Research question

[jazzman965]

Who are the most influentual black american jazz musicians?

[lazy]

Wynton Marsalis!

[jazzman965]

thanx for ur reply

[lazy]

Originally Posted by jazzman965

thanx for ur reply

Wait my friend. Before the more experienced board members will slaughter me ...

Wynton is a good musician but there are many more that were more important to jazz history. Your question is not clear. Please elaborate more on the context.

More names to begin with:

Charlie Parker
Duke Ellington
Thelonious Monk
Louis Armstrong
John Coltrane
Miles Davis
Charles Mingus

[crawjo]

So many, my list would second many already mentioned:

Louis Armstrong
Duke Ellington
Fletcher Henderson
Count Basie
Coleman Hawkins
Lester Young
Dizzy Gillespie
Charlie Parker
Bud Powell
Thelonious Monk
Charles Mingus
Miles Davis
John Coltrane
Ornette Coleman
Albert Ayler
Cecil Taylor
Sun Ra

[burning dog]

Originally Posted by lazy

Wait my friend. Before the more experienced board members will slaughter me ...

Wynton is a good musician but there are many more that were more important to jazz history. Your question is not clear. Please elaborate more on the context.

More names to begin with:

Charlie Parker
Duke Ellington
Thelonious Monk
Louis Armstrong
John Coltrane
Miles Davis
Charles Mingus

Good list plus Ornette Coleman

[Sand]

Thanks!

This is just like watching pure, scientific research as it evolves, and it all takes place with no public funding.













.

[Rob Damen]

Originally Posted by lazy

Wynton Marsalis!

Actually,

This would be acurate!

Cheers,

Rob

[Gary Sisco]

That's a research question?

Here's another one: Who are the great white novelists?

[burning dog]

[QUOTE=Sand]Thanks!

This is just like watching pure, scientific research as it evolves, and it all takes place with no public funding.[QUOTE]


haha

[HenryMc]

Man you start with Buddy Bolden
someone from the real olden
days before they laid on wax
the sound of those jazz attacks
Then coming up from the Delta
from that sub tropical swelter
came Louis "Satchmo" Armstrong
man that cat could play a jazzy song

Even Harlem started swinging
with Benny Carter's ringing
sax a playing sweet and dandy
with the Chocolate Dandies
and playing lots of fancy licks
with McKinley's Cotton Pick(er)s

And who bought to jazz composin'
ensuring it wasn't frozen
in chicago and nawlins
with its blues hollers and a callins
twas the Duke and his ork
who made swinging work

You can't talk Jazz without
getting out and about
like in Kansas City
where Moten played it pretty
and Basie learned it well
in Prendergast's heavenish hell

Lester Young was the President
with his head so slightly bent
ensuring that his sound
influenced nearly all around
playing in a way
you sometimes hear still today

And swinging in New York City
with a sound all a skitty
Chick Webb played at Roseland
with Ella singing in his band
with the saxmen cuttin'
and the band just struttin'

In '39 there came a tune
that made the muso's swoon
Coleman Hawkins playing solo
from somewhere over near Soho
Man he started on a roll
when he recorded Body and Soul

meanwhile a revolution
was coming with confusion
as a war started in the world
be bop suddenly occurred
and if you've never heard
it was the coming of the Bird

Now when Charlie Parker blew
man the notes just flew and flew
and with Dizzy in the band
to lend his even hand
Jazz would never be the same
I guess that was his aim

Meanwhile some were singing
and like Ella still swinging
or like Billie Holiday
just singing it their way
whether drinkin'or on the toot
nothing topped her on "Strange Fruit"

In a line from Charlie Parker
the times they got a lot darker
as his disciples hit the spike
and found what the H was like
some lost themselves for ever
but other made it through endeavour

Little Miles Davis was the man
who played Jazz throughout the land
and man of sound and vision
with bands of great precision
keeping Jazz aflame
when Rock was the Major Game

Then there are artists at the easel
like that Taylor Cecil
and the wonderous Roland Kirk
who could make lots of instruments work
and we can't forget the impressions
made by Ornette Coleman's sessions

Never forget the 'Trane
his sound was just insane
for the time, his sheets of sound
blew all the mind's around
and with Elvin McCoy and Jimmy in the team
he made " A :Love Supreme"

Jazz has been swinging
and its wonderful sound been ringing
in people's ears
for over a 100 years
and each guy who bashed a kit
plucked a string or blew was a part of it!

[Squaredancecalling Steve]

You're a joy, Henry!

[bostontricky]

Damn, Henry. Is that an original?

Here's the lyrics to Gang Starr's "Jazz Thing", featured in Spike Lee's "Mo' Better Blues". I think they mention Wynton on the 12" EP.

- - - - -

'I would like to play a.. little tune I just composed not so
long ago'
'Ms. Billie, Ms. Billie, Ms. Billie Holiday'
*HORNS*
*drum roll* *piano keys played*
*HORNS*
'Byrd..?' *trumpet solo* *group horns*
'The music called jazz..' -> Guru
*HORNS*

[Guru]
It's roots are in the sounds of the African
or should I say the mother.. bringin us back again
From the drummin on the Congo, we came with a strong flow
and continue to grow
Feet move, to the beat of the t'balo
Now dig the story and follow
For then it landed, on American soil
Through the sweat, the blood, and the toil
Hear, 'Praise the Lord,' shouted on chain gangs
Pain they felt, but it helped them to maintain
Scott Joplin's rags, Bessie Smith's blues
St. Louis Blues, they were all the news
Ringin' smooth.. in all the listeners ears
Fulfillin' the needs, and plantin' the seeds
of a jazz thing

King Oliver's group was a train comin through
to Chicago, bringin' the New Orleans groove
And when Satchmo blew, the audience knew
Basin Street Blues was the whorehouse tune
it was music.. great to dance to
Great to romance to with a lot to say to you
Relaying a message, revealing the essence
of a jazz thing

* DJ Premier cuts 'jazz music' *

In the 40's came be-bop, the first be-bop
The real be-bop, so let me talk about
Diz' and Bird, givin' the word
Defining how a beat could be so complete
Playing with ferocity, thinkin' with velocity
About Ornithology, or Anthropology
and even Epistrophy, and this is real history
Thelonious Monk, a melodious thunk

No mistakes were made with the notes he played
His conception, was recondite
A star glowing bright among dim lights
The critics did cite that he sounded alright
Charlie Mingus, such nimble fingers
Droppin' the bass, all over the place
and Max Roach, cymbals socking
Bass drum talking, snare drum rocking
Restructuring.. the metaphysics
of a jazz thing

John Coltrane, a man supreme
He was the cream.. he was the wise one
The impression of Afro Blue
and of the promise, that was not kept
He was a GIANT step, and there was Ornette Coleman
He was another soul man
The original invisible, playing great music
I wonder why the bankers couldn't use it
Now listen see
The real mystery is how music history
created Paul Whiteman or any other white man
that pretended he originated 'uh-huh..'
and contended that he innovated 'uh-huh..'
a jazz thing
('Of course we know who can really blow')
Schemin' on the meaning
of a jazz thing

And this music ain't dead, so don't be misled
by those who said that jazz was on it's deathbed
Cause when Betty Carter sings a song
ain't nothin' goin on, but simply good music
And you won't refuse it
She's takin' her time, makin' the nuances rhyme
Sonny Rollins, tenor saxophone
with a big old tone, recitin' poems
with notes as words, and haven't you heard
NEXT STOP BUTTER, RIGHT PAST OLEO
Now there's young cats blowin'
And more and more people, yes they will be knowin'
Jazz ain't the past, this music's gonna last
and as the facts unfold, remember who foretold
The 90's, will be the decade of
a jazz thing 'I love jazz music' (3X)

* Primo scratches 'I love jazz music' *

A jazz thing..

[Pete C]

1. What do you mean by research?

2. What do you mean by influential?

3. Have you researched this elsewhere? I believe a bbs can indeed be a good reference resource at times (I'm actually in the process of writing on the subject), but in a case like this it shouldn't be the first resource.

[HenryMc]

No its my own work ...just rubbish that comes spewing out

[Uli]

Originally Posted by Pete C

(I'm actually in the process of writing on the subject), but in a case like this it shouldn't be the first resource.

Let us know when it comes out, Pete.

[jazzman965]

by research i mean i need to find out

and influential how many people were influenced

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by jazzman965

by research i mean i need to find out

and influential how many people were influenced

You sure know how to ingratiate yourself.

[marmite_sandwich]

how do you define black?
careful, now...

[Scott Yanow]

Hmmm, Paul Whiteman claimed to originate and innovate? When, where? The King Of Jazz was just a title given him by a press agent that he was never comfortable with and reluctant to ever use. He never claimed to originate anything. He however did make a major contribution to jazz in the 1920s, but that's another topic.

[bostontricky]

True, Scott.

However, the song would have taken a dangerous turn if these guys tried to rhyme something with "Nick LaRocca"...

[clinthopson]

Henry, you da man!

I would think that the "researcher" has little or no knowledge of jazz.

[jazzy mary]

Henry, you're amazing!! jazmaan, By "influential" if you mean which Black jazz musicians influenced how players play and approach the music, I'd have to say Duke, Louis and Bird. By "influential" by meaning "famous, legendary, fascinating, capturing the imagination of the public"--I'd have to add Miles and Mingus to that list but, frankly, I don't think Miles, at least, really "influenced" players that much.

jazmaan, I think your question is too broad, could you give us a little more info? What is this for--a paper? If so, what kind of a paper?

[burning dog]

Originally Posted by jazzman965

by research i mean i need to find out

and influential how many people were influenced

Louis Armstrong (trumpet), Charlie Parker(alto sax) and Ornette Coleman(alto sax) had a huge influence, as they were very important in changing the structure of Jazz but probably Charlie Parker had the most imitators.

John Coltrane (tenor and soprano sax) years after his death had a lot of imitators of his tone and harmonic approach, but they were often people who played in a far less radical context than their mentor.

Thelonious Monk(piano) was a great original but was very hard to copy, so his influence is felt as composer of pieces that challenge the soloist.

Duke Ellington (piano) is known as a band leader and a great composer of peices which leave space for improvisation. He wrote with specific players in mind not just specific instruments. His piano playing is underrated.

Miles Davis had an influence on the trumpet and made the Harmon mute a common feature, his bands were used as a template for others and he had a great influence on music outside of Jazz (Funk/Rock) being an exponent of modal improvisation.

[Pete C]

Jazz Corner people are amazingly helpful to a person who clearly doesn't warrant the assistance.

[crawjo]

Originally Posted by Pete C

Jazz Corner people are amazingly helpful to a person who clearly doesn't warrant the assistance.

You're such a welcoming fellow, Pete.

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by crawjo

You're such a welcoming fellow, Pete.

Did you read his response to my initial question.

[jazzy mary]

Henry, have you ever thought of sending your poems to Mark Murphy or Kurt Elling?? I really wish Eddie Jefferson were around today--just for you!!

[crawjo]

Originally Posted by Pete C

Did you read his response to my initial question.

Yeah, so what? It's a perfectly harmless question in the first place.

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by crawjo

Yeah, so what? It's a perfectly harmless question in the first place.

An ill-defined question is never harmless when the inquiring person fails to refine it on request.