Alley and Politics "Board" Meeting Convenes

[Lois Gilbert]

This is going to be brief, because I am in a running mode right now on the other side of JC...

I am not closing the Alley or the Politics forums. I appreciate everyone who contributed to the thread which I am closing (you can still peruse but you can't post) Hopefully later tonight or over the weekend or early next week, I will try to lay out some "rules of decorum." I'm not planning to go to the extreme that Kevin (I think) laid out about another bbs. I'm surprised that you don't have to wear a uniform to enter the forum.

I do want to make some amendments to the Alley - maybe moving some of the threads to an archive and starting the Alley 2005 - maybe a little spring cleaning.

I really like you gents and ladies - it so special to have this place. But I get frustrated when I get 45 emails in one day and hear from people that never complained about the degeneration of particular threads. I realize I apologized to a couple of people individually, but never did publicly on the thread in referring to the vermin and the rats. I truly was not thinking of anyone in those terms. I was picturing garbage in an alley and what is contained therein.

I don't visit the Alley a lot, I don't feel that the forums need a moderator (that has always reeked of big brotherism to me), but I do believe that all of US (me included see paragraph above) need to be our own moderater. To not just blurt out or attack or if you do, go back and edit. Read, listen, maybe reread again and then post.

I don't believe that there is anyone here that is a racist or a misogynist. They wouldn't last here long if they were... BUT words carry weight - more so on a bbs than in person sometimes because we can't see someone's eyes or wink or smile or hear sarcasm or sadness or laughter. We also don't always know if someone is joking, and if it is a joke - how others perceive it. This is a diverse group of people, and what one deems as funny and silly, another may think - not funny, not fun. So often we make assumptions, and then defend someone else with words like "lighten up." We may think we know each others' intent but that is our own personal perception. And intent is often like assumption.

That is why I ask people not to speak for me or feel a need to defend me, or make comments like this is Lois' board and make the analogy as if it's my home and you are my guests. I don't feel that way --- yes ultimately it's my decision whether to continue or not or to ban or to delete. but you are the folks that really make the engine run.

Given what I just wrote, I would like 10 volunteers to sit on a board with me, and convene for a live chat maybe once a month (more times if we feel necessary) to discuss how we can improve, how we can become less insular (something I hear a lot), what features are possible to institute, and also the rules of decorum, and so on.

Please pm me your response and anyone is free to apply. I will not show any bias. This offer will be open till April 8...


Peace and blessings and thank you all. Now those gerbils, and movies and wining threads await.

[Monte Smith]

[Gentle Giant]

Thank you.

[Ron Thorne]

Sounds entirely reasonable to me, Lois.

This is a wonderful site, and I hope it only improves and matures with age, as it should.

Respectfully,

Ron

[BFrank]

I think there was a good "airing" of feelings all the way around.

[sonic1]

You Rock Lois!

I couldn't expect a better reaction/choice.

Originally Posted by BFrank

I think there was a good "airing" of feelings all the way around.

I agree with this 100%.

Well said, Brother Beefy!

[BFrank]

THANKS, Mr. D!

[Jazzooo]

Sounds good, Lois. Thanks.

[chuckyd4]

Sounds great Lois. Think this sounds eminently reasonable, and it looks like that other thread was pretty productive.

Hopefully it will help to attract new members, though we should always CHEck around and be on the look out for trolls, especially as we try to find some modicum of civility again.

[Richardo Caerleoni]

LOIS...COOL!

Best Wishes...Richard/Anna

[burning dog]

Originally Posted by Richardo Caerleoni

LOIS...COOL!

Best Wishes...Richard/Anna

Tony Williams on Freedom Jazz Dance

!WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!!!!

[Richardo Caerleoni]

Burning Dog..."Tony Williams on Freedom Jazz Dance -!WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!!!!"

Our Desert Island Disc!...along with about 500 others!

Best - R&A.

[burning dog]

Originally Posted by Richardo Caerleoni

Burning Dog..."Tony Williams on Freedom Jazz Dance -!WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!!!!"

Our Desert Island Disc!...along with about 500 others!

Best - R&A.

I know it's off toipic but I'm always amazed how well the band play when Miles is playing.
Miles is such an unselfish player whatever he was like off the bandstand.

Wayne is wonderful and full of (more?) ideas but it sounds, subjectively, more like soloist and backing players than a band of equals when he is playing.

[patricia]

Good plan Lois. Consideration for fellow posters should always be paramount.
It would have been a shame if the two forums, particularly the Alley, would have been yanked.
It is in the Alley where the full spectrum of who we all are comes out.
There are few places in which such a variety of ideas and conversations between friends, as we are, is possible and the Alley is one of them.
We are all intelligent adults and as such should be capable of restraint, without becoming bland and boring. Lively debate and exchange of views need not become ugly. Unlike ordinary conversation between friends, in person, we have to remember that the expression on our faces and our body language are invisible here. Only our words express our thoughts. So, we must remember that everyone who comes to the Alley is not automatically familiar with the dynamics already in place, and the established personalities of the posters themselves. Much as we welcome new friends to our "real" lives, gradually discovering their personalities, so it is here.
We are capable of self-restraint. Occasional lapses are inevitable, but they should be few and far between.
Lively banter. That is my lifeblood and the lifeblood of a true community. That is what is possible here.
Thank you Lois for giving us another chance.
Good call.

[Captain Hate]

Originally Posted by Lois Gilbert

I get 45 emails in one day and hear from people that never complained about the degeneration of particular threads.

I'd ban all 45 of 'em.

[patricia]

I wouldn't go that far, Cap'n. There is the option of notifying the moderator or the webmaster on most sites, just as in our real lives the option of calling the police or suing is always there. Most people don't choose those options before attempting to reason with the offending person.
Fellow posters have a powerful retaliatory option and that is to gently chastize, or even ignore the offending comment, allowing it to sink into the abyss.
I know that my first instinct is to respond to a comment directed at me, sometimes to my detriment. It's a natural response to want to defend ourselves from attack. Unfortunately, some of the most hurtful exchanges have resulted from that tactic. I think that just leaving the comment sit may, in most cases have been the more sensible approach. However, we are all human.
Even so, banning, except in the most egregious cases, among intelligent people, as we all like to think of ourselves shouldn't be necessary. As my late parents used to counsel, "Ignore it. If you react, it only encourages them". Still true, I think.
We, as a group, should be capable of handling conflict, much as we do in our real lives, without suing or calling the constabulary. If we want to sit at the grown-ups' table, we have to remember how to use the silverware and avoid food-fights.

Originally Posted by Captain Hate

I'd ban all 45 of 'em.

Hahahahaha.............

I second this suggestion!

Originally Posted by ChuckyD

though we should always CHEck around and be on the look out for trolls

Yeah, I've been kinda wondering about this CHE fellow as well.

Doesn't necessarily exhibit troll behaviors, but is certainly off to an incredibly odd start here.

[Captain Hate]

Patricia, what you said makes sense (and, believe me, I've called the cops on some of my asshole neighbors when their stupid parties have woken me up in the middle of the night; because of the mood I'm in, fists will fly and the numbers aren't on my side) and I can't tell you the number of "Please STFU" posts I've had all ready to let fly, and then counted to ten and deleted. But don't you think 45 is a huge number? I was very surprised by it and not pleasantly.

[patricia]

I too was astounded at the 45 figure. I wonder if some of them were lurkers. It always interests me how many "view" a thread and apparently never post. In my experience here, most of us are not shy about directly commenting to an offending poster, either on the board, or by PM. I know that I have been cyber-smacked, from time to time, when I've supported a controversial position on a topic under discussion. No blood was shed on the cobblestones, but I was putting my opinion on the line. When we do that, there will be comments from those who disagree. That's the nature of any discussion. Nothing wrong with that. The PM and direct comment route, IMO, are our first options, not going directly to the webmistress.
We're adults here and should temper our outrage, or annoyance with common sense, it seems to me. But, that's just me.

[Monte Smith]

Originally Posted by Scott Dolan

Hahahahaha.............

I second this suggestion!

I third it. That's the quickest way to end all your headaches, Lois. Cut the whiners loose.

[graypencil]

Excellent plan, Lois!

[tippy]

While I've never felt the need, as a vocal jc participant, to make a separate complaint to the board's administrator, I don't think when people are acting aggressively they should necessarily assume that someone would respect them enough or desire to address them directly. And it's definitely absurd to think that direct communication would achieve the "whiner's" desired result. Consider this: has direct communication between equals with regard to problem behavior been successful in the past? If I really felt strongly that a post or poster should be removed from the board, then I'd go to the big cheese rather than waste my time with an instigator who probably would just argue endlessly with me over my complaint. It is, again, a matter of personal taste. What might not offend me turns out to offend someone else; and in another turn, what might seem inoffensive to the same someone else can be something beyond my own tolerance. Sure being directly addressed gives *you* all the control in the situation (scary, huh, to think of people talking behind your back) but don't assume that people would want to offer you that kind of control. The board belongs, as Lois suggested above, to everyone reading it. It doesn't necessarily belong *more* to, for example, me just cuz I'm willing to open my damn fool mouth.

That said, Lois, I dig your post and the resolution to this episode.

[cookie]

Thank you, Lois.

[bluenoter]

What Tippy said in #24!

Thanks, Lois.

[Dr Dave]

Hey, nice post, Lois!

To the rest of my fellow members of the rabble: I hope once is enough for this sort of thing. I'm not advocating peace--that's no fun--but it seems to me we ought to be able to hold a house party without breaking the furniture and peeing on the carpet, if you receive my meaning.

On the e-mailing Lois phenomenon: I had no idea this was going on. No wonder Lois got fed up!

[Richardo Caerleoni]

Originally Posted by Dr Dave

Hey, nice post, Lois!

To the rest of my fellow members of the rabble: I hope once is enough for this sort of thing. I'm not advocating peace--that's no fun--but it seems to me we ought to be able to hold a house party without breaking the furniture and peeing on the carpet, if you receive my meaning.
On the e-mailing Lois phenomenon: I had no idea this was going on. No wonder Lois got fed up!

emphasis added - RC.



Dave ...No trouble from us...but the email "thing" is seriously weird.

Best - R&A.

[bruce massey]

It sure seems to me that the frustration begins and is amplified by the complaints.

I have stated that I have a thick hide AND that I can understand others who are not so vulgarly endowed. However, 45 complaints is a ridiculous number. As I read the threads I see lively repartee. Unfortunately we live in a time where all too many individuals think that it is their God given right to never feel discomfort. When intellectually challenged they would rather attempt to censor someone than match wits.

This is PC horseshit and I fucking hate it!

There have always been a collection of keen wits in the sites I have frequented and it is one of the things that makes me want to participate.

In America, you have the right to PURSUE happiness. That happiness isn't guaranteed. Humor works because it requires discomfort. You are faced with a possible chink in your armor and would rather not admit to it.

Debate is battle and your point of view will undoubtedly recieve support and be attacked.

At the end of the day you will turn your computer off and go to wherever your slumber takes you.

You aren't hurt.

You arent' injured.

You aren't maimed.

You are alive and well.

You spent time in cyberspace with a community of people drawn together by their love of a particular art form. Amazingly, participation in said community has shown you that one instance of communality does not lead to campfires, smores and Khumba Ya.

If the banter is so offensive that you feel the need to run to the camp counselor, please call your parents and have them come take you home!

Lois-I think you made a fine decision. I also think you are allowing the complaining to wear you down. While you must intercede at times you also need to tell a few individuals to quit whining and grow the fuck up!


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[bluenoter]

Condemnations of "PC" are all too predictably issued by straight white males; condemnations of "tattletales" are all too predictably issued by bullies.

Originally Posted by patricia

I too was astounded at the 45 figure.

I think all of us were. To fault that groundswell of complainers, instead of assuming that at least some of them had good reason to complain, is ludicrous.