No Direction Home: The Bob Dylan Thread

Gentle Giant · September-27th-2005, 09:26 AM

This is to discuss the PBS American Masters special and, in general, that singular cultural phenomenon known as Bob Dylan.

Anyone catch the first part last night? Some great clips from the '66 tour interspersed with some remarkable recollections from well- and little-known people from his past. I was also impressed with Dylan's own articulate testimony. These may be the only interviews he's taken seriously in his entire career.

A little sad to see a wasting Allen Ginsburg, but it was powerful to see him get so emotional when recalling his first exposure to Dylan's music. Liam Clancy, as well, had some wonderful stories. I was unaware that he was such a fixture in the Village.

Seeing the interviews with Pete Seeger (which must have been done a few years ago because I believe he's in much worse shape today) made me thing about what an enormous loss it will be when he passes, which I wouldn't bet would be more than a couple of years.

Interesting to see just how subservient Joan Baez was to him. Perhaps because of the times, but you think of her as a strong feminist, someone who was a bigger star than he was (though she was peaking while he was surging), and she's all but bowing to him on stage.

I think the real sizzle will be in tonight's show. Moving through the Holy Trinity of Bringing It All Back Home, Highway 61 Revisited, and Blonde On Blonde will be a trip.

Oy, such a mensch!

Monte Smith · September-27th-2005, 09:33 AM

The initial musical number, with Dylan playing with The Band, was painful. Bob was reaching for notes in a very offensive manner. I didn't know he could sing that badly. I switched away for most of the rest of the episode, but did catch a younger Dylan singing with Peter, Paul, and Mary and Joan Baez and some others at the end of the show. Also painful. Everyone that I saw interviewed about Bob had a different opinion than I did. I think Bob Dylan is a cultural lodestone, sure, and a great talent. But they think he's the Second Coming. The cliches were a little embarrassing. Bob Dylan is "the voice of our generation," "in touch with the Jungian collective unconscious," and "able to say all the things I wanted to say but couldn't find the words." Hagiography of the Boomerest sort. Guess you had to be there.

Chris D · September-27th-2005, 09:47 AM

Guess so. Pipe down, Junior.

I loved when Dylan and the Hawks were riding in the car after one of the Great Britain shows. "Why do they boo so much? ... I can't tune when they boo. ... Why do the tickets sell out so fast when all they want to do is boo?" Also loved when they were ripping him and he dishes out "Ballad of a Thin Man."

Monte Smith · September-27th-2005, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris D

Guess so. Pipe down, Junior.

Aye-aye. I guess if I'm going to call the man a "cultural lodestone" then I should remain quiet about other people's cliches.

Chris D · September-27th-2005, 09:55 AM

Well, yes, it's clear you've been through all of F. Scott Fitzgerald's books. You're very well read.
It's well known.

Monte Smith · September-27th-2005, 09:58 AM

I'm Mr. Smith to you, not Jones.

Gentle Giant · September-27th-2005, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monte Smith

The initial musical number, with Dylan playing with The Band, was painful. Bob was reaching for notes in a very offensive manner. I didn't know he could sing that badly. I switched away for most of the rest of the episode, but did catch a younger Dylan singing with Peter, Paul, and Mary and Joan Baez and some others at the end of the show. Also painful.

It's beyond me how someone, anyone, presumably intelligent, with a modicum of musical taste and interest, can continue, in this day and age, to dismiss Dylan because of his voice. That's like criticizing Martin Luther King because he was short. What is undeniable is the magnitude of the man's impact, artistically, politically, and culturally.

Pete C · September-27th-2005, 11:07 AM

Interesting film, except for all that crappy white folk music.

Pete C · September-27th-2005, 11:16 AM

Actually, I could live without Odetta too. And she always turned up at political events and WBAI fundraisers and the like over the years. Corny, man.

bluenoter · September-27th-2005, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete C

Actually, I could live without Odetta too. And she always turned up at political events and WBAI fundraisers and the like over the years. Corny, man.

Get out of here!

I know her work only during a certain early period. What's corny?

Chris D · September-27th-2005, 11:36 AM

Saw Odetta in a little bar in the late '80s. A powerful presence, and she still had the voice.

Surfer · September-27th-2005, 12:02 PM

Good stuff. Cinematography, stills, interview footage with "Bobby".

I liked the alternate version of Hard Rain (I have a version I downlaoded from a Toronto TV Studio in '63 (???) that is revelatory. He speeds up the tune, flattens his delivery, and the chorus is restrained, the high note almost painful, sounds like a true prophet in wide-eyed shock from the apocalypse.

The footage from the "Royal Albert Hall" or whatever it was was stunning. Hilarious interviews with the locals afterwards. I'm sure they love being captured for eternity. "He's prostituting himself, is what he's doing!"

Once they got into the album era, I was a bit disappointed to hear only studio versions of a lot of the songs. I was hoping for more achival bootleg stuff we dont hear very often like:

Paths Of Victory
Kingsport Town
No More Auction Block
Moonshiner
Acoustic Piano version of Blowing In The Wind
Man On The Street
He Was A Friend Of Mine

And I dont want to hear any more of Joan thanks.

Overall, pretty fuckin awesome.

Surfer · September-27th-2005, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete C

Interesting film, except for all that crappy white folk music.

Dave Van Ronk cracks me up. Cracks himself up too. I could do with a little less Dave Van Ronk.

Pete C · September-27th-2005, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surfer

Dave Van Ronk cracks me up. Cracks himself up too. I could do with a little less Dave Van Ronk.

Looking at his teeth made me want to puke.

Pete C · September-27th-2005, 12:09 PM

And are there actually people who think Joan Baez had a "good voice"?

Valerie · September-27th-2005, 12:11 PM

must say straight away that i have never been a fan of bob dylan's. his voice is more of an irritant than anything else, although i can certainly appreciate some of the tunes he wrote. i did, however, watch last night, mainly because i was "there" in the village in the early 60s when he was appearing at the cafe wha, the gaslight, gerde's folk city, etc. in fact, i lived for awhile a few doors down from the gaslight and diagonally across the street from the wha. i even worked at the cafe wha in '61 but don't remember dylan performing there. i do remember a very young bill cosby passing the basket after sets and being thrilled to come away with $20 after a saturday night's sets!! so, long story short, i was actually watching to see the village scene during that time and some of the other folks who were around. sorry they didn't show more but maybe tonight.

Frisco · September-27th-2005, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete C

Interesting film, except for all that crappy white folk music.

Pete, I know you're kidding. I'm not really huge with folk music, but hearing those white folk fighting for Labor Unions, Equal Rights, and many aspects of daily life is an inspiration.

Pete C · September-27th-2005, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valerie

maybe tonight.

I think by tonight the world is his village.

Surfer · September-27th-2005, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete C

Looking at his teeth made me want to puke.

He seemed pretty pissed about House Of The Rising Sun 40 years later too.

His teeth are disgusting.

How do you feel about Dave Van Ronk's teeth, Valerie?

Surfer · September-27th-2005, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete C

And are there actually people who think Joan Baez had a "good voice"?

I used to have a bootleg of Dylan from Halloween 63 with Joan singing with him in the second set. I had to get rid of it because she annoyed me so much.

"I'm wearing my Bob Dylan mask tonight." - Bob Dylan

Pete C · September-27th-2005, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frisco

Pete, I know you're kidding. I'm not really huge with folk music, but hearing those white folk fighting for Labor Unions, Equal Rights, and many aspects of daily life is an inspiration.

I wish they made good music for a good cause.

Monte Smith · September-27th-2005, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gentle Giant

It's beyond me how someone, anyone, presumably intelligent, with a modicum of musical taste and interest, can continue, in this day and age, to dismiss Dylan because of his voice.

I'm not complaining about Dylan's normal voice; the performance very early on in the program, where Dylan was performing "Like a Rolling Stone" with the band, was awful. He was shrieking like a cat in heat to reach the notes. This was below and beyond his normal eccentric vocals, which I have no problem with. Same was true of the performance shown later in the program of a much younger Dylan again struggling and not making it musically. He sounds much better on the records I own, even the live versions. These were just bad performances which I, no Scorsese, would not have included.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete C

Interesting film, except for all that crappy white folk music.

Hah!

Surfer · September-27th-2005, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monte Smith

I'm not complaining about Dylan's normal voice; the performance very early on in the program, where Dylan was performing "Like a Rolling Stone" with the band, was awful. He was shrieking like a cat in heat to reach the notes. This was below and beyond his normal eccentric vocals, which I have no problem with. Same was true of the performance shown later in the program of a much younger Dylan again struggling and not making it musically. He sounds much better on the records I own, even the live versions. These were just bad performances which I, no Scorsese, would not have included.

Hah!

FWIW, I really liked that version of Rolling Stone. Then the abrupt cutaway to the snow laden trees and silence.

Valerie · September-27th-2005, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete C

And are there actually people who think Joan Baez had a "good voice"?

i don't know about her voice but i do know that i'd really love to look like she does now!! gorgeous woman!

Valerie · September-27th-2005, 01:42 PM

aside from dylan's less than non-singing voice, what bothers me is that i can hardly ever understand the lyrics with his slurring and mumbling. very frustrating, especially since often the words are well worth hearing!

Pete C · September-27th-2005, 01:43 PM

Valerie, would you like to buy some Bukka White records?

Gentle Giant · September-27th-2005, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surfer

I used to have a bootleg of Dylan from Halloween 63 with Joan singing with him in the second set. I had to get rid of it because she annoyed me so much.

"I'm wearing my Bob Dylan mask tonight." - Bob Dylan

1964, and now an official release:

Gentle Giant · September-27th-2005, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valerie

must say straight away that i have never been a fan of bob dylan's. his voice is more of an irritant than anything else, although i can certainly appreciate some of the tunes he wrote. i did, however, watch last night, mainly because i was "there" in the village in the early 60s when he was appearing at the cafe wha, the gaslight, gerde's folk city, etc. in fact, i lived for awhile a few doors down from the gaslight and diagonally across the street from the wha. i even worked at the cafe wha in '61 but don't remember dylan performing there. i do remember a very young bill cosby passing the basket after sets and being thrilled to come away with $20 after a saturday night's sets!! so, long story short, i was actually watching to see the village scene during that time and some of the other folks who were around. sorry they didn't show more but maybe tonight.

Have you read this book? It's very informative and seems extremely well-researched:

Surfer · September-27th-2005, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gentle Giant

1964, and now an official release:

Aha. I think I knew that. Dont need it.

What I do need: Real Basement Tapes, and Real Bootleg Series (the stuff still not released).

Surfer · September-27th-2005, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valerie

aside from dylan's less than non-singing voice, what bothers me is that i can hardly ever understand the lyrics with his slurring and mumbling. very frustrating, especially since often the words are well worth hearing!

That's the best part Valerie. Its like saying "Monk would be great if he could stay on the beat, and not "bend" his notes so much."