Turntable advice

[Chris D]

So my vaunted old Dual is giving up the ghost. I'd like to get a new belt-drive table, and I want to spend in the area of $400, not much more, for sure.

So far, I've been drifting toward either one of the Music Hall models, the
Pro-Ject Debut III and the Thorens TD 170, which comes with a decent Ortofon cartridge mounted.

Anyone bought a 'table lately? Pros, cons of my targeted models? Where the heck is shrugs anyway?

[Dr Dave]

I'm not in your league. I bought a Sony turntable with a built-in preamp for $119. I use it only for transfering LPs to CD.

[Brian Olewnick]

I'm in the same boat as Chris, I think. My Nikko linear-tracking turntable, bought around 1988 seems, after several fits and starts, to refuse to work any longer. Frustrating as the mechanism is sealed away inside its body so I can't even pretend to tinker with it. Looking for a simple model in the area of $200.

[Deke]

I have one turntable by a company called Revolver (Clever, eh? No? Then how come no one else thought of it, huh? Hah? Hey?) The platter spins on a spindle that 'floats' on a very thin layer of oil. I was told that I'd need to replace the oil occasionally, but so far (About 2 decades on) it's still functioning beautifully. Unfortunately it has a very light pick up, which bounces on some of my more... well played albums (OK, the ones that have been stored badly or left where the sun can get at them...), so for that I have a Gerrard 301 with a Decca/London arm and pickup, which tracks at quite a hefty weight (Everything being relative) and can't be thrown off anything that doesn't buck so much that it physically hits the arm. Of course, playing singles on either of these machines is a pain, so I also have a Garrard auto changer... plus, almost under my feet as I type, I have my original 'Dansette' type of all-in-one player, which I get a real jolt out of turning on and spinning a few platters occasionally. The smell as it warms up never fails to take me back to the days when finding a 'new' Link Wray track in a 2nd hand shop was a matter of such celebration that I literally shook with anticipation when I put it on.

Where did those days go? I can't remember the last time I anticipated a new record that way.

[Ron Thorne]

Sorry, but I can't offer any advice with respect to current technology, Chris.

For the sake of nostalgia, I'll mention (once again) my love for my old Rek-O-Kut K34H turntable, which I built from a "kit", upon which I placed a Grado Laboratory Series arm (mahogany w/machined aluminum) and cartridge some four decades ago. It's still a thing of beauty and sonic excellence, though not installed at this time. I still own them, and they're in impeccable condition. One of these days ...

I've been searching online for a photo of the K34H and Grado arm with no success, thus far. I could take a digital photograph of mine and share, if anyone's interested.

The replacement belts are still available for an amazing $10.00 here (http://www.turntablebasics.com/belts/rekokut.html). I've seen them as high as $37.50. I'm assuming that the R-34H is the retail version of the K-34H "kit".

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Interesting timing for this thread. I've just set up my new Denon turntable on my main listening area and just the other day, when I was playing a disc on my old Technics SL-3, it sounded weird and a check of the belt shows it's about dead. Now I have to find a belt (and that link Ron gave doesn't have my belt) or finally buckle down and get a Music Hall MMF 2.1. I'm actually more likely to scrounge around AudiogoN (http://www.audiogon.com) for a slightly used MMF 5.

BTW, I don't have a Music Hall, but during my recent esearch, their rep seems pretty good out there. I only bought the Denon because I get an incredible deal on their stuff. It seems OK so far.

I mounted my TT to the wall to get it isolated from my subwoofer. I had a friend make me a 18"x16"x2" slab of walnut, not unlike the ones here (http://www.timbernation.com/Images/PopUp/ma.jpg). Of course, my buddy was able to do it for about half the cost but it looks about half as nice. :)

Later,
Kevin

[bostontricky]

I'm not in your league. I bought a Sony turntable with a built-in preamp for $119. I use it only for transfering LPs to CD.

Dave, tell me more. This makes more sense to me than coughing up $30 or so to have each album transfered to CD.

Any advice on tape decks for transfering tapes to CD?

[Gentle Giant]

I probably only play about two dozen LPs a year and I'm happy with my Denon, but for years I've been trying to buy a good-condition, under-$75 model of my very first turntable for purely nostalgic, first-love reasons. It was a Technics SL-220 belt drive, S-arm and the most wonderdul warm-orange strobe light, which I used to stare at while listening at night in my darkened room, under the influence and digging it all! e-Bay lists a fair amount of them, but they're either beat up or people are asking too much for them.

Someday....

[Ron Thorne]

Kevin, it looks as if you can get a replacement drive belt for your SL-3 here (http://www.elexatelier.com/technics.htm) for $17.80.

LP Gear (http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=LG&Category_Code=T) seems to be another good source for such replacements. Same cost as the other site.

[stonemonkts]

I've been able to save money buying replacement stylii from Needle Doctor (http://www.needledoctor.com/)

They also have some great deals on turntables too.

[clinthopson]

My 30 year old direct drive Sansui still keeps cranking on. I check the speed every so often and it's been right on. I have to replace the cartidge every several years and stick with the old, dependable top of the line Shures.

[Chris D]

Glad to hear of your good fortune, clint, but I won't be getting a direct-drive anything. Keep spinnin'!

Needle Doctor I knew about, and they do indeed have some deals. (Brian, they have a surprising amount of product in your price range,)

I'm looking more for consumer-user advice on which 'tables are most durable and sound best. I know shrugs (paging shrugs, come in, shrugs) had some things to say about Music Halls being a little tricky to dial in.

I'd really like to get a Thorens because I've lusted after them since my teen years, but if the build quality isn't good, for instance, I'd like to know.

[Ron Thorne]

Until Shrugs appears, you might spend a few days checking out the wealth of information here (http://www.theanalogdept.com/thorens_dept_.htm) on various Thorens turntables. ;) And drool over the Teres Model 135 turntable on the same site.

Reading this page (http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?ranlg&1078601525&read&3&4&) made me more than a little anxious about owning an entry level Thorens TT, however.

The Rega P2 has me intrigued for a TT under $500.00. Reviewed here (http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?ranlg&1027200214&read&3&4&) in considerable detail on AudiogoN Forums.

http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/rv/s/f/1027198027.jpg


Just having some fun doin' some sleuthing until Shrugs arrrives on-the-scene.

[Chris D]

Ron,
Thanks a lot. That one review has pretty much killed my interest in that Thorens. I'll keep looking around.

Anybody have any working knowledge of the Pro-Ject 'tables? I've seen them talked up as great values in ads and from dealers, but I haven't heard from anyone who's owned one.

[Ron Thorne]

No problem, Chris. This has been a lot of fun, actually.

Here are some consumer comments (http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1093106168&read&keyw&zzproject+turntable) on the Pro-Ject 1.2 and RM4 turntables from AudiogoN Forums. That seems to be a very informative site with some no BS info.

Here are some consumer recommendations for turntables under $500.00 (http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1085107165&read&keyw&zzproject+turntable).

I keep reading really positive things about Rega just about everywhere I go online.

I'm pretty sure that if/when I either get my Rek-O-Kut or something else up and running, I'll likely buy at least a Red Grado cartridge.

[GoodSpeak]

I've got two Technics turntables that run like a Champ.

[Chris D]

OK. Finally sealed the deal.

As some may know, I was in a car wreck that totaled my vehicle. Insurance paid out more than what I owed on the car, so I felt justified (the "pain and suffering" clause) to go up to $500.

Was checking around on Audiogon and saw that a one-week-old Music Hall MMF-5 was traded in. The cat wanted $468 plus shipping (pretty good deal on a 'table now retailing for $566 to $600). Gave him a ring. That table was gone, but he'd sell me an MMF-5 new in the box for the same price. (Music Hall has since upgraded the MMF-5 to the SE model to sell for a couple of hundred more; not sure everything they did to it.)

Anyway, I should soon have my glass-platter MMF-5 up and running. I think the first record I'll play is the 180-gram pressing of Coltrane's "Live at Birdland." Whoo-hoo!

[Chris D]

Aw, man, is the MMF-5 a sweet machine! It was a little touchy to dial in -- the counterweight was pretty sensitive -- but once there, it showed an early grace.

(The Goldring cartridge takes a while to burn in, so it'll only get better.)

First off, it just looks cool. Sleek, with that glass platter all modern and Euro looking.

Anthony got the first say on what record to play -- he was very patient as I set it up, so I gave him the option. "Rubber Soul, daddy. Rubber Soul!" So it was (British Parlophone, first pressing). "Drive My Car" just leaped forth. The soundstage is impressive, with each instrument distinct in its space, lots of air around each instrument. "Norwegian Wood" came out so three-dimensional you could almost touch John's voice.


Next, "Live at Birdland." Trane was even more a force of nature, and Elvin's drums had such a natural feel.

"Monk/Rollins": "The Way You Look Tonight." Oh. My. Goodness. Magisterial. This has always sounded great (early OJC pressing), but now Sonny was in the middle of the living room. Later on the same side, "Work" had all of Monk's flavors in a distinct rainbow, and Blakey's drumming was present in a way I hadn't heard before. Every rim tap, tom flare, cymbal ride was so tangible. This table-cartridge combo really does cymbals well: The sizzle of the attack is there, and the decay is very warm and natural. Not something you get on the vast majority of CD setups.

Blakey also showed well on the '70s-era pressing (UA vintage) of "The Big Beat." Every press rol, particularly on "Dat Dere," was so palpable. Morgan's soul and Shorter's elliptical lines were also out front in a very pleasing, natural way.

Now on to one of the rock reference records: Roxy Music's "Avalon" Holy moly! Big, full, rich, clean.

I can't say how stupidly, grinningly happy I am with this 'table, especially with the prospect that the reproduction will only get better. It's like I just got 3,000 new records.

http://www.needledoctor.com/core/media/media.nl?id=41&c=ACCT106601&h=37ce708a3ac2cd7d5602