NBA 2004-2005 - Page 68

Jon Abbey · May-1st-2005, 12:47 AM

yeah, I can't really comment, I didn't see the game, but if anyone blames him for that turnover, they're clueless.

apologies to Andy, but can someone please beat the Spurs? I thought they were painful to watch before, but now Duncan's hobbled in addition? ugh ugh ugh, COME ON NUGGETS!

Steve Reynolds · May-1st-2005, 06:22 AM

I don't have a job and I think I might rather be dead than to be Tom Tolbert

Andy Jones · May-1st-2005, 08:35 AM

No apologies needed, Jon. I understand that last night's game was, for the most part, not an especially aesthetically pleasing game, unless you were a fan. Even as a fan, I found the third quarter doubly painful to watch (though the first and second quarters were to my liking, and the victory was very satisfying. Previous Spurs teams made a habit of losing playoff games exactly like this one).

Still, Jon, you've said repeatedly here--and I'm paraphrasing, please correct me if I'm wrong--that one of the things you enjoy the most about the NBA is watching supremely athletically gifted players do unexpected things. I am admittedly biased, but that seems to me to be an apt description of Ginobili. He's not a pure shooter like McGrady or Carter (though he does have a nice stroke), but he breaks down defenses better than any recent NBA player apart from Kobe-with-Shaq, he rebounds, he defends ferociously, he's an excellent passer, and he gives his all on every play. He is as exciting to watch, to me, as any current NBA player. He's really come into his own this year, I think, and he's given the Spurs precisely that unpredictable element that was missing on the "painful to watch before" (sez you) Robinson-Duncan teams. You're right that Horry gave the Spurs the cushion that they needed last night, but Ginobili won last night's game more or less single-handedly.

For what it's worth, I don't think that Duncan is any more "hobbled" than he was during game 2--when he was said by all to be "back"--and he said likewise during the post-game interviews and in this morning's paper. He was clearly out of rhythm at the beginning of the game, and the early touch fouls, along with Camby's very impressive low-post defense, kept him from finding it. (There have been local reports this week that Camby will win the Defensive Player of the Year award, with Bowen coming in second in the voting. While I would give it to Big Ben myself--without, frankly, thinking twice about it--Camby is certainly one of the most deserving candidates.) I strongly suspect that last night's game will prove to be Duncan's worst game of the playoffs. If I'm wrong, the playoffs will probably end for the Spurs soon thereafter.

Captain Hate · May-1st-2005, 08:44 AM

George Karl needs his meds adjusted rather than whine about Ginobili shoving it up his bitch team's ass. Maybe Karl should figure out how to get something positive out of thuglife douche Carmello than complaining about other team's players.

Robert Horry = DAGGER!!!

Jason Bivins · May-1st-2005, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Hate

FEAR THE ZARDS!

The headband-less Hughes played like a demon, didn't he? Antonio Davis played like a moron, didn't he?

Still 2 fast, scrappy, fun teams, whichever way the series turns out. But I'm going out on a limb with a game 4 prediction: Kwame Brown once again gets more than 2 points! Offseason trade, baby.

Chris D · May-1st-2005, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Bivins

The headband-less Hughes played like a demon, didn't he?

For such an elite player, Larry Hughes cries more than anyone I can remember post-MJ. Every call against him, he's in some ref's ear. I'd "T" him up just to make him stop whining.

This series could either go 5 or 7. Ben Gordon being sick changed the equation out of the gate, I'm thinkng the Bulls snatch the next one in Wash.

Jon Abbey · May-1st-2005, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Jones

Still, Jon, you've said repeatedly here--and I'm paraphrasing, please correct me if I'm wrong--that one of the things you enjoy the most about the NBA is watching supremely athletically gifted players do unexpected things. I am admittedly biased, but that seems to me to be an apt description of Ginobili. He's not a pure shooter like McGrady or Carter (though he does have a nice stroke), but he breaks down defenses better than any recent NBA player apart from Kobe-with-Shaq, he rebounds, he defends ferociously, he's an excellent passer, and he gives his all on every play. He is as exciting to watch, to me, as any current NBA player. He's really come into his own this year, I think, and he's given the Spurs precisely that unpredictable element that was missing on the "painful to watch before" (sez you) Robinson-Duncan teams. You're right that Horry gave the Spurs the cushion that they needed last night, but Ginobili won last night's game more or less single-handedly.

yeah, you're definitely biased, although correct to some extent. I'm talking about freaks like Shawn Marion, Rashard Lewis, Amare Stoudemire, etc. ESPN has an article in their current magazine on 5 of these guys, including Ginobili, and there's a funny quote from Lewis about MG, that he's never seen anyone quite in control of his body the way MG is, how sometimes he splits doubleteams by intentionally tripping. I'd agree that this year's Spurs team at full strength is more fun to watch than previous ones, but I'd still much rather watch Phoenix, Denver, Seattle, Dallas or Houston if given a choice.

Jon Abbey · May-1st-2005, 02:26 PM

does everyone else have the same problem as I do with ESPN telecasts, where it's very hard to see the game properly, because the color contrast they're transmitting is too extreme, meaning the floor becomes an extreme white? I have this problem quite a bit on ESPN no matter where the game is being played, never on any other channels, very annoying.

Uli · May-1st-2005, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Abbey

does everyone else have the same problem as I do with ESPN telecasts, where it's very hard to see the game properly, because the color contrast they're transmitting is too extreme, meaning the floor becomes an extreme white?

No.

Jon Abbey · May-1st-2005, 03:46 PM

to be fair, it seems as if most of your senses have gone at this point, so I'd also appreciate an answer from someone else. this happened to me in my old apartment also, I suppose it could just be my local cable system, but that seems odd also...

Jon Abbey · May-1st-2005, 03:47 PM

in fact, now I'm watching highlights of the ESPN game on ABC, and they look normal. very strange...

Enforcer · May-1st-2005, 05:39 PM

I haven't noticed a problem with the broadcasts, Jon. But I have noticed that the ESPN feed seems really sensitive to light and dark flashes when camera flashes go off.

I can't believe the Pistons won that game. The Sixers played so well, especially on the defensive end. Iverson was almost unstoppable. I will say that I would put the ball in Chauncey Billups' hands in crunch time over most players. I mean, Reggie Miller is probably option number one, especially if you need a three. But after that, I can't think of anyone with more ice in his veins in the clutch than Billups. I think the late game pressure changed the tide in that game. Suddenly, the Pistons were getting good looks and the Sixers were hoisting bad shots. Same players on the floor, but big difference in how the two teams handled the big possessions, I think.

Jon Abbey · May-1st-2005, 06:44 PM

that was a key game for Detroit, especially with Miami finishing up today. they need to put Philly away in the next one, no one knows that better than them. great team.

I think Miller's overrated for clutch shots, he hasn't made too many of those in a while. I'd take Ray Allen or Ben Gordon over him, as well as Mr. Billups.

Captain Hate · May-1st-2005, 07:53 PM

Reggie's had a very long productive career. He was never surrounded by as much talent as Billups currently is.

I kept hearing how good Dwayne Wade is but I had no idea just how good he is.

Enforcer · May-1st-2005, 08:36 PM

Guys,. help me out here. If a player is fouled in the act of shooting, the scorekeeper doesn't charge him for a FGA, correct? What happens when the shot goes in during a three point play? Is that a FGM and an FGA, or neither? I thought I knew how this worked, but crunching some numbers on a formula I've been toying with (don't ask), I'm not sure.

Enforcer · May-1st-2005, 09:01 PM

Considering what I see, I'm surprised that...

Bruce Bowen can have such a clumsy looking stroke but still managed to lead the NBA in 3 point FG% one season.

That a little, mop-haired guy like Steve Nash could be in contention for the MVP award in a league filled with big, super athletic guys.

That Jeff Foster's head is actually attached to a human body, not sitting on a shelf in a building full of B movie horror flick props.

moneyp · May-1st-2005, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Nagel

Guys,. help me out here. If a player is fouled in the act of shooting, the scorekeeper doesn't charge him for a FGA, correct? What happens when the shot goes in during a three point play? Is that a FGM and an FGA, or neither? I thought I knew how this worked, but crunching some numbers on a formula I've been toying with (don't ask), I'm not sure.

Nope, if a player is fouled in the act of shooting and misses, it doesn't count as an FGA. If he makes it, it's a FGM and an FGA. Weird, I know.

So I'm asking. What's the formula about?

Jon Abbey · May-1st-2005, 10:58 PM

Wade seems to just keep getting better, that's going to be a great series with Detroit if they both stay healthy.

great double bill tomorrow night, Dallas/Houston game 5 and SA/Denver game 4. do you feel good about rooting against lil' Earl Boykins, Andy?

man, how entertaining is Phoenix? Stoudemire is ridiculous, him against Shaq or Big Ben or a healthy Duncan could be epic. he has the best ability to contort his body around the basket for a big man that I've ever seen, even Hakeem wasn't like this. I think their starting five are my favorite five ever, beating out that Clippers team when they used Miles, Odom, Maggette, Q, and Keyon Dooling. that was the first glimpse of a team that could play this high above the floor, I still can't quite believe Phoenix has kept it up this long, especially with such a thin bench, but, wow, are they fun. now they get to rest and play the survivor of the Dallas/Houston wars.

the Pistons offense looked like it was getting a little predictable at times today, I'm still not quite sure how they won that game and I watched it. even if they lose in 5, I think Philly has proven that the Webber move was a good gamble, on the floor at least. it was asking both him and the team to do a lot of adapting at a very late stage of the season, but it seems as if they've adjusted just in time. if they can keep Dalembert and Korver, that's not a bad talent base for Iverson to work with. Webber's an incredible teammate, the bounce passes he was making today in the halfcourt were beautiful, and he and Iverson should only get better together, they'll be dangerous next year. I underestimated them a little bit, Jim O'Brien's one of the best coaches in the league.

Enforcer · May-1st-2005, 11:22 PM

Moné, I'm working on a variation of the plus-minus ratings. My own little twist. Trust me, it's completely worthless, at least so far.

Jon, I'm impressed with Philly, too. Good point about O'Brien, who has been drawing fire for some reason, nothing that makes sense to me. I don't know what he did in these last two games in Philly, but there were some slick adjustments. It's almost impossible to outrebound the Pistons, but the Sixers did that today.

Enforcer · May-2nd-2005, 08:05 AM

Interesting piece in today's Detroit News about the last play Philly called in the game yesterday. Apparently, the advance scout for the Pistons got Larry Brown to defend the play he expected O'Brien to call and they got exactly what they were expecting. Brown rarely yields to an assistant, but the scout was adamant about it and the gamble paid off. This was the play that led to Korver taking a tough heave from behind the arc on Philly's last possession.

The Pistons really do need to win game 5. Tayshaun hurt his ankle late in the game and it was stiffening up as he limped to the team bus. He says he'll play tomorrow, but we'll see. LB said Tayshaun is the one guy they can't afford to lose in the playoffs. I'd argue that you could say that about another five guys on the team, but his point is well taken. Tayshaun logs a ton of minutes and nobody on the bench can approximate what he does. If the Pistons can win tomorrow night, they can get some rest for Tayshaun and everyone else. It's going to be a war, though. Philly will be guns a-blazing with nothing to lose on the verge of elimination.

And Rasheed, although he did come up big in the late stages of the game last night, needs to reestablish himself down low. He was huge in the first two games, but was not contributing a post presence or rebounding the way he needs to in games 3 and 4.

walto · May-2nd-2005, 08:17 AM

What surprises me about O'Brien's performance this year (and it's something the Philly boosters are complaining about) is that opponents are shooting for a high pct. against the Sixers. I think that's largely a personnel issue, though. Iverson is too small to guard many people he's supposed to take one-on-one, and Webber and Korver are both too slow. That causes them to have to double-team a lot. So, good passing teams get a lot of open threes against them.

I completely agree that picking up Webber was a great move, and I think they'll be a dangerous team next year. I don't know if they can steal a win in Detroit, but they've got a shot--especially if Prince is hurt.

Chris D · May-2nd-2005, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Abbey

does everyone else have the same problem as I do with ESPN telecasts, where it's very hard to see the game properly, because the color contrast they're transmitting is too extreme, meaning the floor becomes an extreme white? I have this problem quite a bit on ESPN no matter where the game is being played, never on any other channels, very annoying.

No, Jon, that might be an imbalance with your cable operator. Mine's fine.

walto · May-2nd-2005, 10:01 AM

I haven't noticed that problem either.

moneyp · May-2nd-2005, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walto

What surprises me about O'Brien's performance this year (and it's something the Philly boosters are complaining about) is that opponents are shooting for a high pct. against the Sixers.

Defense isn't the problem for the Sixers. They were a pretty good defensive team all year (10th in points allowed per possession), although I'm not sure whether they got better or worse with Webber in the lineup. Although their FG% allowed is below average, it's not terrible, and they more than make up for it by forcing turnovers (second in the league) and keeping opponents off the offensive glass (6th in the league).

The problem, as it has been during most of the AI era, is the offense. They were 24th in points scored per possession this year, despite AI having his "best year ever."

For the curious, here's how the Sixers offense has ranked during AI's tenure:

1997: 22nd
1998: 21st
1999: 10th
2000: 25th
2001: 7th
2002: 23rd
2003: 11th
2004: 26th
2005: 24th

Even a couple of his good years come with a couple of caveats. 1999 was a strike year and in 2003 Van Horn ate into AI's possessions and Eric Snow had a career year. 2001 was a legitimately great year by AI. I wouldn't have voted him MVP, but I think it's the one year where his performance has lived up to his reputation.

In any case, his teams have never been able to sustain offensive consistency, always returning into the lower third of the league.

Enforcer · May-2nd-2005, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mone peterson

2001 was a legitimately great year by AI. I wouldn't have voted him MVP, but I think it's the one year where his performance has lived up to his reputation.

The only guy who should ever win the MVP is this guy.

moneyp · May-2nd-2005, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Nagel

The only guy who should ever win the MVP is this guy.

Or Tim Duncan in years where Shaq plays less than 70 games. Even though he only played 73, I'd put him first on my ballot this year. Forget about Jason Kidd and Steve Nash. When it comes to making teammates better, watch Damon Jones and Udonis Haslem when Shaq is on the floor and when he's not. World of difference.

Noj · May-2nd-2005, 10:33 AM

All the doubts about Miami's supporting cast aren't proving to be true, Haslem and Eddie Jones both played great against the Nets. With Mourning playing strong and Shaq now able to rest, look out East!

May the Suns shoot 60% from three for the rest of the playoffs...

walto · May-2nd-2005, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mone

For the curious, here's how the Sixers offense has ranked during AI's tenure:

1997: 22nd
1998: 21st
1999: 10th
2000: 25th
2001: 7th
2002: 23rd
2003: 11th
2004: 26th
2005: 24th

It doesn't much surprise me that an O'Brien team lags on the offensive end. That's the primary reason Ainge wanted him out of here. But that their shooting pct. defense should be below avg, is surprising to me, since OBie spends so much time and energy coaching that. But again, I attribute that failing to their personnel rather than to their strategy/approach.

Enforcer · May-2nd-2005, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noj

All the doubts about Miami's supporting cast aren't proving to be true, Haslem and Eddie Jones both played great against the Nets. With Mourning playing strong and Shaq now able to rest, look out East!

Way, way, way, way too early to proclaim that, Noj. New Jersey left those guys open for uncontested shots. As long as every team plays them that way, the role players on the Heat will excel and they won't be stopped. These guys are NBA players, they're good enough to make those shots. But bigger tests are ahead when the Heat will face stronger teams who challenge the Haslems and Joneses. Until that happens, nobody knows how the Heat will respond.

Enforcer · May-2nd-2005, 12:32 PM

Ben Wallace to be announced as NBA Defensive Player Of The Year.

Ben would have gotten my vote, that's for sure. Still, this comes as a bit of a surprise. It was just last week that everyone was whispering that Bowen or Camby would win it. No idea where these rumors come from, but it actually got to the point that Wallace was asked about it in a post-game interview, and he shrugged off the news that he wouldn't win it. Sounds like those premature reports were... premature.