The frankiepop Anti Jethro Tull Thread

[lazarus]

Figured this was a more appropriate place for frankie, if he wishes, to delineate his problems with this group.




SHOOT FRANKIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gentle Giant]

I love everything they did from '68 to '77.

[Enforcer]

I really want to hear what Sisco has to say about this group. I've always fancied Sisco a sort of kindred spirit to Ian Anderson.

[Root Doctor]

Originally Posted by Larry Nagel

I really want to hear what Sisco has to say about this group. I've always fancied Sisco a sort of kindred spirit to Ian Anderson.

I'm guessing that Gary holds the same opinion of Jethro Tull as me: godawful.

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by Root Doctor

I'm guessing that Gary holds the same opinion of Jethro Tull as me: godawful.

I thought Gary liked you.

[Root Doctor]

Originally Posted by Pete C

I thought Gary liked you.

You got me, Pete.

[BFrank]

I was a HUGE fan of everything up to "Passion Play". After that, they sort of lost direction and creativity.

Interestingly, Ian's most recent solo album, "Secret Language of Birds", is probably the best thing he has done since then.

[groover]

It's a shame that Rahsaan never forgave them for covering one of his tunes. He probably ultimately gained many more fans and sold many more recordings than he would if they'd respected his wishes and left his material alone.

[Brian Olewnick]

Originally Posted by groover

It's a shame that Rahsaan never forgave them for covering one of his tunes. He probably ultimately gained many more fans and sold many more recordings than he would if they'd respected his wishes and left his material alone.

Is that true that he (Rahsaan) objected to "Serenade for a Cuckoo" being on the first Tull record? Never heard that. Do you know how it came to pass? That was the first I'd ever heard of Kirk (didn't know any jazz when it came out and I was about 14) but the piece made an impression on me and when, a few years later, I came across Kirk, I said, "Oh yeah, that guy..."

[groover]

Brian, check out this interview with John Kruth, author of "Bright Moments", a Rahsaan Roland Kirk biography.



http://www.jerryjazzmusician.com/lin...saan_kirk.html



JK That's jealousy, and there is a lot of that. There are a lot of people that were intimidated by a guy that could play two horns at once. How are they going to compete with that? One of the things that George Wein (who put on the Newport Jazz Festivals) said was "How am I going to find anybody that can follow Kirk?" I think that he put him on the bill one night with a bunch of rock bands and one of the guys I interviewed said the rock guitarist Jeff Beck followed Kirk one night and they sounded like three nickels in a tin cup. So, of course there is going to be a lot of jealousy there.

Granted, Rahsaan was a highly charged individual who spoke out about stuff that he didn't think was happening, or that he thought was too commercial. He would come out and go after them. He was highly critical and that has some karma associated with it. Sometimes he was right and sometimes he wasn't. Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull loved Rahsaan. He recorded one of the songs that Rahsaan actually made some money off of. That was flattery there, but Kirk was pissed off because Anderson was making all the money off of one of his innovations. Ian Anderson, by the way, is a wonderful guy. Well-spoken, intelligent, and I think he really loved Rahsaan.

JJM Yes, Kirk was a bridge for a lot of people. He was a bridge to rock and roll for some people. Rahsaan was also one of the key people who bridged bop and free jazz…

[Brian Olewnick]

Thanks, groover. I thought maybe it was something under-the-table, ie that Kirk didn't know and/or receive royalties. Doesn't sound like it.

[groover]

Perhaps I shouldn't have used the phrase "respect his wishes", because I don't think Ian consulted Rahsaan before including the tune on "This Was", and if Rahsaan had been asked in advance, he may have felt differently. As it was, Rahsaan did profit from it, but he resented the fact that Tull profited even more. Ian brought Rahsaan to the attention of Tull fans, like us, who eventually also became Rahsaan fans, but Rahsaan did not live long enough to see much of the "Benefit".

[Captain Hate]

Originally Posted by Root Doctor

I'm guessing that Gary holds the same opinion of Jethro Tull as me: godawful.

If that means that you and Sisco think that Tull sucks, I'm with youze.

[frankiepop]

okay my thread...i went to this overrated pompous ass' concert where he ran around the stage gettin' paid to act like some fool doing the faggie glam rock thing in a pair tights with his little balls hangin' out...then runin up to the mic yelling...

"...snot running down his nose..."..

'nuff said..

[BFrank]

Well, when they first broke on the scene, there was no one like them - musically or on stage. A definite breath of fresh air. As I said earlier, by the time they finished "Passion Play" they had pretty much used up the schtick and it was time to move on.

I guess you had to be there.

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by groover

I don't think Ian consulted Rahsaan before including the tune on "This Was", and if Rahsaan had been asked in advance, he may have felt differently.

There would have been no reason for him to have, since no permission is required to perform or record a published song as long as royalties are paid. Rahsaan could have been resentful about the injustice of it all, but I hope he enjoyed the paycheck. Pianist Russ Freeman was thrilled with the windfall he got from Mariah Carey's recording of "The Wind."

[Frisco]

Originally Posted by BFrank

I was a HUGE fan of everything up to "Passion Play". After that, they sort of lost direction and creativity.
.

I'm with you, B. Loved "This Was" for it's raw energy and blues/jazz influence. Loved "Stand Up" for the same thing becoming more refined and bits of psychedelic influece coming through. Loved "Benefit" and thought it was perhaps their peak in terms of creativity. Liked "Aqualung" especially the smack on religion. Learned to like "Thick as a Brick" after a while. It all kind of paralelled what I thought about other bands in that same time period as well. The raw creativity and psychedelia of the late 60's giving way to refinement, then utter boredom.

[hearsay]

Originally Posted by Pete C

There would have been no reason for him to have, since no permission is required to perform or record a published song as long as royalties are paid. Rahsaan could have been resentful about the injustice of it all, but I hope he enjoyed the paycheck. Pianist Russ Freeman was thrilled with the windfall he got from Mariah Carey's recording of "The Wind."

I could be wrong, but I remember learning in a music business class I took that a composer has the right to permit or refuse the recording of his peice the first time, and after that anyone has the right to do it.

[frankiepop]

Originally Posted by BFrank

Well, when they first broke on the scene, there was no one like them - musically or on stage. A definite breath of fresh air. As I said earlier, by the time they finished "Passion Play" they had pretty much used up the schtick and it was time to move on.

I guess you had to be there.

i wasnt there but far too close...i think tull was pretty ozone alert day when they came to town....i think that tull, kansas, yes, elp, etc movement in rock was by and large ridiculous and awful...it almost destroyed rock and roll. it was the absolute worst era of rock.......

what red blooded american male was gonna sit down and listen to tull pontificate on like some ol' english school master gas bag...???

when they could instead flip on a scratched up iggy pop record and hear:

'i wanna be your dog'...

when it comes to rock and roll .... i want blood!

[Frisco]

Originally Posted by frankiepop

[FONT=Comic Sans MS]


i wasnt there but far too close...i think tull was pretty ozone alert day when they came to town....i think that tull, kansas, yes, elp, etc movement in rock was by and large ridiculous and awful...it almost destroyed rock and roll. it was the absolute worst era of rock....... [

Well now you're talking 70's rock, which JT was a part of, but their music goes back to the ones that BFrank and I mention. But I would agree. It was when bands like Kansas, Aerosmith, Boston, Foreigner, and Styx came to the forefront and were playing played on what was (from 1968-1973) a progressive rock & roll and free-form radio station that I almost jumped ship totally. Actually, I probably ended up missing a lot of good rock stuff as a result, immersing myself in Coltrane, Shepp, Art Ensemble, Mahavishnu, and well...still King Crimson and Soft Machine in the early to mid 70's.

[Root Doctor]

Originally Posted by Captain Hate

If that means that you and Sisco think that Tull sucks, I'm with youze.

Poor syntax aside, that was the point of my post. Anderson should be flogged for writing crap like this:

Let me bring you songs from the wood:
to make you feel much better than you could know.
Dust you down from tip to toe.
Show you how the garden grows.
Hold you steady as you go.
Join the chorus if you can:
it'll make of you an honest man.
Let me bring you love from the field:
poppies red and roses filled with summer rain.
To heal the wound and still the pain
that threatens again and again
as you drag down every lover's lane.
Life's long celebration's here.
I'll toast you all in penny cheer.
Let me bring you all things refined:
galliards and lute songs served in chilling ale.
Greetings well met fellow, hail!
I am the wind to fill your sail.
I am the cross to take your nail:
A singer of these ageless times.
With kitchen prose and gutter rhymes.
Songs from the wood make you feel much better.

[frankiepop]

oh ohoh and another thing

tull and ...all his pseudo-intellectualism bullshit!
give me break...anderson was so stoopid...
put on pair of jeans and a zappa tshirt
then just shut up!

[frankiepop]

priceless

[frankiepop]

i lovethis cover - have yet to hear the cd yet or much of it...

[Gentle Giant]

This is my favorite section from Thick as a Brick, which I think is a truly great recording (in no small part due to Barriemore Barlow's drumming):


See there! A son is born, and we pronounce him fit to fight.
There are black-heads on his shoulders, and he pees himself in the night.
We'll make a man of him, put him to trade
Teach him to play Monopoly and to sing in the rain.

The Poet and the painter casting shadows on the water --
as the sun plays on the infantry returning from the sea.
The do-er and the thinker: no allowance for the other --
as the failing light illuminates the mercenary's creed.

The home fire burning: the kettle almost boiling --
but the master of the house is far away.
The horses stamping -- their warm breath clouding
in the sharp and frosty morning of the day.

And the poet lifts his pen while the soldier sheaths his sword.

And the youngest of the family is moving with authority.
Building castles by the sea, he dares the tardy tide to wash them all aside.

The cattle quietly grazing at the grass down by the river
where the swelling mountain water moves onward to the sea:
the builder of the castles renews the age-old purpose
and contemplates the milking girl whose offer is his need.

The young men of the household have all gone into service
And are not to be expected for a year.
The innocent young master -- thoughts moving ever faster --
has formed the plan to change the man he seems.

And the poet sheaths his pen while the soldier lifts his sword.

And the oldest of the family is moving with authority.
Coming from across the sea, he challenges the son who puts him to the run.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Talking as one who just paid $50 for a DCC gold version of "Aqualung", I think that qualifies me as one who can't post a lot in an "Anti Jethro Tull Thread".

FWIW, who the hell cares what Ian Anderson did or didn't do on stage? Yeah, I saw the nuts-a-bulgin' dance at Boston Garden circa 1980 but all I cared was that they put on a great show. The music's more important than the performer. Ian's a flake. Like he's the only rock musician who's a flake??

"Aqualung" is a phenomenal album from start to finish. I enjoy spinning it still. The DCC gold CD, sadly out of print, is really the only version to get though. The currently available version is so shrill is can cause hearing damage.

BTW, if anyone has, or knows where they can get a DCC gold CD of Tull's "Original Masters", I'd gladly take it off your hands and pay you a pretty sum for your trouble. It's going for around $60 on eBay these days. A bit too much for me. As greatest hits packages go, this is a good one. I have the current CD version but the DCC version has the full 21 minute version of "Thick as a Brick" and a better overall sound.

Kevin

[groover]

Originally Posted by frankiepop

i lovethis cover - have yet to hear the cd yet or much of it...

Don't bother... you'll despise it. Tull requires a certain cultural and intellectual frame of reference to appreciate. It's obviously not for everyone.

[Jon Abbey]

Originally Posted by groover

Tull requires a certain cultural and intellectual frame of reference to appreciate.

yes, it requires you to suspend all normal critical faculties, and if you can create a mindset in yourself similar to being lobotomized, that's a big step in your journey towards becoming a Tullhead.

[frankiepop]

Originally Posted by groover
Tull requires a certain cultural and intellectual frame of reference to appreciate.

yea of adolescent intellectual level bullshit..

See there! A son is born, and we pronounce him fit to fight.
There are black-heads on his shoulders, and he pees himself in the night.
We'll make a man of him, put him to trade
Teach him to play Monopoly and to sing in the rain.

that is so stupid ... how embarrassing to post that....i mean if its good it aint the lyrics standing alone....to be impressed you'd gotta be thick as a brick..

okay im done i stop..no more

[groover]

Originally Posted by Jon Abbey

yes, it requires you to suspend all normal critical faculties, and if you can create a mindset in yourself similar to being lobotomized, that's a big step in your journey towards becoming a Tullhead.

Actually, that's a completely incorrect, moronic statement. But thanks for sharing.