Know Why They Call Them Criminals?

[RainyDay]

Because they are fucking stupid losers. We have had a crime wave on our street since neighbors moved FOUR days ago. They ran an in-home day care and watched out for everyone and in four days, one car stolen, one house broken into. That's just the latest. Most of the people who do this shit (sorry for the profanity, if it offends you, kiss off to another thread but I'm mad enough to hurt someone right now) are losers who live off of their mothers and grandmothers and pick up pocket change ripping off working people. My neighbors who were robbed are wonderful hard working people from SE Asia who have worked hard to have a nice little home and send their kids to college. The bastards who broke in probably didn't finish the 6th grade.

I've been threatening to take my car downtown to the garage, sneak back home, and sit in my house for as long as it takes with the shotgun across my lap and wait for one of these fuckers to come crashing throught the door so I can pop the son of a bitch. Target practice with your drop-out-high-too-stupid-to-live-or-even-breathe-the-same-air-as-the-rest-of-us.

Since living here, I have lost all sympathy for criminals and their pathetic need to be rehabbed. Rehab this, you pot/crack/heroin smoking junkie loser mama's boy who lives off your mama/wife/girlfriend/grandma. We've had day laborers robbed by this scum, we've had so many burglaries and near break-ins over the past two years, I've lost count. My next door neighbor went to prison for raping a 14-year old neighbor girl. I keep hoping to hear that they took his sorry behind out of this world in the joint.

If Lois erases this thread I really don't care. I hate all the progressives in this town who just want to coddle and understand these poor unfortunate jerks. Who want to spend my tax dollars on BS programs that don't work. We have a zillion job training programs, but guess what, no jobs! Jokes on us. Doesn't anybody understand that there is a segment of the population that loves being parasitic? Do you know that Oakland has a police department of approximately 700 for 400,000 people? And all the progressives don't want to spend more money on cops because they're afraid young men of color will have more opportunities to have bad experiences with cops. So the bottom line is that people of all colors who live in flatland neighborhoods are overrun with crime because the folks in the hills are congratulating themselves for protecting us from having too many cops.

There, that about covers it and everybody. Surprisingly, I actually don't feel one DAMN bit better.

And no advice, please. I've forgotten more about community organizing than most of you know. Really. Tomorrow I will be on the farking phone with OPD all morning trying to fix this mess.

Holy shit!!!!

Rainy, I had you all wrong.

I think your post is absolutely brilliant!! And no, I'm not kidding you. Really!

I think it's high time folks started standing up for their own neighborhoods. Fuck all these budget cuts for the police depot!!!

Damn, you really ARE a conservative, just like Jared said.

[sonic1]

What exactly is a progressive? Man I have it when someone tells me they are a progressive. What the fuck does that mean?

Liberal and conservative make more sense than progressive.

Anyway Rainy, I hear ya. I used to live next to an assisted living place where most of the people who lived there had very expensive cars (large neww SUVs a BMW etc), beat the hell out of their wives/girlfriends/mothers, sold drugs of course, and on top of that I paid their rent with my tax dollars. I am all for letting tax dollars help people who need help, but that is often not what happens.

[jesus marion joseph]

Re: the shotgun thing. The irony here is that if you actually carry out that threat, it would probably be *you* who would go to prison. My old boss tried a case similar to that. The defendant is doing life in prison now because he waited on his porch with a shotgun for a guy who was cruising past his house hurling epithets at his girlfriend for hours, then actually came up the steps to talk to the girlfriend, or whatever he was thinking of doing. He received an aeration of his midriff for his troubles.

[claude]

Originally Posted by jesus marion joseph

He received an aeration of his midriff for his troubles.

Don't you just love lawyer talk.

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by RainyDay

Because they are fucking stupid losers.

I think the term for fucking stupid losers is "fucking stupid losers." Criminals are called criminals because they commit crimes.

[Enforcer]

Now this is the kind of post I can sink my teeth into. Rage on, Rainy!

[groover]

Originally Posted by RainyDay

We have a zillion job training programs, but guess what, no jobs! Jokes on us. Doesn't anybody understand that there is a segment of the population that loves being parasitic?

This seems like a two-fold problem. One, there are no jobs for those coming out of the training programs. Second, the trainees have a bad attitude and don't really want to work anyway. Laying for them and shooting them solves both problems, I guess, but doesn't seem like a solution that can be applied with a guarantee of fairness.

I would relocate before I took the law into my own hands, but you may not have that option. Try to warn them before you shoot, and don't shoot 'em in the back. It's awfully hard to argue self-defense that way. However, if you're angry enough, I guess it doesn't matter.

[Noj]

Is there anything lower than a thief?

Scumbags who steal shouldn't be let off the hook by shifting the blame to the substance that scumbag is addicted to. It ain't heroin or crack's fault someone chooses to be a "fucking stupid loser." It definitely has nothing whatsoever to do with pot.

When some asshole gets in a car wreck for driving drunk, is it the fault of alcohol? They sure don't arrest the bottle.

This is an important concept, and has to do with taking responsibility for one's actions.

[Steve Reynolds]

Rainy-

I know you will ignore this - but do you have any idea about the disease of addiction?

Do you know how many people have been helped by rehabs and subsequent after care life programs?

Do you know how many of these "stupid fucking losers" have taken responsibilties for their damages and have actually given back WAY more than the damage they caused?

I thought you were some sort of liberal.

the ignorance on this thread is overwhelming




peace and blessings

[tristano's ghost]

Huh, SD... kinda funny that it was Clinton who got 100,000 more cops on the street with that 1994 federal bill, and that it was Bush/the GOP/Republican Congress that let said funding expire this past year. Whoops.

I don't blame you for being fed up, RD. I lived in a crime-ridden neighborhood for several years... whatever the causes, it's a screwed-up drag to have to deal with it all the time.

[Noj]

"Taking responsibility" is exactly my point, Steve. Even someone suffering the "disease of addiction" must take responsibility.

[groover]

Originally Posted by tristano's ghost

Huh, SD... kinda funny that it was Clinton who got 100,000 more cops on the street with that 1994 federal bill, and that it was Bush/the GOP/Republican Congress that let said funding expire this past year. Whoops.

The Republican solution: easy access to assault rifles!

[Steve Reynolds]

they can only take responsibilty if they get help - in active addiction, no addict will take responsibility for anything - so without rehabs and aftercare programs (and the ones ai am talking about are not funded by government or anyone else - they are self-sufficient, self-funded prgrams), things will only get worse.

so yes - it is up to the individual to get this help - but unless any of you have been there, you really don't know to much about what being in the grips of addiction is all about.

[cookie]

Originally Posted by Steve Reynolds

Rainy-

I know you will ignore this - but do you have any idea about the disease of addiction?

Do you know how many people have been helped by rehabs and subsequent after care life programs?

Do you know how many of these "stupid fucking losers" have taken responsibilties for their damages and have actually given back WAY more than the damage they caused?

I thought you were some sort of liberal.

the ignorance on this thread is overwhelming




peace and blessings

Please. Addicts don't necessarily steal and destroy and if they do, they should suffer the consequences. Sometimes that's the only thing that can keep an addict straight. I certainly view the State of New York as my "higher power."

Addiction may be a "reason" but it isn't an "excuse" IMO

Originally Posted by TG

Huh, SD... kinda funny that it was Clinton who got 100,000 more cops on the street with that 1994 federal bill, and that it was Bush/the GOP/Republican Congress that let said funding expire this past year. Whoops.

Oh yeah, I'm sure 100,000 cops did a WHOLE lot on the local level. How many cities are in this country do ya think? And the local level is where spending needs to change.

Besides, grow up, where did I say anything about Bush or the Republicans?

I said conservative. I don't consider Bush to be a conservative. Conservatives believe in taking care of that kind of shit themselves. At least all the ones I know.

[RainyDay]

Originally Posted by Steve Reynolds

they can only take responsibilty if they get help - in active addiction, no addict will take responsibility for anything - so without rehabs and aftercare programs (and the ones ai am talking about are not funded by government or anyone else - they are self-sufficient, self-funded prgrams), things will only get worse.

so yes - it is up to the individual to get this help - but unless any of you have been there, you really don't know to much about what being in the grips of addiction is all about.

My guess is that you live in a nice neighborhood with green lawns and folks who take lovely vacations. I bet you don't have drug dealers standing on your corner, and thugs kicking in the doors of your neighbors. You probably don't have out of control teenagers with irresponsible parents who don't give a shit about whether their kids go to school or not. Did you know that there is not ONE single PTA in the Oakland flatlands? You are just like the privileged folks in the hills who tsk tsk and say that we have to love the criminal to hellp him/her because the criminals don't live anywhere near them and they can afford to be generous. I know plenty about substance abuse. I know professionals who lost everything they had, in the case of one formerly successful lawyer, homeless and shot down like a dog on the street, because of drugs. It's sad but it's on you to fix it and I'm not going to live in a toilet because of your personal problems. I tell my middle class friends that if they are using drugs, they are partly responsible for the blood running in the streets in the contnuing drug wars. You can't have it both ways. H. Rap said if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Sorry, I ran out of tea and sympathy.

Most of my neighbors don't take fancy vacations anywhere. They don't have money to build big CD collections and go to Yoshi's. They are working class people who are just trying to make a life. They save money for years to make a big family trip back to Mexico or Asia. They own their own homes. They are working toward that American dream. Man, don't lecture me about poor parasites and their personal problems. When I look at young people in Oakland who came from horrible, awful family backgrounds and who broke their backs to finish school with honors and go on to college, I just have a hard time crying over the ones who don't want to learn and who are proud of being ignorant.

As for taking the law in my own hands: The law in this state lets you protect yourself in your own home. If someone breaks into my house while I'm in it, they are straight up a dead man/woman. The law doesn not require me to be a victim in my house. Last month, a man shot a kid in his front yard. Long story but the short end of it is that the shooter wasn't charged with a weapons violation because he was on his own property. The kid and his mama are screaching about suing the shooter but the bottom line is that this kid and his pals went on this man's property to mess with him and the kid got shot and all over the flatlands a big "hooray!!" was heard across the land. Folks in the hills are shocked! Shocked! Them and the thugs in the 'hood. The cops were so incensed that the DA even considered charging this man, they offered up their defense lawyers who represent cops in police abuse cases for free.

And Pete, criminals are fucking losers. I see them everyday day. Oakland school's are a travesty. They are horrible places to try to learn anything. Yet kids from all over the world and all over Oakland graduate every year and make something of themselves. I'm tired of catering to the lowest uncommon denominator because of people who don't live with this insanity and think they have all the answers. I am very liberal on most things but I am not when it comes to crime. I don't support the death penalty for anyone ever, but I have no problem with locking up some asshole who spends his day laying around smoking weed and plotting his next neighborhood adventure while his stupid parents are just glad to have the kids at home. Lock 'em up and lock up their useless parents. Screw the lot of them.

Amazed to be still be so furious the next day.

[Steve Reynolds]

I never said or even implied that addicts shouldn't suffer the consequences. I never said or implied that it was an excuse.

If people under the influence of drugs are arrested and convicted of crimes, they should pay the penalty prescribed by the laws of the land. If what I wrote implied something else, I apologize for my insensitivity to law abiding citizens.

And no, all addicts don't necassarily steal, but most do destroy and disrupt their own lives and those lives of people they know and don't know. They are responsible for that destruction and many have paid their dues and become productive giving members of society.

I took offense with the "stupid fucking loser" description - especially since it was written by someone who has comes across as a very self-righteous person.

[Steve Reynolds]

nice that you know about the neighborhood that I live in.

no fancy vacationing neighbors to the left or to the right of me.

[RainyDay]

Originally Posted by Scott Dolan

Oh yeah, I'm sure 100,000 cops did a WHOLE lot on the local level. How many cities are in this country do ya think? And the local level is where spending needs to change.

Besides, grow up, where did I say anything about Bush or the Republicans?

I said conservative. I don't consider Bush to be a conservative. Conservatives believe in taking care of that kind of shit themselves. At least all the ones I know.

Those cops made a big difference in Oakland. We have a major cop shortage as a result of the loss of those funds, even after our elected officials pulled a bait and switch on a tax measure last fall for more cops that won't net more cops.

[Noj]

I don't see weed as part of the problem. If someone smokes a joint then performs a home invasion robbery, are we to blame the spleef? That's poor logic.

If someone smokes dope and lays around all day doing nothing, it is because that person is a lazy, unmotivated nincompoop. It isn't because of marijuana.

[RainyDay]

Originally Posted by Noj

I don't see weed as part of the problem. If someone smokes a joint then performs a home invasion robbery, are we to blame the spleef? That's poor logic.

If someone smokes dope and lays around all day doing nothing, it is because that person is a lazy, unmotivated nincompoop. It isn't because of marijuana.

I guess I never met a productive pot head.

[groover]

I'm with Noj. Don't demonize marijuana because you live in a high-crime area. Heroin, maybe, but not pot, please. Marijuana is not so physically addicting as to drive someone to commit crimes they wouldn't otherwise. Lame excuse on a defendant's part, and defective logic on the part of an accuser.

[Noj]

You're currently addressing one.

[clinthopson]

Rainy,

You are pretty correct in your assumptions. The people who are infesting your neighborhood are criminal scum. The only way you and your good neighbors are going to get anything done is to organize yourselves and form a community watch. Call the cops every time you see a criminal act or a gathering of yound hoodlums. The cops will get pretty tired of a multitude of calls and will eventually start coming down on the hoods. If they repeated calls from just one person, they'll ignore them, but if it comes from a whole lot of people in the neighborhood, they'll pay attention.

This sounds a bit Pollyannaish but it worked here in Santa Ana. The neighborhoods organized and worked with the police, who cooperated fully. They have reduced gang and street crime enormously in a town that, by its nature, could be a hotbed of crime.

Of course changing our drug laws would help a great deal. Legalize them and control and tax them. This would remove a huge source of revenue from the criminals.

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by RainyDay

I guess I never met a productive pot head.

You probably have and didn't know it.

[groover]

Originally Posted by RainyDay

I guess I never met a productive pot head.

Limited life experience is certainly a valid reason to remain prejudiced.
Stay as you are!

Originally Posted by RainyDay

Those cops made a big difference in Oakland. We have a major cop shortage as a result of the loss of those funds, even after our elected officials pulled a bait and switch on a tax measure last fall for more cops that won't net more cops.

Which is exactly why I said spending policies need to change on the local level.

[RainyDay]

Originally Posted by clinthopson

Rainy,

You are pretty correct in your assumptions. The people who are infesting your neighborhood are criminal scum. The only way you and your good neighbors are going to get anything done is to organize yourselves and form a community watch. Call the cops every time you see a criminal act or a gathering of yound hoodlums. The cops will get pretty tired of a multitude of calls and will eventually start coming down on the hoods. If they repeated calls from just one person, they'll ignore them, but if it comes from a whole lot of people in the neighborhood, they'll pay attention.

This sounds a bit Pollyannaish but it worked here in Santa Ana. The neighborhoods organized and worked with the police, who cooperated fully. They have reduced gang and street crime enormously in a town that, by its nature, could be a hotbed of crime.

Of course changing our drug laws would help a great deal. Legalize them and control and tax them. This would remove a huge source of revenue from the criminals.

Clint: I organized a Home Alert 15 years ago. The problem is that we don't have enough cops in Oakland. If you call the non-emergency number to report something, you could wait up to 26 minutes (which is the longest I waited before hanging up). No cops, no dispatchers. Oakland has a lot of crime but elected officials don't want to spend more on additional cops and for some reason, neither do the residents. The measure that passed last fall is funding the fire department and unnamed social service programs that many of us assume are payoffs to political supporters of the Council. The measure was supposed to add more cops but right now, Oakland is well below its budgeted level for sworn personnel. I and others tried to tell people that this measure was intended to balance the city's budget and throw money at social programs that had no real thought as to how they would actually work with existing services and the police department.

So my neighbors got their back door kicked in and a mess made of their home and it took hours for a police technician (not even a real cop) to show up and take a report.

[RainyDay]

Originally Posted by groover

I'm with Noj. Don't demonize marijuana because you live in a high-crime area. Heroin, maybe, but not pot, please. Marijuana is not so physically addicting as to drive someone to commit crimes they wouldn't otherwise. Lame excuse on a defendant's part, and defective logic on the part of an accuser.

Excuse me, but during the summer months the kids on this block smoke reefer and vandalize property and break into people's homes. I'm glad you don't. We had a raging debate on the police list serve last month about this. I get just as tired of people demonizing weed to be more than it is as I am with people who would have us believe that weed is harmless. And if you are buying drugs of any sort, you are fueling the street drug traffic. You may buy them from your buddies but ultimately, somebody went to Compton, or East Oakland, or wherever to get them. And the blood is on your hands. I hold drug users responsible for the drug wars and all the senseless killing. Yes, people get killed over marijuana because there is big money in dealing the stuff.