The Rock & Roll Hall of Fame Thread

[Gentle Giant]

Because I have in-laws in Cleveland, I've been there a few times and I have to say, it really is worth checking out if you're in the vicinity. I wouldn't make a special trip from Anchorage, LA, Fort Lauderdale, or Orono just for that, but it's better than it was when it first opened.

How they decide who gets inducted, however, is just a crime. There are many who have been left out, and they aren't doing enough to make up for the fact that they overlooked session musicians for several years. Here's the latest:

The ballots for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame's class of 2006 inductees were mailed out to voters in mid-September, and they included perennial nominees Black Sabbath, Lynyrd Skynyrd, the Sex Pistols, the Stooges, Grandmaster Flash & the Furious Five, J. Geils Band, John Mellencamp, the Patti Smith Group, Chic and Joe Tex.

On the eclectic ballot for the first time this year are Miles Davis, Cat Stevens, Blondie, the Paul Butterfield Band, the Dave Clark Five and the Sir Douglas Quintet. Although artists who first released records in 1980 were eligible for the ballot this year, the nominating committe overlooked artists from that group entirely.

This marks the eighth time Black Sabbath has been nominated, the seventh time Lynyrd Skynyrd has been up for induction, and the the fifth time for both the Sex Pistols and the Stooges. The nominees are picked by a 70-member committee of rock historians, journalists and label execs, with an international voting body of 700 music industry members making the final decision.

The five to seven nominees that receive the most votes will be announced before the end of the year and be inducted into the Cleveland-based hall and museum in a ceremony in New York sometime early next year. - E! Online

[Squaredancecalling Steve]

Glad to see Joe Tex get a long overdue nod, but WHERE IS MARY WELLS??

Cat Stevens should be banned because of the Rushdie business, and because his songs were a bunch of limp-wristed shit.

[Captain Hate]

Originally Posted by Squaredancecalling Steve

Cat Stevens should be banned because of the Rushdie business, and because his songs were a bunch of limp-wristed shit.

If Cat got some of his Islamobuds to blow up the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame (preferably with Gentle Giant not in it) I might be more positively disposed toward him. However his music would still absolutely blow.

Nah, Cat did some decent tunes. Nothing earth shattering, but decent none the less.


And no, I'm not a fan of his.

But his radio friendly Peace Train was a good tune.

[Rob Damen]

Seeing pieces of Otis Redding's plane ...

And the glasses John Lennon wore the moment he was shot ...

Are just a bit much!

Cheers,

Rob

[Root Doctor]

I'm gratified to see the belated nod to Sir Doug. It's about friggin' time.

[Gentle Giant]

Originally Posted by Gentle Giant

The ballots for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame's class of 2006 inductees were mailed out to voters in mid-September, and they included perennial nominees Black Sabbath, Lynyrd Skynyrd, the Sex Pistols, the Stooges, Grandmaster Flash & the Furious Five, J. Geils Band, John Mellencamp, the Patti Smith Group, Chic and Joe Tex.

Minus Mellenball and Chic, all of these guys deserve to be inducted, so I say let's get 'em in before we start working on first-ballot nominees.

[Gentle Giant]

Interestingly, this column in support of Black Sabbath's induction, is by a black woman (not the typical BS demographic), who also is my favorite local writer. She makes some very good points.

LIFE IN THE POP LANE
It's time for the rock hall of fame to stop snubbing true pioneers

By Renee Graham, Globe Staff | September 27, 2005

Once again, Black Sabbath is among the nominees for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and once again, the band will probably fall short of induction. Eligible since 1995, the British quartet led by Ozzy Osbourne has been overlooked year after year, despite the irrefutable fact that, for all intents and purposes, it invented heavy metal.

Perhaps Ozzy was right when he called the selection to the rock hall ''meaningless." Back in 1999, he said, ''Just take our name off the list. Save the ink. Forget about us." Since the hall's voters are, according to its official website, ''an international voting of about 1,000 rock experts," and not fans, Ozzy said their ballots are ''irrelevant."

Certainly, Ozzy's comments can be dismissed as sour grapes -- who wouldn't publicly rip being consistently barred from an institution designed to commemorate the best and brightest? But as the years go on and the omissions become more egregious, Ozzy's observations now seem pertinent.

At this point, it seems likely that some of the bands Sabbath profoundly influenced, such as Metallica, will be honored with an invitation into the rock hall before those who actually pioneered the genre. Eligible in 2008, Metallica is a virtual shoo-in as a first ballot inductee. And yes, while the San Francisco band has sold far more records and remains a vital force in contemporary music, Metallica wouldn't exist without Sabbath.

In the early years of the hall, it was so easy --the inductions were no-brainers. There were 1950s rockers such as Chuck Berry, Fats Domino, and Elvis Presley, Motown vets like the Supremes, Temptations, and Stevie Wonder, and British invaders such as the Who, Stones, and Beatles.

Now, there seems to be nothing but hand-wringing, teeth-gnashing, and general wackiness. That brings us to Miles Davis, the seminal jazz trumpeter and composer, among this year's nominees. Yes, Davis boldly fused jazz and rock on such classics as ''Bitches Brew," and garnered an audience that usually ignored jazz. Still, he wasn't a rock musician by any means, and his nomination is both a stretch and a head-scratcher.

Another 2006 nominee is Blondie, the most commercially successful band to emerge from New York's downtown music scene in the late 1970s. Among other things, Blondie released ''Rapture," which may have been the first rap song many people ever heard. Of course, that number one hit from its 1980 album, ''Autoamerican," wasn't really a rap song at all. Still, even with its nonsensical rhymes about a man from Mars and edible cars, Debbie Harry's awkward and endearing nod toward New York's then-nascent hip-hop culture was the first song with what could be (loosely) identified as rap.

Now, Blondie may get into the hall before fellow nominees Grandmaster Flash & the Furious Five -- the hip-hop pioneers Harry shouts out on ''Rapture," with the lines, ''Flash is fast, flash is cool." This is the second time the group, which created such songs as ''The Message" and ''White Lines (Don't Do It)," has been included on the hall's short list, and like Black Sabbath, it may be a long time before it gets in, if ever. It seems inevitable that rappers will some day be inducted, but later selections of Run-DMC, the Beastie Boys, or Public Enemy will be tainted if they're admitted before Flash. (It's also worth noting that Grandmaster Flash & the Furious Five is also the most pertinent link between rap's Bronx block party origins and its development into a dominating cultural force.)

More and more, the rock hall is turning into an exclusive country club, which has very little to do with the heart of rock 'n' roll. While the institution's founders claim it was established to ''recognize the contributions of those who have had a significant impact on the evolution, development and perpetuation" of rock, the hall will be, as Osbourne has already said, meaningless if its voters continually overlook the significant impact of innovative groups such as Black Sabbath and Grandmaster Flash & the Furious Five. Here's hoping they can finally right two wrongs in a single year.

[Gary Sisco]

Cracks me up that Sahm, who actually plays rock and roll, is relegated to the "eclectic" division.

Too much irony there.

Otherwise, I have to say it's a boomer snore fest, as usual. More navel gazing from the navelest gazing generation in history.

[Chris D]

I have no desire to sniff Mick Jagger's jock.

[garjen]

Vote for your favorite deserving but overlooked artists into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame at:
http://www.rateitall.com/topic.aspx?...=2529&show=all
or here's a shorter URL at:
http://supergroup.netfirms.com/rockrollhallfame.htm

The top 20 vote-getters at this point are:
1. Van Halen
2. Rush
3. Lynyrd Skynyrd
4. Blondie
5. Dire Straits
6. Doobie Brothers
7. Peter Gabriel (solo)
8. Chicago
9. Pete Townshend (solo)
10. Black Sabbath
11. Pat Benatar
12. Ben E. King
13. Alice Cooper
14. Deep Purple
15. The Cars
16. Heart
17. Yes
18. Joe Cocker
19. Genesis
20. Moody Blues

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by Gentle Giant

Minus Mellenball and Chic, all of these guys deserve to be inducted, so I say let's get 'em in before we start working on first-ballot nominees.

Just because you might not like disco or Chic in particular doesn't minimize their centrality to a certain era. I'd say they're more deserving than SqDC's Mary Wells.

[Gentle Giant]

Originally Posted by Pete C

Just because you might not like disco or Chic in particular doesn't minimize their centrality to a certain era. I'd say they're more deserving than SqDC's Mary Wells.

I don't necessarily want to spat about one artist over another, but as you say, Chic's impact was confined to a discrete era, and had no lasting influence. A band like Black Sabbath spanned several eras, and its influence was enormous. I'm more than happy for Chic or Donna Summer or KC & the Sunshine band to get their nods, but there's too much unfinished business to take care of first.

[Gentle Giant]

One person who needs to get in and may never do so is Al Kooper, an interesting newsbyte on whom I just saw in the Globe this morning:

Sideman extraordinaire Al Kooper is staying busy. The Somerville resident is just back from Nashville, where he played organ on Frank Black's new disc, the follow-up to ''Honeycomb." ''The producer [Jon Tiven] called me and asked if I'd come down," said Kooper. ''I don't remember much about [Black's] songs except they were bizarre." In addition to Kooper, Black also enlisted session aces Steve Cropper, Spooner Oldham, David Hood, the Band's Levon Helm, and Buddy Miller. The former Pixie has said his ''Nashville" period was inspired in part by ''Blonde on Blonde," by Bob Dylan, which Kooper also played on. ''It's probably my crowning achievement," said Al. And what did he make of Mr. Black? ''I'm sort of disappointed -- I never even met him," he said.

[Root Doctor]

Originally Posted by Gentle Giant

A band like Black Sabbath spanned several eras, and its influence was enormous.

For zonked suburban teens, Sabbath is the soundtrack that chronicles the shift from Quaaludes to Oxycontin.

[Gary Sisco]

Good one, Roots.

I still like to put the first one on now and then, turned up loud, just to hear the opening bell. But that's enough of a hit, every now and then. When I was dj'ing in clubs, I used to use them sometimes as an opener (way up loud) and then seque to something else once the bell part was done.

[Root Doctor]

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

Good one, Roots.

I still like to put the first one on now and then, turned up loud, just to hear the opening bell. But that's enough of a hit, every now and then. When I was dj'ing in clubs, I used to use them sometimes as an opener (way up loud) and then seque to something else once the bell part was done.

My senior year in high school I grappled with a number laced with Angel Dust while a friend tried to expose me to the wonders of Sabbath. Even under those seemingly perfect conditions they struck me as unbelievably lame.

[Gary Sisco]

Quaaludes is definitely the way to go with Sabbath.

I'd give the artist an award for the first album cover, though. That's the best thing about Black Sabbath, in my book.

[Chris D]

They were a decent live band in the beginning. Iommi's claw hand was furious.

[Root Doctor]

Originally Posted by Chris D

They were a decent live band in the beginning. Iommi's claw hand was furious.

I'll have to take your word for it, Chris. I'd rather hear the hackings of a tuberculosis ward than listen to that rhythm section.

[Gary Sisco]

Hey, just so happens I have a field recording of t.b. ward hackings......

[Root Doctor]

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

Hey, just so happens I have a field recording of t.b. ward hackings......

It wouldn't start with a pealing bell, by any chance?

[Gary Sisco]

No but I could segue into it from there ....

[Mingus]

Originally Posted by Gentle Giant

A band like Black Sabbath spanned several eras....

probably the single worst thing they could have done.

[Gentle Giant]

Whether you like Black Sabbath is not the issue. You can't deny they were extremely influential, successful, and deserving of being in the R&RHOF.

[Mingus]

Originally Posted by Gentle Giant

Whether you like Black Sabbath is not the issue. You can't deny they were extremely influential, successful, and deserving of being in the R&RHOF.

I'm sorry, but I can.

The only thing that may apply is "successful". Infuencial? maybe to Spinal Tap, but their schtick is so much more Theater than music (Rock & Roll or otherwise).

Not to single out these poor slobs, but the whole R&R "Hall of Fame" is nothing more than Pop fodder for People magazine and the like.

JIMHO of course...... ;-)

[Sergio Zamora]

Originally Posted by Gentle Giant

...Chic's impact was confined to a discrete era, and had no lasting influence.

Are you serious? You ever go to a club?

[Captain Hate]

Originally Posted by Mingus

Not to single out these poor slobs, but the whole R&R "Hall of Fame" is nothing more than Pop fodder for People magazine and the like.

*Clasp*. You bring the molotov cocktail, I'll bring the axe.

[Gentle Giant]

Originally Posted by Mingus

I'm sorry, but I can.

The only thing that may apply is "successful". Infuencial? maybe to Spinal Tap, but their schtick is so much more Theater than music (Rock & Roll or otherwise).

Not to single out these poor slobs, but the whole R&R "Hall of Fame" is nothing more than Pop fodder for People magazine and the like.

JIMHO of course...... ;-)

According to AMG:

"Black Sabbath has been so influential in the development of heavy metal rock music as to be a defining force in the style. The group took the blues-rock sound of late '60s acts like Cream, Blue Cheer, and Vanilla Fudge to its logical conclusion, slowing the tempo, accentuating the bass, and emphasizing screaming guitar solos and howled vocals full of lyrics expressing mental anguish and macabre fantasies. If their predecessors clearly came out of an electrified blues tradition, Black Sabbath took that tradition in a new direction, and in so doing helped give birth to a musical style that continued to attract millions of fans decades later."

[Gentle Giant]

Originally Posted by Sergio Zamora

Are you serious? You ever go to a club?

Actually, no. And I'm proud of it.

Ian Hunter's (another guy who should be inducted - twice) take on the Studio 54 scene:

We Gotta Get Out Of Here
by Ian Hunter

It’s such a small town rodeo
Such famous people here, with nowhere to go
Well it don’t get to me, I think it’s the pits
I got no friends, I wanna split.

The daily papers seek a desperate face
The television cameras join in the chase
It’s much fun interviewing urban decay
I grab the microphone away

(dance) no! (dance) no! (dance) no! (dance) no!

We gotta get out of here
We gotta get out of here right now
We gotta get out of here
We gotta get out of here right now

Hey rock and roll feel the holes in my brain
I promise you I’ll never come here again
It’s all so sad, what a waste of a night
Cause nothing’s wrong, but nothing’s right (hey)

So don’t get along, out of my way
I’m not a robot, I’ve got something to say
It’s such a joke, are you ready to go
Here comes that beat again, oh oh oh oh

(dance) no! (dance) no! (dance) no! (dance) no!
We gotta get out of here
We gotta get out of here right now
We gotta get out of here
We gotta get out of here right now
We gotta get out of, we gotta get out
We gotta get out of here right now
We gotta get out of, we gotta get out
We gotta get out of here right now
[repeat while Ellen Foley speaks]

(Oh please I don’t wanna go home yet
Come on, can’t you do anything I wanna do?
Lets dance, come on please, just once for me
I never get to do anything like this
You’re such a drag, you know that?
Everything for you, everything for you, nothing for me, right
What are we gonna do? go home and watch the super bowl
Re-runs of the Mohammad Ali, uh, Marlene Dietrich fight, what?
There must be somebody here who wants to dance with me
There must be a lot of people here who would like to dance with me, you know
That?
Come on, one, two, three, four - I’ll jump right up onto the floor, come on

Listen this place gets really good, this place gets really.....
I heard that the that the the spoon comes down and the moon comes down and the stars and all sorts of great stuff happens in a little while).