Lois's Disturbing News

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Someone on another board has found out Bill's fate. He pleaded guilty and was sentenced to 327 months (27.25 years) in prison. Given that he was 61 when sentenced, it's likely he'll die in prison. The federal prison system does not allow for parole.

The details are here: http://www.justice.gov/usao/law/news/wdla20120717.pdf

[crawjo]

As I stated when this thread began last year, I intended to write to Bill but when I sat down and tried to do it I had nothing--no words came out of my keyboard that made any sense whatsoever. Reading and learning more about the case, it has become even more impossible.

[Monte Smith]

Craw, I do intend to write Bill. In fact I found his address on the Bureau of Prisons inmate locator. He's in Oregon. But then, like you, I kind of stalled. I spoke to my friend in prison about this, asking him what a stranger can say (because I don't know if I ever interacted with Bill even on this board) that would show him that however dark a road he has ahead of him, and behind him, that not everyone is prepared to refuse a word with him or write him off. My buddy advised keeping it brief, let him know I'm thinking of him, not go into his guilt or what I make of it, leave him space to write back should he choose. Anyway, when I do sit down and write him (soon), I'll let you know how it goes.

[crawjo]

Monte, is this the same friend you mentioned earlier in this thread? If you don't mind my asking, how long is he in prison for? Are letters the only way to communicate with federal prisoners? I also looked up Bill's address awhile ago. I've sat down to write to him on several occasions and failed each time. It just feels so very, very strange, like almost anything I would write would be somehow inappropriate.

[Monte Smith]

Craw, it is. He's in federal prison for four years. Communication is done thru letters, outgoing phone calls, or visits. The BOP will tell you about email addresses, but "insiders" laugh at stuff like that. There are no computers. There are no classes or ways to improve yourself. The BOP website for my friend's particular prison talks about a scientifically advanced aquarium that is a cooperative effort between prisoners and local schools to do research into some type of fish. There is no aquarium.

I write my friend on about a monthly basis, mainly about how his recently widowed mother is having a lot of sex with exotic foreigners. I figure if I keep things on that level, I don't have to worry about what is "appropriate."

[Bourne]

Just glad to know he is no longer able to abuse children.

[jesus marion joseph]

Hey, one guy took his case to trial!




...and he'll be sentenced in September.

[ran]

Has anyone read that narrative from the DOJ ? . Fucking disgusting. Being sentenced to life isn't long enough.

[Monte Smith]

Has anyone read that narrative from the DOJ ? . Fucking disgusting. Being sentenced to life isn't long enough.

You have to understand, ran, that that's the indictment. It is, as you say, the DOJ's narrative. It is not "evidence" and it is not "the trial" and it is not, strictly speaking, "the truth." If you have had any interaction with the law, it's not easy to accept the prosecution's narrative as "the narrative." Similar experience to if you have ever been in a newsworthy event and then you read the next day's newspapers and you are like, where did they get any of that? I'm not saying Bill is innocent. Yet he has his narrative, too. It is possible to be guilty and mistreated at the same time. The DOJ narrative will highlight all the bad stuff and hide the exculpatory. Grain of salt, is what I am saying, enough salt so that we don't look at the guilty and say that the worst treatment possible is not bad enough for them. This country is ingenious at bad treatment, stiff laws, public panic, moral condemnation. My political side does it better even than yours.

[ran]

You have to understand, ran, that that's the indictment. It is, as you say, the DOJ's narrative. It is not "evidence" and it is not "the trial" and it is not, strictly speaking, "the truth." If you have had any interaction with the law, it's not easy to accept the prosecution's narrative as "the narrative." Similar experience to if you have ever been in a newsworthy event and then you read the next day's newspapers and you are like, where did they get any of that? I'm not saying Bill is innocent. Yet he has his narrative, too. It is possible to be guilty and mistreated at the same time. The DOJ narrative will highlight all the bad stuff and hide the exculpatory. Grain of salt, is what I am saying, enough salt so that we don't look at the guilty and say that the worst treatment possible is not bad enough for them. This country is ingenious at bad treatment, stiff laws, public panic, moral condemnation. My political side does it better even than yours.

Monte , is that the indictment or the summation for lack of a better word ? It was released on July of 2012 , no ? Aside from all of that I get what your saying , but I don't give shit. You know if this was an individual act , I'm not saying it's okay but we live around a lot of sick people. These fucks acted like the mafia and it was an enterprise.

What would be exculpatory here ? I'm serious I'd like to know. 50-60 people involved here , I want to know what I'm missing ?

[Monte Smith]

I don't know that you are missing anything, ran, I'm just saying.

[Bourne]

I'm not saying Bill is innocent. Yet he has his narrative, too. It is possible to be guilty and mistreated at the same time.

I'm assuming even you were admitting this was a bit of a stretch as you were typing it.

It certainly is possible to be guilty and mistreated. But that's a hell of a note better than being innocent and mistreated, as his victims were.

Sorry. Having done time in state prison myself I'm always sympathetic to "the other side of the coin". But let's not take it too far.

I always got along well with Bill. Seemed like a really nice cat.

Karma is a real bastard.

[Monte Smith]

Yeah, Scott, it is a bit of a stretch. Not stretching is to say "fuck him." Which I totally understand, but with my buddy's ongoing experience, I'm not there. I'm going to try to be kind to Bill, something I gotta do.

[Pete C]

I always got along well with Bill. Seemed like a really nice cat.

Karma is a real bastard.

I hung out with him in Seattle. The only argument I ever got into with him was when he got upset that I dissed a musician and I called him a Pollyanna. So I understand where Monte is coming from.

[Bourne]

Understood, gentlemen.

I can't quite get there, but appreciate those who are willing to.

Tough call.

[crawjo]

Reading the summation, Dreamboard sounds like the most evil enterprise one could ever imagine. Sexual gratification from the suffering of children, advancing in rank by posting videos of young children being raped, and so forth.

But like Monte, I know that in individual cases the reality of the nature of an individual's participation in the site could be more complicated than the above suggests. For instance, it would matter to me whether someone "merely" passed along videos that others had created, or had themselves filmed children being sodomized. Not to determine guilt or innocence, but rather the degree of responsibility.

[rollhead]

I'm going to try to be kind to Bill, something I gotta do.

You are a good man, Monte. You and Craw are better men than me. Not sure I could do it.

[walto]

I could see Pete or somebody who's met him or had a long correspondence wanting to stay in touch...in spite of everything, but I really don't get the Monte or Crawjo thing. Might as well pick any perp at random.

[Monte Smith]

I could see Pete or somebody who's met him or had a long correspondence wanting to stay in touch...in spite of everything, but I really don't get the Monte or Crawjo thing. Might as well pick any perp at random.

Hey don't blame me. I'm just puttering along when these crippled lives are strewn across my path. It was brought to my attention. Although I probably will begin to work with random perps as well, this one was brought to my attention. My conscience, fucking thing, will not let me shrug Bill off.

[Mike Schwartz]

I could see Pete or somebody who's met him or had a long correspondence wanting to stay in touch...in spite of everything, but I really don't get the Monte or Crawjo thing. Might as well pick any perp at random.

I'm with you walto although many say forgiveness is a very positive trait to embrace.

Bill did radio, which I've done for some 16 years, has terrific knowledge of jazz and tastes along those lines that I liked when he posted here. Since the time of the initial posting until today, I couldn't see myself reaching out , at the same time not down on anyone who chooses to do otherwise.

[Paul B]

Monte's position seems strange. Conservatives such as him rail against abortion, but I guess once the children come into the world they're fair game for the likes of Mr. Barton. That's the free market for you. "Embrace it" seems to be Monte's way of seeing things.

The do-gooder on the left is equally, if not more, puzzling, and probably worse in the long run because of the tortured logic that leads him to see the perp as a victim. Must be a post-colonial thing.

[Mike Schwartz]

Monte's position seems strange. Conservatives such as him rail against abortion, but I guess once the children come into the world they're fair game for the likes of Mr. Barton. That's the free market for you. "Embrace it" seems to be Monte's way of seeing things.

The do-gooder on the left is equally, if not more, puzzling, and probably worse in the long run because of the tortured logic that leads him to see the perp as a victim. Must be a post-colonial thing.

Paul,

You might have stopped at "Monte's position seems strange."

If you want to take a swing at conservatives and liberals with a broad brush as you see it fine.

I can't think of a single topic on this board ever as tough as this one, and not a single comment has seemed casual. It certainly exposes a raw nerve with me from shocked to pissed, to mad as hell.

There's a post down the page posted by Tom Storer from Sept. 11, 2011 as the case was being made public where it was mentioned that the person convicted has serious problems.
"He also suffers from PTSD from the Vietnam war....."

I don't know what to make of this (true or false) but I've known guys my age (same as the guy in prison) that went to war and came back and remained damaged.

I'm very glad he's been put away, but can't fault anyone who may reach out with an ounce of kindness, though I'm not one of them in this case.

I could imagine, in the abstract, not breaking off someone who is very close to me under similar circumstances.

[Tom Storer]

Monte's impulse seems to be a philosophical one, that no one is completely beyond the pale, no one stops being a human being despite the most horrendous crimes. And that a human bond exists among all of us, independently of the most severe condemnation we have for someone's acts. I agree with that principle, but stop short of reaching out to Bill, or, as someone put it, random perps. I can't fault those who do. That Monte should do so shouldn't surprise us, given his long history as a bleeding heart.

(And Paul B--irony aside, note that Monte's willingness to show kindness is expressed after Bill has been thrown in prison for life without parole. I doubt he would militate for Bill's release.)

[PHILLYQ]

Monte's position seems strange. Conservatives such as him rail against abortion, but I guess once the children come into the world they're fair game for the likes of Mr. Barton. That's the free market for you. "Embrace it" seems to be Monte's way of seeing things.

The do-gooder on the left is equally, if not more, puzzling, and probably worse in the long run because of the tortured logic that leads him to see the perp as a victim. Must be a post-colonial thing.

At no point did Monte justify, accept, or embrace what Bill Barton did. He may commit an act of compassion with respect to Bill Barton.

[Pete C]

In this particular case I find Paul's swipes at Monte's right-wing politics and Crawjo's "academic left" politics rather gratuitous.

Actually, it's not really swipes at their politics, it's swipes at them as people using a combination of their politics and their statements in this matter as his ostensible justification for personal attacks.

[Runawayjazz]

I wonder if Monte would be as forgiving if an underage member of his family was the victim of one of the Dreamboard perpetrators. A childhood friend of mine was the victim of a Catholic priest many years ago. His life has been shattered beyond anything you can imagine. Although the quality of mercy is not strained, I have never been able to forgive this man of the cloth.

[Pete C]

I'm not sure forgiveness is necessarily implicit in Monte's position.

[Monte Smith]

I'm sticking my letter in the mailbox this morning.

The question "What if it was your child?" is an excellent one. What if it was your child who was the victim of these crimes? What if it was your child who was guilty of these offenses?

[LennyH]

Admirable, Monte.

[Ron Thorne]

Compassion and forgiveness are two entirely different dynamics.