James Carter fans unite!

[shrugs]

I gotta agree. I caught Carter live during the infancy of my minionhood and it was obvious he loved the attention he garnered from deeeeeep blowing.
That said, the Django and electric cd's from a few years ago are good documents.

[Peterdubya]

That's wy i liked this Django thing, it was a band that could match his chops, but he had to play through the changes with less room for excess.

and it tastes great too

[John L]

Good to see all the admiration for James Carter here. I sure wish that we could hear the recent live album that the critics were so hyped about not long ago, but was never released.

It took me a while to get off the fence, but I am definitely a card-carrying member of the James Carter fan club. I loved "Layin' in the Cut" from start to finish. Almost every other Carter album has brilliant moments as well, although I generally agree with some of Chris D's reservations.

[Mike Schwartz]

Reynolds;

Shocked at your previous statement; after all, you lead the league every year in EXTREME EXCESS;-))

[Bill Barton]

Originally posted by Mike Schwartz
Reynolds;

Shocked at your proceeding statement; after all, you lead the league every year in EXTREME EXCESS;-))

Yes, quite delightfully amusing...

And, hey, a little "techno bravura" every now and again isn't necessarily a bad thing. Sometimes I'm in the mood for it, sometimes I'm not.

[Steve Reynolds]

now and then maybe


on Jurassic Classics - he does it on EVERY track

[Jazzzoline]

I heard his next album is coming soon, and would be about Billie Holliday. Anyone has news?

[gnhrtg]

Count me in as another would be member. As far as I can tell - yep, the guy's hugely talented.

His playing on Steve Turre's TNT, on 4 cuts I if memory serves, nicely sums up his style. Of his output as a leader, I would recommend Conversin' with the Elders or Chasin' the Gypsy first followed by the others. I really love his tone, his mannerisms with the honks and all that stuff, and al the licks and ideas he got from Lockjaw and Griffin (among many others, surely). Even though listening to any of his recordings puts a smile on my face, I would agree with Steve that he might have pushed things a little over the top in Jurassic Standards - if I recall correctly, I think he has a line that goes for a couple of choruses with his circular breathing thing on "Out of Nowhere" I still enjoy that album a lot, though it wouldn't be my first recommendation for someone new to Carter (unless (s)he were a sax player).

I had seen his Live at somewhere Lounge at jazzmatazz for over a year now as coming up but we get this strings album before that live thing - supposed to come out from WB Jazz.

By the way, I had heard a short blues track with Carter and Redman both on tenor and if you can find this it's worth a hear for Carter's wild stuff.

[Sergio Zamora]

Originally posted by Uli
Count me as the first to complain about the chilli wind we have to endure in the community.

[Jazzzoline]

Originally posted by gnhrtg
By the way, I had heard a short blues track with Carter and Redman both on tenor and if you can find this it's worth a hear for Carter's wild stuff.

It's called "Blues in the dark" from the movie soundtrack "Kansas city".

[lgoler]

Is there any room in here for someone who doesn't get what all the fuss is about? James is an accomplished musician, no question about that. However, his playing doesn't hit me in the place that makes me wonder where his artistry comes from, in other words, there is no mystery. He just hangs it all out there with one big, I'll hit you over the head with it. A poor man's Rahsaan or Jaws IMO. Saw him leading a group on BET the other night, a not so good attempt at funk-jazz. BTW, great story by the guy who went to camp with him.

[gnhrtg]

I'll be seeing Carter leading an organ trio on the 10th of December in Paris. I just can't wait. (I've never seen him live before)

Jazzzoline - "Blues in the Dark" it was, thanks for the reminder.

[Nate Dorward]

Originally posted by lgoler
Is there any room in here for someone who doesn't get what all the fuss is about? James is an accomplished musician, no question about that. However, his playing doesn't hit me in the place that makes me wonder where his artistry comes from, in other words, there is no mystery. He just hangs it all out there with one big, I'll hit you over the head with it. A poor man's Rahsaan or Jaws IMO. Saw him leading a group on BET the other night, a not so good attempt at funk-jazz. BTW, great story by the guy who went to camp with him.

Oh sure, some of his stuff is tasteless. But I'd stand by the various rec's of The Real Quietstorm here: it's one of the most sheerly pretty jazz discs of the 1990s. It's got the odd showoff gesture (an entire A section of "Round Midnight" is a high held note) but it's a very listenable album. In Carterian Fashion is pretty good, too.

[Peterdubya]

His new CD "Gardenias for Lady Day" got mailed to radio and press last week. It's on Columbia, James with John Hicks, Peter Washington and Victor Lewis and others including a vocalist who I didn't care for...
The CD is nice, have only listened to it once.
He will tour behind the disk next year and it might be with the same band, which I think would be a good thing.
James needs musicians of this calliber to exchange ideas with and be pushed by.

[Paul B]

A great classical musician recently referred to super-hyped classical pianist Lang Lang as the "J-Lo of the piano." One could say the same thing about Carter. How anybody can find his music worth listening to is beyond me. I've heard him live many times, and on record, and the experience is always the same.

A musician I know who was invited, along with many others, to play at Frank Lowe's funeral recounted how Carter, when it was his turn to play in a group jam, played a 10-15 minute solo when everyone else was playing 2-3 minutes. This musician felt that not only was Carter's musical display tasteless and absolutely without soul, but was made worse by Carter's absurd sartorial flair. He was decked out in an expensive Italian suit with all the trimmings--something Frank Lowe even in his best days would probably never have worn, much less been able to afford. The whole scenario sort of sums up Carter: all flash, no substance--certainly no taste.

The same unschooled people rushing out to bujy Lang Lang records--because the media tells them he's the big new thing--obviously have their counterparts in the jazz world.

Bye-ya.

[Peterdubya]

The same unschooled people rushing out to bujy Lang Lang records--because the media tells them he's the big new thing--obviously have their counterparts in the jazz world.

Hey Paul,
Don't put yourself down for buying James Carter records. The important thing is that you grow from the experience.
Bye ya con dios amigo.

[chuckyd4]

Originally posted by Paul B
A great classical musician recently referred to super-hyped classical pianist Lang Lang as the "J-Lo of the piano." One could say the same thing about Carter.

If this were true, I would rush out to buy the next J. Lo disc. If it is really "beyond" anyone to comprehend how Carter's music is enjoyable, then they need to spend a few minutes out of the clouds. Whether or not a paragon of taste, the man has a definite showman's bone or two in his body... God forbid somebody enjoy a jazz show these days without needing to write an essay about why!

[Nate Dorward]

Paul (B): I'm interested to note that you twice in the same post just now put down musicians by citing unnamed but apparently authoritative sources ("a great classical musician" & "a musician I know"). Why the circuitous route? If you don't like the guy, fine, but I don't see why saying authority X, Y or Z hates musician A or B is terribly clinching, even if they were signed tesimonials as opposed to casual hearsay. If I paid fervid attention to the opinions of even the most eminent musicians, I'd be throwing out half of my record collection (at least). & though there are plenty of musicians I've no time for, I'd be pretty hesitant to assume that just because I don't see anything in it, I can pass judgment not only on the artist but on the intelligence, taste & competence of anyone who differs from me. There's a big difference between stated dislike & the mounting of a high horse.

[Paul B]

The classical musician in question was Earl Wild, in a New Yorker profile about two months ago. As for the jazz musician, he's a working player in New York with half a dozen albums to his credit; I have no problem keeping him annonymous.

OK, back to your Carter lovefest. Enjoy.

Bye-ya.

[Tom Storer]

I sort of enjoyed "Quiet Storm" but didn't warm up to "Jurassic Classics" at all. Then I saw him live, and that did it.

I haven't listened to him since. That was years ago.

The show I saw was dreadful. Carter's vaunted technique was displayed in the most tasteless, disjointed, egotistical, unaesthetic, ugly, boring fashion. He was hamming it up and doing nothing *but* hamming it up, seemingly unable to actually listen to the music and build interesting solos because he was so busy watching himself be a big, bad star. It was so bad it was excruciating.

It probably isn't fair of me to have just written him off, but I have trouble getting over really unpleasant live experiences. Maybe I'll give him another try. gnhrtg, where's he playing in Paris?

[gnhrtg]

Cite de la Musique with Gerard Gibbs on Hammond and Leonard King on drums; the tickets are €24.

[Derek Taylor]

Count me as a Carter fan. I only have a small handful of his albums as a leader, all already mentioned. But his sideman appearances are also often very entertaining, most notably in Bluiett’s Baritone groups (Live at the Knitting Factory is a nice slab of raw cane sugar), The Saxemble, and Julius Hemphill’s Sextet.

Paul B, I’m with Nate on your suspect method of dismissing JC’s merits. Sort of the same tack you took re: the Vision Fest on a recent thread in the Live Music forum. If you don’t like something/someone, cool. But why the need to grouse & pontificate with nose-upturned? And for what it’s worth, Mr. Lowe was a fine flashy dresser in the best sense of the phrase.

[Jazzzoline]

Originally posted by Paul B
A great classical musician recently referred to super-hyped classical pianist Lang Lang as the "J-Lo of the piano." One could say the same thing about Carter. How anybody can find his music worth listening to is beyond me. I've heard him live many times, and on record, and the experience is always the same.

A musician I know who was invited, along with many others, to play at Frank Lowe's funeral recounted how Carter, when it was his turn to play in a group jam, played a 10-15 minute solo when everyone else was playing 2-3 minutes. This musician felt that not only was Carter's musical display tasteless and absolutely without soul, but was made worse by Carter's absurd sartorial flair. He was decked out in an expensive Italian suit with all the trimmings--something Frank Lowe even in his best days would probably never have worn, much less been able to afford. The whole scenario sort of sums up Carter: all flash, no substance--certainly no taste.

The same unschooled people rushing out to bujy Lang Lang records--because the media tells them he's the big new thing--obviously have their counterparts in the jazz world.

Bye-ya.

When I spend many bucks on jazz tickets, I don't expect the artists to show up wearing rags. But surprisingly, some do.
This said, I've seen James Carter concert only once. I knew about his reputation. He showed up wearing an elegant suit which was fine with me because I like nice clothes myself. The entire concert was of the most " sobre ", and I didnt expect some kind of "Mariachi". Nothing else but James Carter's talent. And the whole concert was excellent.

Hmm, could you tell the unschooled person that I am *grins* what "non Lang Lang" record you would suggest for me to buy?

[bluenoter]

Every day I find out how much I still have to learn. Why, I didn't know that a musician's clothes had any bearing on the quality of his or her performance!

It must be true, though. Paul B has cited an anonymous "expert" who says so!

[Pete C]

Imagine how great Miles could have been if he had only dressed more humbly!

Anyway, I'm neutral on Carter.

When we do the JC movie, let's cast Clifton Webb as Paul B.

[Nate Dorward]

Paul--my point wasn't about the anonymity of the sources but about the whole idea of argument-by-authority. After all, Shakespeare is complete crap--George Bernard Shaw said so--& so is Milton (quoth TS Eliot), Mozart (says Xenakis), the entire bebop movement (Louis Armstrong), &c. I.e.: so what?

Tom: yeah seeing a truly hideous live concert can really put the kibosh on one's enthusiasm..... My own bete noir is the drummer Jerry Granelli, who can actually sound OK in a studio but I now find it hard to get the mental picture of him out of my head after a few concerts. I've never seen a musician more disgustingly visibly in rapture with his own playing--every single gesture. A shit-eating grin on his face.

[lazarus]

[Cem]

I had high hopes for James Carter. He'd created quite a buzz in the mid to late '90's as this young lion to watch out for. Then, one jazz festival I kinda got to hear him live. He had this great band with him, but they showed up something like 45 minutes to an hour late for a weekday midnight show. I guess the mc should have (maybe did?) apologized for the late start, but I kinda thought it would've been the decent thing to do for Carter to acknowledge the delay and apologize or something.

The place was packed with grumpy, sleepy people. Instead they saunter on the stage ultra-cocky and so distant to the audience, not a warm vibe in the room. Carter goes:"Not past anyone's bed time is it?" That was the moment i wrote him off. I was ready to jump up and scream at him; "Hey dipshit, do you have to get up at 5:30 in the morning and get to work? I do!" of course, I didn't say it. I was still too shy back then. That wasn't even the reason for my anger. It was their general attitude.

Contrary to popular belief, normally, I do have a sense of humour and I don't remember basing my opinion of a musician solely on their attitude, since high school. I don't know what happened, but, somehow, James Carter made me hate his music with his attitude, before I got a chance to hear him play. And the playing...man...it was all posturing and going through the motions. Maybe, it was an off night, but I'll never forgive him. I was sitting front and centre and after the first number, I split.

I got JC on the Set and I rarely listen to it. Sorry, long, boring 'dote...

[Tom Storer]

Originally posted by bluenoter
Every day I find out how much I still have to learn. Why, I didn't know that a musician's clothes had any bearing on the quality of his or her performance!

Actually, BN, a performance can reasonably be considered to include aspects other than the sound track. It used to be considered de rigueur to make an effort to look good when performing in front of an audience - not necessarily suit and tie, but good nonetheless. This isn't really of prime importance, of course. I've seen some brilliant musicians who were dressed as they might be to watch a video in their living room while munching snacks: unattractive, ill-fitting clothes, disintegrating sneakers - comfortable, no doubt, but casual to the point of sloppiness. And of course an elegant suit won't disguise bad music. Personally I don't care much how musicians look, but I do like it when it seems they care about how they look. It indicates self-respect and respect for the audience.

Clothes and "attitude" are clues to who the musicians are, how they feel about themselves and the audience, and we do react to that, and not only to the music. No matter how brilliant a musician he is, Keith Jarrett has alienated many potential fans by what they see as a haughty attitude on stage (interrupting a performance to scold the audience when someone coughs, etc.). James Carter's flashy clothes probably only make a negative impression when they reinforce the impression of flashiness made by the music itself, i.e. shallow and concerned with attention-getting effects.

[mke]

Tom,

Doesn't your post belong on the "Music and Theater" thread? Hmm?