electro-acoustic improvisation

[achilles]

Reid,
thanks again for another thoughtful and illuminating post,
and yes, i guess i was sneering a bit--sorry.

I think my problem may be that I find the concept a lot more interesting than the music. And that's a bit frustrating. When I was a kid, my mother would drag me into NY every month to got to the museums. I was young, so I didn't like it much (until I was about 13). There was this one artist particularly well represented in museums and galleries and couldn't understand why this guy's stuff was art. How could it be? What was going on? Now, of course, I love the work of Ellsworth Kelly. The point here: maybe I need more time checking eai out. And maybe it's frustrating because other forms of challenging music--like free jazz, weren't so hard for me to appreciate.

[Sergio Zamora]

Lately I've been listening to Cardew's "Treatise" by Formanex. The first time I played it, I thought it was defective. It became a frustrating listen, but I played it again. Finally, I heard it through headphones, and it all made sense. In fact, there's a lot of stuff going on there, but I needed a very quiet listening environment (or, in lieu of that, headphones).

It's actually not comparable to dach, because there is, in fact, a lot more stuff going on. It's just played in very low volume. Particularly interesting is this very low rumbling sound that pervades the entire performance, which is actually very visceral once you actually hear it.

Now, if you think 'dach' is quiet, y'all should listen to Taku Unami's computer work (not counting 'Music for White Noise', which has some fairly noisy sections). Or that Wastell/Davies cd-r I raved about on the old board. Pure texture.

[jenny]

Originally posted by Reid
Knowing Cage's ideas were really critical to me enjoying eai, I think. Without understanding and accepting Cage's ideas, I don't know if I would have enjoyed eai as much. [/B]

I'm realize coming in horribly late into this discussion (I hesitated cos of my newbie status) -- but I was planning on posting something similar to Reid's sentiments. It wasn't until I understood Cage's philosophy, that I began to enjoy its practitioners.

... Well, to a point -- I watched Cage's "Telecast for Composers and Technicians" a few weeks ago, and let out a "Son of a !" when he took a cigarette break midway through.

[MRS]

<>

A lil' off topic. . .but I employed the mise en scene in question in a paper a while back and one of the major contributors to said effect is Russian filmstock, which is permeated with an almost humming shade of blue; which, as it has been articulated before, gives the audience a sense that everything transpiring within the scene is submerged in water. Excellent post Sergio (or is it Omar?)

Edit: As you can see I'm not really warming up to the new JC format all that quickly. My words are referring to Mr. Zamora's post at the end of page one of this thread. Thanks.

[Reid]

achilles,



It's cool, and I appreciate this.

FWIW, I liked Cage's concepts rather than his music. It was actually kinda surprising to find myself liking eai musicians as much as I did. Then again, the music, imo, is different from Cage, too. One other thing. You may never enjoy the music, and that's cool, too. (For a lot of John Zorn's music, I respect his concepts more than I enjoy his music. A good example of this is his game-pieces.)

Jenny,

Welcome! I hope you continue to share your thoughts on the board.

[Sergio Zamora]

Welcome, Jenny!

Michael, it's Sergio Omar Zamora, but feel free to use either name, or both, or other, or none

[Uli]

It's gonna be lowercase z for me from now on or silent z.

[Sergio Zamora]

Originally posted by Uli
It's gonna be lowercase z for me from now on or silent z.

I'd rather you call me reductionist post-omar

[ryans]

I recently ordered MIMEO/Tilburry- the hands of carravagio from Erstwhile. Looking forward to it. I t will be my first taste of eai...

[mke]

I've been wondering: is lowercase the same as LOWERCASE?

Is lowerCASE equivalent to LOWErcase and to lOwErCaSe and to LowErCasE?

[Sergio Zamora]

Ryan,

Let us know what you think of Caravaggio!


re: lowercase. Let me clarify one thing: I think all of those labels are just plain silly, and are just a way to try to relate the music to the young hipster electronica crowd with their myriad of sub-genre names. I'm good with just calling it electro-acoustic improv, despite the deficiencies of that label. And the only reason I label it is so we can discuss it. I'm not trying to identify or exclude any particular music from discussion, though I do feel that certain aesthetic distinctions should be pointed out only to have a better understanding of the musics.

So, if someone would want to include, say, Aphex Twin in e-ai, have at it, but there is no denying that there is a lot of diifference between AT and, say, Filament, even if it's difficult for someone like me to articulate it.

[hearsay]

Well I've never heard a record where Aphex Twin improvised. I could understand if someone wanted to include a group like Supersilent that is also totally improvised, but of a more narrative aesthetic.

[ryans]

just listened to Carravagio for the first time... my god. is all eai close to as good as this. my brain feels a little fried now but it is a sonically brilliant record! Too much going on to digest it at one sitting. where next? I'm guessing AMM?

What a week, this and my first dose of Messiaen....

[Reid]

I would recommend La Voyelle Liquide. But AMM would also be a good place to start. I think Newfoundland is great, but there are some very quiet sections in it.

[ryans]

La Voyelle Liquide looks very interesting especially due to the fact that both are percusionists. Everything on Erstwhile looks good now... these guys know how to run a label. Anyone heard the new Rowe/Lehn/Schmickler "Rabbit Run"? And although Carravagio was my first hearing of these artists I can't say I am not terribly excited for the duo of Rowe/Tilburry! THis has to be amazing...

[Brian Olewnick]

Rabbit Run should be out next week. It's pretty...violent for a lot of the time, not as "organic" as HOC, at least as one usually thinks of the term. Also, its 50 tracks are designed to be played in shuffle mode, so it's a very different creature.


[I've been informed that 'Rabbit Run' is now 42 tracks and its content has been altered substantially since I heard a working copy a month or two ago.]

As I've said before, Rowe/Tilbury is just extraordinary, well up there in beauty alongside HOC. Should be available in May.

There was an AMM thread on the old board if those archives are eventually activated. But, yes, I'd rec 'Newfoundland' as a good place to start.

[Gary Sisco]

Ryan -- No, not all eai is as good as HOC but yes there are many excellent records, on Erstwhile, and other labels. Bon voyage.

[frankpop1]

i was discussing 'dach' with abbey, whose involvement in the making of the cd may be as important as any of the musicians, where he became almost a 4th musician. we discussed a # of other approaches to quiet music that we agree rarely have ever worked. yet 'dach' is striking. i do agree that u must have the right sound system or it doesnt work. there is too much subtlety occuring.

'dach' seems complete with undertones and perfectly timed. it is almost healing or as a meditative type experience. 'dach' is a classic to me . it may even reach my top 10. certainly, i listen to 'dach' about as much as any cd over the last year.

the only other musical piece like 'dach' that really worked was a cage piece that he composed for merce cunningham found on the videotape 'points in space' where cage removed all but the first consonant from some spoken words by computer manipulation. tho merce's dancers seemed to be fascinated most by a piece called 'evergreen' that was composed for them by la monte young in the early 60s. i only heard a short moment of that. i am curious. (& great cd covers from erst!)

i consider 'dach' an exception to the rule, a fluke, or a chance landing. whatever it is, it's good sound. 'dach' works for me.

[Armando]

Wrapped Islands is the record that started my current Erstwhile kick. And now that I've actually had the time to listen to several Erst releases, I can confidently say that each is very different from the other.

I love it when music demands your attention like this. The rewards are wonderful.

One such instance happened last night as I listened to the Burkhard Stangl/dieb13 CD. I was doing some work and at one point during my listening I stopped what I was doing and just listened intently. The soft sounds of the guitar and subtle noises blended so sweetly that I just smiled and knowing smile.

There are moments like that with most of the music I listen to, not just eai. But sometimes it's harder for me to hear it in eai. But when I do I feel like some marvelous treasure has been revealed.

[Sergio Zamora]

Originally posted by ryans
I can't say I am not terribly excited for the duo of Rowe/Tilburry! THis has to be amazing...

What Rowe/Tilbury album? Did Rowe and Tilbury record an album?

[achilles]

It's coming out in May--read Brian's article in the new WIRE.

[Other Steve]

Originally posted by achilles
It's coming out in May--read Brian's article in the new WIRE.

An excellent article, by the way, Mr. Olewnick.

[ryans]

anywhere online we can read this article?

[Brian Olewnick]

Sergio is being his usual smartass self; his avatar is the cover for the forthcoming Rowe/Tilbury disc. Hey, now that fpop's using 'dach', that's three Ersty avvies. The minions march on!

Thanks, Steve. I'll only say that though I already appreciated your editorship, I really do now. Tilbury's orginal commentary was blunted a bit, for instance. But at least it's out there.

Ryans, afaik, it's not available on-line. You just haveta buy it! Steve, incidentally, also has a fine piece in there, a review of February's AMPLIFY festival at Tonic.

[Sergio Zamora]

And I still haven't heard 'Doris'!

So, I finally read Brian's piece on Tilbury yesterday (subscription ran out, so I bought it in the store). I'm not sure what Tilbury was expecting, as I haven't read his reply, but I thought Brian's article was pretty well-balanced. At least half of it was about his boycott, and the title of the article also referred to his political stance. And it wasn't a very long piece in the first place. In any case, I'm curious to read his letter.

[Gary Sisco]

I told Brian on the lost thread that his article had already generated more political discussion than Tilbury's private, unknown, personal boycott was ever going to do, otherwise. He should be grateful for it, if anything.

[Sergio Zamora]

Originally posted by Gary Sisco
I told Brian on the lost thread that his article had already generated more political discussion than Tilbury's private, unknown, personal boycott was ever going to do, otherwise. He should be grateful for it, if anything.

Yeah, it was a good discussion. It was better than an Alley political discussion because the nutcases didn't find it. I had enough difficulty discussing (due to my debating weakness, not the weakness of my ideas, imo) with intelligent, reasonable people - I don't need that bunch.

[Nathaniel Catchpole]

I guess this is the first Erst I've beaten OZ to so all I'm going to say is.

Nah nah nah naaaah naaaah. nah nah nah naaaaah naaaah.

[Nathaniel Catchpole]

Got Duos for Doris from Mr Abbey on Saturday, and on first listen it's a lovely, lovely record. OZ, it'll be worth the wait when it arrives.

[Brian Olewnick]

I was going to post a review of the show at Galapagos on Thursday night the next day and then all hell broke loose here. Briefly, there was a very short set by Stangl/Dieb13, half of which was essentially the first track from 'eh' (apparently, this is a "piece" of sorts. Very nice but too short. Kaffe Matthews did two solo laptop sets, the first overly long and way too woozy, the second a lot chunkier and to the point. Martin Siewart and Martin Brandlmayr (who will have an Erst release probably later this summer) performed an excellent set, the former on guitar and electronics, the latter on drums. Brandlmayr mixes in the sort of quasi-jungle flourishes he specializes in with Radian to great effect here, generating lots of surging, subtle power. Efzeg (Stangl, Dieb13, Siewart and Boris Hauf with Billy Roisz on video and electronics) closed the evening with a fine, undulating set that hit a few delicisous peaks. Nice evening, making me especially anxious to hear more Siewart/Brandlmayr. Nice room, too.