Tennis Thread

[Tanager]

I suspect this thread might go over like a lead balloon, but who knows...

I'm a big tennis fan and was wondering if there were any others out there. I've been impressed with Roddick's play of late, although I still maintain he has some flaws he needs to correct (for the record, I don't really like his game, and I'm not a huge fan, but he is playing the best tennis on the tour at this moment).

Just for the sake of discussion, here are my picks for the US Open:

Champion: Agassi (sentimental pick, and how many more does he have left in him? He lost last year to Pete, maybe he won't be denied this year.)

Runner-up: Roddick (He'll get some freebies on the serve, but Agassi is still the best returner in the game, and he should be able to get in and cut that kick serve off on the rise. Agassi's also just got lots more court sense than Roddick at this stage.)

Semifinals: Federer and Nalbandian (Federer's not a tough pick, but Nalbandian's been putting together some good play this Summer, proving that his Wimbledon finals appearance wasn't just a fluke. I'm probably going out on a limb, but what the hell. Hewiit's in the tank of late. I could have picked Srichapan or Ferrero here, too - it's about time for Juan Carlos to get some results on a surface not named "clay.")

Dark horse: It's the popular pick of late, but after watching his play against Roddick this past Sunday, I'm officially on the Mardy Fish bandwagon. God bless serve-and-volley tennis.

On the ladies' side:

Champion: Justine Henin-Hardenne (She's been playing the most consistent tennis of late, plain and simple, IMHO)

Runner-up: Venus Williams (She can get to the semis just b/c she's good enough, but her head's in a strange place of late, she might not even get this far, despite the fact that she's the best player out there other than her sis.)

Semifinals: Kim Clijsters (she doesn't seem to play well under pressure, and being "#1" hasn't helped her thus far, but I think she'll make it this far) and Capriati (loves the hard courts best of all surfaces, tough to pick against in NYC)

Dark horse: Hrm, really not a "dark horse", but why not a run deep into the late rounds, maybe even the semis, for Chanda Rubin?

[Scott Dolan]

Well, I'll tell you this, if Chandra Rubin can just get her consistancy down, she would definitely be in the running for the win. She has already proven that she can beat the sisters. She has awesome power, and great movement. But her focus seems to wane at all the wrong times.

Henin-Hardenne? Really? I haven't seen her that much, I will admit, but it still seems an odd pick.

Capriati would be my dark horse. But you know, you can never tell what kind of shape she'll show up in. I still think that when she's at peak condition, there really aren't many who can beat her. And she certainly has the power and the range to hang with the sisters.

Are the slut and the sexy Swiss miss doing the doubles thing again this year?

I like Agassi, but you know, I think a name I'd add to your list would be Philippoussis. He's won here before, and has looked pretty decent since his comeback. And didn't he knock off Agassi at Wimbledon? I know Agassi is better on the hard stuff, and he might have the advantage due to the fact that Philippoussis won't be able to live off of his serve here as much as he did on the grass, but, hmmmm..................

I would be shocked if Roddick makes it to the finals. I think his attitude is his biggest downfall, but other than that, I just haven't seen the drive in him that you would expect from championship caliber players. Lots of raw talent, but sometimes he just doesn't seem to care.

I'm not nearly as familiar with tennis as you are, but I'll do my best to help you keep this thread afloat.

[GoodSpeak]

I play racquetball...does that count?

[mke]

Originally posted by Scott Dolan
Are the slut and the sexy Swiss miss doing the doubles thing again this year?

Who are these two?

[Tanager]

I'm guessing that Scott means Kournikova and Hingis. Hingis is retired from tennis, and Kournikova is out for the rest of the year with injuries.

Henin-Hardenne doesn't seem like that odd of a pick to me - she's won the French and she's gone deep at Wimbly - she's got a surprisingly powerful serve and good groundies of both wings, and she's (much like Klijsters) got a pretty good all-court game. With Serena out and Venus' head off in the nether reaches of no-confidence-land, and with Justine playing the best tennis on the tour of late, she's still my pick for now.

I agree on J-Cap, but a LOT depends on (1) conditioning and (2) whether she's into the match. She has this disturbing tendency to lose interest in the matches and just...who knows.

I would have agreed with you 100% on Roddick prior to this Summer. But I watched him come back from being down 5-2 in the third against Federer in Montreal, a player who had smacked him around silly at Wimbledon. It's tough results like that make me think that having Brad Gilbert in his corner is working some real changes on Roddick's play. Having said that, I still think that he makes some bad decisions at time, and he's still not nearly the serve returner he needs to be, and his volleys are...well, not great. Having said that, my main reason for picking him as a finalist instead of, say, Federer, is that Roddick's just had the single best hard court season of anyone this year. Federer's been a little inconsistent, which has been his hallmark over the last couple of years anyway - I do think that, if he's on, Federer beats Roddick 60-70% of the time, but who knows?

Re: Philippoussis - yeah, why not? He's got a good game, and while he won't make a living off his serve alone at Flushing, I thought he showed more strokes than just a serve in his comeback performance at Wimbly. He'd be a good pick to go deep, depending on what his draw looks like, to be sure.

[GoodSpeak]

The slut....wha-?

Now we're equating looks and image to promiscuity?



Did I miss something here?

[claude]

Originally posted by Tanager

I would have agreed with you 100% on Roddick prior to this Summer. But I watched him come back from being down 5-2 in the third against Federer in Montreal, a player who had smacked him around silly at Wimbledon. It's tough results like that make me think that having Brad Gilbert in his corner is working some real changes on Roddick's play. Having said that, I still think that he makes some bad decisions at time, and he's still not nearly the serve returner he needs to be, and his volleys are...well, not great. Having said that, my main reason for picking him as a finalist instead of, say, Federer, is that Roddick's just had the single best hard court season of anyone this year. Federer's been a little inconsistent, which has been his hallmark over the last couple of years anyway - I do think that, if he's on, Federer beats Roddick 60-70% of the time, but who knows?

I agree 100% regarding Brad's effect on Roddick. I thought that Roddick looked more focused than I have ever seen before in Montreal. Federer didn't exactly lay down either from my recollection (I just saw part of the match so I could be mistaken). I would like to see the new improved Andy get to the US Open final, I think it's possible.

[Tanager]

Originally posted by claude
I agree 100% regarding Brad's effect on Roddick. I thought that Roddick looked more focused than I have ever seen before in Montreal. Federer didn't exactly lay down either from my recollection (I just saw part of the match so I could be mistaken).

No, that was my impression, too. It was a solid scalp for Roddick, nothing easy about it.

[Tanager]

Here's a link to the draws page for the US Open (which shows men's singles but has links to the other draws):

US Open Draws

Interesting first-round matchup: Roddick v. Henman, the only player to take him out on hard courts this Summer. That's a nasty first-round draw if there ever was one.

Another tough matchup is Ferrero vs. Guillermo Canas, who is an excellent player (I was at the French Open a couple of years ago when he put together a great run) and can, I think, upset Ferrero on the right day, especially on hard courts.

Rainer Schuettler draws Wayne Arthurs, who's a threat on fast courts anytime you play him. That nasty serve...

Nice possible third and fourth round matchups in the bottom of the draw: Nalbandian v. Phillippoussis in the third, then possibly Phillippoussis v. Federer in a Wimbly final rematch in the fourth. Frankly, assuming he gets past Phillippousis, I don't see anyone who should challenge Federer before the semis, but you never know. Assuming the seeds hold form, he'd play Roddick in the semis.

[Jon Abbey]

well, Venus just dropped out of the open also, her nagging stomach injury. what network is it that's televising the women's final in prime time, CBS? they can't be very happy right now...

[Tanager]

Originally posted by Jon Abbey
well, Venus just dropped out of the open also, her nagging stomach injury. what network is it that's televising the women's final in prime time, CBS? they can't be very happy right now...

Criminy. I haven't looked to see who's on what side of the Women's draw yet, but could be an all-Belgian affair, possibly. Be interesting to see what happens.

On another note, I'd really like to see Venus, if she's really serious about continuing as a pro, getting her own coach. I just can't see how you manage sharing the same coach (who is also your parent) with your biggest rival (who is also your sister) and stay in a healthily competitive frame of mind. I think it's clear that Venus detests playing Serena in tournaments.

[Jon Abbey]

Originally posted by Tanager
could be an all-Belgian affair, possibly. Be interesting to see what happens.

wow, you really are a hardcore tennis fan.

Capriati was the other top 8 seed in Venus' quarter, I'm not sure if they reseed or otherwise rebalance the draw at this point...

[Tanager]

The updated draw without Venus isn't posted yet, but it should be up later today, is my guess. I think they bump the seeds up, which would give Mauresmo (IIRC) Venus' #4 and Myskina J-Cap's #6. Myskina, at #7, currently lines up with Henin-Hardenne in the quarters, and while I think Mauresmo isn't as tough to beat as H-H, I don't see Myskina beating either, but we'll see.

Guillermo Canas has also withdrawn (as has Safin), which almost guarantees Ferrero an easier opening round match than he had.

[Tanager]

I watched the Pilot Pen final this afternoon. Capriati was putting a pretty good whipping on Davenport 6-2, 4-0, when Lindsay retired with what seems to be a recurrence of her chronic foot/ankle troubles. Davenport was in tears as she sat in her chair afterwards, and Capriati (very nicely, I thought) went over and tried to console her.

Having said that, Capriati looks very fit and very composed (you out there, Scott?). The word is that she's really focused right now, and I'd say it shows on the court. She's got to be considered a serious threat at the Open, if she plays like she did at the PP.

I'm sad for Davenport, and I hope she doesn't have to miss the Open. I'm not sure how many more she's got in her, between injuries and the fact that she is said to enjoy her married life away from the court greatly. She's also one of the classier figures in the game.

[Captain Hate]

Originally posted by Tanager
On another note, I'd really like to see Venus, if she's really serious about continuing as a pro, getting her own coach. I just can't see how you manage sharing the same coach (who is also your parent) with your biggest rival (who is also your sister) and stay in a healthily competitive frame of mind. I think it's clear that Venus detests playing Serena in tournaments.

I very much agree. Back when Venus was first on the scene, kicking ass and taking names, her weird father was announcing to all to watch out for Serena; that she was gonna be the major player. Well, it turns out that Richard knew of what he said. However, if that's how he feels, how can he make Venus get in the proper mindset to beat little sis. Also, looking at Venus' facial expressions over the last couple of years, she doesn't seem to be enjoying herself very much.

[Jon Abbey]

Originally posted by Tanager
I think they bump the seeds up, which would give Mauresmo (IIRC) Venus' #4 and Myskina J-Cap's #6. Myskina, at #7, currently lines up with Henin-Hardenne in the quarters, and while I think Mauresmo isn't as tough to beat as H-H, I don't see Myskina beating either, but we'll see.

the updated draw is up now, evidently when a seed drops out after the draw has already been made, they just create a #33 seed, and move them into the vacated spot, presumably replacing their previous spot with a wild card. so the highest seed in Capriati's quarter besides her is Dementieva at 11, nice draw, we'll see if she can take advantage.

[Tanager]

Well, Scott, we were both wrong about Rubin. She lost 4 and 4 to Maria Vento-Kabchi of Venezuela in the first round today.

The day's schedule of play is here.

[Jon Abbey]

damn, I thought Roddick/Henman was tonight, instead we get Clijsters and Hewitt. ew.

great weather here for the tournament, maybe I'll make it out one day this week...

[Jon Abbey]

and with Rubin out, the women's draw gets even duller. how the hell is Conchita Martinez still a 12 seed?

[Scott Dolan]

Yeah, I'm here, just been real busy.

I'm not sure what to make of Rubin. I'm begining to wonder if she may have been a flash in the pan? Could she be the womens version of Michael Chang?

Man, I'm really bummin for my girl Davenport. She's never been the same since she first fucked her ankle up. Movement still seems to be there, but, I don't know, she just hasn't been right. Any thoughts there Tanager? Over the last year I've seen her get entirely too frustrated, and blow matches that she should have easily won. Not the least of which was the semi's match she played down at Amelia Island early this year.

Glad to hear Jenny is coming in in great shape. I may just have to move her up to my pick in the finals. When she's in great shape, she's automatically focused. This could possibly be her tournament.

How is Kimmy C looking lately?

[Scott Dolan]

I think it's clear that Venus detests playing Serena in tournaments. - Tanager

Um, well, yeah, wouldn't you?

A: it's painfully clear that Serena is daddy's favorite.

B: before Serena showed up, Venus(who I still think is better overall) was wiping the floor with everyone.






And now...........................


Just watch Venus' demeanor these days. She could make Richard Simmons feel depressed.

[Tanager]

Originally posted by Scott Dolan
Yeah, I'm here, just been real busy.

I'm not sure what to make of Rubin. I'm begining to wonder if she may have been a flash in the pan? Could she be the womens version of Michael Chang?

I wouldn't characterize her that way at all. She's been a top-20 player for a long time, and this year (she's not exactly a greenhorn on the tour) has been one of her best in a long time. This was just a bad result, IMHO, nothing more.

Man, I'm really bummin for my girl Davenport. She's never been the same since she first fucked her ankle up. Movement still seems to be there, but, I don't know, she just hasn't been right. Any thoughts there Tanager?

Personally, I don't think she was ever that mobile before her health troubles, but now that they've cropped up again, I just don't know. I like Lindsay a lot, and she hits the ball just beautifully, and she's all class, all the time. I really wonder how much longer she'll stick it out - I could easily see her hanging it up a la Rafter, i.e. at an earlier age than one might have thought.

How is Kimmy C looking lately?

Until the late rounds, great. Personally, I think she needs some big wins to get her confidence back a little. It's been conjectured that she's just too nice to grind it out when the going gets nasty, but I don't buy that nearly as much as I just think she's watched H-H take matches off the Williams sisters, win tournaments, etc., and she's thinking, "why not me?" She's got all the tools, she hits as big a ball (except on the serve) as anyone, and she's fit. If she puts her mental game together, I could easily see her going very, very far, maybe even winning this thing.

[steve(thelil)]

Anybody else tired of hearing the sportstalking heads saying Sampras was never appreciated?

Maybe he wasn't popular among people who aren't actually tennis fans and don't even think about the US Open unless somebody with oodles of sex or personality appeal like Borg, McEnroe, Connors, Kournikova or Serena is getting press.

But there are alot of people who like great tennis who loved watching Sampras play because his GAME was beautiful to watch. And effective. And I found it compelling to watch someone whose game is all focus and needs no personality mustard. Like DiMaggio. Or Bernie Williams (most years). Or Tiger. Or Grant Hill (how soon they forget) or John Havlicek. Or Joe Dumars.

[moneyp]

I appreciated how good he was, but I think part of the problem is that Pete came off as absolutely charmless, on and off the court. There's kind of a parallel to Barry Bonds here, and maybe I can get past Bonds personality because I have an understanding of how good he is historically, whereas I was always rooting against Pete. Just never liked him.

[Tanager]

Originally posted by mone peterson
I appreciated how good he was, but I think part of the problem is that Pete came off as absolutely charmless, on and off the court. There's kind of a parallel to Barry Bonds here, and maybe I can get past Bonds personality because I have an understanding of how good he is historically, whereas I was always rooting against Pete. Just never liked him.

I don't think Pete was ever as brazenly sullen as Bonds was/is, but I see your point.

I, for one, don't think he's really underappreciated by serious fans, and he certainly wasn't by his fellow competitors. Agassi said more than once, when both he and Pete were on, Pete wins most of the time.

But as for being underappreciated, I think any non-US player not named "Anna Kournikova" could possibly vie for that moniker, with very few exceptions nowadays. I'd lay blame mostly on the TV schedulers, who will show this or that American blasting some noname off the court love and love rather than a compelling match between just about two non-Americans you could care to name. Folks who complain that "tennis is boring" are, IMHO, victimized by shoddy TV coverage - there are literally dozens of excellent and fun-to-watch players out there, if you're willing to dig a little. I'm lucky, because I've gotten to attend a lot of tennis tournaments (including the Olympics, the French Open, and Wimbledon, not to mention a lot of smaller ones here in the US), and I've gotten to watch a lot of side court tennis - which is really the way to attend a tournament, IMHO.

[mke]

Originally posted by steve(thelil)
Maybe he wasn't popular among people who aren't actually tennis fans and don't even think about the US Open unless somebody with oodles of sex or personality appeal like Borg, McEnroe, Connors, Kournikova or Serena is getting press.

Case in point: Erik prefers Agassi to Sampras because the former is "more fun to watch"...

[Tanager]

Originally posted by mke
Case in point: Erik prefers Agassi to Sampras because the former is "more fun to watch"...

That's curious, b/c I'd think that, except to the serious fan, Sampras would be much more entertaining as a player to watch. His game is more athletic, he plays serve-and-volley, he hits more aces, etc. The things which set Agassi apart are, I think, hard to appreciate unless you watch a lot of tennis - the way he cuts off opponents' angles and creates angles of his own, his nearly matchless endurance, the way he thinks through a point, his ability to see the ball and take it on the rise, his service return game.

I could easily be wrong, but I'd think that, for the beginning fan, the games of the big power hitters (which Agassi really isn't, despite his reputation as one) and the big servers are the surest crowd pleasers.

[Jon Abbey]

even Sampras might have told you that Agassi was more fun to watch than him. Sampras was just a methodical killer with little flair apart from the occasional jumping overhead. I pretty much always rooted against him also.

meanwhile, Agassi took apart the athlete formerly known as Alex Corretja in about seven minutes this afternoon. it'd be great to see him against Roddick or Federer in the finals.

[bobetterblues]

Most people like Aggassi because:

A. He shows a lot of emotion and heart

B. He's often the underdog when playing a big server, which is because he doesn't have a huge serve, its his return of serve that is so fun to watch.

C. A match with Aggassi always has more excitement, because there are more rallies, more breaks, etc.

[steve(thelil)]

Agassi has always had a flair despite a constantly evolving image and, I hear, growth as a person.