Miles Davis - In Person at the Blackhawk, San Francisco (Complete)

[gnhrtg]

Nate - here's one person who appreciates such citation. I actually have a sense of how the music sounds after reading your reviews and (this being an exception) a lot of stuff you review is not decently covered elsewhere.

[Nate Dorward]

Oh, thanks for the kind words!

Oh well, I guess I'll simply never fathom the amount of enthusiasm for this set. It was probably the most disappointing CD purchase I made last year.

[Cem]

As with other writers, I have to read between the lines with Nate, as I now know (& cannot comprehend) his thoughts on this set AND Vandermark!! I do believe he's a fine writer, though...

[Nate Dorward]

Well, those are two different cases--there are plenty of Miles Davis albums I like a lot, just not this one; with Vandermark I've yet to hear anything that I found especially interesting.

[gnhrtg]

You might have been through this with a number of people but would you mind listing what you've heard? And is it Vandermark's playing only (in which case I might empathize if not agree with you - Vandermark is a bit short on both traditional and extended techniques and I can really hear that this does get in the way of his improvising at times, still I think he has good taste and measure) or have you yet to dig any album by a group/project led, if onyl nominally, by Vandermark?

edit: "Enough" is a perfectly acceptable answer to what you've heard as I myself am finding; with some musicians a couple of albums can forfecully convey certain aspects of their style.

[Nate Dorward]

Oh, I'm sure I've not heard all his best work--but after a while you just give up hope. So far:

1) live concert by the KDVM5 in Toronto at the NOW Lounge (this was just after Rempis joined the band)

2) the Broetzmann tentet a couple years later in St George the Martyr

3) the FME disk on Okkadisk

4) Airports for Light

5) the bonus disc of Rollins covers

Could've sworn there was a sixth thing in there too but I forget. Anyway, of these the only stinker was the FME disc, which was boring as hell (& truthfully, I ended up virtually comatose during the KVDM5 concert too, despite sitting at a table next to the stand); the rest was in the "OK but I'm not excited about it either" category. Vandermark's playing is certainly one of the problems--he just seems to me the dullest player on the stand no matter the situation. Anyway, with any artist, five encounters is about my limit before I just give up & move onto to someone else.

[stonemonkts]

I was curious about which ones you've heard too. Fwiw, the ones I have I like very much (Live in Wels & Chicago; Simpatico; Acoustic Machine.)

[Nate Dorward]

Yeah I get the feeling I may simply be unfortunate.....though most KVDM fans seemed to be pretty keen on the last two items on the list (at the time of release I recall there were a number of postings on JC claiming Airports as the best KDVM5 disc ever, though I get the impression that reality set in later on).

[BFrank]

Hey, you guys are killin' me.
Why don't you start a KVDM thread?

[gnhrtg]

BFrank - you might have noticed that we also did not start a praise Nate's writing music or what the heck was that lampooning anyway thread. You might also see that the discussion ended coming to KV as Cem's response to what I, or Nate, said and my reaction to what he said. It's on music and there was no concerted action to hijack the thread. Oh and there's another thread that was more active and contained lots of other posters' opinion on this release and as far as I can ascertain not many others are dying to re-join the discussion. At least the talk is still on music.

Nate - Five is generous. The disc of Rollins covers is a good representative, I'd say, of the group playing in good form. Although again, Rempis ends up delivering the better solos. As for V5 releases, "Acoustic Machine", "Simpatico", and "Burn the Incline" are all better than "Airports for Light". Airports for Light was a bit inconsistent, though there's some pretty quality blowing on some tracks (which I mentioned in the relevant thread in this section). My memory's a bit vague but the first track off FME is how Vandermark characteristically builds a solo, just so you know. If you have a chance listen to his solos on the two Monk tracks on Mengelberg's "Two Days in Chicago" and if you're still not interested, I'd say save your cash. In case you see something cheap or decide to give him another go, try School Days' "In Our Times" (and not the first one "Crossing Division", which really pales in comparison to "In Our Times"), DKV Trio's "Live in Wels & Chicago" (again "Trigonometry" is also quite good but less so than this one), Territory Bands' are both fine, the first one more jazzy and less based on tune structures (and more on solos) than the second. "Free Fall" I haven't heard enough times yet to pass judgment on. Spaceways Inc's are big, fun, funky records but won't do much to change your opinion of Vandermark's playing. Independent of what I think of him (mostly positive) he plays with interesting and able players in diverse format so I end up getting almost all of it though not always for his involvement.

[Nate Dorward]

BF: sorry, but I was asked....... & yeah, I think most of what people had to say about the Blackhawk set got posted in that thread.

Thanks for the rec's for Vandermark--well, can't say I'll exactly hunt them out, but it's nice to know which are his better ones. Which Monk tunes does he cover on the Mengelberg? If he can do a good job on them, & they ain't, say, "Blue Monk", then I'll have to upgrade my estimate of his jazz chops. My impression has always been of an OK r'n'b player more than a jazz player really. The FME disc in particular gave this impression--the way he seems very confined by the one-chord tunes & the beat & barlines.

[gnhrtg]

"Eronel" and "Off Minor" - this one's available as a mid-priced double disc set.

I listen to the music as more of what comes out of improvisation but I'd agree that his imporvisations are not really harmonically sophisticated or that they come from abstract conceptions - I hear him playing with and developing motifs or playing off the rhythm section at times.

[baksheesh]

That cover is great! Frances looks scared to death.... and she probably was.

To the moon alice!

Man that is extremely funny, but very, very dark humour! As any fule no' who's read the Quincy Troupe Miles' autobio.
'Nuff said 'bout the off colour jokes, on to the music. I think the period '61, through '65 is just as much a continuous embarassment of riches Mileswise as any other in his career. It's 99.9% good, and most of it is stellar. That's pretty much the only way a group like this could get at all overlooked - and a wowser like Mobley gets dissed, essentially speaking just for the crime of not being Coltrane or Shorter (I'm paraphrasing someone else's opinion here I know).
This was a great, great band - Mobley is amazing, melodic quicksilver, Wynton is absolutely dazzling and quicker than a cat, whilst Miles is really on tiptop form. The rhythm boys are outasight particularly on a track like Oleo or T(N)eo.
It's a great precursor to all the live stuff just around the corner, that was featured on the Seven Steps box set. In a sense they're all interchangeable, whether Wynton or Hancock is on piano, or Mobley, Coleman or Rivers is on sax. I certainly don't mean that they compare to the Second Quintet once Shorter turns up - when it's obviously on its way to becoming something totally other.I turn to live Miles from this era when I need a quick and sure quality fix, and this album is just as much a contender as Live in Antibes, Tokyo or The Philharmonic Concert.