But it must work. I took it, and my cold got better!

[Enforcer]

Echicnacea shown no more effective than placebo in fighting colds. For those who don't want to bother reading it all, let me summarize: "Duh."

[claude]

The reputation of echinacea, also known as purple coneflower,


Hey we have some of that in our garden, I had no idea that it was where echinacea came from. neat. I have always been suspicious of so called herbal cures, the testing just isn't rigerous from what I understand and plants can be dangerous.

[groover]

Originally Posted by claude

I have always been suspicious of so called herbal cures, the testing just isn't rigerous from what I understand and plants can be dangerous.

Especially if they're named "Audrey"!

[Pete C]

"The reputation of echinacea, also known as purple coneflower, is so vaulted that the herb is recommended by the World Health Organization as a treatment for the common cold."

Doesn't the author mean "vaunted"?

[groover]

I believe echinacea raises the white blood cell count. It would be useful to research that directly, regardless of it's effect on the duration of colds. Echinacea may promote general healing yet not be particularly effective against the common cold.

[Chris D]

All I know is it's growing like crazy in my perennial garden. Loves the heat!

And, yes, Pete, the word is "vaunted."

[Enforcer]

Originally Posted by groover

I believe echinacea raises the white blood cell count. It would be useful to research that directly, regardless of it's effect on the duration of colds. Echinacea may promote general healing yet not be particularly effective against the common cold.

Yes, I've heard that and I'm curious why more research hasn't been done to determine what other uses it might have.

[clinthopson]

Chicken Soup and Irish whiskey work better.

[Chaz Longue]

The sheer stupidity the DSHEA encouraged just leaves me feeling gobsmacked. Suddenly everybody is an expert on - and coaching friends in the use of - everything from Homeopathy to "Chinese herbs". Suddenly everybody has a magic diet pill that works - and a way to "boost the immune system".

How did we suddenly get so damned gullible, people?

Wanna boost your immune system? Get more sleep.

Wanna lose weight? Go for a walk.

Wanna get fewer colds? Wash your hands a lot - particularly after shaking hands and eating. Particularly after shaking hands and eating lunch with children.

If you have LUPIS, are morbidly obese, or have pneumonia...consult a doctor.

We KNOW how to be healthier: Eat better, sleep more, exercise regularly.

Need vitamins? Actually - no you don't. But if you think you do...just eat more fresh fruits and vegetables. Vitamin pills aren't going to cure what ails ya. Spinach, broccoli and cabbage. MMMMMM........Apples, fer chrissakes. Eat an apple...

Wow...

btw - The point of the article IS the darned research. It's been done. People are dreaming. It doesn't work.

Wanna buy some gensing?
How about some nice bee pollen?
Homeopathic foolishness cure?

[jesus marion joseph]

Mrs. jmj ain't gonna be happy when she hears about this. She insists on gulping down echinacea tincture and vinegar when she feels a cold coming on. It never works, and she eventually succombs and takes "evil white man medicine" as we jokingly refer to aleopathic drugs, after which she has a speedy recovery. Me, I just skip to the strongest, harshest chemicals I can get my hands on right from the start. Echinacea tincture doesn't even taste good.

I just remembered one time when she tried to fight off a cold by eating whole cloves of raw garlic. When I walked into the room to go to bed the smell nearly knocked me over. She stopped doing that crap.

Originally Posted by Pete C

Doesn't the author mean "vaunted"?

Obviously herbal medicine is not your thing.

[Enforcer]

Originally Posted by Chaz Longue

The sheer stupidity the DSHEA encouraged just leaves me feeling gobsmacked. Suddenly everybody is an expert on - and coaching friends in the use of - everything from Homeopathy to "Chinese herbs". Suddenly everybody has a magic diet pill that works - and a way to "boost the immune system".

How did we suddenly get so damned gullible, people?

Wanna boost your immune system? Get more sleep.

Wanna lose weight? Go for a walk.

Wanna get fewer colds? Wash your hands a lot - particularly after shaking hands and eating. Particularly after shaking hands and eating lunch with children.

If you have LUPIS, are morbidly obese, or have pneumonia...consult a doctor.

We KNOW how to be healthier: Eat better, sleep more, exercise regularly.

Need vitamins? Actually - no you don't. But if you think you do...just eat more fresh fruits and vegetables. Vitamin pills aren't going to cure what ails ya. Spinach, broccoli and cabbage. MMMMMM........Apples, fer chrissakes. Eat an apple...

Wow...

btw - The point of the article IS the darned research. It's been done. People are dreaming. It doesn't work.

Wanna buy some gensing?
How about some nice bee pollen?
Homeopathic foolishness cure?

You said it all, Chaz. Here's a good litmus test for solutions to health problems, nutrition and exercise that seem too easy to be true: Does someone stand to make a huge profit by selling a book or line of products in the name of it? If so, it's usually safe to assume it's horsesh**.

When my daughter was about 9 years old, she saw a commercial for one of those exercise gimmicks. It involved something like a rowing motion and claimed you could get "ripped" by using it for only 5 minutes a day. My daughter watched a woman demonstrating it on TV by sipping a glass of water and smiling while watching television. She asked me, "Dad, isn't exercise hard work? How can it really work if you're not sweating or trying hard?"

A question supposedly world wise adults don't bother asking, I guess.

Raw garlic works very well against minor infections. I use it whenever I get a sinus infection. Usually knocks it out after one day.

OTOH, cooked garlic and these garlic capsules(i.e. Garlique)have little, if any, of the antibiotic qualities found in raw garlic. Cooked garlic is good to eat, but won't help a sinus infection for shit. The capsule bullshit will do even less.

Milk Thistle is also VERY good for the liver. I speak from experience on that one.

Most other herbs are bunk from what I have experienced over the years.

Well, except for Valerian Root. That's a fine sedative.

[groover]

Still, it's hard to believe they spent $1.5 billion researching this and didn't bother to perform a simple blood test to check white blood cell counts.

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by Scott Dolan

.

Well, except for Valerian Root. That's a fine sedative.

It never did a thing for me.

[Doc Martin]

Originally Posted by Chaz Longue

The sheer stupidity the DSHEA encouraged just leaves me feeling gobsmacked. Suddenly everybody is an expert on - and coaching friends in the use of - everything from Homeopathy to "Chinese herbs". Suddenly everybody has a magic diet pill that works - and a way to "boost the immune system".

How did we suddenly get so damned gullible, people?

Wanna boost your immune system? Get more sleep.

Wanna lose weight? Go for a walk.

Wanna get fewer colds? Wash your hands a lot - particularly after shaking hands and eating. Particularly after shaking hands and eating lunch with children.

If you have LUPIS, are morbidly obese, or have pneumonia...consult a doctor.

We KNOW how to be healthier: Eat better, sleep more, exercise regularly.

Need vitamins? Actually - no you don't. But if you think you do...just eat more fresh fruits and vegetables. Vitamin pills aren't going to cure what ails ya. Spinach, broccoli and cabbage. MMMMMM........Apples, fer chrissakes. Eat an apple...

Wow...

btw - The point of the article IS the darned research. It's been done. People are dreaming. It doesn't work.

Wanna buy some gensing?
How about some nice bee pollen?
Homeopathic foolishness cure?

Good advise, Chaz Longue. People want a Panacea, well guess what....

Originally Posted by Pete C

It never did a thing for me.

Did for me.

[Chaz Longue]

Larry - I'd agree. In fact I often do. Great minds think alike, and so on...except for the fact that in very many cases when somebody stands to profit - it's because the expensive drug actually works.

Mere healthy skepticism simply isn't enough I fear. Ask anybody who uses medication for, say, asthma (as I do) or high blood preasure (as I will within a few years).

Here's another amazing example. Some of the newer anti-psychotic medications are (literally) life saving drugs. Ask a schizophrenic. Ditto the anti anxiety drugs. There just didn't used to be ANYTHING that could be done for some people with severe psychiatric ailments (insert joke here) but now there are. Trust me on this. I have worked in the field.

Pain meds are another case. Somebody profits from novocaine? Codeine? Halleluja, brother!

But hey - look like ARNOLD without any sweat? Lose weight while eating our magic cheesecake? Homeopathy? Lie to somebody else...

So all forms of homeopathy are nothing but pure bullshit?


Am I reading this correctly?

[Rob C]

Originally Posted by Scott Dolan

Raw garlic works very well against minor infections. I use it whenever I get a sinus infection. Usually knocks it out after one day.

I'm a believer too, I try to chew down a couple of cloves when I start to feel sick. But I think maybe hating the taste of raw garlic so much just gives me the sheer willpower to overcome infections more quickly?

[Chaz Longue]

Scott -

For Homeopathy to work, the laws of Physics would need to be suspended.

I'll probably need to explain this further, but lack the time at the moment.

Lets start here:
Those "X" marks on the bottles stand for the strength of dilution. There's a bit of jargon for this, but the word dilute gets it across pretty well. If you do the math - these preparations are so dilute that often none of the ingredient remains. It's said by "practitioners" that only the "vibrations" are left.


There are famous debunkers of junk science who present to gullible medical students - and simply gulp bottle after bottle of "arsenic" and so on. Because in many preparations, there's none of the ingredient. None. Gas chromatography and electron microscopes can't find any.

Please don't tell me "The Germans" have used homeopathic remedies for years. I don't doubt it. Gullibility is common as beer. So what.

For Homeopathy to be effective, the laws of physics would have to be suspended.

It's not mere bullshit. It's PERNICIOUS bullshit.

Wanting to believe it's so - doesn't make it so.

The fact some Doctors are incompetent or worse, doesn't make snake oil effective.

Hahaha..........you might be right, Rob.


Actually, I don't mind the taste. It's the after taste that lingers in your mouth for the next 24 hours. Brush your teeth and gargle all you want, it ain't going anywhere.

[groover]

Originally Posted by Chaz Longue

Wanna boost your immune system? Get more sleep.

Wanna lose weight? Go for a walk.

Wanna get fewer colds? Wash your hands a lot - particularly after shaking hands and eating. Particularly after shaking hands and eating lunch with children.

If you have LUPIS, are morbidly obese, or have pneumonia...consult a doctor.

We KNOW how to be healthier: Eat better, sleep more, exercise regularly.

Need vitamins? Actually - no you don't. But if you think you do...just eat more fresh fruits and vegetables. Vitamin pills aren't going to cure what ails ya. Spinach, broccoli and cabbage. MMMMMM........Apples, fer chrissakes. Eat an apple...

These are somewhat glib responses, Chaz. There are some people in our demanding society who want to avoid colds but aren't able to get more sleep, such as policemen, firemen, emergency medical technicians, and others who have stressful jobs that many other lives are dependent upon. You may be retired or have some leisurely occupation, but I personally have been under the gun for weeks at a time throughout my career and had to work tons of overtime just to keep my job. I'd get a lot more sleep if I were unemployed, but somehow I fear my health would still suffer if I couldn't afford adequate food, clothing, and shelter. In a perfect world, things would be different, but we don't live in a perfect world, last time I checked.

Also, there's a limit on how much nutrition you can get via food consumption before you suffer from the effects of over-consumption. Much of the produce that's available today is nutritionally deficient due to modern farming techniques that favor appearance over nutritional content. A well designed supplement can provide critical nutrition in a bio-available form that would be difficult to attain merely through diet, especially for those of us over a certain age when the body begins to process things less effectively.

However, if what you're doing currently as far as diet and exercise is working for you, don't change a thing.

Jesus Chaz, you've got some serious issues there, brother.

Yes, much of it IS bullshit. On this we agree. But not all of it is.

You are truly taking it a bit too far.

Vinegar, as well as Goldenseal, will give you clean results on piss tests.

[groover]

Originally Posted by Chaz Longue

Larry - I'd agree. In fact I often do. Great minds think alike, and so on...except for the fact that in very many cases when somebody stands to profit - it's because the expensive drug actually works.

Mere healthy skepticism simply isn't enough I fear. Ask anybody who uses medication for, say, asthma (as I do) or high blood preasure (as I will within a few years).

Here's another amazing example. Some of the newer anti-psychotic medications are (literally) life saving drugs. Ask a schizophrenic. Ditto the anti anxiety drugs. There just didn't used to be ANYTHING that could be done for some people with severe psychiatric ailments (insert joke here) but now there are. Trust me on this. I have worked in the field.

As an employee of a large drug company, I do agree with you on this, Chaz. Despite what Tom Cruise thinks, there are situations where the only practical solution is that offered by modern medicine. Our anti-psychotic drug, Seroquel, has greatly helped trumpeter Tom Harrell function normally without the negative side effects of earlier treatments.

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by Doc Martin

People want a Panacea,

I'm happy with some good pancetta.

[Enforcer]

Personally, I think Chaz's approach is called for. It's hard to find an area in which there is more misinformation spread than nutrition and health. So many people are manipulated into buying into the latest fad bullsh** thing that nobody knows what to do anymore. It demands a slap-in-the-face attack, as far as I'm concerned.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm surrounded by people who jump from one bandwagon to the next and wonder why they constantly fail. They try every new diet that someone can find a publisher to print a book about, it lasts a couple months, they gain the weight back and then move on to the next one, with the same predictable failure. All the while, they tune out the good available information. Nobody wants to be told to eat less and exercise more, but that's what you have to do! People aren't getting any healthier pissing their lives away on these fad diets, and they're not getting any happier, either. They often make unnecessary sacrifices that don't yield any results, or at least not results that last.

The skepticism about the institution of medicine is taken to the extreme. As Chaz alluded to, there are people who take a hostile attitude towards doctors and the medical community in general because of a few exceptional incidents. Someone you know had a bad experience with a doctor, so that means nothing any doctor says is ever right, and you'll only use alternative approaches to everything because of it. That's just crazy, and it's scary how prevalent that attitude is. And it's exploited by these slimeballs who prey on that kind of fear and lead people to make poor decisions that could be detrimental to their well being in the name of capitalizing on it. It's some terrible sh** that people need to wake up about.

[Pete C]

Diet failure is not your fault!

http://www.relacore.tv/

[Doc Martin]

Originally Posted by Pete C

I'm happy with some good pancetta.

There you go...