Southern Rock

GoodSpeak · May-27th-2003, 10:30 PM

Much has been made of the California Surf Music and the Motown Sound...Chicago Blues, New Orleans Jazz.

But what about the genre of Southern Rock [sometimes called Georgia Rock]?

Several bands made some seriously good music back in that genre's hey-day.

Not the least of which were:

Marshall Tucker Band
Charlie Daniels Ban
Allman Brothers
Bruce Hornsby [who also does a little Jazz cross-over]
Alabama
Lynard Skynyrd
Pure Prarie league
Elvin Bishop
Black Oak Arkansas
Doug Kershaw
Little Feat
Atlanta Rythm Section

There are many others...

Which of those bands sticks out in your mind? Why?

Favorite songs?

Or anything else you can mention.

The Band, IMHO, started it all.

Your thoughts?

TimMc

GoodSpeak · May-27th-2003, 10:32 PM

HL? Tanager?

You are the resident Southerners here...what do you think?

Tanager · May-27th-2003, 10:54 PM

Ummm...

Bruce Hornsby == Southern Rock? Not even close, by my reckoning. Ditto for PPL (ugh, like an extra-wimpy mixture of America and the Eagles).

The Band was from Canada and are really more "Country Rock" than Southern Rock, and the two are not the same in my mind, although there's a good bit of cross-pollination.

If you wanna talk about the 70s heyday, you'd have to start with bands like the Allman Bros., although they were substantially better musicians than most of the bands which followed. A lot of folks would toss in CCR and Little Feat - but both of those were California bands, IIRC, although Bill Payne gave Little Feat a lot of their "Southern" sound - lots of folks saw them as the heirs to the Allmans. I do, FWIW, dig the hell outta Little Feat.

A lot of Southern Rock came out of R&B (think Muscle Shoals, Booker T & the MGs) - a lot of Skynrd's honkytonk numbers and ARS comes out of this, IMHO. The best work, for me, stayed close to blues/R&B roots - the more country-oriented Southern Rock just had too pop a sound, for me, and it paled next to good rockabilly/roots country, such as Dwight Yoakum (who might belong on this list, but he really straddles several genres).

Charlie Daniels is best-known for "The Devil Went Down to Georgia," but his older stuff as well is boogiedown honkytonk stuff right up there with Skynrd. A lot of good songs, but a lot of album filler, some of it sounds the same after a while. But I still have a soft spot for ol' Charlie, North Carolina boy that he is. He's a funny cat, b/c he started off writing with kind of a hippie sensibility, IIRC, but he started producing some pretty arch-conservative lyrics later on.

I never dug a lot of Marshall Tucker - got sorta the same after a while (this is, IMHO, true of lots of Southern Rock acts).

Then you have to include those bands which went for the "Wall of Guitars" sound - the Outlaws & Molly Hatchett foremost among them. Like pretty much everyone else other than Skynrd and the Allmans (again, IMHO), a few great longs, lots of pretty mediocre filler around them. Ditto for .38 Special.

Alabama is, to my mind, much more country than rock. The line isn't that firm, I realize, but...they just don't really belong, by my estimation.

When it gets right down to it, the number of Southern Rock acts (and you, Goody, and others are free to disagree on where I've drawn the lines, b/c I will admit they're pretty subjective once you get into the more country-ish areas) which have produced consistently excellent work is pretty small - only the Allman Bros. and Skynrd (and Little Feat, if you include them under Southern Rock, ditto if you want to include rockabilly/nuevo-Bakersfield acts like Yoakum) have sizable ouvres of material worth seeking out, for my $$$. Most of the others have great tracks, no doubt - I do like some songs by almost every band mentioned above, including Marshall Tucker (I really like them better than came across above).

All purely off-the-cuff and very much IMHO. I don't think my being a Southerner makes me any more qualified to talk about this stuff, but thanks for the nod, Goody.

GoodSpeak · May-27th-2003, 11:04 PM

"Long Haired Country Boy" was/has been always one of my Charlie Daniels Band favorites.

Then he went conservative on me...ack.

Out of curiosity, why do you think Marshall Tucker Band is full of sameness?

I mean, LONG HARD RIDE and SEARCHIN' FOR A RAINBOW were classic Western albums, IMO.

Tunes like Proprty Line, Bob my Blues Away, Walkin' and Talkin', You Say You Love Me all sound like that old school Western music to these ears.

We have a group here locally called the Sons of the San Joaquin....all they do is old time Western tunes. They remind me a lot of those two albums.

Monte Smith · May-27th-2003, 11:15 PM

As Tan indicated, there is a difference between Southern rock and country rock and I much prefer the latter, including Gram Parsons and Neil Young.

But then I do recall fondly driving with my sister to high school listening to Molly Hatchet.

"I'm travellin' down the road and I'm flirtin' with disaster."

GoodSpeak · May-27th-2003, 11:20 PM

Feats don't fail me now.

Ron Thorne · May-28th-2003, 12:16 AM

I always have enjoyed the Allman Brothers band(s), as well as Little Feat. Tanager's correct about the "roots" of Little Feat ... Los Angeles. Lowell George (1945-1979) was a masterful guitarist/songwriter who (arguably) should and could have lived longer, without many of the "pleasures of the road". That band came into existence as the result of Zappa disbanding the "original" Mothers of Invention (bassist Roy Estrada). Sometimes being "fired" is a good thing.

Last performance
Lisner Auditorium, George Washington University, Washington, D.C.
June 28, 1979

Gonna write a letter
Gonna send it away
Put all the trouble in it
That you had today
-LG

Sailin' Shoes
Dixie Chicken
Feets Don't Fail Me Now

All classics!

And while some would say they were more a white southern r&b band than a "rock" band, I can't pass up an opportunity to mention one of my very favorite 70's bands ... Edgar Winter's White Trash. If you haven't heard 'em, you haven't lived!

Dr Dave · May-28th-2003, 12:36 AM

I feel obliged to chime in since I made my living during the '70s as a Duane Allman wannabe. The Southern Rock thing was all built on the Allmans: multiple lead guitars, basic blues structures, and (for me, at least) a major cultural chip on the shoulder, fully expressed by Lynyrd Skynrd's "Sweet Home Alabama." I loved the music, but I couldn't deal with the politics. I do believe that the first Allman Brothers recording, with "It's Not My Cross To Bear" and "Dreams" and "Whipping Post" was Art with a capital A. Can't say it for anything they released afterwards. Lynyrd Skynrd was a band that substituted redneck politics for inspiration. Wet Willie was more influenced by James Taylor than they cared to admit; Molly Hatchet had the chops but no core identity; there were umpty-jillion bands in Atlanta that wanted to be the next Allman Bros, but the only one that got close was Glenn Phillips, who was the only guitarist other than Duane Allman in that idiom who could actually sustain a 20-minute guitar solo. Honorable mention to the English group, Wishbone Ash, which started out as an Allman Bros. knockoff and managed to stay soulful for an album or so.

Tom Storer · May-28th-2003, 04:11 AM

I was a big Allmans fan in my teens. Dave, you prefer their first album to the live Fillmore material? Funny.

I liked Little Feat, too. Tried to get into Skynyrd and Marshall Tucker but didn't manage it. Skynyrd's three guitars sounded like overkill and paled in comparison to Allman/Betts, and Marshall Tucker was too precious and ain't-I-jes-a-country-boy-ish.

Tanager · May-28th-2003, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tom Storer
I was a big Allmans fan in my teens. Dave, you prefer their first album to the live Fillmore material? Funny.

I liked Little Feat, too. Tried to get into Skynyrd and Marshall Tucker but didn't manage it. Skynyrd's three guitars sounded like overkill and paled in comparison to Allman/Betts, and Marshall Tucker was too precious and ain't-I-jes-a-country-boy-ish.

I preferred (and still do prefer) the live sets from the Fillmore, as I sense that you do, too, Tom. Simply riveting stuff.

On the "ain't-I-jes-a-country-boy" front, that's how I feel about the album of new material they put out after Duane's death, Brothers and Sisters - "Ramblin' Man" is one of the most incredibly annoying songs I can imagine, and MAN, was it overplayed (I don't listen to much classic rock radio anymore, so maybe it's still overplayed, who knows).

It's that "ain't I" preciousness that, for me, pervades way too much of the more country-flavored Dixie Rock - as much as I like roots country and roots music in general, too much Southern country-rock is just way too caught up in its own folksy charm (mostly imagined). I vastly prefer the more honky-tonk material - and the Allmans were sui generis, IMHO.

I liked Skynrd more than perhaps Tom and some other posters did, especially b/c, at their best, they seemed to capture that barroom/roadhouse drankin' & playin' vibe. I do think they spent way too much time trying to be a second coming of the Allman Brothers, and, as I said before, the only band that came close for me was Little Feat - Waiting For Columbus is just an incredible album, and their studio work before then is all of a pretty high caliber. I don't like the post-George work, songs such as "Texas Twister" are just pretty mediocre guitar boogie without much soul to me.

Aggie87 · May-28th-2003, 08:19 AM

In the late 70's there was a Skynrd spin-off group called Blackfoot. I think it was Rick Medlock, who was sort of a peripheral Skynyrd player (though he sang on a couple of their earlier tunes, IIRC), and a couple of guys who were Native American. Don't remember their names off the top of my head.

But they had a couple of really solid southern rock records, "Flyin' High", and "No Reservations". Seemed like they got real big (well for southern rock anyway) with "Tomcattin'". Stylistically they were almost a Skynyrd clone, but there were some good tunes on those albums. Then they added a keyboard player, started having personnel changes, and it quickly went downhill.

Medlock is back playing guitar for Skynyrd now, I think. At least I saw him when they did Austin City Limits in the past year or two.

Tanager · May-28th-2003, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aggie87
In the late 70's there was a Skynrd spin-off group called Blackfoot.

They were pretty big, especially with the track, "Train Train" (I think that was the name), and they still play the Southern club circuit (or they still were as of, maybe, a couple years ago). Another "Wall of Guitars" Skynrd-inspired band.

Vince Kargatis · May-28th-2003, 08:43 AM

More recent stuff: Drivin' 'n' Cryin' and Southern Culture on the Skids both deserve mention. Maybe 16 Horsepower (who I love), depending on definitions.

HenryMc · May-28th-2003, 08:46 AM

One of the albums of the Year last year in one of aussie's little roots type magazine RHYTHMS published out of melbourne was the DRIVE BY TRUCKERS with THE SOUTHERN ROCK OPERA. Not really a rock opera but a Skynnrd inspired 2 CD set about a southern rock band in a land where sport stars rule.

Do yerself a favour and check this one out

"and bon scott singing let there be rock.....''

Gentle Giant · May-28th-2003, 09:53 AM

Definitely not an expert on the genre, and generally didn't like the Molly Hatchetts and .38 Specials that sounded just plain weird on Boston radio when I was in high school. But for me, Southern rock begins and ends with the Allman Brothers. They were good enough to transcend any category, and even pure jazzers recognize their musical and improvisational chops.

I also liked Lynyrd Skynyrd (yes, even Free Bird), although they went in and out of hipness due to incessant airplay. Had they not lost Ronnie Van Zant, I believe they'd still be a big act, although they seemed to be heading in more of a straight rock and roll direction.

I also dug an Allmans spin-off band, Sea Level, with Jaimoe and Chuck Leavell. They did stuff that sounded a lot like Little Feat.

Jim Dye · May-28th-2003, 10:22 AM

The best place to go see Southern Rock...

http://www.skullbonepark.com/

Yee-hah!

al j · May-28th-2003, 10:32 AM

The Doc and I share something in our Duane Allman fetishes. 10 years ago I bought a coricidin bottle and proceeded to learn (and nail) every Duane slide lick I could think of. There will never be another.

"It's Not My Cross To Bear": check out the original Allman's group, Hour Glass.

As far as southern rock is concerned, anything recorded by Tom Dowd at Muscle Shoals seems worth checking out.

Chris D · May-28th-2003, 10:56 AM

The one band was Allman Joys. I actually have the album, as well as a 2-LP Hourglass collection. I was an Allmans completist at the age of 16.

The search for that type of blissful euphoria -- found in "The Allman Brothers Band," "Idlewild South," the Fillmore LPs and "Eat a Peach" -- led me into a lot of crappy music.

I always thought the first Marshall Tucker album was the best, the one with "Can't You See" and "Take the Highway." They got pretty formulaic after that. But the Caldwell kid picking with his thumb was cool.

Atlanta Rhythm Section was a bodaciously talented outfit, coming out of the Classics IV and "Stormy." Each album had a monster cut; man, what was the long jam that ended "Red Tape"? Then they had a hit and it was downhill.

CDB was really annoying, and then Charlie went super-cracker. Ugh.

Outlaws: How many guitars can you stack? Green grass and high tides to you, too.

The singer for Wet Willie was phenomenal. Keep on smilin', indeed.

Can't lump Little Feat in there. They were their own animal, never to be replicated or imitated. Their songs are among the HARDEST to play; almost nothing unfolds in a linear fashion in their sonic mosaics. "But he was so young, on a 10-city run. In love with a truck stop girl."

MRS · May-28th-2003, 12:03 PM

No one's mentioned one of the backbones of this music (well I guess via the Shoals): The Memphis Horns.

Atlanta Rhythm Section was always solid. . .I essentially learned the guitar from Forrest Richard and Duane, so I'll save the spouting off on those blokes. Anyone who doesn't have it, dig disc one off Live at Ludlow Garage--just about as raw as it gets.

And for detractors of Marshall Tucker, dig the live date "Where It All Begins" which includes a scorching "24 Hours at a Time."

Tanager · May-28th-2003, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Michael Schaumann
No one's mentioned one of the backbones of this music (well I guess via the Shoals): The Memphis Horns.

This was where I was going (but I never quite got there) when I wrote in my first post:

"A lot of Southern Rock came out of R&B (think Muscle Shoals, Booker T & the MGs) - a lot of Skynrd's honkytonk numbers and ARS comes out of this, IMHO."

MRS · May-28th-2003, 12:19 PM

Really great samplers of the Shoals sound can be found on both volumes of the Duane anthology.

Of course in a Southern rock thread I must boast of (in my humblest of opinions) the greatest rock performance in history, the live-in studio take on "You Don't Love Me/Soul Serenade." Without excessive gushing I'll leave it at that.

Edit: that track is off disc three of the AB box.

Chris D · May-28th-2003, 12:32 PM

Very true on the Duane anthologies, Michael.

There's some great music there that would be hard to track on single LPs,
like Johnny Jenkins' "Down Along the Cove" -- a great recording -- and a beautiful place to find things like Herbie Mann's "Push Push" and Aretha's version of "The Weight."

Slurpy · May-28th-2003, 01:13 PM

Those of you who are big Allman fans and especially Duane Allman fans owe it yourself to
check out (if you haven't already )the Derek Trucks Band. Derek is Butch Trucks' nephew and this guy is as close a re-incarnation of Duane Allman as I've ever seen/heard. He's still young
(22 now I think), married to Susan Tedeschi and
the guy's got SKILLS. He's no southern-rocker though he can do the blues/slide thing as well as anyone. He covers a bunch of Coltrane tunes, is a wonderful improvisor/forward thinker when it comes to music and to top it off is a really cool person. He and Warren Haynes (another great talent and cool guy) now do the dual leads for the Allman Bros. Check out young Derek and his band! You wont regret it.

lazarus · May-28th-2003, 01:56 PM

I agree with DrDave that Allman´s selftitled debutalbum is their best. The ultimate statement of southern rock. A great album!
And Greg Allman is a wonderful vocalist!
"Idlewild South" is also a pretty fine album.

I think that the jams on the livealbums soon gets a little tiresome.

MRS · May-28th-2003, 03:28 PM

I hate to be salty but I've played with Derek and seen him a couple times and the Trane tunes are excruciating. He is a formidable talent (not near the slide equal to Haynes) and a heck of a nice guy.

al j · May-28th-2003, 04:13 PM

Haynes' slide playing is way too sterile for me.

Tom Storer · May-28th-2003, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Michael Schaumann
Of course in a Southern rock thread I must boast of (in my humblest of opinions) the greatest rock performance in history, the live-in studio take on "You Don't Love Me/Soul Serenade." Without excessive gushing I'll leave it at that.

Edit: that track is off disc three of the AB box.

Michael, what's "the AB box"? I assume it's an Allmans box set, but... details?

Boris Badenov · May-28th-2003, 05:22 PM

Can't believe these guys haven't been mentioned. More country-rock than southern rock, but still.

MRS · May-28th-2003, 06:12 PM

Tom. . .yeah the 4CD Allman Brother's boxed set. This is the only selection on the box from this recording 'session,' in front of a small audience at A&R Studios just days after the great King Curtis was slain and consequently not too far prior to the death of Duane Allman. The performance is absolutely heartfelt, with Duane talking a bit about his friend, Curtis Ousley (I won't quote it and ruin it for you) before the piece. He then talks about the tune "Soul Serenade" (this is all very brief) and the listener can hint for maybe three seconds that everyone is looking at one another when Duane matter-of-factly declares "I know where we'll do it"--then immediately off into "You Don't Love Me."

Twenty-odd minutes of this band at their definitive peak.

al j · May-28th-2003, 06:51 PM

Schaumann's on it. That mini-medley is whiteboyblues at its finest.

Again, about Warren Haynes. Give him a jheri kurl and an Italian suit and he's the Kenny G of slide guitar. I'd rather have heard Joe Walsh replace the Duanester. Not enough raunch, baby.

RIP Allen Woody.