Gianluigi Trovesi Ottetto - Fugace

Steve Reynolds · December-26th-2005, 03:16 PM

of course being a dunderhead in many ways - I don't know what the fuck an Ottetto is - so here they are:

Gianluigi Trovesi: alto saxophone, piccolo, alto clarinets
Beppe Caruso: trombone
Massimo Greco: trumpet, electronics
Marco Remondini: cello, electronics
Roberto Bonati: double-bass
Marco Micheli: double-bass, electric bass
Fulvio Maras: percussion, electronics
Vittorio Marinoni: drums

Recorded June, 2002 ECM 1827

Might we still be in love?

Never heard of these guys in the band – havn’t heard anything new from one of my favorite individualists in quite some time

The liners talk much about where it comes from, and it’s amelding of influences, Italian folk music, romantic (and unromantic) classical influences – and we hear about Louis Armstrong from 1930 and 1956 – and we know that Trovesi isn’t a regular jazz guy – he doesn’t make music that fits any mold – and some say it is not all his….

Is this “From G to G” ten years forward?

Is “Around Small Fairy Tales” the saccarhine piece of muck that Uli says it is?

Or is it borrowed the way that Gordon says it was?

Or is it simply Trovesi

We again hear the magic that is Trovesi

Havn’t heard much new – but without a doubt my initial response and reaction is that it is clean, neat, sprightly, perfect sounding (as it is on ECM) – perfect as in with a bit of reverb 0- and there isn’t any outward grit – but it is a great record – better the second time – melodies might be borrowed from some old guy – long dead – but the bottom line is that the melodies in his music are the greatest I hear on any jazz records of the past 30 years

My record of the year – jazz that is, and of course, it isn’t jazz as we know it, it’s pretty much folk pop music with a twist – and sounds like it’s from forever, and yet is a fresh as today’s raand yeah – I’m still in love – but I don’t recommend this to really anyone – because it ain’t for the hip, it ain’t for the cool

Plus I havn’t heard many records – but I know that it would still be – Trovesi is one of the few jazz artist today who can make a record that we know and yet don’t know what we will hear – we don’t expect this, and yet we do

Except for one piece that last 1:38 – which is simply the best 1:38 of music I have heard in ten years

So – I recommend it to everyone to hear that 1:38 that is buried in the middle of a thoroughly un-hip, wonderful recording

It is for the beautiful ones – for guys who don’t mind crying in front of other guys

Clumsy dancing, baby

Sergio Zamora · December-26th-2005, 03:19 PM

otteto = octet

(inferred by extrapolating from one romance language to another and then translating to English)

Sergio Zamora · December-26th-2005, 03:22 PM

Steve, I don't think this is up your alley, but I really dug the ECM recordings Trovesi did with accordion player Gianni Coscia. I haven't heard it as much as I should, but 'Round About Weill' is a gem.

Captain Hate · December-26th-2005, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sergio Zamora

I haven't heard it as much as I should, but 'Round About Weill' is a gem.

Wow SOZ, it's rare when I disagree with you on music but this one put me to sleep. And I was pretty pumped to hear it prior to listening.

Sergio Zamora · December-26th-2005, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Hate

Wow SOZ, it's rare when I disagree with you on music but this one put me to sleep. And I was pretty pumped to hear it prior to listening.

Just shows to go how sometimes you're wrong, Cap.

Fwiw, it definitely is a low-key recording, not a whirlwind of energy. But Trovesi's clarinet does create a lot of excitemeent to my ears.

mke · December-27th-2005, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sergio Zamora

otteto = octet

(inferred by extrapolating from one romance language to another and then translating to English)

(And by counting the number of musicians)

Rob Damen · January-1st-2006, 05:07 PM

I haven't listened to it since I bought it. I think that says it all.

Cheers,

Rob

Steve Reynolds · January-2nd-2006, 01:22 PM

why - you didn't like it?

or you *never* listened to it?

curious

I know it isn't anything like "From G to G" or "Les Hommes Armes"

is there something off-putting about the record, Rob?

Rob Damen · January-2nd-2006, 05:07 PM

I really don't know how I could have been more clear?!?!?

No, I didn't like the record.

It was unmemorable and boring, if I may borrow from your blunt style of criticism.

Get it?

"From G to G" was more to my liking. A great record through and through!

Cheers,

Rob

Rob Damen · January-2nd-2006, 05:51 PM

In fact, I thought that was why no one mentioned it in the first place when it was released, given there's so much support for his music here. I just figured no brought it up because it wasn't that beloved.

Cheers,

Rob

Gordon B · January-2nd-2006, 06:11 PM

Steve, I'm with you on the Ottetto. I couldn't stop playing it when I got it. I love it as much as you do. I side with Sergio on the Weill recording but am not sure if it's up your alley.

Have you gotten this one?
BARRY GUY/LONDON JAZZ COMPOSERS ORCHESTRA - Study II/Stringer (Intakt 095/Switzerland) "Study II" was recorded in February of 1991, in a Zurich radio studio; "Stringer" and was released as FMP LP 1983.

I'd be curious if anybody has heard it.

Paul B · January-3rd-2006, 12:14 AM

Quote:

I really don't know how I could have been more clear?!?!?

No, I didn't like the record.

Wynton wasn't on it. What would you expect?

Bye-ya

bluenoter · January-3rd-2006, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Reynolds

It is for the beautiful ones – for guys who don’t mind crying in front of other guys

Oh.

(I personally probably wouldn't like it, but that was like a small slap in the face.)

Steve Reynolds · January-3rd-2006, 10:05 AM

actually I would be *very* surprised if you didn't like it

if you are a romantic, Rita

bluenoter · January-3rd-2006, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Reynolds

actually I would be *very* surprised if you didn't like it

if you are a romantic, Rita

Steve, I'm not; I'm allergic to most kinds of "pretty" music.

The Weill stuff sounds intriguing, but I'd want to acquire a lot more "first-hand" Weill first.

Steve Reynolds · January-3rd-2006, 10:09 AM

what is a bit odd is that the dixieish portions of the recording are unsurprisingly unaffected - much different in feel than the retro music/musicians that some here deify

the brass section is quite convincing in it's authority and purpose, yet there are no pretentions in what they are doing - nothing modern for modern's sake, nothing nostalgic for nolstagia's sake.

but as with all of Trovesi's music there is a sense of history and the past with a modern feel that is somehow unexplainable

bluenoter · January-3rd-2006, 10:16 AM

Well, you're writing about it beautifully.

Rob Damen · January-3rd-2006, 05:04 PM

It's funny, but I kept asking myself one question as I heard the record:

"I'm sorry, but this music is from which movie, again?"

Strange, but given the constant hype of how vastly superior this guy is to certain other musicians, I found the dixieish parts to be pleasant, but lacked the passion of the so-called retro/musicians not so obliquely referred to here.

It lacked the deep swing to fill the bread basket, but it sounded pleasant and tame enough for the circus, perhaps. I'm thinking more Bozo than Bix.

Cheers,

Rob

Paul B · January-3rd-2006, 05:07 PM

Quote:

I'm thinking more Bozo than Bix.

That describes Mr. Marsalis to "T."

Bye-ya

Rob Damen · January-3rd-2006, 05:22 PM

And speaking of the circus ...

Surfer · January-3rd-2006, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Reynolds

what is a bit odd is that the dixieish portions of the recording are unsurprisingly unaffected - much different in feel than the retro music/musicians that some here deify

the brass section is quite convincing in it's authority and purpose, yet there are no pretentions in what they are doing - nothing modern for modern's sake, nothing nostalgic for nolstagia's sake.

but as with all of Trovesi's music there is a sense of history and the past with a modern feel that is somehow unexplainable

I'm terribly biased when it comes to Trovesi, whom I view as one of the great reed players (and composers) alive, and though I like Fugace plenty, I dont think its essential Trovesi. First it is too deliberately eclectic, what with the "drum and bass" track, and then the dixieland track, it doesnt always flow with a unified sense of vision that most of his other recordings do.

Nevertheless, his uncanny sense of melody and joy come through as ever. As Steve rightly pointed out, what is so great about Trovesi's compositions and solos is/are that they look backwards and forwards at the same time (Ancient To The Future, Italiano Style). They are, in the truest sense of the word, entirely organic in conception and execution. As the liner notes say, this music is the product of a man who grew up in post WWII Italy, with the emerging cosmopolitanism of Europe, the exciting modernism of America and American jazz, and the history and folkmusic of Italy and the mediterranean.

For those who want to investigate Trovesi/Coscia, I prefer In Cerca Di Cibo (ECM), which is a great dance between two masters.

I'm with you, Steve.

Rob Damen · January-3rd-2006, 05:33 PM

I agree with Surfer.

I very much enjoy "From G to G" (but not surprisingly, that declaration got ignored), but this record isn't all that essential. Maybe not a bad record necessarily, but certainly one I'm not going to return to except when prompted.

Cheers,

Rob

Surfer · January-3rd-2006, 05:44 PM

Judging it against Trovesi's catalogue and high standards may not be fair, as it would still have made my top 10 or 15 recordings of 2004, despite not being a top 5 Trovesi recording. Still, it has its moments.

I implore those who are big Trovesi fans to search out Michel Godard's Castel del Monte. John B turned me on to it and it is essential I think.

Ranking the Trovesi disks I own:

1. From G to G
2. Around Small Fairy Tales
3. Godard's Castel del Monte
4. Les Hommes Armes
5. In Cerca di Cibo
6. Fugace
7. Around the Weill
8. Charm Mediterranean (not a Trovesi disk, although several of the compositions are his and they are predictably the highlights)

This doesnt include the Italian Instabile disks.

Does anyone have Radici or Deodalo (pictured below)?

Gordon B · January-3rd-2006, 10:40 PM

Well Surfer, I've had this argument with Steve before, but I thought that your #2 pick was pretty bad and traded it away.

Does anybody here remember the JTP? WEHT Jim Stinteros(sp?)?

My four favorites are

1. From G to G
2. Les Hommes Armes
3. Fugace
4. Round 'About Weill.

Last. Around Small Fairy Tales.

Ralf Wacker · January-4th-2006, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surfer

Does anyone have Radici or Deodalo (pictured below)?

Yes:

It's somehow "From G To G" ten years later.

Takes From G to G
1 [3:53] Herbalk
2 [9:35] Herbop - Part I
3 [7:17] Herbop - Part II
4 [6:38] Now I can
5 [14:26] From G To G
6 [9:51] Dedalo
7 [7:02] Hercab

Takes from Dedalo
1 [7:07] Hercab
2 [0:43] Herbob - Fragment
3 [12:53] Herbob
4 [0:47] Dance For A King - Fragment 1
5 [7:47] Now I Can
6 [0:49] Dance For A King - Fragment 2
7 [8:21] From G To G
8 [6:31] Scotch
9 [5:27] Dance For The East No. 2
10 [1:40] Dance For A King - Fragment 3
11 [5:02] Dedalo
12 [4:42] Hercab - Live Version

(Some more takes to fill the size of a CD.)
The main difference is

8 Musicians From G to G:
db: Roberto Bonati; Marco Micheli
dr: Vittorio Marinoni
perc: Fulvio Maras
sax/cl: Gianluigi Trovesi
tbn/tba: Rodolfo Migliardi
tp/flhn: Pino Minafra
vc: Marco Remondini

21 Musicians Dedalo
db: John Goldsby
dr: Tom Rainey
gtr: Paul Shigihara
p: Frank Chastenier
perc: Fulvio Maras
sax: Jens Neufang; Olivier Peters; Harald Rosenstein; Gianluigi Trovesi; Heiner Wiberny
sax/cl: Rolf Römer
tbn: Dave Horler; Berndt Leukamp; Ludwig Nuss
tbn/tba: Lucas Schmid
tp: Rob Bruynen; Andy Haderer; Rick Kiefer; John Marshall; Klaus Osterloh; Markus Stockhausen

A real big band version.

My personal sequence how often i do listen to my Trovesi records would be :

Gianliugi Trovesi / Gianni Coscia: In cerca di cibo - ECM 1999
Michel Godard: Castel Del Monte - enja 1998
Gianluigi Trovesi Octet: From G To G - Soul Note / IREC 1992
Gianluigi Trovesi: Dedalo - enja / WDR 2001
Gianluigi Trovesi Octet: Les Hommes Armes - Soul Note / IREC 1996
Gianluigi Trovesi Ottetto: Fugace - ECM 2002
Orchestre National de Jazz: Charmediterraneen - ECM 2001
Gianluigi Trovesi / Gianni Coscia: Round About Weill - ECM 2004
Gianluigi Trovesi Nonet: Round About A Midsummer's Dream - enja / SWR 1999

Ralf Wacker
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
today at the player:
John Surman / Jack DeJohnette / London Brass: Free And Equal - ECM 2001

Gordon B · January-5th-2006, 07:48 AM

I'm waiting for JC newbie and Trovesi aficionado dsgtrane to check in with his thoughts on Fugace.

dsgtrane · January-8th-2006, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordon B

I'm waiting for JC newbie and Trovesi aficionado dsgtrane to check in with his thoughts on Fugace.

Geez, talk about being put on the spot.

I'd rate "Fugace" among my Trovesi favorites. Of course I love "Around Small Fairy Tales" so what do I know.

I remember discovering Trovesi back in my/our Jazz Central Station days. I was exposed to more good music in those couple of years than at any other time of my life. Of course those daily Music Blvd. coupons sure helped.