Troubling thoughts

[sonic1]

Is it just me, or does anyone else find the state of the US very troubling right now.

I hate to dig up this subject, but I keep thinking about Dan Rather who lost his job over criticising the president.

Whatever you believe about his documentation, most of what he said was true. Most of the documentation was fine. Take away the so-called sketchy evidence from the now infamous broadcast and the theme of it was still true. Bush's military record has never been redeemed in any way.

But Dan Rather lost his job. So much for freedom of the press.

And if Dan Rather deserved to lose his job over that one document. Then why have not most of the press who reported about the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, the nuclear material bought in africa by Hussein, and all the other WMD myths being fired. We all know now those were lies. And many people have died over those lies and faulty evidence.

What is more, the jist of those reports were wrong. There was no significant evidence of weapons of mass destruction, worth invading Iraq over, found.

Dan Rather was reporting the truth. Bush has a sketchy military record, still.

Is this the freedom we are trying to give the middle east?

This is the press alright, Russian style.

I was also thinking about how now, because of the patriot act, people can be picked up by the government, put in a camp, and not given the same rights that anyone else would have in terms of due process. My friend Lanie is dating an arab who has been missing a few friend since last year. They are just plain missing. Two people, gone, families don't know where they are, friends don't know where they are, they are just gone. And if you know kids from Saudi, they don't usually even take a shit without calling their parents.

Really fishy. I guess I am being the paranoid liberal here or something. But I think this is all very troubling.

[frankiepop]

it's just you. compared to the cold war, this is peanuts. i dont even see the biggest problem to be terrorism yet. it's really nukes in n korea and iran...shrug..

rather compared to daniel ellsberg and the pentagon papers, watergate...

[sonic1]

Oh, that's conforting. Things have always been like this.

Phew.

[rollhead]

I Be's Troubled
Well if I feel tomorrow, like I feel today
I'm gonna pack my suitcase, and make my getaway
Lord I'm troubled, I'm all worried in mind
And I'm never bein' satisfied, and I just can't keep from cryin'

[jazzy mary]

sonic, you are NOT the only one who is troubled. I am deeply troubled by the way the U.S. is going. It truly is becoming a "Slaughtered Democracy". Or, as the title of a song my 12 year old daughter wrote we are going "Away from America".

Things are bad.

P.S. I love the Rothko avatar.

[Darryl G. Thomas]

Maybe it's because I'm an atheist but I find the rise in power of the evangelical right troubling.

Also, I'm concerned about the economic direction our country's going in. I'll use my father as an example. He was born in 1918 in the segregated South, the backwoods of Georgia. No education, basically illiterate. Yet as a factory worker he was able to have a pretty decent living, become a home owner, and did not die in poverty. he died in his own bed in his own home.

Despite all his short comings he was able to become a productive member of the middle class (lower middle class that is). Those times are gone. We've gone from a manufacturing society to a service one. The nature of labor has changed. And we're witnessing a major transfer of money from the lower middle class and the working poor to the upper middle class and the wealthy.

What happens when the lower middle class and the working poor no longer can send their kids to college, afford a home, has no affordable medical service? What happens when they have no stake in a stable society?

[jazzy mary]

Well, Darryl, your father certainly left a wonderful legacy with you. You're one of the most interesting, articulate and insightful cats on JC!

I wonder and agree with your musings also.

[jesus marion joseph]

If you will recall, Dan Rather had a habit of "going after" presidents with the last name of Bush. I'm guessing that his inflated ego had as much to do with his ultimate removal from the stage as the GW Bush flap did. Frankly, when you become bigger than the story you're reporting, there's a problem.

[rollhead]

Richard Millhouse Nixon Bush?

[Al in NYC]

Originally Posted by Darryl G. Thomas

What happens when the lower middle class and the working poor no longer can send their kids to college, afford a home, has no affordable medical service? What happens when they have no stake in a stable society?

We've been down that road before, haven't we? Back in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, and the results weren't always pretty. What the corporate, trickle-down, "free"-market, favor the rich types seem to have forgotten is the reason why they had all of those bothersome labor unions, social programs, taxes, and regulations in the first place, and had to allow all that durned social and economic mobility. It was, of course, in large measure to buy off the growing dissatisfaction of those economically disadvantaged by the system and thereby avoid a worse fate.

Given all that's been done since 1980 to undo this hard-won social progress and to increase inequity, and the increasing radicalism with which it's being done, one has to wonder how the folks who hold the reins of state will perform the next time 1932 rolls around, as it inevitably will.

[Nathaniel Catchpole]

Originally Posted by Al in NYC

It was, of course, in large measure to buy off the growing dissatisfaction of those economically disadvantaged by the system and thereby avoid a worse fate.

What's unfortunate is that so many people who disagree with them have forgotten about it as well, that there were real possibilities for social change rather than stop-gap reforms.

I'd disagree that it's since 1980 that this attack has been going on, the stuff I've been reading on it recently puts the start at the early-'70s.

Either way although there's no way capital can be managed on a Keynesian model any more, the need for co-option and buffering of resentment is just as prevalent - although it's dealing with an atomised rather than organised working class this time around.

Given all that's been done since 1980 to undo this hard-won social progress and to increase inequity, and the increasing radicalism with which it's being done, one has to wonder how the folks who hold the reins of state will perform the next time 1932 rolls around, as it inevitably will.

Socialisme ou Barbarie, innit.

[Darryl G. Thomas]

Nat,

I think the politics of resentment (Nixon's "Southern Strategy") started in the early '70's, but big government being evil may have started with Carter. Didn't he run "against" Washington? And Reagan polished that theme to a fine sheen (also throwing in some of that "Southern Strategy" himself with the welfare queen stories and talking about state rights in Philadelphia, MS).

[Nathaniel Catchpole]

Agree that Reagan/Thatcher took it further, not disputing that. I'm no expert on this myself, being born in 1980 for a start, I'm just trying to find an excuse to plug the Harry Cleaver stuff on yet another thread to be honest since I've learned loads about recent economic history from his articles.

[clinthopson]

If the country can survive someone who is scarier than Nixon, more incompetent than Harding and more corrupt than Reagan and his boys, our grandkids might see an improvement.

[Rob C]

Even though I'm still unhappy with the direction in which the U.S. and the world seem to be moving, things feel slightly less...weird...than they did a few years ago. I've felt for a long time like a large number of people literally went a little nuts after 9/11. Just lost their minds a little, from fear. And I think the pendulum finally swung far enough in the insane direction that it has finally started to swing back, slowly.

I wish it had happened a year ago, because we're still stuck with Bush, but I'm heartened by broad swaths of the populace finally stepping up and disagreeing with Bush and crew about their actions with respect to Terri Schiavo, Katrina, the Iraq debacle, the general head-scratching over the Miers nomination, etc.

It's just subjective, but the zeitgeist feels to me like it's moving closer to a state of normality. At least I hope so!

[frankiepop]

Originally Posted by sonic1

Oh, that's conforting. Things have always been like this.

Phew.

no, what i am saying, things are drastically better...i guess i am not a doomsdayist....my future's so brite i gotta wear

what has pissed me off is in the pre reagan yrs you could buy an full ounce of weed for only 30 - 40 dollars, and after reagan it costs around a 100 dollars for a quarter ounce. this is the real tragedy of the reagan-bush yrs and damn good reason to take a leak on reagans grave.

[GoodSpeak]

Originally Posted by sonic1

Is it just me, or does anyone else find the state of the US very troubling right now.

I hate to dig up this subject, but I keep thinking about Dan Rather who lost his job over criticising the president.

Whatever you believe about his documentation, most of what he said was true. Most of the documentation was fine. Take away the so-called sketchy evidence from the now infamous broadcast and the theme of it was still true. Bush's military record has never been redeemed in any way.

But Dan Rather lost his job. So much for freedom of the press.

And if Dan Rather deserved to lose his job over that one document. Then why have not most of the press who reported about the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, the nuclear material bought in africa by Hussein, and all the other WMD myths being fired. We all know now those were lies. And many people have died over those lies and faulty evidence.

What is more, the jist of those reports were wrong. There was no significant evidence of weapons of mass destruction, worth invading Iraq over, found.

Dan Rather was reporting the truth. Bush has a sketchy military record, still.

Is this the freedom we are trying to give the middle east?

This is the press alright, Russian style.

I was also thinking about how now, because of the patriot act, people can be picked up by the government, put in a camp, and not given the same rights that anyone else would have in terms of due process. My friend Lanie is dating an arab who has been missing a few friend since last year. They are just plain missing. Two people, gone, families don't know where they are, friends don't know where they are, they are just gone. And if you know kids from Saudi, they don't usually even take a shit without calling their parents.

Really fishy. I guess I am being the paranoid liberal here or something. But I think this is all very troubling.

I think it is equally troubling when a professed Liberal denounces a fellow supporter.


Why do you have me on your ignore list if your sensibilities are like mine?



Answer: I think you are full of shit, Sonic.


Closed minds are NOT a family value, big boy.