SACD & DVD-A Disc Thread

[SinginSumo]

I have asked about this before on another thread but thought the topic deserved its own "play."

Well, my DVD player finally crapped out and on Friday before Memorial Day weekend no less. I'm guessing that any repair will cost roughly $80~$100 including bench time for diagnostics (labor) and parts; thus, a 2 year old DVD becomes a throwaway.

Assuming I can find one locally at a reasonable price ($135~$149) later this week I will be buying the Pioneer DV563AS, a model that incorporates play of progressive scan DVD, SACD, DVD-A, jpeg discs, etc. within one unit.

Keeping in mind that I suffer from middle age tinnitus, will I be able to hear a discernable difference with these "new" formats from conventional CDs?

I welcome recommendations of SACDs and DVD-As from our golden-eared posters on JC.

[Chris D]

SACD is the format I've heard, and it is a marked improvement in detail. The Stones catalog has been redone as hybrids, and albums like "Beggars' Banquet" really benefit.

[mjb]

I've had that player since December and it is terrific value for the money.

There is no doubt that you will hear a difference. Even my good lady wife (who has the hearing of a corpse) notices a difference.

If you go 5.1 ... another world opens. I have a few Miles and Trane SACDs and the difference from the remastered CDs is considerable and lovely.

[SinginSumo]

Now expecting SACDs in my mailbox of The Quintet (Massey Hall) and Bill Evans' Portrait In Jazz as we speak.

Really slim pickin's in these formats for jazz or even generally with new releases, huh?

[mjb]

Very slim here in Toronto. Many of the stores just hide them away with the regular CDs and some have just a tiny selection.

I have The Quintet SACD - it is not the best demostration of the medium but it is still better than the rest. Same for Tenor Madness. I am looking for Bill Evans' Sunday at the Village Vanguard.

I just got the latest David Bowie on hybrid SACD (selling for the same price as the regular version) Not surprisingly he has made remarkable use of the surround process.

Oh yeah - In a Silent Way ... terrific SACD.

[Pete C]

Now expecting SACDs in my mailbox of The Quintet (Massey Hall)

I don't quite understand the point in audio terms with an item like that. Isn't it like trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear?

[SinginSumo]

I don't quite understand the point in audio terms with an item like that. Isn't it like trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear?

I wanted a copy of this anyway. I figured that the best possible sonic improvement could only benefit this, one of the muddiest records that I've ever heard.

[AlexV]

Really slim pickin's in these formats for jazz or even generally with new releases, huh?

True, although things are starting to pick up.

I just stumbled across the latest Yo Miles! release this past weekend. A hybrid SACD from Cuneiform! With John Tchicai and Greg Osby in the band! (Oddly, a fact that you won't know by looking at the packaging.) I haven't had a chance to fully digest this one yet, but it is very well recorded.

As is Apparitions, by Tony Malaby. This is also a very musically rewarding disc, though you should know that I'm a sucker for bands with two drummers.

Vijay Iyer's Blood Sutra is also available as a hybrid SACD. Give this one a shot, especially if you like Andrew Hill's music.

Of course, there are the inevitable slew of reissues, as you know. Personally, I don't need to buy another version of Kind of Blue. But I did spring for some Art Pepper SACDs issued by Analogue Productions. Expensive, but lovingly remastered.

[willy]

MJB: Sunday at the Village Vanguard is fantastic on SACD. Only topped by the 45 RPM LP in terms of sound quality.

[SinginSumo]

I'd been through half a dozen or so SACD & DVD-A titles and had heard only the most marginal of sonic improvement (IF that) through my Grado headphones

until

- finally -

I played the Amadeus soundtrack.

Ahhhhh! Gorgeous presence and superb stereo separation.

[willy]

No offense, but headphones isn't the way to go in judging the sound quality of a recording. Granted, the Grados are good, but they don't come close to a good pair of speakers. If they did then audiophiles wouldn't worry so much about speakers. They'd all have cans strapped to their ears instead.

[SinginSumo]

Based on 2 or 5 speakers and how just how expensive are "good" speakers?

Even with perfect hearing I doubt that I'd agree with your premise. Nuance and subtlety through speakers are compromised by room dimensions, floor coverings, furniture, room layout and many other factors.

Take a look at many (if not most) of the liner notes' photos of musicians and you see any number of musicians with "cans attached to their heads." Why do I see so many performers with earpieces in both ears these days?

My initial feelings:

SACD and DVD-A are marginal improvements AT BEST on every disc that I've heard so far other than the Amadeus soundtrack.

-and/or-

My tinnitus knocks out whatever improvement I SHOULD be hearing in high frequencies, so much so that I can't really judge.

-and/or-

SACDs and DVD-A discs may be meant to be heard in surround sound to be fully appreciated.

[willy]

The reason they wear ear pieces is that it is easier to hear the mix, the mix the way they want it, through earpieces than through a PA system blaring at max volume. Same goes for the studio. Ask any of these performers if they would rather have those earpieces or a speaker system set up with the mix and volume the way they want it and they would chose the ladder.

Something tells me these people don't walk around their houses with earpieces in when listening to music.

Also, if you have tinnitus how can you be sure about any comparison in sound quality next to those who have no hearing ailments at all? I'm blind as a bat, but my hearing has always been problem-free.

[SinginSumo]

The reason they wear ear pieces is that it is easier to hear the mix, the mix the way they want it, through earpieces than through a PA system blaring at max volume. Same goes for the studio. Ask any of these performers if they would rather have those earpieces or a speaker system set up with the mix and volume the way they want it and they would chose the ladder.

Something tells me these people don't walk around their houses with earpieces in when listening to music.

Also, if you have tinnitus how can you be sure about any comparison in sound quality next to those who have no hearing ailments at all? I'm blind as a bat, but my hearing has always been problem-free.

I think it is nearly impossible to hear the mix "the way they want it" over speakers and this is precisely why they wear headphones. There is simply more detail on 'phones because the listener is immersed with "less" between the music and the ears. Speaking only for myself I prefer speakers when I have company, when I listen to full orchestras, when I am listening to a mono recording and when I am multi-tasking. I prefer headphones when I especially want to concentrate on the music.

We really don't know what other "people" do or wear in the comfort and privacy of their homes.

To try to be fair I listed my tinnitus as a possibility of why I heard little significant differences in any of these discs save one. It is also why I wanted to elicit opinions about these discs on this thread.

Did you mean in comparison to "those with no hearing ailments" or to yourself?

*****************************************************

I am surprised that more folks have not posted here.

[willy]

Myself and others (in regards to having good healthy ears). While the wife insists I have a few screws missing, and my vision is pretty bad, my hearing is sharp as can be.

In reality, the difference in sound quality may just be a personal preference. Just like favoring jazz or pop. Also, I do believe that it will get to the point (if it isn't approaching it now) where the human ear won't be able to tell the improvement in sound anymore. The human ear can only pick so much, even the perfect human ear, no?

Also, in a somewhat realated note, and this just may be me, but when getting into audio and playing around with speakers and distancing and so forth in search of that illusive perfect sound I notice my ears start to play tricks on me. It's as if I'm confusing the hell out of them instead of just leaving well enough alone.

[Scott Dolan]

Sumo,

I also suffer from Tinnitus(too much loud music through cans in my younger days). I do not think that it ultimately plays a big role in what you are hearing.

You make very good points as far as room settings are concerned. It all makes a huge difference.

I'm not sold on the DVD-A or SACD garbage. Yes, the resolution is a bit higher, but ultimately I don't know that it makes as significant a difference as some people like to make of it.

Unfortunately, improvements in sound will only be marginal at best.

Personally, I'd say save your money. You've obviously got a nice set of cans. The best option, if you can afford it(or more succinctly, if you WANT to spend the money on it) set up a good listening room with a nice transparent and accurate system.

[Nefertiti]

The situation as to SACD breakthrough is especially uncertain now. Only in the classical sector is there a regular flow of new releases. In jazz and pop, many major players have slowed down SACD releases considerably.

Just check the "recent additions" page on sa-cd.net. From a jazz fan's point of view, it's rather depressing.

http://www.sa-cd.net/recent


Release dates from jazzmatazz:

- Diana Krall - Love Scenes - SACD hybrid (Verve) July 13

- Cannonball Adderley with Milt Jackson - Things are Getting Better - SACD hybrid (Fantasy/Riverside) Aug 17
- Chet Baker - Chet Baker in New York - SACD hybrid (Fantasy/Riverside) Aug 17
- Bill Evans Trio - Exploration - SACD hybrid (Fantasy/Riverside) Aug 17
Vince Guaraldi Trio - A Boy Named Charlie Brown (OST) - SACD hybrid (Fantasy) Aug 17
- Modern Jazz Quartet - Django - SACD hybrid (Fantasy/Prestige) Aug 17
Thelonious Monk - Monk's Music - SACD hybrid (Fantasy/Riverside) Aug 17
- Wes Montgomery Trio - Wes Montgomery Trio - SACD hybrid (Fantasy/Riverside) Aug 17
- Sonny Rollins - The Sound of Sonny - SACD hybrid (Fantasy/Prestige) Aug 17

- Geri Allen - TBD - SACD (Telarc) Aug 24 — with Dave Holland and Jack DeJohnette

- The Manhattan Transfer - TBD - SACD (Telarc) Sept


"2004 and beyond":

- Count Basie - April in Paris - SACD (Verve)
- Joe Henderson - Lush Life - SACD hybrid (Verve)
- Herbie Hancock - Gershwin's World - SACD (Verve)
- Shirley Horn - Here's to Life: Shirley Horn with Strings - SACD (Verve)

Those Verve titles have already been announced a year ago and were delayed multiple times.