NBA Offseason & Draft

[steve(thelil)]

Losing Lin and Landry Fields seems like exactly the kind of moves that will bite the Knicks in the butt for years to come

They've (re-)lost at least one fan, I know for sure. And just when we're wondering how it can get worse, they'll probably put out the fire by bringing Isiah back. Or maybe (I'm hoping) the Rockets will acquire Dwight Howard and the Lin/Howard combo will be THE story in the NBA this year. It could happen.

[Mike Schwartz]

I like JJack, too, and he's a real good fit
If they keep Charles Jenkins, as I think they will, they are going to have a solid 4 guard rotation that should keep everybody pretty fresh

I think this is wise and a must for this club, as fragile as Stephen Curry has been, have been forced to scramble for bodies, why not have a corps set going in that can cover for lost games if need be.

[steve(thelil)]

The Lin (apparent) non-signing will seem worse now in the wake of the Jason Kidd DVUI arrest (the v is for very). I would have bet that JR Smith would be the first guy on the roster to get arrested. Now he has to commit a worse offense.
It could happen. Soon even.

[PHILLYQ]

Losing Lin and Landry Fields seems like exactly the kind of moves that will bite the Knicks in the butt for years to come

So is getting a bunch of old players and trying to get another(Grant Hill). How many 40 year olds can a team carry? If they get Hil, the Knicks could have 4 players at or close to 40.

[Dr Dave]

From Nate Silver at the 538 blog:

(excerpt)

Sports franchises often fear uncertainty, or they perceive it wrongly. During the past decade or two, under the tenure of their owner James L. Dolan, the Knicks have frequently paid top dollar for brand-name players who seem to have proven their worth. Yet, these veteran players have often struggled with age and injury, their contracts becoming white elephants. What seems like a risk-averse strategy really isn’t — it’s just that all the risk is to the downside.

To be sure, there are also risks with Lin. If he proves to be no more than a marginal player — or if he gets hurt — then those jerseys will stop selling. Few T.V. sets in New York’s Chinatown or Flushing — let alone in Taipei or Shanghai — would be tuned in to see him come off the bench.

Moreover, because of the N.B.A.’s punitive luxury tax provision, the deal is a lot more expensive to Mr. Dolan than it seems on the surface. Under the league’s rules, the Knicks might face roughly an additional $20 million in luxury taxes on top of Lin’s salary.

It is not quite clear that Lin’s contract alone should be thought of as responsible for this — the bloated contracts given to players like Stoudemire also contribute to the Knicks’ tax burden. Nevertheless, the marginal cost of bringing Lin back might be more like $45 million over three years, or $15 million per season.

But the upside is just too much to pass up. If Lin does perform like a top-10 point guard, he’ll be worth his salary based on his on-court contributions alone.

Even if Lin is a merely good player, the marketing boost he provides should more than justify the expense. Lin is already a superstar based on his jersey sales, and the level of fan interest that he generates. The number of Google searches for Lin’s name over the past six months exceeds that of LeBron James — and is about four times as many as those for Anthony, Stoudemire and Chandler combined.

This is a case, moreover, where it makes sense for the Knicks to pursue a high-risk strategy. As presently constructed — without Lin on the roster — they appear to be about a 50-win team. That would usually correlate with a fifth or sixth seed in the Eastern Conference, and an exit within the first two rounds of the playoffs. The N.B.A., unlike the N.H.L. or Major League Baseball, is a league in which skill tends to prevail. Merely being good, and then hoping to get lucky in the postseason, just does not work very often.

And the Knicks would have to share the spotlight. Their new crosstown neighbors, the Brooklyn Nets, also look to have about a 50-win roster — but the Nets are a younger team with fresher branding that might start to steal their headlines and ticket sales.

If Lin is a flop, and the Knicks win 45 games a year with him as their point guard, it wouldn’t make much difference. They’d still probably make the playoffs, and still probably lose in the first round. They’d still have to compete with the Nets both on the court and off it.

But if Lin plays even 80 percent as well as he did in February, the Knicks could have a 55- or even 60-win roster. Winning a championship would still be a feat, with dominant teams like the Miami Heat and Oklahoma City Thunder in the league. But the Knicks would be on track to be a No. 2 seed in the Eastern Conference. They would also host many home playoff games and would have a puncher’s chance of bringing home their first N.B.A. title since 1973. The Nets might not be an afterthought like they were in New Jersey, but the Knicks would still be the toast of the town.

If the definition of insanity is trying the same process over and over and hoping for better results, Dolan’s strategy of locking in 30-something veterans to max contracts every year has been a little mad.

Linsanity was something different. As of late Monday morning, on the mere possibility that Lin might not be re-signed, MSG stock had lost about $50 million in market value — roughly as much as the salary and luxury tax that the Knicks would need to keep the dream alive for the next three years.

It might not work out, but the Knicks would be crazy not to try their luck.

[steve(thelil)]

From Nate Silver at the 538 blog:

(excerpt)

Linsanity was something different. As of late Monday morning, on the mere possibility that Lin might not be re-signed, MSG stock had lost about $50 million in market value — roughly as much as the salary and luxury tax that the Knicks would need to keep the dream alive for the next three years.

It might not work out, but the Knicks would be crazy not to try their luck.

It seems like everyone except Knicks ownership thought this would be the case. The myopically selfish morons wanted to spite Lin for getting all he could (like every other player) rather than being grateful that he became a big time,big money basketball player as a Knick. Of course, they don't think they OWE HIM for the Millions of $$$$ of merch they made off Linsanity and/or for the increase in MSG stock valuation as the result of the phenomenon.

[Blue Train]

Grant Hill supposedly has agreed with the Clippers. Everyone seemed to assume he was going to either sign with the Lakers, or retire.

I think he would have had a better chance for a ring in the next two years (the rumored length of the contract with the Clippers.) with the Lakers than Clippers.


The Lakers are interested in both Antawn Jamison and Jermaine O'Neal. I can understand Jamison, but O'Neal?

[Uli]

[Mike Schwartz]

I don't get the idea of Jamison really.

If the Laker coach is defense minded, he now has Nash...to add another poor defender doesn't make much sense, although the guy probably won't get major minutes (Jamison).

[steve(thelil)]

Grant Hill supposedly has agreed with the Clippers. Everyone seemed to assume he was going to either sign with the Lakers, or retire.

I had read that he was considering the Heat, Thunder, Lakers and the Clippers. It was reported a week ago (July 10) that he stated that he wasn't going to retire.

[steve(thelil)]

I have no inside information, but it just occurred to me that it's a little weird that the Knicks are waiting until the last minute to announce their decision on Jeremy Lin. I think there's a chance that they will announce at the last minute that they matched Houston's offer in order to attempt to improve Dolan's approval/contempt quotient.

[Uli]

According to ESPN the Knicks officially confirmed that they will not match the Rockets' offer.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/stor...fer-jeremy-lin

[Blue Train]

I don't get the idea of Jamison really.

If the Laker coach is defense minded, he now has Nash...to add another poor defender doesn't make much sense, although the guy probably won't get major minutes (Jamison).

You have to figure since Brown coached him at Cleveland he had some sort of say in it.

[gonzo]

lin now officially a rocket.
jamison now a laker.

[steve(thelil)]

Lin brought a couple of weeks of joy and wonder to many basketball fans. For me personally, it was my favorite stretch of hoops ever and it brought me back into the Knick fan fold. I'm sure there are many like me.

Then, when he went down with an injury, the disappointment was tempered by the hopeful anticipation of his return this season. Quite simply, the Knicks should have figured out a way to make sure he came back. Perhaps signing him earlier. The one thing they shouldn't have done was announce that they would match any offer sheet he signed from any other team - and then not do it.

The thing that's forgotten when doing a cool analytical assessment of his strengths and weaknesses is that in the last couple of years he showed an almost unheard of ability to become stronger and better, working on and improving on many aspects of his game- going from a solid point guard in a weak college conference to a guy who at times tore up the NBA.

I have every reason to believe he will continue to work as hard and intelligently to continue to improve. He doesn't have that far to go to be an elite point guard. He's already the type of player who when on his game makes everybody better.

Go Rockets. Go Heat. Go Nets. Fuck Dolan.

[steve(thelil)]

NESN.COM has an article that nails it

"For anyone close to Knicks management to try to reframe the narrative by claiming Lin was the one who refused to compromise is disingenuous beyond comprehension. The Knicks could have begun to "work with" Lin by offering him the maximum four-year, $24 million deal on the very first day of free agency. Instead, they issued an implicit challenge to the player who revitalized interest in the blue and orange: Try to find a better deal out there from another team -- we dare you. What Lin found was a suitor who recognized what the Knicks did not, that Lin is more than a promising 23-year-old point guard who is humble to a fault and possesses one of the coolest Cinderella backstories in sports. He became a global phenomenon for 26 games last season and has a chance to develop into an international icon. And the jersey that will be broadcast around the world will belong to the Rockets. The Rockets initially offered Lin a four-year, $28.8 million deal, according to multiple reports, but they restructured that to a three-year, $25 million deal. The first two years featured a roughly $5 million rate worthy of Ocean State Job Lot, but that third year at $14.8 million was the kicker. The third-year salary was designed to deter the Knicks from matching, yet nobody really expected the Knicks not to match. Not Lin. Not Knicks coach Mike Woodson. Possibly not even the Rockets. The Knicks put themselves in that unenviable position. They had an opportunity to establish the baseline at four years and $24 million, but their arrogance cost them that advantage. The baseline was therefore set by Lin and the Rockets, who inadvertently created a built-in excuse for the Knicks not to match. It's a financial decision, the Knicks might shout, but anyone familiar with the NBA's complex economic system knows better. In that hypothetical third year, the Knicks would have had a sea of expiring deals, including Jason Kidd, Marcus Camby and Lin, as well as early termination clauses for Carmelo Anthony and Amare Stoudemire. Any of those players would be tradeable to find some salary cap relief."

"As NBA.com's Steve Aschburner amusingly and astutely tweeted in light of the sizable sums already being paid to Anthony, Stoudemire and company, "blaming Jeremy Lin for [luxury] tax issues in NY [is like] six fat guys in elevator ripping skinny seventh guy who boards last, trips buzzer." Lin did not create the Knicks' salary cap crunch. The Knicks did, over and over, with their fiscally irresponsible moves for the last several years leading up to this offseason. That $14.8 million would have been a small price to pay for the future of the franchise and the goodwill of the fans. The Knicks' newfound frugality will end up costing them far more than that."

Read more at: http://www.nesn.com/2012/07/knicks-c...me-move-as-fin

[Mike Schwartz]

Lin brought a couple of weeks of joy and wonder to many basketball fans. For me personally, it was my favorite stretch of hoops ever and it brought me back into the Knick fan fold. I'm sure there are many like me.

Then, when he went down with an injury, the disappointment was tempered by the hopeful anticipation of his return this season. Quite simply, the Knicks should

The Knicks should have figured out a way to make sure he came back. Perhaps signing him earlier. The one thing they shouldn't have done was announce that they would match any offer sheet he signed from any other team - and then not do it.

The thing that's forgotten when doing a cool analytical assessment of his strengths and weaknesses is that in the last couple of years he showed an almost unheard of ability to become stronger and better, working on and improving on many aspects of his game- going from a solid point guard in a weak college conference to a guy who at times tore up the NBA.

I have every reason to believe he will continue to work as hard and intelligently to continue to improve. He doesn't have that far to go to be an elite point guard. He's already the type of player who when on his game makes everybody better.

Go Rockets. Go Heat. Go Nets. Fuck Dolan.

Easy thelil.....Dolan is no longer here to defend himself

[steve(thelil)]

Easy thelil.....Dolan is no longer her to defend himself

Are you saying that James Dolan (or Scott D) had a sex change?

[Mike Schwartz]

Yahoo sports on the Knicks/Lin non-signing

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ba...0611--nba.html

[Blue Train]

Some of the "classy" responses to Lin on his Facebook.


http://www.buzzfeed.com/jpmoore/21-k...mad-at-the-wro

[steve(thelil)]

Word has it that moron James Dolan owner of the Knicks didn't resign Lin because he thought Lin betrayed him by getting the Rockets to up their offer sheet to an amount the Knicks didn't want to play. This despite the fact that Lin would have resigned for far less if the Knicks didn't make him test the market - claiming they'd match any offer. The only betrayal was the Knicks betraying their fans, most of whom were thrilled by the joy and excitement (and big bucks) Lin already brought the Knicks, while playing for the NBA minimum contract.

More than a full day after the refusal to resign Jeremy Lin there's been no comment at all from Dolan. Apparently he thinks (and I use the term loosely) that the bad vibes created by letting the player who created the most joy and excitement in recent Knicks history leave will just blow over.

Close. He can blow me.

[Squaredancecalling Steve]

Charles Jenkins is really distinguishing himself in summer league, making the Warriors have to think about a four guard rotation

Everybody except Jenkins was pretty bad in last night's game against Miami (Draymon Green 0-9), until the fourth quarter when Harrison Barnes started hitting everything

[Dr Dave]

Houston trades Courtney Lee to Celts; the idea seems to be that he'll shoot enough threes to ease the loss of Ray Allen.

[walto]

I thought Terry was supposed to do that. My sense was that Lee was Bradley's shoulder insurance. BWTHDIK?

[steve(thelil)]

I thought Terry was supposed to do that. My sense was that Lee was Bradley's shoulder insurance. BWTHDIK?

He's had surgery this summer on only 2 shoulders.

[Mike Schwartz]

Dwight Howard to the Lakers.

4 team deal....Bynam and Jason Richardson to Philly....Gasol not traded.

For those who frequent the NBA threads, not good news to Knick & Warrior fans.

Iguadala [sp?] to Denver.

[Squaredancecalling Steve]

not good news to Knick & Warrior fans.

There was a chart on Golden State of Mind showing what a good defensive center Bogut was against everybody except Howard, who has pretty much owned him

[Blue Train]

It's a good to great trade for everyone but Orlando. Even the three first round picks are all protected.

Lakers basically got Nash and Howard for Bynum (who grew up about an hour from Philly), Odam, a mid level exception and a bunch of very low first round draft picks who most likely wouldn't have amount to much and they kept Gasol.


They also upgraded at the two weakest positions of the Heat.

Not sure how this deal is better for Orlando than the one involving Houston or the Nets..

I also don't think either Howard or Bynum will sign an extension. Makes no sense financially. They will making $30-45 million more by waiting and resigning with the Lakers and Philly than they would signing an extension, or signing with any other team.

Even taking into account Howard goes from a state with no state income tax to one of the highest....he still would make more with the Lakers than anywhere else that can fit him under the salary cap.

I also recall reading that Howard is one of those players who has a shoe contract that increases substantially if he goes to a major market like Los Angeles.

[Uli]

from reports it looks like tis deal is going thru. Lakers look like a contender on paper in the West. I think I am gonna like watching Philly even more next season. Denver also seem to be stronger. Orlando mainly seem to have gained cap space.

Can't wait for the next season.

[Mike Schwartz]

from reports it looks like tis deal is going thru. Lakers look like a contender on paper in the West. I think I am gonna like watching Philly even more next season. Denver also seem to be stronger. Orlando mainly seem to have gained cap space.

Can't wait for the next season.

The one thing unspoken is Howard's back injury.
I'm going to assume that the operation was required but not something that would prevent him to resuming to top play. Trade talk never even slowed for a minute....

I think OKC will be challenged but still have slight edge.
Perkins, when he was in Boston played Howard well and straight up.
LA/OKC are going to be 'mark your calendar' games.