Pounding Nails in My Head

[rollhead]

On Valentine's Day 2003, I decided, at the advanced age of 50, that I was going to learn how to play the saxophone.

I initially thought about tuba, so I could play the "Oom-Pa" part in a community band, but I think my wife (who is a music teacher) conspired with all the music stores to ensure that I could never find a used tuba to buy.

I did discover that a friend of mine, Al Brooks (who occasionally posts on here) had a used Conn "naked lady" tenor saxophone that he was willing to sell me.

And Brian Patneaude (who also posts on here) was courageous enough to offer to give me some beginner lessons.

After wrestling with the Naked Lady, a Selmer Mark VI and a multitude of mouthpieces, ligatures and reeds, I settled on a Keilwerth 90X tenor, a Gary Sugal MP, a Francois Louis lig and 3.5 Vandoren V16 reeds. (That's my setup, don't make me change it.) I also have a student Keilwerth soprano that I play with a Morgan "Vintage" MP and #4 Vandoren Javas.

It has been roughly 880 days since I had my first lesson with Brian, and I have not missed a day with the instrument -- even if it is just to get it out of the box and silently finger some notes (which I did when I was travelling on a train from Chicago to New York recently).

It's no picnic. Everything I learn comes painfully slow. My memory is bad, my ear is bad and my rhythm is off.

It's like I am a stroke victim, trying to relearn how to walk and talk. I still wobble when I do it.

I am joining the local "Oom-Pa" band in the fall, and I want to play with it at least a year or two before moving up to maybe a community swing band or community jazz ensemble.

Another goal is to beat Wynton Marsalis's seven year record for practice without missing a day. (Okay, I count those days in which I have a lesson as a "practice" day, and I also count those days in which I only have 5-10 minutes to practice.)

One of the hard things about all of this is realizing that even if I DO practice everyday for seven years, I may still be wobbling.

If this was a movie, I would be playing with Joe Lovano in 10 years and they would call it "Cinderella Sax."

But they don't make movies out of the guys who get the crap kicked out of them and end up punch drunk.

A friend of mine, another "adult" learner, told me that his 12 year old neighbor wanted to come play with him at a party he was having.

He said the 12 year old cut him a new one.

Well, that's life as a 52-year-old beginner.

[tippy]

Hey, that wind instrument is good for you! So does your face turn red and your neck puff out? Has that swan neck and reed ever darted dangerously at your eye? Only 4 1/2 more years of dailies to go and we can vehemently fight about you in Speak Out. I can't wait.

[Coda]

I've got an old Tenor Sax in my closet...it's been easily 20 years since I've played....and I'm afraid, very afraid of how I'll sound.

Now I'm afraid that even if I did try that the old sax is now in desperate need of a tune up. Did it take much to get yours in working condition?

[jesus marion joseph]

I used to play clarinet in junior high (first seat, biyotch), and I've toyed with the idea of finding a second-hand sax and spittin' on the old reed again.

[GoodSpeak]

Go for it, Rollie.


At the ripe old age of 50, I'm considering taking trumpet lessons [to shore up my chops on the instrument] or trombone lessons.







I would just love to play a duet with my cello playing son.

[rollhead]

It shouldn't cost much to get the old sax in playing condition again.

Fotunately, I've got an excellent sax repair man, Bill Cole, who lives nearby. He was the one who worked on all of Nick Brignola's instruments, as well as Ian Anderson's flutes and some of Garth Hudson's instruments.

I told Bill one day that I was a fan of Adrian Rollini, who was the last great swing bass sax players. He said, "hey, I've worked on Rollini's bass sax," which I thought was incredible since he has been dead since the 50s.

But apparently Garth Hudson now owns Rollini's old horn.

My long-range goal is to play bass sax in a marching band during Mardi Gras. I friend of mine said he saw someone in a marching band with a bass sax... he was carrying it in a grocery store shopping cart ... and blowing away.

[rollhead]

So, do we have any brain scientists on here? Is it possible for someone over 50 to learn anything? If so, how do you go about it?

[patricia]

Originally Posted by rollhead

Is it possible for someone over 50 to learn anything? If so, how do you go about it?

Of course it is. The first step is to have enough passion and belief in that passion. Being told that only things that we learn as children and young adults are hard-wired though is, I think, partially true. I think that because we have so little to unlearn and much more encouragement from those around us then plays a part.
If one is over 50 and decides to take up an instrument, or a paintbrush, or a writing quill or other interest, there is no shortage of naysayers, telling them that while it's cute that they want to live their passion in the second half of their life, they can't hope to attain the level of someone who has learned as a child. Encouragement and belief in yourself and belief in you by those around you, assuming you have the ability plays a HUGE part in whether or not you succeed.

So, go for it!!!

[claude]

Hey rollhead, sounds like you're way ahead of me. I just took up the tenor last December. I am having a ball but I fully understand the thread title, it can be frustrating. Sounds like you have a sweet setup, I'm on a yamaha student horn but I just recently got a Lamberson mouthpiece (similar to the one Ellery uses). My major project now is to learn to keep up with chord changes while improvising, having a tough time with that one since music theory is definitely my weakness.

[groover]

Remember that the journey is more important than the destination, and keep practicing. It's never too late.

[Enforcer]

Originally Posted by patricia

So, go for it!!!

patricia,

I hope you don't mind me taking this excerpt, manipulating it to fit the context of my choice and choosing to interpret it as a private message to myself.

[rollhead]

claude:

Sounds like you are way ahead of ME. I have been beating myself over the head with scales for the last year or so, now I want to move on to chords, so I can just keep up with the changes. I am holding off on the improvisation until I can do the chords/scales in my sleep.

any good theory/harmony books out there that might help?

[claude]

I said I was trying to learn to keep up with the chord changes while improvising, not that I was having much success . My problem is that I love to noodle around so that I'm always "improvising" but I have to force myself to do the scales etc in order to learn how to do it "right". I tend to want to play over my head all the time so I have to consciously dial it back. Right now I'm going through a tune with a fine tooth comb and trying to learn the chords. My instructor put together some exercises in band in a box to practice staying in the chords (I have a tendency to get excited and wander outside the chords). But overall it's a blast.

I got what theory I do have from stuff my instructor had developed over the years, so I don't know what books there are that would be helpful. I really am pretty thick when it comes to this stuff so I don't know how much help I would be.

[groover]

This one's pretty good:



Harmony & Theory: A Comprehensive Source for All Musicians (Essential Concepts (Musicians Institute).) (Paperback)
by Keith Wyatt, Carl Schroeder


though you might consider this also:



I also found this book helpful for it's explanations of the harmonic interval series:

[Ron Thorne]

I'm delighted to learn that several JC regulars are picking up an instrument and are passionate about learning how to make music with it. It's never too late to learn . . . anything you truly care about.

Rollie, you're practice ethic is a particularly good thing. Even if you only can shave 10-15 mins. per day, that's far better than letting things slide for a day or two -- or more.

I tell all of my drum students that repetition and continuity are critical components to becoming a good musician. Repetition when practicing rudiments, ride patterns, complex figures, scales, changes . . . whatever. Continuity in the sense of playing reguarly and frequently, and of equal importance, playing through your mistakes without stopping. Don't worry about a wrong or missed note. It's gone. We can't fix it. Get the next note(s) right while forging ahead and keeping the music happening.

Get that sax in the hands of a compotent repair person, Coda. Then, go for it! You too, Goodspeak.

[claude]

Originally Posted by groover

though you might consider this also:

I figured there must have been a dummy's book for this subject. Let's just say that when it comes to music theory I am this book's target market.

[rollhead]

I hear you claude -- you go!

Thanks for the suggestions, groover, they all look good.

Glad to hear what you said about making mistakes, Ron. I always make tons of them and I keep forging ahead. I figure if I can HEAR the mistakes that is a good sign.

Ron -- have you had much experience teaching older adults? And if so, do you make any different kinds of suggestions for them in terms of their practicing?

[patricia]

Originally Posted by Larry Nagel

patricia,

I hope you don't mind me taking this excerpt, manipulating it to fit the context of my choice and choosing to interpret it as a private message to myself.

Of course I don't mind. As usual, you see my thinly veiled devotion to you hidden in my every post.
Your tenacity is exceeded only by your internationally acclaimed taste and your fabulous good looks. I'm flattered.

[rollhead]

just like you two to turn a serious thread into something about sex.

[claude]

Have any of you amateur players tried recording yourself? Man what a kick in the pants! I have been working on this tune for the last month and I thought I was getting it pretty well down. So I decided to record myself to see how it sounded a little more objectively. My review can be summed up in one word, crap! Man I feel like I have regressed back to my first day with the horn. I feel embarassed by saying earlier in this thread that I was "improvising". It sounds worse than noodling, aimless meandering might be more accurate. Oh well, back to the shed. Now I know I have tons to work on.

[groover]

Originally Posted by claude

Have any of you amateur players tried recording yourself? Man what a kick in the pants!

Yes, nothing's more humbling than listening back to yourself objectively, and it's one of the greatest tools available to improve your playing. On the upside, though, when you really nail something, it's a real thrill to hear it played back.

[Enforcer]

Originally Posted by claude

Have any of you amateur players tried recording yourself? Man what a kick in the pants!

That part never gets any easier, claude. The tape recorder is the most brutal critic you'll ever encounter. I find that I can't go more than a few months without hearing a recording of myself before bad habits start to slip in. At least, that's how it sounds to me. I'm pretty critical of myself. But sometimes I hear a playback and think I should just give up. Amazing how good it sounds while you're playing it, though.

[Ron Thorne]

Originally Posted by rollhead

Glad to hear what you said about making mistakes, Ron. I always make tons of them and I keep forging ahead. I figure if I can HEAR the mistakes that is a good sign.

Ron -- have you had much experience teaching older adults? And if so, do you make any different kinds of suggestions for them in terms of their practicing?

Yes, it's a very good sign when you hear your mistakes, rollhead.

I've taught several adults over the years, though most of my students are ages 12-18. One thing I often encounter with self-taught adults are bad habits which have developed due to the lack of oversight of an instructor. So, I must dedicate substantial time to un-learning the bad habit(s) then instilling the proper, good ones.

One thing I've observed about adult students is that they're often not quite as impatient and geared toward instant gratification as are teenagers. Also, they often have a better practice regimen and stick to it. I can't overemphasize the importance of daily practice, if at all possible.

Also, my adult students often display more refined discipline for utilizing tools such as recorders and metronomes to enhance their practice routine. Yes, a recording of your playing is brutally honest, as is a metronome. I make sure to let my students know that a metronome is a "tool" for helping them develop a better internal sense of time. None of us want to sound rigid, like automatons, but using a metronome periodically can be extraordinarily beneficial, in my experience. Once you have a better sense of maintaining a consistent beat, you'll feel much more free about future rhythmic exploration without the paranoia of getting "lost". That's a good feeling!

Another thing which can be very liberating is to memorize the music or figures you're practicing so that you're actually playing the music rather than being so focused on reading the music.

Closing your eyes while practicing can yield substantial benefits, too. As soon as you remove the sense of sight from the equation you're automatically focusing more on your sense of hearing, so details and subtle adjustments can be made more readily. It's amazing how helpful this simple technique can be for refining your playing. Evenness, accents, dynamics (in general), pitch, etc. come more clearly into focus, allowing you to make the necessary adjustments more quickly and surely. In fact, I find myself closing my eyes while performing in public in order to focus more accutely on certain things, minimizing or eliminating many possible visual distractions.

[rollhead]

Ron,

Terrific advice.

Perhaps because I did not play an instrument as a kid, but I was a great book reader -- much of my learning is "visual."

I seem to always need sheet music in front of me. I am guessing that if I try practicing without looking at the notes my "aural" learning/memory will imrpve faster.