Ozzie Hearts Castro

[Squaredancecalling Steve]

Ozzie says it was a bad translation

[steve(thelil)]

Ozzie says it was a bad translation

I wonder if he needs a translator to understand the term "bonehead"

[ran]

I was thought that Kobe Bryant made himself a complete ass ( he was only 3/4 of the way there before ) when he decided that it was a good idea to endorse Turkish Airways in a city that has the second biggest Armenian community in the world. But at least he got paid to be an idiot.

[Jeffrey Wozniak]

I think it's ridiculous that he was suspended for his positive comments about Castro.

That's like JC banning me for saying Bush Jr. was the greatest American President ever.

[steve(thelil)]

I hear you, Woz. But in this case I think it really isn't about politics or whether they agreed or disagreed with the content of his words. They suspended him because their business plan is now largely built around bringing in star players who will attract the large potential South Florida Spanish speaking fan base. His comments made them fear driving them away instead of bringing them in.

Like you, I still think it's wrong to put a chill on free speech like they did, but a business will always put $$$ ahead of civil liberties principles. It's not the first - but rather the umpteenth - time a sports team ownership has made a player or manager grovel apologetically after saying or doing things that they feared would hurt attendance.

[Jeffrey Wozniak]

I understand why they did it, but I still think it was the wrong decision.

Being a pro capitalism kind of guy who thinks free markets are the way to go I also believe the all-mighty dollar should take a back seat to certain things. Actually, many things.

In fact, I would go so far as to say that this move to suspend Ozzie is unacceptable, but maybe that's just me...

[steve(thelil)]

Again, I don't disagree, but I'm just pointing out that I would be surprised if any LARGE for-profit corporation put free expression principles over $$$$ in a similar situation when they believed that they were in danger of taking a big financial hit. On top of that, they don't fear the repercussions of stifling their employees' speech when they can appear to be taking an anti-commie position.

[Bourne]

They suspended him because their business plan is now largely built around bringing in star players who will attract the large potential South Florida Spanish speaking fan base.

It really has nothing to do with star players because there are not that many Cuban players in Major League Baseball.

It does have to do with the south Florida audience which has a substantial Cuban population. The twist being that many of them are there because they made a heart-breaking decision to leave their homeland and family behind. Then they undertook a life-threatening journey to escape. Many still have family there that they rarely see and many are not allowed back into Cuba at all.

Taking this into consideration his statement was closer to Holocaust denial than saying bush was a great President. Too many people have died attempting to escape that island.

His comments were a slap in the face to the Cuban population of Florida and elsewhere. I find it tasteless to defend his words or claim he was unjustly punished.

it's wrong to put a chill on free speech like they did

This is not a free speech issue. The government is not involved.

[steve(thelil)]

It really has nothing to do with star players because there are not that many Cuban players in Major League Baseball..........

It is widely believed that the Marlins signed Jose Reyes and Ozzie Guillen (and I believe some other Spanish speaking people) because they believe that it would help draw Spanish speaking South Floridians..If you have some reason to believe that they are wrong about these signings being of interest to Cubans, please share it.

This is not a free speech issue. The government is not involved.

It may not violate the First Amendment because government is not the employer. But I believe that employer suspending a player for saying something does raises moral and philosophical free speech issues. In my mnd, these are serious issues, even if the employer's action doesn't violate the law.

[clinthopson]

The way Ozzie runs his mouth, it's a wonder that he doesn't spend half the season suspended.

But you gotta love the guy.

[The Alex]

Taking this into consideration his statement was closer to Holocaust denial than saying bush was a great President.

Oh give me a fucking break.

signed,

a Cuban-American

[The Alex]

Here's a good common sense article on all of this:

http://www.edgeofsports.com/2012-04-09-717/index.html

Big Trouble in Little Havana: The Perilous Politics of Ozzie Guillen
By Dave Zirin


Short of a hurricane or an armed tax-payer revolt, this had to have been Miami Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria's worst nightmare. Loria was opening a new state of the art, tax-funded stadium in Little Havana that will cost the city two billion dollars over the next 40 years. He also paid out several hundred million dollars in salary for free agents, making his new ballplayers the nation's wealthiest public employees. This was the last, best, chance to sell baseball in South Florida. Loria desperately needed a hot start for his team and some sugary sweet media coverage for his new ballpark. Then his new manager Ozzie Guillen decided to share his views about Cuba and Fidel Castro. Guillen tends to talk without a filter and in an interview with Time Magazine, he revealed that he happens to not believe that Castro is Satan incarnate. Saying that he "loved" Castro, Guillen explained, "I respect Fidel Castro. You know why? A lot of people have wanted to kill Fidel Castro for the last 60 years, but that son of a b---- is still here."

Casual kind words for Castro in South Florida is akin to looking at a leaky bottle of kerosene and thinking it could use a match. Now, we haven't seen outrage like this in South Florida since butterfly ballots and hanging chads.

The Miami Marlins immediately released a condemnation of Guillen but that couldn't stop a volcanic political explosion. Miami-Dade Mayor Carlos Gimenez called on the organization "to take decisive steps" against Guillen in the name of "freedom loving people." Miami-Dade County Commission Chairman Joe Martinez demanded Guillen's resignation. Cuban-American State Senator and Hispanic caucus chair Rene Garcia - in record time! - sent an open letter published in the Miami Herald calling Guillen's comments "appalling" and said he was "looking forward to further actions taken against him for his deplorable comments." Garcia also stuck Loria in the ribs by including, "What I also consider disturbing is the fact that the Miami Marlins received tax dollars from this community, including Cuban-American exiles, to fund the construction of the new stadium." Suffice it to say, many a sports commentator also want Guillen fired or suspended. In their frothy anger, they have a common demand with the Cuban hardline exile group Vigilia Mambisa. An organization that has never shied from street violence and intimidation, Vigilia Mambisa has called for protests in front of the stadium until the Miami Marlins manager is fired.

As for Guillen, he has crumbled under the weight of all this, saying that he is now flying back to Florida to apologize in person to every animal, vegetable, and mineral he might have offended. "I want them to know I'm against everything [in Cuba] 100 percent-I repeat it again-the way [Castro has been] treating people for the last 60 years."

Let's leave aside the rather glaring irony that the politicians, sports commentators, and Cuban exiles want to show their love of freedom by taking Guillen's job for the crime of exercising free speech. The fact is that when looking for political consistency and clarity, Ozzie Guillen is not the best place to start. The Venezuela-born Guillen's comments on Castro are not very different from what he has always said about Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez. He has made comments very favorable about Chavez and very negative. He said, "Viva Chavez" after his Chicago White Sox won the 2005 World Series. He has also been one of Chavez's most high profile critics.

Trying to make sense of Guillen based on public utterances is a fool's errand. As someone who knows people that talk to Guillen when the cameras are off, I will try to explain his actual politics on Venezuela and Cuba. Guillen is big on a collective Latin American pride and will not abide anti-immigrant and anti-Latino words or deeds. He has a great deal of respect for the way Castro and Chavez stand up to the United States. He opposes efforts by the US to impose their will on these countries and wishes the rest of Latin America would show similar mettle. It's not a question of the relative good or bad of Cuba's internal politics. It's a question of independence. He's also as gung ho for the United States as any manager in baseball, going as far as to fine players for not showing proper respect for the National Anthem, a practice I criticized in 2005. I know that people love portraying Ozzie Guillen as an out-there, crazy kind of guy, and that's in part because he is an out-there crazy kind of guy. But what's crazier? Guillen's views on Cuba or the fact that an aging coterie of people who mourn for the strong hand of Fulgencio Batista control the political debate in South Florida?

But this issue is bigger than Guillen and it's bigger than Cuban exiles who dream of returning to a smoldering "free Havana", with Castro's head on a pike. It's bigger than the petty hypocrisies of those who stand for freedom by denying it for others. It's now about whether the ire produced by Guillen's words will be directed against Loria, his grab of public funds, and the entire Miami baseball operation. If that happens, this issue won't die, but the Marlins might.

[steve(thelil)]

His comments were a slap in the face to the Cuban population of Florida and elsewhere. I find it tasteless to defend his words or claim he was unjustly punished.

The quote I heard was something like that he "loves" and/or "respects" Castro because people have wanted to kill him for so long, but he's still alive.

I don't see how that can be reasonably equated with holocaust denial.

[Ron Thorne]

Ozzie Guillen has lived in south Florida for the past 12 or so years, so he should have known better than to make a potentially inflammatory comment such as this. DUH!

Having said that, it's also important to realize the distinction between MLB suspending a player, manager or coach and the team's organization declaring one. The latter was the case here, and it's completely understandable to me.

The Marlins have a brand new ball park, finally, and before the season has a chance to enter its 2nd week, big mouth Guillen causes a huge distraction for his ball club and embarrasses its owners and managers.

The article in post #12 squares with my thinking.

Sadly, this ain't over, folks.

ps:I vividly and fondly remember lying in bed listening to the Miami Marlins AAA baseball games from Miami Stadium, as a kid in the 50s. Satchel Paige pitched for them for a while, before coming to Anchorage to pitch for the Glacier Pilots in 1965.

[Jeffrey Wozniak]

Oh give me a fucking break.

signed,

a Cuban-American

I appreciate your "give me a fucking break" Alex, but I have to ask you: Are you a Cuban-American or an American?

[jesus marion joseph]

[Bourne]

Oh give me a fucking break.

signed,

a Cuban-American

What year did you leave Cuba?

[Bourne]

It is widely believed that the Marlins signed Jose Reyes and Ozzie Guillen (and I believe some other Spanish speaking people) because they believe that it would help draw Spanish speaking South Floridians..If you have some reason to believe that they are wrong about these signings being of interest to Cubans, please share it.

I hope you are either ignorant about baseball or joking.

The Marlins manager last year was Edwin Rodriguez. Just off the top of my head I would guess that no less than two thirds of the Marlins roster last season were Spanish speaking players. Just like most rosters in MLB.

They hired Guillen because he is a proven manager with a World Series victory on his resume. They signed Mark Buehrle (who does not speak Spanish to my knowledge) because he also has a World Series ring. With Guillen. They are all in this year because they lost 90 games last year and are playing in their new stadium this year and naturally want to make a big splash.

It has nothing to do with who speaks Spanish.

[The Alex]

What year did you leave Cuba?

The same year as the majority of Miami "Cubans": never. I was born in the States.

Was there any point you were trying to make here? Because I guarantee you that the majority of people hurling manufactured outrage at Guillen weren't born in Cuba either.

[Bourne]

The same year as the majority of Miami "Cubans": never. I was born in the States.

Was there any point you were trying to make here?

The point is crystal clear. You are not one of the nearly 1 million cuban exiles who live in south Florida. Meaning, you cannot relate to:

The twist being that many of them are there because they made a heart-breaking decision to leave their homeland and family behind. Then they undertook a life-threatening journey to escape. Many still have family there that they rarely see and many are not allowed back into Cuba at all.

You have never had to suffer as these people do. Or the generations that came before them that fled after '59 when Castro took control. Ask them how much respect Castro should get.

Perhaps if you had been turned back by Coast Guard ships firing water canons or arrested and detained at Krome you would have some credibility.

[ran]

The point is crystal clear. You are not one of the nearly 1 million cuban exiles who live in south Florida. Meaning, you cannot relate to:



You have never had to suffer as these people do. Or the generations that came before them that fled after '59 when Castro took control. Ask them how much respect Castro should get.

Perhaps if you had been turned back by Coast Guard ships firing water canons or arrested and detained at Krome you would have some credibility.

WOW.

[Bourne]

Wow, what?

[clinthopson]

Talk about over reacting, considering the viscous crap that comes out of the blowhards at Fox, this is a pimple.

Maybe a lifetime suspension would be appropriate for the big mouths.

[steve(thelil)]

I hope you are either ignorant about baseball or joking.


.........It has nothing to do with who speaks Spanish.

I hope you are joking and not merely obnoxously condescending. I hope you realize how naive you sound. I hope you realize that the broad consensus is that Ozzie was hired in large part to be the face of the team for the Spanish speaking community, and that they spent big bucks signing Ozzie, Reyes and others in part to attract Spanish speaking fans. And that apparently almost everyone knows they are marketing Ozzie, Reyes and their other Spanish speaking personnel heavily in the Spanish speaking South Florida markets.

I assume you realize that the franchise was drawing miserably and it was felt that they had to have a different business strategy to survive. And yes I know of Guillen's success as a manager and about Reyes' career and skills, not to mention more about baseball than you do.

I hope you realize you have problems with diplomacy and are coming across badly. I hope you learn to stay logical and unemotional when confronted with opinions that are not at all uncommon or incendiary. I wish at the moment I could be saying this to your face, so I could better gauge what your problem is.

[ran]

I hope you are joking and not merely obnoxously condescending. I hope you realize how naive you sound. I hope you realize that the broad consensus is that Ozzie was hired in large part to be the face of the team for the Spanish speaking community, and that they spent big bucks signed Reyes and others in part to attract Spanish speaking fans.

I assume you realize that the franchise was drawing miserably and it was felt that they had to have a different business strategy to survive. And yes I know of Guillen's success as a manager and about Reyes' career and skills and more about baseball than you do.

I hope you realize you have problems with diplomacy and are coming across badly. I wish at the moment I could be saying this to your face.

I don't know how you come to know this since you live in New York.

[steve(thelil)]

I don't know how you come to know this since you live in New York.

When you can and do read and don't have a pathological reaction to opinions that are counter to what you'd like to believe, you occasionally pick up a few things, even if you are disadvantaged enough to not live in Little Havana and/or have your hatred of Castro be the basis of a cubic shitload of your worldview.

[ran]

When you can and do read and don't have a pathological reaction to opinions that are counter to what you'd like to believe, you occasionally pick up a few things, even if you are disadvantaged enough to not live in Little Havana and/or have your hatred of Castro be the basis of a cubic shitload of your worldview.

Stop it , you're killing me.

[The Alex]

The point is crystal clear. You are not one of the nearly 1 million cuban exiles who live in south Florida. Meaning, you cannot relate to:

You idiot, I was born and grew up in Miami. My mother was born and spent her childhood in Havana. Many members of my family speak Spanish as their primary language, and only halting or broken English.

You have never had to suffer as these people do.

The expropriation of the Batista-era rulers induced "suffering"? Gosh, I bet you members of the Mafia "suffer" too when they're indicted under the RICO statutes.

Ask them how much respect Castro should get.

The point, dip, is that you're acting like South Florida Cubans speak in a monolithic voice on these matters just because a couple of prominent gusanos have managed to achieve positions of power and prominence that they use as a bully pulpit.

Perhaps if you had been turned back by Coast Guard ships firing water canons or arrested and detained at Krome you would have some credibility.

What, you mean like the numerous Haitians that aren't offered the generous residency status granted to Cuban "political" exiles?

Most recent Cuban immigrants are economic refugees. And I can't blame them. Life in the US does offer more material comfort than in Cuba. But thanks to the prominent gusano lobby, they are granted the status of "political" refugees, even though many of them -- and you can trust me on this -- don't give a shit about Castro and all the tedious political bullshit of the established Miami mafia.

[Sergio Zamora]

Taking this into consideration his statement was closer to Holocaust denial than saying bush was a great President.

This statement is more than a little hyperbolic.

[clinthopson]

Obviously MLB has never heard of the First Amendment.