Thelonious Monk Quartet with John Coltrane - At Carnegie Hall

clarke68 · September-27th-2005, 05:19 PM

I've only given this one listen, but so far it lives up to the hype for me at least.

It's almost scary how well these two play together. The way I understand it, Monk wasn't exactly the easiest band leader to work with, but Coltrane shows himself the consummate sideman. He doesn't shy away from the spotlight, but somehow always manages fit in while propelling the group's energy level forward.

It's clearly a Monk concert, but at times I suspect Coltrane was having a better night. Monk has his brilliantly swinging moments, to be sure, but at times he plays with a spaciousness that could be mistaken for meandering (or, he meanders in a way that could be mistaken for spaciousness). By the time "Sweet & Lovely" rolls around, however, (2nd tune of the 2nd set) there's no question that everyone in the band is firing on all cylinders.

Only two tunes appear both here and on Thelonious Monk With John Coltrane: "Nutty" and "Epistrophy". This live take on "Nutty" has a good deal more energy than the studio version, owing largely (I think) to Shadow Wilson's emphatic drumming. "Epistrophy", given a full horn-section treatment on the studio date, is in stripped-down, kickin' form here.

Other highlights include an enthralling duet of "Monk's Mood" which opens the evening, and "Blue Monk": 'Trane plays the head much more lyrically than whatever version I'm used to, but ends up ripping the tune a new one in his solo.

Sound quality, while the dynamic range and frequency response are compressed (typical of live recordings of the era), it does have an sweet, warm midrange, and is so much better than Live at the Five Spot it's not even worth criticizing. I'm pretty sure I'll never listen to Five Spot again.

Nice job, Library of Congress...what else do you have up your sleeve?

Xavier · September-29th-2005, 08:57 PM

Just listened the first time through. Coltrane has a lighter, more agile sound than on the Coltrane/Monk studio recordings - he's intensely "on." This is great Monk too. Shadow Wilson on drums is also a treat. This CD is as good as the hype.

BrianL1 · October-2nd-2005, 11:17 PM

Just curious, are they copy protecting this in the U.S.?

It is in Canada, first Blue Note I've seen where EMI has done this.

Clay Fink · October-3rd-2005, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianL1

Just curious, are they copy protecting this in the U.S.?

It is in Canada, first Blue Note I've seen where EMI has done this.

Just ripped it onto my iPod, so I don't think so.

clinthopson · October-3rd-2005, 12:37 PM

The twofer with Monk & Tran and Diz and Bird just arrived. I think I'll wait until I get home to listen. I'm excited.

Darryl G. Thomas · October-3rd-2005, 07:38 PM

Clint,

Are you talking about the Bird and Diz live recording from '45? It and the Monk/Trane disc arrived on the same day. Listened to both last week. Both are excellent! The only complaint I have is with Symphony Sid's running commentary.

And Sid Catlett sits in for Max Roach for a couple of cuts and he was the bomb.

The Monk and Trane disc was great. If I run into the cat who found the tapes here in DC I'll have to give him a big hug.

Freetoojazz · October-3rd-2005, 08:16 PM

I bought this cd (Monk / Coltrane) last friday. I listen it more than six times this weekend. Blue Note and EMI made a good job. The sound is good. Monk and Coltrane are playing with a lot of sensuality. It is a very very good record. Hope they will find more like this.

Felix · October-3rd-2005, 08:24 PM

My first reaction when I heard this was: "Man, how many notes could Coltrane stuff into a chorus?" I think the contrast between his very active playing and Monk's scarce comping is what made that band so great. Anyway, I'll pick this up as soon as I see it.

clinthopson · October-4th-2005, 12:07 PM

Darryl,

Yep.

What a yutz Symphony Sid was! Dizzy "Jillespie?" Really.

But hearing Diz, Bird and Haig take more than one chorus is very nice. You're right, Catlett just roars.

The Monk, Coltrane disc is a miracle. It ws a perfect match. Shadow Wilson's drumming is a real eyeopener, especially his cymbal work.

The liner notes are prety repititious, six writers saying basically the same thing. Wait, Akiri Bakara (sp) is completely incoherent.

Both of these discs are essential.

JPF · October-4th-2005, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clinthopson

Darryl,

The liner notes are prety repititious, six writers saying basically the same thing. Wait, Akiri Bakara (sp) is completely incoherent.

What were they thinking, having Amiri Baraka (in reality, hack poet Leroi Jones) contribute notes? The guy is not only a bad writer, he's been known for years as a vicious racist and anti-Semite. What was the matter, Louis Farrakhan not available?

Ennis Snavely · October-4th-2005, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPF

What were they thinking, having Amiri Baraka (in reality, hack poet Leroi Jones) contribute notes? The guy is not only a bad writer, he's been known for years as a vicious racist and anti-Semite. What was the matter, Louis Farrakhan not available?

I agree with your description of Jones/Baraka; I long ago lost respect for the guy. His piece, however, is at least entertaining, unlike Herr Crouch's essay. Crouch drains the joy out of everything he writes about.

All that said, this is an incredable find. I love it. BTW, I hear that the Ray Charles sets from that same concert have Ed Blackwell on drums. The Rollins set is supposed to be good too (well, why would expect anything else from Sonny in 1957?).

de Selby · October-8th-2005, 09:14 AM

I got this a couple of weeks ago. Great! I love Coltrane's entry on Monk's Mood, just sneaking in unannounced, as it were...

I'd like to hear more of the second version of Epistrophy! It's really going some. Did the tape run out, or was it just used as a short set closer?

Nate Dorward · October-8th-2005, 09:24 AM

It was Monk's themesong which he often used to close every set, occasionally playing it at full length but more often just briefly. For instance on the Quartet/Big Band 2CD set there are 4 different short versions of it, ending each set.

de Selby · October-8th-2005, 11:01 AM

I know: same on the It Club and Jazz Workshop sets, although if it's just a closer it's usually just the theme, and only about a minute long. I was just wondering if anyone knew why this particular version was faded. I for one would have liked to hear every available second of this date!

clinthopson · October-10th-2005, 11:40 AM

According to what I've read, they ran out of tape.

littlewing · October-12th-2005, 08:29 AM

I'm Sorry But I think this album is noting new. Considering the Monk-Coltrane[Prestige] and Monk's famous albums worked with coltrane in 50's, Carnegie hall concert is a disappointing result as new finding. there is no advance in monk and coltrane's styles and remarkble palying.

Felix · October-12th-2005, 11:28 AM

I couldn't disagree more, littlewing. First of all, several of the tunes on the Carnegie Hall set were not on either the studio albums or the Five Spot tape that was unearthed a few years ago (and is part of the Blue Note box): "Evidence", "Bye-Ya", "Sweet and Lovely" and "Blue Monk" are therefore tunes we'd never heard Coltrane play before. Secondly, I don't know what sort of "advance" you want to hear in tapes that are contemporary to the ones we already know. I mean, we know how the group sounded, it's just nice to have a more complete picture. They're not gonna sound like Cecil Taylor! Plus, it shows how the group sounded live, and gives a better idea of the role of Abdul-Malik, and espacially Wilson, who never sounded that clear, IMO. Also, you have to consider that the Monk-Coltrane album on Jazzland has only three quartet tunes, "Monk's Music" is a larger band record, and the Five Spot tapes have awful sound, and were apparently done after Coltrane's official stay with Monk. Therefore, two almost complete sets from that legendary band, in their working period, and with such great sound quality, is a major find.

Squaredancecalling Steve · October-12th-2005, 11:48 AM

I'm with Felix. Also, the Jazzland album was recorded at the beginning of Trane's period with Monk's group, the Carnegie Hall Concert several months later, and I think Coltrane sounds much more comfortable with the material and group, and brings more to it.

clinthopson · October-12th-2005, 11:49 AM

littlewing's post is obviously an attempt to rile up folks.

It offers nothing substantial except some half-assed opinions.

I have everything available with Monk/Coltrane and the concert fills in some big gaps.

Gary Sisco · October-12th-2005, 04:50 PM

I just ordered it and wouldn't think of being without it. I'm looking forward to it very much.

Steve Reynolds · October-12th-2005, 05:51 PM

nice to say that I will be buying this

John L · October-13th-2005, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlewing

I'm Sorry But I think this album is noting new. Considering the Monk-Coltrane[Prestige] and Monk's famous albums worked with coltrane in 50's, Carnegie hall concert is a disappointing result as new finding. there is no advance in monk and coltrane's styles and remarkble palying.

What famous albums with Coltrane in the 1950s? Only three tracks with the quartet were made in the studio. The only two albums that Coltrane appears on are Monk's Mood (made before most of their work together) and Monk-
Coltrane. There is the live recording from 1958, but that is in very poor sound. What "advance" in Monk or Coltrane's style are we looking for in 1957?

Pete C · October-13th-2005, 08:30 AM

John, you're thinking of Monk's Music, not Monk's Mood. That was recorded before Trane really showed "advances" in his playing from being in the school of Monk. Monk's playing was so advanced by the late 40's that it was left to others to take off from there.

Maybe littlewing was hoping they'd both sound like Hendrix.

John L · October-13th-2005, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete C

John, you're thinking of Monk's Music, not Monk's Mood.

Yes, sorry!

Felix · October-13th-2005, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John L

What "advance" in Monk or Coltrane's style are we looking for in 1957?

My point exactly.

Gary Sisco · October-13th-2005, 11:30 AM

In short, no point.

Clay Fink · October-13th-2005, 01:20 PM

I'm with Little Wing: this is second rate stuff. Monk and Trane never, ever had the goods IMHO.

Clay Fink · October-13th-2005, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

In short, no point.

Except on your head...

kenny weir · October-13th-2005, 08:45 PM

Just got this in the mail; listening on the phones in the office. Incredible. What a joy. What great sound; can't wait to get this baby home and let rip.

Gary Sisco · October-14th-2005, 09:21 AM

Piss off, Snidely.