Women in Men's Sports

[moneyp]

Originally posted by Tanager
And Mone, didn't you learn your lesson in the Annika thread?

Hey, I got out of this one without steam coming out of my ears. I consider it a monumental success.

[GoodSpeak]

Originally posted by Brian Olewnick
crawjo, what did I tell you about arguing with goody?

Uh-huh.

He makes a statement, I counter, he makes another...it's called a "discussion" Brian. Perhaps you've heard of it?

My guess is you are one of those people on this BBS who thinks anything you say must be immediately accepted without question. Pardon me for looking toward deeper meaning.



Rubberstamps on sale in the lobby as you leave the indoctrination.





Amazing.

[GoodSpeak]

Originally posted by SinginSumo
Didn't everyone learn their lesson in the Kobe thread?

I am still waiting for some explanation of GoodSpeak's bottom line beef regarding women.

WTF...do you people read at all?


Post#1: Well, for starters, I was considering the neanderthal(s) who abused then raped this poor woman when all she wanted was to kick a damn football.

Post #2: Let me play the Devil's Advocate here for a minute and suggest to you that women have no business playing men's sports for the followng reasons:

Show where I am opposed to women in sports...can you all...please?


READ first, then criticize.



Wow.

[GoodSpeak]

Originally posted by mone peterson
Hey, I got out of this one without steam coming out of my ears. I consider it a monumental success.

Thanks a lot, Mone.


Cheap shot.

[Jazzzoline]

Originally posted by GoodSpeak
Pardon me for looking toward deeper meaning.

Hmph!

[frankiepop]

this is so sexist again. i mean, if u read an article of a woman attending a school
with male English teachers and one of the male teachers rape her, then should we ask...


are women needlessly putting themselves at risk attending English class with male teacherrs?

[GoodSpeak]

Re-read the article, 'Pop.

Did they teach full-contact essay writing at your school? Do a two pager or drop and give me fifty? Wha-?


This is about a woman who was sexually abused then raped for wanting to kick a football, not for writing an essay. I mean, for God's sake....like English teachers have nothing better to do than assault women who write poorly?


Talk about sexist.


Wow.















I absolutely NO idea what it is you are babbling on about.

[frankiepop]

i dont need to reread the article, GOODY.

i said 'if' - i made an ironic hypothetical to reflect the sexism of your statement. i think it was reciprocal. and u know exactly what i am saying. if you can see sexism in my hypo, then you can see the sexism in your statement. you are dancing around the issue.

if u cant see the sexism in your statement, then i give. your remarks often are clearly sexist. i dont see how any reasonable person could write it otherwise.



sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssshhhhh!

[Gary Sisco]

Agreed.

I've known plenty of women who can kick male butt in nearly every way. What matters is opportunity to develop the skills and strength (which is the only difference between the sexes on this question). If they're not given the opportunity, well, then, of course, they won't be able to compete. Indeed, almost all men are unable to compete at that level, for the same reasons, so what exactly is the point of the discussion, anyway, if not institutionalized sexism?

I have a cousin who was the first-ever girl pitcher in New York state Little League, and she was damned good at it. Enough to give her younger brother a permanent embarassment to live with.

Bronwyn was also a Little League pitcher, the first ever in her area (metro Springfield, MA).

Both had to fight to even get to try out, never mind to play. Boys don't face that problem. Any boy can try out for any sport, and it's simply taken for granted.

By the way, there are *many* women today pursuing recreational and even competitive boxing, so I'd watch my mouth on this subject unless you like your dentist a whole lot. You never know who you're talking to, or in the presence of. Pixels are cheap.

My company in boot camp (which at the time had the highest and hardest physical standards apart from the Marine Corps, and the highest intellectual standards of all the five services) was the first-ever integrated (men and women) company, and the women did everything the guys did, in the same ways, no breaks. They all made it, no problem. Three guys did not. They hadn't been able to pass the physical tests, even after three months of near continuous exercise and physical punishment (not corporal), and so were kept behind at basics until they could. One of those women became an SP in New York. You'd have a hard time talking a lot of guys into that job, at least in those days, when running berserk was routine.

[GoodSpeak]

Originally posted by frankiepop
i dont need to reread the article, GOODY.

i said 'if' - i made an ironic hypothetical to reflect the sexism of your statement. i think it was reciprocal. and u know exactly what i am saying. if you can see sexism in my hypo, then you can see the sexism in your statement. you are dancing around the issue.

if u cant see the sexism in your statement, then i give. your remarks often are clearly sexist. i dont see how any reasonable person could write it otherwise.



sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssshhhhh!

Once again, go back and re-read.

If "playing the Devil's advocate" makes my comments sexist, then I am afraid you are unaware of the meaning of this concept.

I never once stated I condone this sort of practice nor did I say I am opposed to women pursuing a career in sports...at any level. Now how you derive sexism from my words here in this context, I am at a complete loss to explain.


As to any hypothetical remarks you made, the clear indication of your use of an English teacher [or a teacher at all] is it is designed to have only one effect: to insult or put-down. You clearly know that I am a man and that I am a teacher of English. THAT hypothetical, as you called it, is a sexist remark directed toward my person and you know it. Besides, my response to you should further indicate that it is a specious argument at best...apples and oranges. There is no physical contact in an English class.

I am merely throwing out the idea here on this thread for the sole purpose of discussion and discovery. Is it at all possible to discuss issues on a BBS or are we only supposed to pick the kinds of topics that are devoid of any sort of controversy?

[Gary Sisco]

Get off it, Goodie, you're always ragging about women or your wife. You need to check out your real shit around women, bud.

[frankiepop]

goody, , then i give...

i tell ya what if i am in calif during the jazz fest this summer then we will have a beer...
i'll see u then...

unless u catch me in bed with your wife 1st... .tee hee

[GoodSpeak]

Originally posted by Gary Sisco
Get off it, Goodie, you're always ragging about women or your wife. You need to check out your real shit around women, bud.

I discuss issues, Gary, not gender. There are only two sexes, bud. What do you think the odds are something I talk about on this BBS might have to do with a woman? And 99% of what I have said about my wife is just joking around anyway. You don't know from Adam about how I am around women...but why let the facts get in the way of your accusations, eh?

I cannot be responsible for how you and others choose to take my position on the issues dealing with gender...that's your blind spot, not mine.


I think it is you who needs to back off here, Gary.

[GoodSpeak]

Originally posted by frankiepop
i tell ya what if i am in calif during the jazz fest this summer then we will have a beer...
i'll see u then...

It's a deal...I'll even buy the first round.

Originally posted by frankiepop
unless u catch me in bed with your 1st wife ... .tee hee

Well...it would be a surprise for me, too. I haven't seen her for almost 25 years now.

[GoodSpeak]

And now, if you will excuse me...I'm late for a former student's wedding.


A woman.

[Gary Sisco]

What issues? We're all anxiously waiting for an actual discussion from you, after all these years. Breathlessly, even.

[Gary Sisco]

PS -- It was a woman who led the final assaults on the cities of Leon and Managua, in July, 1979, leading to the overthrow of Somoza. Commandante Dora Maria Tellez. I'm telling you what. You wouldn't want to pick a fight with her. Just the fact that she was in charge of combat troops that came out of an incredibly macho culture is enough to know, if you have any sense.

[Lenny D.Guitarist]

Let's see.. are these predictions plausible? The Colorado coach gets fired. The girl writes a book, goes on the talk show circuit, is embraced by Oprah, Ellen DeGeneres, et al. Debate amongst yourselves.

[GoodSpeak]

Originally posted by Gary Sisco
What issues? We're all anxiously waiting for an actual discussion from you, after all these years. Breathlessly, even.

Please.

You just disagree, Gary. That's all, pure and simple.

Give it a rest.

[GoodSpeak]

Originally posted by Gary Sisco
PS -- It was a woman who led the final assaults on the cities of Leon and Managua, in July, 1979, leading to the overthrow of Somoza. Commandante Dora Maria Tellez. I'm telling you what. You wouldn't want to pick a fight with her. Just the fact that she was in charge of combat troops that came out of an incredibly macho culture is enough to know, if you have any sense.

You will of course note that it was I who mentioned the whole business about Queen Elizabeth I and Joan of Arc being leaders of men in war on another thread several days ago.

At no time have I ever said women aren't capable beings nor have I said they cannot become anything they choose to become. Some of the toughest people I know are women. Also some of the brightest, most talented, athletic and are, more often then not, the people I wish to spend most of my time with. In fact, if and when Hillary Clinton runs for the presidency, I will support her without reservation.

I have said this numerous times on this BBS...why you and the other Goody haters cannot comprehend this is an absolute mystery.


Perhaps you choose to, who knows...seems a bit foolish to keep preaching to the choir, IMHO.

[Gordon B]

I'm surprised that four people voted yes.

[Jazzzoline]

I did

[Jazzzoline]

I had a concrete situation in mind:

My son (almost 11 y/o) plays hockey. He is in an elite team. To be part of such a team, little guys have to work hard. And harder those who want to play front (center, wings): 90% of them want to play front, the other 10%, usually less skilled, plays defence, they don’t care playing defence as long as they “make” the team.

So, at the beginning of the season the selection camps happen. They filter the guys until the team of proud little guys is complete. In my son’s team, there are two girls. One of them is goaltender (the criteria for goaltending being: if your father rich enough to afford a new expensive equipment every year). The other girl plays defence. Obviously, this one is too tiny of a girl to play defence, though she is a little pack of energy.

What we thought actually happen: after a few matches, there was a breach on the defence side where she is playing, making them loose. The coach needs to do something for making the team win. So now starts the fun of finding out which of the front players will switch with the defence girl. Of course, no one wants to.

There are girls’ team.

[GoodSpeak]

Originally posted by Gordon B
I'm surprised that four people voted yes.

Why?

[GoodSpeak]

Originally posted by GoodSpeak
And now, if you will excuse me...I'm late for a former student's wedding.


A woman.

BTW, the gathering went off without a hitch and my former student's husband seems like a pretty cool head.

Not to mention one lucky guy. He gets a gal who is athletic, attractive, intelligent and one of the brightest students I ever coached on my Debate team.