Bush-Cheney falling out?

tristano's ghost · October-11th-2005, 02:12 PM

Could it be?

Possibly tied, yet again, to Karl Rove and Plamegate. I'm gettin' that holiday spirit already, I tell ya...

groover · October-11th-2005, 02:33 PM

Cheney's fed up with Bush? Then he's joined a big club!

clinthopson · October-11th-2005, 03:35 PM

Why? Does Cheney think that Shrub is becoming scarier than he is?

RainyDay · October-11th-2005, 03:53 PM

Cheney has been missing for much of his tenure as VP. This is different?

walto · October-11th-2005, 04:02 PM

Hmmmm. My sense is that any distancing at this time suggests (what I'd doubted before) that Cheney may want to run for President. Obviously, when Bush's approval ratings are really low, he'd be as far away as possible from his beloved---and, presumably, would do this with the President's support.

We're seeing the same sort of thing in Mass. these days: the Lt. Gov. wants Romney's job so, now, instead of fawning (as she has the last few years), as Romney shifts right, Healy's claiming to be avidly pro-choice, in favor of civil unions, etc.

Brian Olewnick · October-11th-2005, 04:54 PM

I guess stranger things have happened, but I can't imagine that Cheney thinks he has a chance in hell at winning a Presidential election. Between general tiredness with Bush (which, whatever one thinks of him, is going to be the case after eight years) and (accurate) public perception of his failing health, I just can't see it.

Gordon B · October-11th-2005, 04:59 PM

I'm surprised anybody is convinced from one flimsy column by a Philly tabloid journalist that Cheney dislikes Bush.

Questions.

What convinced you it was true?
Why is it important if true?
If ture, who's the loser, Cheney or Bush or neither?
If true, why is it good for the country?

Vince Kargatis · October-11th-2005, 06:57 PM

Gordon, I see no evidence that any posters above are "convinced". I passed on the link labeled as "fun rumormongering" - fun because bush-haters might enjoy for reasons of spite seeing personal discord amongst a "team" known above many things for loyalty. I doubt you find this hard to figure out.

lynn · October-11th-2005, 07:42 PM

That's actually pretty funny and not at all out of the realm of possibilities.

tristano's ghost · October-11th-2005, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordon B

I'm surprised anybody is convinced from one flimsy column by a Philly tabloid journalist that Cheney dislikes Bush.

Questions.

What convinced you it was true?
Why is it important if true?
If ture, who's the loser, Cheney or Bush or neither?
If true, why is it good for the country?

1. Not sure if it's true or not... but there are other rumors out there to this effect as well. Certainly a Rove vs. Scooter situation seems to be in the offing over Plamegate... my guess is that Scooter will be offered up to save Rove. And that won't make Dick very happy.
2. Why is it important if true? Geez, most people believe--rightly or wrongly, but I suspect rightly--that Cheney IS the prez, in effect. That's just one small point for starters. If he's less willing to prop Georgie boy up these days, that might make for some rough days in the White House.
3. I'd say they'd both be the losers, but neither has a political future, so it doesn't really matter.
4. Saving the country from their destructive policies does matter, and anything that makes these guys less effective at implenting their agenda--creeping theocracy, destruction of the government's fiscal health, perpetuating horrendously costly and bloody wars of imperialism, privatizing
Social Security, shredding the social contract, doing away with environmental regulation, turning what remains of government into a protector of wealthy and powerful corporate interests... I don't know where to stop, man. I'm amazed that conservatives still don't get it--liberals and an increasing number of independents hate George W. Bush not because he's a Republican, but because his administration is destroying the country. Therefore any impediments to his carrying out his agenda are highly favorable developments in my view.

Gordon B · October-11th-2005, 09:09 PM

"Destroying the country is pretty melodramatic." The Republic will survive Bush. Heck, we survived Jimmy Carter and Richard Nixon.

People hate Bush for various reasons but if I was to pick one reason above all it would be the disputed 2000 election.

I don't think Bush's power will be affected one iota if Cheney has decided he doesn't like him. LBJ didn't like JFK. Gore got sick of Clinton. Hubert Humphrey was treated like shit by Lyndon Johnson.

I thought people thought that Rove was controlling Bush. Now it's Cheney? Truth is that nobody controls him. Bush makes his own decisions.

shrugs · October-11th-2005, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordon B

Truth is that nobody controls him.

Except for God.

tristano's ghost · October-11th-2005, 10:28 PM

This not related to Bush-Cheney; rather, the supposedly emerging conflict between Card and Rove. But it all goes back to Plamegate and our little adventure in Iraq:

Quote:

NBC's Fineman: White House in civil war over Karl Rove
10/11/2005 07:04:00 PM

HOWARD FINEMAN, NBC CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That‘s the point of the lance of this whole thing.

Right now, my sense, in reporting this, Chris, is that the Bush family, political family, is at war with itself inside the White House. My sense is, it‘s Andy Card, the chief of staff, and his people against Karl Rove, the brain.

MATTHEWS: Right.

FINEMAN: And that runs through a whole lot of things, whether it‘s Harriet Miers or Katrina. But it all starts with Iraq.

And some submerged, but now emerging divisions within the administration over why we went into that war, how we went into that war and what was done to sell it. There are people are out for Karl Rove inside that White House, which makes his situation even more perilous.

My understanding, from talking to somebody quite close to this investigation, is that they think there are going to be indictments and possibly Karl Rove could be among them, if not for the act of the leaking information about Valerie Plame, then perhaps for perjury, because he‘s now testified four times.

And there are conflicts between what Matt Cooper told the grand jury and what Rove evidently told the jury himself. And Patrick Fitzgerald, the prosecutor, is an absolute stickler for detail who has no political axe to grind here, other than keeping his own credibility. Having put Judy Miller in jail, having gone to the lengths he had, my understand is, he has got some people here, not only Rove, but perhaps Scooter Libby, the vice president‘s chief of staff.

MATTHEWS: I also get the sense he reads the law book. He doesn‘t care about the politics.

(CROSSTALK)

FINEMAN: That‘s what I meant. That‘s what I meant. He doesn‘t care about the politics.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Let me ask you, you just raised a curtain-raiser for me. I didn‘t even know this.

You believe that the fight between those who may be headed toward indictment, the vice president‘s chief of staff, Karl Rove, there is a war between them and the people who are going to survive them, Andy Card, etcetera.

FINEMAN: Yes.

transcript link:
http://americablog.blogspot.com/2005...civil-war.html

And if there's any truth to Huffington's report that the WSJ is working on a story that Fitzgerald is targeting Cheney... good Lord, look out.

tristano's ghost · October-13th-2005, 03:33 PM

More fuel for the fire!

WSJ writer: Cheney opposed Miers nomination

Dr Dave · October-13th-2005, 08:08 PM

Someone's got to stand up to Andrew Card!

Ron Thorne · October-13th-2005, 09:19 PM

Click here and enjoy!

frankiepop · October-13th-2005, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordon B

I'm surprised anybody is convinced from one flimsy column by a Philly tabloid journalist that Cheney dislikes Bush.

Questions.

What convinced you it was true?
Why is it important if true?
If ture, who's the loser, Cheney or Bush or neither?
If true, why is it good for the country?

who said gordon isnt any fun?