown that has grown up between downtown and the airport. There is this sort of cargo-cult built from miscellaneous American pop icons that is quite startling to US eyes.

Victoria Falls, on the Zaire/Zambia border, is interesting because it is a tourist destination that is in serious decline. The falls are amazing; elephants are a traffic hazard; you can eat smoked crocodile tail and filet of impala; and the customs guys at the Vic Falls airport in Zaire wear mirror shades and carry very large automatic weapons. They scared the shit out of me. (That is part of the explanation for the "in decline" part.)

Singapore: Yeah, yeah, yeah: Singapore is too modern, Singapore is boring, chewing gum is illegal, etc. Singapore is also totally cool. It really is the day after tomorrow there. But there is great funky stuff, too. The East Coast Seafood District (there are some very East Bloc overtones that come with rigid urban planning) is a complete hoot; a string of open-air restaurants where you sit--preferably with a party of about 10 or so--and eat chili crab and black pepper crab and drink Tiger beer and generally carouse. The Straits Chinese are a lot more fun--well, they're a lot sillier--than their mainland cousins. I love 'em.

The Dordogne Valley, France: You think if it's Western Europe it must be boring. You think wrong. Go in June before the tourists get there and bring your bike. Climb up to Domme. Once you've recovered from severe oxygen deficit, look around at the valley where the Hundred Years War was fought. Talk to the 80-year old proprietress of the roadhouse just outside of St. Julien de Lompon and maybe she'll tell you where the local spring is. Then you can go to E. LeClerc, buy a five-liter jug of water, pour it out in the parking lot and then go get the really good stuff right out of the ground...Steal figs from the rich Englishman's tree while he and his trophy wife are attending a wedding in Ibiza! Get totally lost on your bike near Cro-Magnon! When it rains, find a prehistoric chalk cave for shelter! Etc.

Back to Adelaide for a moment: The Barossa Valley is almost too lush with grapevines. At Yalumba, if you're lucky, you'll meet Jane Ferrari, who is a bizarre female compendium of Billy Crystal and maybe Eddie Izzard, and who knows more about making shiraz than you ever will...

Enough awready. The above is a good example of why my bosses seldom let me off the leash...Did you know that the main exhibition hall in Nice didn't have air-conditioning until 1999?

[Gary Sisco]

Costa Rica's too touristy? Only if you go where the honkies go.

Try this one and see how many tourists you encounter: Take the narrow-gauge rail ride from San Jose to Puerto Limon (one of the world's great rides, I might add, on a railroad that cost more lives to build than the entire Bush clan in all its generations are worth). Get off at any stop along the way and spend some time. Good luck finding a room. Far's that goes, have fun in Limon, too. Just make sure you don't go out for a drink much after dark.

[Gary Sisco]

You could also take a trip to Nicaragua and get a good luck at the prosperity that "democracy" has brought there. Take a local bus (if you can fit inside) or hitchike up the Pan-Am from Managua, and then hang east to Ocatal, where the pavement, such as it is, ends. Then hitch on the dirt road the 65 km from Ocatal to Jalapa. Spend a week there talking to as many people as possible. You'll never be the same.

After that, hitch to El Cua. Ditto.

[Tanager]

Yes, Australia and New Zealand have tourism industries but to refer to them as "too touristy" is a fanciful stretch, especially as it seem you have travelled to neither so don't actually know what you're talking about.

Gotta agree with Kenny as far as Oz goes. It's very, very easy to get off the beaten track in a place that big. And it's well worth doing so.

[Gary Sisco]

Here's another. Take a plane to Kingston, JA. Hand a taxi driver $50 US and tell him you want a six pack and a bud this long, and for him to drive you out into the boons, wherever his family's from.

[Slurpy]

It's the phone system from another planet, Mr. Cherches thinks. There is no logic to the phone system in India. Sometimes the area codes have changed. Sometimes new prefixes have been added to existing phone numbers. But as often phone numbers are just swapped--for instance, a hotel's number is assigned to a private residence and the hotel is given a number that has been taken away from somebody else. Sometimes the new owner of an old number will have the old owner's new number handy, sometimes not. Sometimes a nonworking number will lead to a constant busy signal and no explanatory message, while sometimes you will get a message to "check your number." "Information," or "Phone Inquiry," if and when you can reach it, will as often as not have the old, obsolete number. Don't visit India if you have a low threshold for frustration, Mr. Cherches advises.

And THESE PEOPLE ARE IN CHARGE OF OUR CALL CENTERS??!!! (slaps
forehead)

Very nice, Pete. Thanks. But why does Mr. Cherches refer to himself in the
third person?

[Slurpy]

As someone who spent 10 years in the utilitarian end of travel writing ("I" was mostly forbidden) I raise my hat to Pete C, a travel writer of style and wit!

Oops, mea culpa, Pete. Shoulda kept reading before spouting off.

As far as vacation destination suggestions: Try Texas! It's like whole
nother country.

And, Gary. Yeah, I've heard that works in Jamaica.

[tippy]

Here's another. Take a plane to Kingston, JA. Hand a taxi driver $50 US and tell him you want a six pack and a bud this long, and for him to drive you out into the boons, wherever his family's from.

For real? That sounds pretty dangerous.

[stonemonkts]

I'd like to visit Iceland. I'm attracted to northern climes. Baffin Island is another place I'd like to hike around in.

It was odd to read the names of places considered "too touristy".

I'd love to experience many places but I loathe the plane rides. My ex-boss used to swear by Bali.

[Pete C]

I'd like to visit Iceland. I'm attracted to northern climes. Baffin Island is another place I'd like to hike around in.

It was odd to read the names of places considered "too touristy".

I'd love to experience many places but I loathe the plane rides. My ex-boss used to swear by Bali.

I've only heard great things about Iceland.

I'd swear by Bali too. I stayed a week in Ubud. The island is one of the most beautiful places on earth, and the Balinese, in general, are wonderfully sweet, gentle people. It seems that everybody in Bali is an artist of some sort.

I can't be as effusive about Java, though (I stayed in Yogyakarta), although there are amazing things to see there.

[Dr Dave]

My sister's boyfriend used to be the chef at the American Embassy in Reykjavik. I saw his pictures of walks on the glacier--quite beautiful, in a severe way.

PS: If you spend any time in Reykjavik, be prepared for a LOT of vodka.

[Tanager]

And THESE PEOPLE ARE IN CHARGE OF OUR CALL CENTERS??!!!?

No, they're not. If your indication is that Indians generally are too incompetent to run call centers for US companies (which is, I think, a reasonable reading of what you wrote), then you probably need to rethink what you meant to say. If you simply mean that, ohmigod, is the state-run Indian phone monopoly in charge of our call centers, then, no, in fact, the one has nothing to do with the other. FWIW, the Indian Institute of Technology, which is essentially the multi-campus national engineering and science university in India, is roundly considered one of the finest providers of undergraduate engineering and technical education in the world. The entrepreneurs starting and running those call center outsourcing operations are quite competent and intelligent, for the most part.

[Jazzzoline]

Bhutan

[Dr Dave]

No, they're not. If your indication is that Indians generally are too incompetent to run call centers for US companies (which is, I think, a reasonable reading of what you wrote), then you probably need to rethink what you meant to say. If you simply mean that, ohmigod, is the state-run Indian phone monopoly in charge of our call centers, then, no, in fact, the one has nothing to do with the other. FWIW, the Indian Institute of Technology, which is essentially the multi-campus national engineering and science university in India, is roundly considered one of the finest providers of undergraduate engineering and technical education in the world. The entrepreneurs starting and running those call center outsourcing operations are quite competent and intelligent, for the most part.

That's why they're in charge of so many U.S. corporate call centers. Oddly enough. India's problem has never been lack of home-grown talent. Their problem is they learned public administration from the British. ;)

[jesus marion joseph]

I'm checking tickets to Kingston on Expedia...........

[Ron Thorne]

Many thanks to BeBop for resurrecting this thread, which I missed the first time around for some reason. What a wealth of information and *great* writing. Had to use the old-school *'s again.

[BeBop]

The good news is that it's nice to have five minutes to check in at JazzCorner. And it's nice to see interest in travel, even if my comment about 'touristy' was taken the wrong way.

I'm tackling the tough places while I'm still relatively young and saving those places without a developed tourist infrastructure (airports, hotels...) for when I'm even more of a geezer.

For now, this Arabic keyboard is about to drive me "é'(è_é"ç nuts.

BTW, I enjoyed Bhutan quite a bit. Bangla too.

[Cem]

For now, this Arabic keyboard is about to drive me "é'(è_é"ç nuts.ı héar ğöü löüd € cléar!










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