Trumpet or trombone?

[GoodSpeak]

OK.

The piano and guitar guys have had their fun...now howza 'bout some props for the brass players, eh?

I choose trumpet.


You?

[Nick]

Love 'em both but the trumpet is my favorite instrument.

[JazzAt52ndStreet]

.....in jazz, trombone is usually played in a very sloppy fashion...i would have to go with trumpet.

-52nd

[MRS]

in jazz, trombone is usually played in a very sloppy fashion

[MRS]

in jazz, trombone is usually played in a very sloppy fashion

[MRS]

in jazz, trombone is usually played in a very sloppy fashion

[Pete C]

The instrument is irrelevant.

[MRS]

The instrument is irrelevant.

[JazzAt52ndStreet]

lol.....i saw that comming.

....I know it has nothing to do with the instrument, it just happens to be how it is played by alot of musicians.

....of course, there are exceptions to that rule, and no, I dont own any of the records posted. But it would be tough to make an argument, that for the most part, trombone playing (whether it be intentional or not) is played in a sloppy fashion.

-52nd

[John L]

The instrument is irrelevant.

OK, Pete. I'll let Ornette know that he doesn't even have to bring his alto the next time that you see him.

[Mike Schwartz]

.....in jazz, trombone is usually played in a very sloppy fashion...i would have to go with trumpet.

-52nd

That's the most ill informed, unsubstantiated, clueless, and frankly, stupid notion I've seen posted on a music board here in quite a while.


I'll end with 3 words... JAY JAY JOHNSON [learn them before you type next time]

[Pete C]

I've noticed on a couple of recent threads that JazzAt52ndStreet is wont to make very ludicrous, global pronouncements.

[clinthopson]

Impossible to decide

Louis Armstrong or Jack Teagarden?
Bunny Berigan or Vic Dickenson?
Dizzy Gillespie or JJ Johnson?
Clifford Brown or Curtis Fuller?
Shorty Rogers or Bob Brookmeyer?

Can't do it. But why?

[Thelonious Nick]

That's the most ill informed, unsubstantiated, clueless, and frankly, stupid notion I've seen posted on a music board here in quite a while.


I'll end with 3 words... JAY JAY JOHNSON [learn them before you type next time]

I don't see why it's ill-informed to say that trombonists tend to be sloppier. The pitch on trumpets is made by valves, while on trombones the pitch is made by the slide, which is less precise. So trombonists may indeed sound sloppier, or put another way, it may take a better ear to play a trombone as precisely as a trumpet. If we assume that musicians playing the trumpet and the trombone are of equal ability, it stands to reason that there would be more trumpeters who played with precision.

[GoodSpeak]

I don't see why it's ill-informed to say that trombonists tend to be sloppier. The pitch on trumpets is made by valves, while on trombones the pitch is made by the slide, which is less precise. So trombonists may indeed sound sloppier, or put another way, it may take a better ear to play a trombone as precisely as a trumpet. If we assume that musicians playing the trumpet and the trombone are of equal ability, it stands to reason that there would be more trumpeters who played with precision.

Excellent point, Nick.

Perhaps "less precise" is a better way to term the inherent differences between the two instruments.

OTOH, trombonists can "slur" or "slide" or "bend" notes far better than trumpeters can.

[LeMo]

I don't see why it's ill-informed to say that trombonists tend to be sloppier. The pitch on trumpets is made by valves, while on trombones the pitch is made by the slide, which is less precise. So trombonists may indeed sound sloppier, or put another way, it may take a better ear to play a trombone as precisely as a trumpet. If we assume that musicians playing the trumpet and the trombone are of equal ability, it stands to reason that there would be more trumpeters who played with precision.

Some imprecises trombonists in their most sloppiest records:

- Jackie McLean (GRACHAN MONCUR III): Destination... Out! (Blue Note)

- GEORGE LEWIS: Hommage to Charles Parker (Black Saint)

- Evan Parker/ GEORGE LEWIS: From Saxophone & Trombone (psi)

- Steve Lacy & ROSWELL RUDD: Monk's Dream (Verve)

- Gerry Hemingway Quartet (WALTER WIERBOS): Down To The Wire (hat ART)

- Lunge (GAIL BRAND): Strong Language (Emanem)

- Jon Hazilla & Saxabone (JOHN PIERCE): Form & Function (CIMP)

- JEB BISHOP Trio: Bishop/ Kessler/ Mulvenna (Okka Disc)

- Ethnic Heritage Ensemble (JOSEPH BOWIE): Freedom Jazz Dance (Delmark)

- NIELS WOGRAM & CONRAD BAUER: Serious Fun (CIMP)

- Mark Dresser & RAY ANDERSON: Nine Songs Together (CIMP)

Well, that's not much but I feel right now quite sloppier myself to dig deeper in my collection and much imprecise because of the sloppiness.
Time for a siesta, baby !

(besides his saxes & pocket trumpet, Joe McPhee plays also a very attractive VALVE trombone from time to time)

[Dan H.]

I don't see why it's ill-informed to say that trombonists tend to be sloppier. The pitch on trumpets is made by valves, while on trombones the pitch is made by the slide, which is less precise. So trombonists may indeed sound sloppier, or put another way, it may take a better ear to play a trombone as precisely as a trumpet. If we assume that musicians playing the trumpet and the trombone are of equal ability, it stands to reason that there would be more trumpeters who played with precision.

Fair enough. One advantage that the slide has over valves is that pitches can be played perfectly in tune if one has a good enough ear. In order to play well in tune on a valved instrument, tuning slides have to be pulled and/or pitches have to be "lipped" in tune on many notes. This can negatively affect the tone of the instrument.

Each instrument has its own advantages and disadvantages. Let's not compare one to another, just appreciate each for it's uniqueness.

[hornplayer]

.....in jazz, trombone is usually played in a very sloppy fashion...i would have to go with trumpet.

-52nd

what kind of SLOPPY remark is that? I have no idea what you mean by sloppy, but you certainly make it sound derogatory, and on behalf of all the FINE trombonists in Jazz, I resent that remark.

JJ Johnson was sloppy? Robin Eubanks is sloppy? Steve Turre is sloppy? Slide Hampton, Douglas Purviance, Curtis Fuller, Benny Powell, Dr. Billy Howell, Wycliffe Gordon, Conrad Herwig, Bill Hughes, Clarence Banks??????

Explain yourself, please!!!

[stonemonkts]

I chose trombone.

While I love the trumpet, there's something about a great trombone solo that just sends me.

Off the top of my head:

The end of "Homage to Charlie Parker", by the great George Lewis, for starters.

Robin Eubanks has a beautiful solo on "Empty Suits" which makes me swoon. JJ Johnson's fabulous solo on Miles Davis' "Walkin" (one of many fine solos on that track).

George Lewis again, following Braxton's amazing solo on Dortmund with one equally transcendent.

Practically anytime Ray Anderson raises the horn to his lips...I could go on and on.

[hermann]

... and the walls came tumbling down!

hermann

[mtaylorjazz]

hornplayer stole my answer!!



http://www.mark-taylor.biz
http://www.cdbaby.com/marktaylor

[Tom Storer]

JJ Johnson was sloppy? Robin Eubanks is sloppy? Steve Turre is sloppy? Slide Hampton, Douglas Purviance, Curtis Fuller, Benny Powell, Dr. Billy Howell, Wycliffe Gordon, Conrad Herwig, Bill Hughes, Clarence Banks??????

If Brookmeyer were here, he'd tell us which ones were sloppy and which ones weren't. ;-)

[JazzAt52ndStreet]

Im not saying they are bad players, the way the instrument is played i dont particularly enjoy.

Maybe a better term to replace sloppy would be "overly raunchy for my taste".

-52nd

[SinginSumo]

OK.

The piano and guitar guys have had their fun...now howza 'bout some props for the brass players, eh?

I choose trumpet.


You?

Who is the better hero? Superman or Captain America?

In what percentage of all records do trombone players get sloppy?


There are some truly idiotic questions posed here and even more moronic pronouncements about better & worse/trombone sloppiness. To be fair, many cool posts here disagreeing with ludicrous assertions.

[JazzAt52ndStreet]

Who is the better hero? Superman or Captain America?

In what percentage of all records do trombone players get sloppy?


There are some truly idiotic questions posed here and even more moronic pronouncements about better & worse/trombone sloppiness. To be fair, many cool posts here disagreeing with ludicrous assertions.

......I think you are misinterpreting some of my posts. The one about the lack of talent/lack of popularity. I have no opinion on that one, I asked the question because I was interested in geting an answer, instead, someone interpreted it as me bashing modern musicians....I played devils advocate on that post for the sake of conversation. But it seems to my quite cleer that the answer is that there is a lack of opportunity for the talent that is around, to become as recgonized by the general public.

As for the post about guitars and pianos, think of it as a "if you were stuck on an island and you could only take on thing" type of question. I wasn't trying to pronounce one better than the other, and it was definatly suppose to be more light hearted then it came across to be.

-52nd

[SinginSumo]

I hope that my desert island will be equipped with a pc and internet access so I can tell you if I would have a preference for trumpet or trombone under such circumstances.