N.C. Church Kicks Out Members Who Do Not Support Bush

groover · May-9th-2005, 04:18 PM

N.C. Church Kicks Out Members Who Do Not Support Bush

Associated Press
Sunday, May 8, 2005; A12

WAYNESVILLE, N.C., May 7 -- Some in Pastor Chan Chandler's flock wish he had a little less zeal for the GOP.

Members of the small East Waynesville Baptist Church say Chandler led an effort to kick out congregants who did not support President Bush. Nine members were voted out at a Monday church meeting in this mountain town about 120 miles west of Charlotte. Forty others in the 400-member congregation resigned in protest.

"He's the kind of pastor who says 'Do it my way or get out,' " said Selma Morris, the former church treasurer. "He's real negative all the time."

Chandler told WLOS-TV in Asheville on Friday that the actions were not politically motivated, but on Saturday he refused to comment, citing the advice of his attorney.

During the presidential election last year, Chandler told the congregation that anyone who planned to vote for the Democratic nominee, Sen. John F. Kerry (Mass.), should either leave the church or repent, former member Lorene Sutton said.

Some church members left after Chandler made his ultimatum in October, Morris said.

George Bullard, associate executive director-treasurer for Baptist State Convention of North Carolina, told the Asheville Citizen-Times that a pastor may disallow memberships if a church's bylaws allow the pastor to establish criteria for membership.

"Membership is a local church issue," he said. "It is not something the state convention would enter into."

He added that the nine members were not legally terminated, because Monday's meeting was supposed to be a deacons meeting, not a business meeting. They have a lawyer looking into the situation, he said.

The head of the North Carolina Democratic Party sharply criticized the pastor Friday, saying Chandler jeopardized his church's tax-free status by openly supporting a candidate for president.

"If these reports are true, this minister is not only acting extremely inappropriately by injecting partisan politics into a house of worship, but he is also potentially breaking the law," Chairman Jerry Meek said.

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In the name of God, make 'em pay taxes!

Darryl G. Thomas · May-9th-2005, 04:23 PM

I mentioned this in another thread. It'll be interesting to see what the outcome will be. I doubt that the church will lose it's tax exempt status.

Slurpy · May-9th-2005, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by groover

"He's the kind of pastor who says 'Do it my way or get out,' " said Selma Morris, the former church treasurer. "He's real negative all the time."

Well, look at the material he has to work with. It's not like he's got
any "good news" to share.

May-9th-2005, 04:34 PM

Not too long before the election, a restaurant which I believe was up in Columbia made the nightly news for refusing to serve anyone who had any kind of Bush/Chaney paraphenalia on.

Both sides have their share of silly and closed minded motherfuckers.

Slurpy · May-9th-2005, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Dolan

Both sides have their share of silly and closed minded motherfuckers.

Agreed, but this Pastor is clearly breaking tax law.

From irs.gov

Political Campaign Activity

Under the Internal Revenue Code, all section 501(c)(3) organizations are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office.* Contributions to political campaign funds or public statements of position (verbal or written) made on behalf of the organization in favor of or in opposition to any candidate for public office clearly violate the prohibition against political campaign activity.* Violation of this prohibition may result in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and the imposition of certain excise tax.*

May-9th-2005, 05:13 PM

Hmmmm.........

That'd be an incredibly tough case to prosecute.

Monte Smith · May-9th-2005, 05:30 PM

I agree that Pastor Chan Chandler should be shot in the ass. His name alone qualifies him for that. But his decision that only those of his flock who vote properly are proper Christians is an abuse of the religion as I understand it. He soon won't have much of a flock to lead, I predict, and then he'll be not "pastor" but plain old Chan.

Now having said that, the vigor with which tax law is being advertised as a regulatory remedy against the bad but free exercise of religion seems unconstitutional. The Congress is directed to make no law regarding the free exercise of religion; there is no qualification or test assigned to that clause which allows Congress to demark separate taxable and untaxable categories of faith.

Now having having said that, there are certainly charlatans and jerks out there who evade tax laws via a mirage of religion. And there are probably churches that have had their tax-free statuses revoked. I'm just saying that a Congress-created IRS vigorously regulating religion (should that come to pass), would be unconstitutional and as dangerous a break in the "separation of church and state" as I have seen.

lynn · May-9th-2005, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toilet on his head

Not too long before the election, a restaurant which I believe was up in Columbia made the nightly news for refusing to serve anyone who had any kind of Bush/Chaney paraphenalia on.

I'm sorry but I don't see the connection. One pays taxes, the other is protected by the separation of church and state and doesn't. ****Mighty christian folks too.***** I guess these guys didn't get the memo about all god's children.

I say tax 'em too

(edit)****typo on the mighty

graypencil · May-9th-2005, 06:22 PM

I say tax ALL of 'em ..

and tax the ones with the satellite tv megachurches on the air begging for money TWICE as much!

Noj · May-9th-2005, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graypencil

I say tax ALL of 'em ..

and tax the ones with the satellite tv megachurches on the air begging for money TWICE as much!

Amen.

May-9th-2005, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lynnthedem

I'm sorry but I don't see the connection.

Let me see if I can simplify it for you by reposting what I said a few posts back:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Dolan

Both sides have their share of silly and closed minded motherfuckers.

I'm not concerned with whether or not they have the legal right to think in whatever way they'd like according to tax code. I'm saying that the same idiotic thought process is present on both sides. That was the only connection I was making.

But I suppose in your own mind, I was somehow showing my support for the looney preacher.

Whatever.

Oh, and make no mistake. Your reaction to this situation would be no different whether the church paid taxes or not.

Quote:

Might christian folks too.

Might christian folks too, what?

lynn · May-9th-2005, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toilet on his head

Might christian folks too, what?

See correction in original post.

May-9th-2005, 06:42 PM

I still don't get what that's supposed to mean. But just like the extreme from both sides, they are certainly not speaking for everybody. Not even most from what I know(not that I know as many christians as I used to).

burning dog · May-9th-2005, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Dolan

Not too long before the election, a restaurant which I believe was up in Columbia made the nightly news for refusing to serve anyone who had any kind of Bush/Chaney paraphenalia on.

Both sides have their share of silly and closed minded motherfuckers.

And crap businessmen by the sound of it

May-9th-2005, 07:03 PM

True.

But Columbia is a fairly liberla town, so I'm sure it didn't hurt them too bad.

Either way, it's just idiotic.

Monte Smith · May-9th-2005, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graypencil

I say tax ALL of 'em ..

Now that would be constitutional. Unpopular, I dare say. But constitutional. What I wouldn't want to see is tax policy used as regulation of belief or behavior. That would be unconstitutional, flying in the face of the clear language of the first amendment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by graypencil

...and tax the ones with the satellite tv megachurches on the air begging for money TWICE as much!

Like so. I don't see how you could abridge the free practice of religion by taxing a group you despise more than a group you are willing to tolerate. I mean, you could tax the megachurch more in absolute terms with a flat rate--because plainly they have more income coming across their plates. But you couldn't adjust the tax rate for punitive purposes, or it would be Congress making a law to abridge the free exercise of religion.

sonic1 · May-9th-2005, 07:59 PM

Scott, its a fucking church. When a "liberal" church starts kicking out republicans your argument might have more inertia.

Though I agree with the core of your argument that both "sides" are foaming at the mouth.

May-9th-2005, 08:04 PM

Right.

And that was my only point.

Plus, how do we know that liberla churches haven't engaged in this type of activity?

This dude was just a bit too blatant about it.

Monte Smith · May-9th-2005, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Dolan

Plus, how do we know that liberla churches haven't engaged in this type of activity?

I don't know about liberla churches pushing congregants off of pews because their politics suck, but certainly there has been political activism on the Dem side. Speaking politically, the Black churches have been wholly-owned (edit: no pun) subsidiaries of the Democratic Party for a generation. I wouldn't want to see all mainly African-American congregations taxably penalized for that, not the least because it could change...God willing and the crick don't rise.

sonic1 · May-9th-2005, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monte Smith

I don't know about liberla churches pushing congregants off of pews because their politics suck, but certainly there has been political activism on the Dem side. Speaking politically, the Black churches have been wholly-owned (edit: no pun) subsidiaries of the Democratic Party for a generation. I wouldn't want to see all mainly African-American congregations taxably penalized for that, not the least because it could change...God willing and the crick don't rise.

Good point. Scott if you were a little quicker on your feet you coulda beat Monte to the punch. I am sure it is not popular to be a republican in the above mentioned, however I have a hard time seeing them kicking anyone out for it. It is just not very liberla to kick anyone out of their clubs even though they can foam at the mouth like anyone else.

May-9th-2005, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonic1

It is just not very liberla to kick anyone out of their clubs even though they can foam at the mouth like anyone else.

That's a very sweeping statement, Jared.

To do what the douchbag above did is not very christian, either.

And I suppose months ago we could have sat here and had a heated discussion about whether or not it was very liberla to throw pies in peoples faces at public events.

The hardcore partisanship that has taken over this country has erased many of those "beliefs" in what should be. Wouldn't you agree?

Captain Hate · May-9th-2005, 08:48 PM

Maybe al-Bertsen moved to Carolina. Maybe that's why we haven't heard from Tanager recently.

GoodSpeak · May-9th-2005, 08:54 PM

Isn't it amazing how I was just "full of himself" when I said the very same thing about politics in the pulpit some several years ago.

Maybe now we see the Goodster isn't full of shit, eh?

Amazing, isn't it?

Monte Smith · May-9th-2005, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Dolan

And I suppose months ago we could have sat here and had a heated discussion about whether or not it was very liberla to throw pies in peoples faces at public events.

Omigod, it is now clear. I must attend the speech of a prominent liberla like Gore Vidal or Noam Chomsky and rush the stage, assaulting them with communion wafers and wine.

GoodSpeak · May-9th-2005, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monte Smith

Omigod, it is now clear. I must attend the speech of a prominent liberla like Gore Vidal or Noam Chomsky and rush the stage, assaulting them with communion wafers and wine.

Monte,

You are so full of shit it is to stagger the imagination.

How do you treat the pizza delvery guy if he's a few minutes late?

Call a lawyer? Punch him in the mouth? What?

You conservatives just fry my ass....I mean to tell you.

Monte Smith · May-9th-2005, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodSpeak

Monte,

You are so full of shit it is to stagger the imagination.

How do you treat the pizza delvery guy if he's a few minutes late?

Call a lawyer? Punch him in the mouth? What?

You conservatives just fry my ass....I mean to tell you.

I have no idea what you could possibly mean, Goody.

"You are so full of shit it is to stagger the imagination."

Sweet!

Here is what I do if the pizza guy is a few minutes late: I mumble to myself, "fucking pizza guy." And when he shows up, I say thanks and give him the same $2 tip regardless, thank you very much.

Monte Smith · May-9th-2005, 09:24 PM

God, now I am hungry for pizza.

May-9th-2005, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Goodz

Monte,

You are so full of shit it is to stagger the imagination.

How do you treat the pizza delvery guy if he's a few minutes late?

Call a lawyer? Punch him in the mouth? What?

You conservatives just fry my ass....I mean to tell you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Satan

I have no idea what you could possibly mean, Goody.

I'll have to agree. Goodz, what exactly is your point here?

Quote:

Sweet!

Sweetness!!!

Oh, and guess what the old lady is bringing home for dinner tonight?!

Better callz me a goddamn lawyer!!!

Monte Smith · May-9th-2005, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Dolan

Oh, and guess what the old lady is bringing home for dinner tonight?!

Chateaubriand bouquetiere?! But that has to be ordered 24 hours ahead of time!

GoodSpeak · May-9th-2005, 09:49 PM

My POINT, dear Conservat-ahs is you guys get your undies all up in a bunch when a Liberal calls your political persuasion the Christian Right or compares republicans to religious bigots.

Then, when it all comes back home to roost...you guys all of a sudden got a big giant, HUGE problem with it.

Shit. Give me a f--king break here. Huh?

Hypocrisy, dear boys, is not a family value.