Vic Coulsen at Mintons and the birth of Modern Jazz

[Happenstance_man]

Greetings. I have had a question which has itched at the back of my Jazz head for a while- Does anybody have ANY information on Vic Couslen? I am referring to the Vic Couslen that Thelonious Monk name drops in his September 24th, 1947 interview for Down beat Magazine (found in it's entirety at several places on the web). Here is Monk's specific quote I am referring to, discussing the development of bebop:

"For my part, I'll say it was just the style of music I happened to play. We all contributed ideas, the men you know plus a fellow called Vic Couslen, who had been with Parker and Al Hibbler in the McShann band. Vic had a lot to do with our way of phrasing."

Whoa- Vic Couslen was a phrasal influence on Monk, Bird, Diz, and the rest of the Minton crew, but all we know of him is from this QUOTE??? Does anybody have any additional information on him? He's not listed on the allmusic site, and typing his name in any search engine only gets web sites that have the Monk interview. Here are some specific questions:

What instrument did he play?
Although it seems obvious he never recorded as a leader, did he do any recordings with Jay Mcshann (or an other band)? Any solos?

Any information would be nice to have, because at the moment the man appears to be more mysterious than Buddy Bolden. Thanks.

[037]

You may have better luck getting info on Vic Coulsen if you spell his name right.
He played trumpet.

"7"

[John P. Cooper]

Have you checked the personel for the McShann band at that time or have you looked in any of the regular discographies.

Jay McShann is one of the few bandleaders of that era of any significance who is still alive.

That Vic Coulsen remark by Monk seems to have been quoted quite a few times, so it seems likely someone has looked into it by now.

Welcome to the forum, btw.

[Squaredancecalling Steve]

Never heard of him, and he's not listed on the McShann I have, but there are a couple of interesting bits about him on the web:


from a piece of Max Roach's "M'Boom":

>>Shortly after Roach graduated from high school, cornetist Vic Coulson announced to the Clark Monroe band: "Tomorrow night I'm going to bring down the greatest musician in the world." The band members greeted this news with jaded sneers. "We were New Yorkers, man--we'd been hearing Coleman Hawkins, Lester Young."

The next night, Coulson introduced a young alto saxophone player from Kansas City to the band. After the newcomer sat in, "we said, 'Yeah, he's all right.' " Roach puts his hands behind his head and lets out a laugh. "The new guy was Charlie Parker."<<


and from a piece on early BeBop:

>>of Miles, probably the most influential trumpeter alive in terms of impact on the present musical generation. What he had learned originally from Clark Terry and others in and around St. Louis he later expanded when he heard Vic Coulson in New York ("it was impossible to try to play like Dizzy, so I listened to Vic")<<

[bluenoter]

So we know that the correct spelling isn't Couslen, but is it Coulsen or Coulson (per different posts)? For once, I'm too lazy to try to check.

[Pete C]

Now that we have the Coulson spelling he's listed in personnel for a lot of bop-era compilations.

[Happenstance_man]

Well, it seems that Down Beat misspelled his name after all. So it's not "Couslen". Actually "Vic Coulson" IS listed on the Allmusic site (no biography though) and he apparently did sessions with Hawkins, Byas, Gillespie, and even Charlie Christian. So the proper spelling seems to be "Coulson". That Max Roach quote helped a lot. Thanks a lot for clearing that up for me.

Anyway, this forum is great, I will be back again.

[Nate Dorward]

There is some discussion of him passim in the excellent Scott DeVeaux book The Birth of Bebop. Apparently he never recorded any solos, unfortunately (what exists is just section-work).