There was an article in the NYT a while back that stated that the new arrivals in Chinatown were speaking a different dialect then the people who have been there for a while. It was creating all kinds of problems , business wise and socially.
There was an article in the NYT a while back that stated that the new arrivals in Chinatown were speaking a different dialect then the people who have been there for a while. It was creating all kinds of problems , business wise and socially.
Chinese dialects should be considered separate languages. There is the common dialect they use on television, etc., and this is sort of what they teach you in school. But it does not help you understand THEM. There is so much movement in that language, "laziness" as it were, that elements get inferred rather than spoken, which if you were native born, you would know. This happens in many languages, but Chinese is so difficult, at least to non-Chinese. I am not sure why the dialects become so much more stratified though. I have but an elementary understanding of the language. But I might venture to say it is because the language is already difficult to begin with, being a character language (non-phonetic). At least how it is written. Plus, there are separate vocabularies for different purposes: vocabulary for formal events, for funerals, for tea...and what is maddening is that so many of the words sound the same. The repetition of sound (homonyms) seems way more common.
Chinese dialects should be considered separate languages.
Yes. Mandarin is the national language, but a majority don't speak it at home. Cantonese and Mandarin are mutually incomprehensible, but the written language is common to all Chinese dialects. So, as a spoken language there's no such thing as "Chinese" but written there is. Films in China are subtitled in Chinese so they can be understood regardless of what dialect the watcher understands.
In response to Ran's comment, most recent Chinese immigrants to NY speak Fujianese while prior generations (and Hong Kong immigrants) spoke Cantonese or Toisan (which is, I believe a dialect of Cantonese, to further complicate matters).
Yes. Mandarin is the national language, but a majority don't speak it at home. Cantonese and Mandarin are mutually incomprehensible, but the written language is common to all Chinese dialects. So, as a spoken language there's no such thing as "Chinese" but written there is. Films in China are subtitled in Chinese so they can be understood regardless of what dialect the watcher understands.
I was even just thinking about the differences between the various various dialects in Mandarin alone. Cantonese is definitely not a dialect but a different language.
The minor convenience in the common written language is not much to hope for since it is one of the most difficult languages to be literate in. Most Chinese have but a basic understanding of their own written language.
I studied Chinese and it makes any of the above languages seem simple. 36 letters? Try thousands of characters that all look and sound alike.
I think often language has been used by the elite to separate out the classes. In the case of Chinese, writing was so difficult, no peasant could ever hope to attain literacy.
In Europe the upper classes learned Latin so they could exclude the lower classes.
The difficulty of language seems often to have the purpose NOT of communication, but of exclusion. Maybe I am hopelessly looking out for the common people, while still wanting the stimulation of the extraordinary.
Exactly.
As I understand it, it is a language with no alphabet to boot.
Japanese isn't much easier to learn, I am told.
On the flip side, English, specifically American English, is hard for Second Language Learners because of our use of colloquialisms, idioms and figurative language. In many cultures, such things do not exist in the native language. I once had an Asian kid who was terribly confused when I read from a story, "He was so angry he hit the roof". After class asked me if this person really jumped up and hit the roof. The many exceptions to the rule in grammar are perplexing as well.
Last edited by GoodSpeak; November-10th-2009 at 04:07 PM.
As I understand it, it is a language with no alphabet to boot.
Traditionally no phonetic alphabet, just the cumbersome pictographic one, but there's Pinyin Romanization, which is a phonetic representation, and therefore would be limited to a specific dialect.
As I understand it, it is a language with no alphabet to boot.
Japanese isn't much easier to learn, I am told.
On the flip side, English, specifically American English, is hard for Second Language Learners because of our use of colloquialisms, idioms and figurative language. In many cultures, such things do not exist in the native language. I once had an Asian kid who was terribly confused when I read from a story, "He was so angry he hit the roof". After class asked me if this person really jumped up and hit the roof. The many exceptions to the rule in grammar are perplexing as well.
Actually Japanese does have a phonetic alphabet of sorts. But it's only slightly easier, so I hear.
Linear Mode
