November-10th-2004, 09:56 AM
Reevaluating @ 500k
This certainly seems like cause for concern:
Vitamin E May Do More Harm Than Good, Study Finds
51 minutes ago
By Maggie Fox, Health and Science Correspondent
NEW ORLEANS (Reuters) - Vitamin E supplements, which millions take in the hope of longer, healthier lives, may do more harm than good, researchers reported on Wednesday.
Have questions about your health?
Find answers here.
In fact, people taking high doses of vitamin E may in some cases be more likely to die earlier, although the reasons are not clear, said Dr. Edgar Miller of Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, who led the study.
"I think people take vitamin E because they think it is going to make you live longer, but this (study) doesn't support that," Miller told reporters.
Miller and colleagues re-analyzed 19 studies of vitamin E and health between 1993 and 2004. The trials involved more than 136,000 mostly elderly patients in North America, Europe and China.
People who took 200 international units of vitamin E a day or more died at a higher rate during the study, which lasted three years, than people who did not take supplements, they told a meeting of the American Heart Association (news - web sites).
"It's about a 5 percent increased risk at 45 years in the trials pooled together," Miller said.
"That doesn't sound like a lot but if you apply it to 25 percent of the (U.S.) adult population taking vitamin E, that is significant."
Miller, whose findings are also being published online by the Annals of Internal Medicine, said two-thirds of people who take vitamin E supplements take 400 IU or more.
"We don't think that people need to take vitamin E supplements, that they get enough from the diet," he said. Nuts, oils, whole grains and green leafy vegetables are all rich in vitamin E.
MUCH MORE THAN NEEDED
The average U.S. diet supplies six to 10 IU of E, Miller said. The Institute of Medicine (news - web sites), which sets recommended doses of vitamins and minerals, gives 1,500 IU of E as a daily upper limit.
"I would say it is too high," Miller said. The U.S. government's Food and Drug Administration (news - web sites) is barred by law from regulating dietary supplements so the limits are voluntary.
People take large doses of vitamin E in the belief that it helps counter oxidation by unstable "free radical" molecules, which damages cells and can accelerate aging and lead to heart disease and cancer.
Miller, who was surprised by the findings of the study, said there could be several ways the vitamin supplementation is damaging the body.
While vitamin E in low doses is a powerful antioxidant, in higher doses its effects may promote oxidative damage, and may also overwhelm the body's natural antioxidants, he said.
Dr. Raymond Gibbons of the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, said the evidence has been building against vitamin E supplements.
"Despite this ... I see many, many patients still taking vitamin E and I have to convince them not to," he told a separate news conference.
But the Council for Responsible Nutrition, a trade group for supplement makers, criticized the report.
"This is an unfortunate misdirection of science in an attempt to make something out of nothing for the sake of headlines," said the group's John Hathcock.
November-10th-2004, 10:19 AM
JC's Top Member 2011®
This brings up a pet peeve of mine, which is the public's tendency to embrace the latest medical findings as gospel and become compulsive about them. The problem is, much of what we know today will be re-evaluated with a different conclusion later. It happens all the time.
Remember when butter was the bad, saturated fat food, and everyone started eating margarine? Then margarine was villified for trans fats and links to cancer and people started eating butter again. And then we go from low fat to low carb and suddenly everything we ate before is bad and everything we avoided became good. Vitamins are good, vitamins are bad. Blah, blah, blah.
The one thing that nobody wants to think about is moderation. It's all or nothing. Tell me what's good, and I'll take massive doses of it and live forever. Blueberries are good for my brain? I'll eat six pints a day and be the smartest guy in the world. Carbs are bad? I'll eat nothing but red meat. Green tea removes free radicals? Hook me up to an IV. Vitamin B12 will relieve my stress? Just give me the whole bottle.
If you think the public has had the wool pulled over its eyes by politicians and political parties, it still can't compare to the blind ignorance we show in making dietary choices. Put a "low fat" label on a box of cereal, never mind that it only contained one gram per serving in its normal form, and people will buy it. Make a low carb Twinkie, and some dumbf**k will buy that, too. What nobody wants to do is take a common sense approach. Let's think about it.
Did the human race survive the challenges of natural selection by taking huge quantities of vitamin supplements? Or by purging our diets of entire food groups? Last time I checked, they didn't. What we do know is that there have been fat, skinny, fit and unfit bodies for as long as we've been around. We know that people who eat less and exercise more are healthier and in better shape than people who eat lots and live sedentary lives. We also know that foods contain vitamins and different macro nutrients that our bodies need.
For a change, try eating a variety of foods in reasonable portion sizes. You'll be amazed to learn that mixing up your diet exposes you to the broadest possible array of benefits that different food groups offer. You'll also avoid overeating any one ingredient in any of those foods that could do you harm. And once in a while, not every day, eat something just because you feel like it. It's not only not going to kill you, but it's good for your psyche. You gotta live it up once in a while.
See how easy that is?
Pete, my apologies for the rant. This whole thing strikes a nerve with me.
Making excuses for himself in advance,
November-10th-2004, 10:29 AM
JM is Back!
I'll live it up with you anytime, Larry. What was the rest of his post??
Last edited by jazzy mary; November-10th-2004 at 10:30 AM.
November-10th-2004, 10:38 AM
For Larry's cogent post.........
And don't forget to drink plenty of water.
November-10th-2004, 10:44 AM
The moldiest of all figs
We have a tendency to overvitaminize ourselves. I plead guilty.
I think I'll stick to the mega B since mosquitos eat me alive and the stuff seems to work.
Also I take a lot of Vit C because Linus Pauling said it was the thing to do and Linus was a very smart guy.
The fact is, that if you eat a balanced diet, you'll probably get all the vitamins your body can use.
Bright moments - right now!
November-10th-2004, 11:10 AM
Isn't life WONDERFUL !
Originally Posted by Jimmy Cantiello
Water could be contaminated too!
Last edited by Jazzzoline; November-10th-2004 at 11:11 AM.
All or nothing at all
November-10th-2004, 11:41 AM
Of course, that's what gives it it's taste................
Originally Posted by Jazzzoline
November-10th-2004, 12:40 PM
I'm the face.
I've been awfully gassy lately, and I checked online for symptoms of such a thing and one of the culprits was Vitamin E overdosing. I have been taking E vitamins in addition to my daily multi, so I'd already decided to lay off. I also consume a lot of E-powered foods so I don't think I'm risking any deficiency.
According to my wife, I'm more pleasant to be around now!
November-10th-2004, 12:42 PM
Hopefully you were asking people to pull your finger..............
November-10th-2004, 01:28 PM
mmmm low-carb twinkie!
November-10th-2004, 03:40 PM
Just be frank
I saw that article, too. I've been taking 200s in addition to my multi for about a year or more. I started with 400s, but that seemed excessive, so I cut down. Now I may stop with the supplement altogether.
November-11th-2004, 08:45 PM
Been taking 400 IUs of natural Vitamin E everyday since the mid 70's or so.
Had a comprehensive blood lipid profile last month. Total cholesterol 152, HDL 65, tri-glycerides 35, LDL 80. Resting heart rate of 52. Now I hear that Vitamin E is gonna give me a stroke or at the very least, a survivable heart attack. The only thing that will incapicitate me to such degrees would be another Kenny G Christmas album.
November-12th-2004, 06:28 AM
Great numbers, Lenny. Now if you can reverse youe HDL and LDL numbers you'd be good to go, although I'm sure they're a hell of a lot better than most people's numbers as they are................
November-12th-2004, 07:37 AM
Reevaluating @ 500k
There's absolutely nothing wrong with his ratio. I'd kill for those numbers.*
Originally Posted by Jimmy Cantiello
*But I wouldn't change my diet.
November-12th-2004, 08:19 AM
I always think some day I should have myself checked for cholesterol and all that stuff.
I don't take any vitamins other than what comes in the food I eat.
I had a good friend in high school who was a cheerful drug consumer. More or less whatever came down the pike, he'd give it a try. He moved from New York to California and when I asked him why, he replied, "The hallucinogens are much better! Just say yes to drugs!"
Years later he came over to Paris for my wedding. He had given up drugs all together, he announced, and I was glad for him. Soon I realized he had replaced drugs with a bewildering array of vitamins and dietary supplements. He would take all these little bottles and vials out and study them and select the right combination for whatever time of day or phase of the moon it was. I just shook my head. But I'm sure it's a lot better for him than what he used to ingest.
November-12th-2004, 08:46 AM
I never said there was anything wrong with his ratio. There's always room for improvement, though...................
Originally Posted by Pete C
November-14th-2004, 01:43 AM
Just be frank
It seems like the more I hear about this the potential problem is only for those who are taking more than 400 IU/day. And probably significantly more.
I'll stick with my 200's for now, and not worry about it.
November-14th-2004, 02:18 PM
Went for a run today in the Park with a few friends, one of whom is a physician. He read the report and he's now swearing off all Vitamin E supplementation until this stuff is cleared up in subsequent studies. Says it's really statistically significant. I haven't taken any in 3 days, feel no better or worse. My Centrum has 30 IUs of E.
November-14th-2004, 05:27 PM
Vitamine E was recommended to me by another guitarriat for stong nails. I tried it and after about six months if I cut myself shaving I bled like a stuck pig. It did nothing for my nails.
November-14th-2004, 06:58 PM
Just be frank
Interesting, Lenny. My multi has 50 IUs, too.
I'm still on the fence about this, I guess. I'll finish up the bottle and maybe I can get a more difinitive answer by then.
November-15th-2004, 04:58 AM
I take a Centrum, Vitamin C 500 mg, Selenium 200 mcg, 2 Saw Palmetto capsules, and an occasional flaxseed capsule. Everything I've read about Vitamin E prior to this report was all positive.