Mingus at Antibes - Dolphy vs. Ervin

Pete C · March-25th-2005, 10:12 AM

This is for Derek, who wants a poll on the two horns on Mingus at ANtibes.

Derek Taylor · March-25th-2005, 11:09 AM

Thanks Pete! Your poll-posting prowess puts mine to pasture.

Sergio Zamora · March-25th-2005, 12:09 PM

Hare-brained, Taylor. Hare-brained.

Surfer · March-25th-2005, 12:19 PM

I always thought of Antibes '60 as a congregation. Booker is like the preacher (very bluesy soulful style, almost speech-like phrasing), Dolphy who follows, would be the person who "becomes poessed by the holy spirit" and starts talking in tongues. Mingus of course would be the fat lady in a hat, fanning herself in the front row, saying "Hallelujah!" as punctuation marks every five seconds.

Pete C · March-25th-2005, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surfer

I always thought of Antibes '60 as a congregation. Booker is like the preacher (very bluesy soulful style, almost speech-like phrasing), Dolphy who follows, would be the person who "becomes poessed by the holy spirit" and starts talking in tongues. Mingus of course would be the fat lady in a hat, fanning herself in the front row, saying "Hallelujah!" as punctuation marks every five seconds.

I like that. And Dannie is the dapper deacon.

bluenoter · March-25th-2005, 12:46 PM

"Weren't no cutting contest at'all"? Right, and it was Santa Claus who brought me Hanukkah presents.

However, its being a cutting contest didn't preclude both horn players' working to enhance the music as a whole!

For everyone's info., the tune in question is "I'll Remember April." (Or was the whole album meant?)

Pete C · March-25th-2005, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluenoter

For everyone's info., the tune in question is "I'll Remember April." (Or was the whole album meant?)

Why are you assuming what Derek meant if he didn't specify?

Surfer · March-25th-2005, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete C

I like that. And Dannie is the dapper deacon.

I always thought that Dannie would be more like the usher. Seating everyone, going around with the basket, collecting dues. Standing in the back relatively unoticed. Curson might be a better dapper deacon.

Sergio Zamora · March-25th-2005, 01:39 PM

One thing I don't understand is the comments I've read about Powell not being up to game or not fitting in or stuff like that. I dunno about that. He takes some solos that leave me breathless.

Pete C · March-25th-2005, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sergio Zamora

One thing I don't understand is the comments I've read about Powell not being up to game or not fitting in or stuff like that. I dunno about that. He takes some solos that leave me breathless.

Does he have more than one solo?

bluenoter · March-25th-2005, 01:50 PM

March-25th-2005, 01:31 PM

#7

Pete C

No more Mr. Nice Dog

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluenoter

For everyone's info., the tune in question is "I'll Remember April." (Or was the whole album meant?)

Why are you assuming what Derek meant if he didn't specify?

That's the part of the album I've seen referred to as a cutting contest in the past, and it's the part of the album that most clearly seems like a cutting contest to me. But in the very next sentence, I stopped assuming and asked (you cur!).

chuckyd4 · March-25th-2005, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surfer

I always thought of Antibes '60 as a congregation. Booker is like the preacher (very bluesy soulful style, almost speech-like phrasing), Dolphy who follows, would be the person who "becomes poessed by the holy spirit" and starts talking in tongues. Mingus of course would be the fat lady in a hat, fanning herself in the front row, saying "Hallelujah!" as punctuation marks every five seconds.

That is awesome surfer. I couldn't have said it better. I voted for Dolphy by a hare's breadth (thanks for spelling that right, I finally figured out what the hell that phrase means), but I would also vote for the guy speaking in tongues being the highlight of the service.

This one's gonna go on now. Hallelujah!!!

bluenoter · March-25th-2005, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckyd4

I voted for Dolphy by a hare's breadth (thanks for spelling that right, I finally figured out what the hell that phrase means)

Forgive me, chucky--it was spelled right in the poll, but you didn't spell it right. It's hair's breadth (hyphenated or listed as one word in dictionaries).

Anyway, hallelujah and amen!

chuckyd4 · March-25th-2005, 02:12 PM

hehe... well I guess the important part for me was making sure it was spelled "breadth" as opposed to "breath".

No need to apologize, Rita... despite my ignorance on this particular thread, I am that person in my family - my mom loves me for it (cause she has to), but most people just roll their eyes. So I understand.

I am the crossword master in my family, though I understand there's quite a few here who put me to shame.

Surfer · March-25th-2005, 02:15 PM

Never really included Powell in my reverie, but if I had to, I'd have to say that he would be the elderly lady who has to be helped up to the podium for the reading.

Old Lady Voice: "And now a reading from Paul to the Corinthians . . . . . . ."

As everybody starts to fall asleep . . . . . . . .

I'm just kidding but it does sound like ol' Bud is on his last legs.

Derek Taylor · March-25th-2005, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surfer

Curson might be a better dapper deacon.

Maybe, but then you don’t get the cool alliterative allure of Pete’s assertion & there are spots where Richmond really rolls up his sleeves.

I was actually thinking about the whole rekkid, but that “I’ll Remember April” definitely has its share of good-natured fisticuffs. Powell sounds pretty good to me too & its great to have him at the pew, but he still comes off as a fraction of his former prime IMO.

Bluenoter, are you a proofreader by trade or just by hobby?

bluenoter · March-25th-2005, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Taylor

Bluenoter, are you a proofreader by trade or just by hobby?

I was a proofreader (and copy editor) by trade for many years. I remain silent a lot more often than one might think! And because these days I don't bother to proofread my own PMs and such, I'm often aghast to notice typos in them after the fact.

Thanks for clarifying re "I'll Remember April" vs. the whole album.

Sergio Zamora · March-25th-2005, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete C

Does he have more than one solo?

"I'll Remember April" is the memorable one (no pun intended), but doesn't he have at least one more?

bluenoter · March-25th-2005, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sergio Zamora

"I'll Remember April" is the memorable one (no pun intended), but doesn't he have at least one more?

Nope; that's the only tune he appears on.

Pete C · March-25th-2005, 02:49 PM

Powell is sloppy on that date, yet some of his finest late playing happened in 1961 & '62 -- A Portrait of Thelonious and Live in Lausanne rank with his prime playing.

Darryl G. Thomas · March-25th-2005, 04:20 PM

Man, Surfer nailed it. I've often referred to Dolphy's performance as "speaking in tongues" whil Booker was the downhome preacher I used to see in old, wooden churches near my grandparents' house in Georgia.

I gave Dolhy the "win" by a hair mainly because his performance stood out more. But Booker was important because of the contrast he offered.

Surfer · March-25th-2005, 04:34 PM

"I gave Dolhy the "win" by a hair mainly because his performance stood out more. But Booker was important because of the contrast he offered."

Ditto. But that is just my personal preference for Dolphy. They are all essential players in the drama of the album.

PS The idea of Mingus in drag really cracks me up. LOL.

March-26th-2005, 01:37 AM

Eric's solo on Wednesday Night Prayer Meeting may be the greatest and most exciting solo ever recorded!

Ron Thorne · March-26th-2005, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surfer

I always thought of Antibes '60 as a congregation. Booker is like the preacher (very bluesy soulful style, almost speech-like phrasing), Dolphy who follows, would be the person who "becomes poessed by the holy spirit" and starts talking in tongues. Mingus of course would be the fat lady in a hat, fanning herself in the front row, saying "Hallelujah!" as punctuation marks every five seconds.

At the risk of seeming like a Johnny-come-lately or brown-noser, please allow me to chime in with approval and smiles on your characterization, Surfer.

I haven't listened to this session in some time, so this thread provided a wonderful reason to dust it off.

First of all, much of Mingus' work takes me to church, so the above metaphors (and others) seem both appropriate and natural.

I'll be back with a vote and some comments in about 71:41.

Ron Thorne · March-26th-2005, 05:05 AM

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't hear or perceive a "cutting contest" on this recording, although I'm hip to the existence of such things.

Dolphy got away clean on tenor saxphone on Wednesday Night Prayer Meeting, but even cleaner on bass clarinet on What Love?, in my opinion. And, he and Charles had some memorable, humorous and clever exchanges on this changeup of a standard.

On I'll Remember April, Dolphy and Ervin trade 4's, 2's and 1's, but it hardly seems competitive, at least not to my ears. Then, everyone else drops out, allowing them to play alone/together to the delight of the Antibes audience. Ultimately, they were the winners, as are we all these many years later. I felt that the ending was incredibly awkward, and the weakest part of this piece, by far. Bud seemed lost and Dannie ended it.

What a classic recording! Thanks for bringing it to our attention again, Pete. It's far too easy to allow amazing material such as this to languish when you have too much "stuff", unfortunately.