Tony Williams Lifetime

AladdinSane · December-26th-2005, 11:37 AM

Let's talk about the Tony Williams Lifetime, shall we?

I especially love the album EMERGENCY! It's rock, hardbop, fast, loud!Ok, Tony Williams shouldn't sing, but it has its charms. I love this album more compared with the other TW albums. Not only because of John McLaughlin, but because of the total band. Jack Bruce would later join the band, but I don't like his playing very much.

gonzo · December-27th-2005, 05:20 AM

great band that wasn't around long enough.

AladdinSane · December-27th-2005, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gonzo

great band that wasn't around long enough.

Yeah, you are absolutely right, gonzo. I listen to Emergency! over and over again. Just unbelieveable what a sound it is.

mke · December-27th-2005, 01:34 PM

Is Emergency! currently in print? I look for it from time to time and never see it.

AladdinSane · December-27th-2005, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mke

Is Emergency! currently in print? I look for it from time to time and never see it.

Yes, there is. Through the Dutch shop site Bol.com you can order it. Or go to amazon.com:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...=glance&n=5174

If you don't have it, you must order it. This album rocks and is jazzy the same time! Very good album

Pete C · December-28th-2005, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AladdinSane

Very good album

Except when Tony sings.

AladdinSane · December-29th-2005, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete C

Except when Tony sings.

=lol= That's true. His singing can be very weird. But it's part of the whole atmosphere. It has its charm, but I agree... he can't sing.

Dr Dave · December-29th-2005, 05:05 PM

My fave. Great reading of Coltrane's "Big Nick." Among other attractions.

AladdinSane · December-29th-2005, 05:50 PM

I've just bought my copy of Turn it Over. Very abstract album. More rock than Emergency! I also love the tracks Big Nick, Right, Vuelta Abajo and Allah Be Praised. A good record.

Pete C · December-30th-2005, 04:22 PM

I love Jack Bruce, but I think the band worked much better without him.

Dr Dave · December-30th-2005, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete C

I love Jack Bruce, but I think the band worked much better without him.

I don't know that they were better without him; I mean, Jack could actually sing. I'd agree that they certainly didn't need him.

It's funny, I think of this band as one of the best exemplars of fusion, but it's my understanding that while they were actually in business they found it very difficult to get work.

AladdinSane · December-30th-2005, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete C

I love Jack Bruce, but I think the band worked much better without him.

I agree. Jack Bruce is a good bassplayer, but the band worked very good without him.

VIBEr · December-30th-2005, 05:39 PM

I don't think Jack Bruce appears on very many of the cuts on Turn It Over, and I would suspect his addition to the band (besides the obvious name recognition) was to allow them to have a punchier bass sound than organ pedals provide - especially outdoors in a festival setting.

I don't really agree that Lifetime was a fusion band; there is actually little in terms of a backbeat rock influence in their playing. The idea of the band was to revolutionize the idea of the organ trio by borrowing heavily from Coltrane's concept (Larry Young and Trane were pretty close personal friends), and the use of guitar plus the absence of horns makes the instrumentation similar to rock, but I never thought they "rocked" in the same way that Billy Cobham could lay down the heavy funk in Mahavishnu. Nor did I ever think they aspired to play rock other than making what they did accessible to rock audiences and playing rock auditoriums. [However, I think Tony did redirect his music towards rock in the version of the band that recorded their final album "Old Bum's Rush" and most definitely the 1975 Allan Holdsworth version of Lifetime.]

Now that I think about it, Coltrane was exploring the outer limits of his music in his final year, so maybe Lifetime was doing exactly the same in their organ trio instrumentation(?). I can really hear them reaching for "something" -- pretty intense stuff.

AladdinSane · January-1st-2006, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VIBEr

I don't think Jack Bruce appears on very many of the cuts on Turn It Over, and I would suspect his addition to the band (besides the obvious name recognition) was to allow them to have a punchier bass sound than organ pedals provide - especially outdoors in a festival setting.

I don't really agree that Lifetime was a fusion band; there is actually little in terms of a backbeat rock influence in their playing. The idea of the band was to revolutionize the idea of the organ trio by borrowing heavily from Coltrane's concept (Larry Young and Trane were pretty close personal friends), and the use of guitar plus the absence of horns makes the instrumentation similar to rock, but I never thought they "rocked" in the same way that Billy Cobham could lay down the heavy funk in Mahavishnu. Nor did I ever think they aspired to play rock other than making what they did accessible to rock audiences and playing rock auditoriums. [However, I think Tony did redirect his music towards rock in the version of the band that recorded their final album "Old Bum's Rush" and most definitely the 1975 Allan Holdsworth version of Lifetime.]

Now that I think about it, Coltrane was exploring the outer limits of his music in his final year, so maybe Lifetime was doing exactly the same in their organ trio instrumentation(?). I can really hear them reaching for "something" -- pretty intense stuff.

I understand your point of view, VIBEr. But I do not fully agree with you. If you replace the heavy guitar sound, the organ with piano and tony's raging play with easier stuff, you'll get a harbop sound. But the stuff is electric, fast and hard. It has some rock riffs in it and it approaches some era of psychedelica. To my opinion this IS fusion.
But again, this is just my opinion.

Dr Dave · January-2nd-2006, 10:08 AM

It's true that Jack didn't play on all that many recorded sessions, and I absolutely buy the "punchier live sound" argument for his presence. As for whether or not it was "fusion," hell, I don't really know. I'd say it was because they were using rock instrumentation and rock textures. Tony's playing, to me, anyway, was beyond easy categorization. Jazz/rock/funk/world/everydamnthing.

VIBEr · January-2nd-2006, 10:52 AM

I would agree with everyone with respect to that it really doesn't matter whether of not it conformed to the dictionary definition of fusion. There is/was a school of thought that catagorized the period between Miles In The Sky and Inner Mounting Flame as jazz-rock or rock-jazz or whatever one wants to call it, and those records would include the Gary Burton, Chrles Lloyd, and Gabor Szabo groups (among others like Soft Machine and Nucleus), but I think those are basically descriptive terms and I understand what people mean when those terms are used.

I'll say one thing for Lifetime - I sure admired their guts. This was an era when organ groups were defined by Jimmy Smith and players who based their style on that funk-based groove, and for Lifetime to completely challenge that was pretty courageous considering that there was yet to be a guarantee that jazz was going to be accepted at rock arenas.

AladdinSane · January-2nd-2006, 11:11 AM

Yep

AladdinSane · February-25th-2006, 07:38 PM

I've read somewhere on the internet that the original line-up of the Tony Williams Lifetime stop continueing because of the strange management of the band. John McLaughlin wasn't feeling good with these odd guys of the management and left the band at the end to form the Mahavishnu Orchestra.
It happened to Jimi Hendrix and now also to the Lifetime...

Gary Sisco · February-27th-2006, 08:44 AM

Most of the early fusion records (Lifetime, Return To Forever's first two, Bitches Brew, McLaughlin's early records) didn't feature a rock-style back beat at all. Musically, they were playing jazz but they did it with electric instruments and rock's energy. Hardly any early fusion featured rock's continual pounding on 2 and 4.

AladdinSane · February-27th-2006, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

Most of the early fusion records (Lifetime, Return To Forever's first two, Bitches Brew, McLaughlin's early records) didn't feature a rock-style back beat at all. Musically, they were playing jazz but they did it with electric instruments and rock's energy. Hardly any early fusion featured rock's continual pounding on 2 and 4.

I agree. If you listen for instance to Spanish Key, Emergency!, or John McLaughlin, you will hear a jazzy beat. It's all jazz but with electric rockin' instruments.
Especially the album Emergency! is a good example of good early Fusion.

Gary Sisco · February-27th-2006, 10:35 AM

I can't deal with the vocals (and am miles away from being a Jack Bruce fan) but have made a Lifetime CD-R of my picks, almost all from Emergency!, that rocks like a mo..., er.. Boiled down, I love it all the way through.

I liked those early days of fusion. I still listen to and like those first two Return To Forver records (after that, they dropped way off any map I was looking at). And of course Miles with McLaughlin is a staple.

Chris D · February-27th-2006, 10:36 AM

I thought the two-CD Lifetime overview "Spectrum" did a nice job of encapsulating their sometimes spotty ouevre in one place.

Gary Sisco · February-27th-2006, 10:38 AM

It did, Chris. It even included the spots. Most of what I consider the really good stuff is on it, too, though. that's what program buttons are for...

AladdinSane · February-27th-2006, 10:42 AM

yeah. I really like Emergency! too. It rocked like hell. Turn it Over is good also. But yes, Jack Bruce isn't my favorite member also. I prefer those tracks without the vocals.

BFrank · February-27th-2006, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris D

I thought the two-CD Lifetime overview "Spectrum" did a nice job of encapsulating their sometimes spotty ouevre in one place.

Yeah............good collection.

lazarus · February-27th-2006, 12:44 PM

Lifetime is one of my all-time favorite groups.

It´s a pity that the label have cancelled the release of Bill Laswell´s remixed "Turn It Over". I have heard it and I think it´s superior to the original mix that sounds a little bit thin.

Am I the only one that likes Tony´s vocals? I think he sounds pretty cool.

AladdinSane · March-1st-2006, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lazarus

Lifetime is one of my all-time favorite groups.

It´s a pity that the label have cancelled the release of Bill Laswell´s remixed "Turn It Over". I have heard it and I think it´s superior to the original mix that sounds a little bit thin.

Am I the only one that likes Tony´s vocals? I think he sounds pretty cool.

How did you heard those remixes? And why was it cancelled?

I love the vocals on 'Via The Spectrum Road'...

lazarus · March-8th-2006, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AladdinSane

How did you heard those remixes? And why was it cancelled?

I love the vocals on 'Via The Spectrum Road'...

I got it on a cd-r from a friend here at JC.
I don´t know the exact reason why it was cancelled. No commercial potential maybe?

AladdinSane · March-24th-2006, 02:38 PM

I've listened to the song 'Big Nick'(originaly john coltrane) again from the album Turn it Over. The song just rocks! I love it!

Pete C · March-24th-2006, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lazarus

Am I the only one that likes Tony´s vocals?

I guess not, but surely you're in very select company.