Palestinian parliamentary elections 2006

[Monte Smith]

The Palestinians go to the polls on Wednesday. Hamas is campaigning hard, hoping to break the stranglehold Fatah has always had on PA politics. These elections will have a large impact on Israel's election in April, since Israel's politics have been thrown up in the air with the creation of Kadima and the sidelining of Ariel Sharon.


Palestinians vote in election, Hamas set to gain
By Mohammed Assadi
Reuters

RAMALLAH, West Bank (Reuters) - Palestinians vote in their first parliamentary election in a decade on Wednesday and could bring the powerful Islamic movement Hamas into the government for the first time.

Israeli officials have cautioned that a victory for Hamas, behind dozens of suicide bombings and officially committed to destroying the Jewish state, could herald an end to Middle East peacemaking. The United States is also worried.

Opinion polls show Hamas, running for parliament for the first time and standing on an anti-corruption platform, just a few percentage points behind President Mahmoud Abbas's ruling Fatah.

Abbas urged Palestinians to vote and ordered security forces to prevent any disruption or cheating after weeks of armed chaos that had threatened to delay the ballot.

"These elections will be a step on the way to freedom, achieving our independence and building our state," Abbas said in a televised address. Abbas was elected a year ago.

Some 1.4 million people in the Gaza Strip, the occupied West Bank and Arab East Jerusalem are eligible to vote for the 132-member Palestinian Legislative Council in the polls set to open at 7 a.m.

Voters will choose among 11 party lists at the national level and more than 400 candidates running locally in the first parliamentary election since 1996. About 900 foreign observers have been deployed to monitor the process.

The main Palestinian militant groups have pledged to prevent trouble.

TROOPS PULL BACK

Israel's army and police have also pulled back from Palestinian population centers to avoid interfering in the election in the West Bank, which Israel captured in a 1967 Middle East War.

At the same time, Israel kept its forces on a high alert to prevent attacks by militants of the Islamic Jihad, a group boycotting the ballot and which claimed responsibility for a suicide bombing in Israel last Thursday.

Though its charter calls for Israel to be destroyed, Hamas has largely followed a truce in a five-year-old Palestinian uprising and a senior official said this week that talks with Israel were "not taboo."

Abbas hopes that once Hamas enters parliament it might be prepared to disarm, a process that is meant to start under a U.S.-backed peace "road map" for a Palestinian state alongside a secure Israel.

Israel insists on disarmament before there are any talks.

The United States has reiterated that it viewed Hamas as "a terrorist organization." Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has said Washington would have practical problems dealing with Hamas because of this classification.

Acting Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, in his first policy speech since assuming the powers of Ariel Sharon after a January 4 stroke, said that he hoped the Palestinian poll would deliver a government ready to follow the "road map."

Olmert, expected to win a March 28 election, said Israel had to give up some West Bank land and quickly set a border with the Palestinians. He also pledged to keep Israel's road map promise to remove unauthorized settler outposts.

But he stirred Palestinian concern with a hint that Israel would set a border by itself if talks failed.

(Additional reporting by Jonathan Saul in Herzliya and Allyn Fisher-Ilan in Jerusalem)

...Though its charter calls for Israel to be destroyed, Hamas has largely followed a truce in a five-year-old Palestinian uprising and a senior official said this week that talks with Israel were "not taboo.".....

If they can stay on and improve on the peace path Hamas might be the strong arm necessary to unite the palestinians into a worthwhile nation that could ultimately be key to bringing some sort of stability to the Mideast.

So far it's been like herding cats over there.

[Gentle Giant]

I may be incredibly naive, but I like to think (and I'm also assuming Hamas will join the government if not lead it) that given political legitimacy, Hamas will give up the terrorism business and be more about saber-rattling than suicide bombing.

That said, Hamas is not the only terrorism game in town, and the true test of the Palestinian government, however it is constructed, will be its ability to finally subdue the various other terrorist groups operating in and around the region.

I pray the Palestinians vote for peace and coexistance.

[Monte Smith]

Hamas sweeps Palestinian election
By Nidal al-Mughrabi


GAZA (Reuters) - The Islamic militant Hamas group swept to victory over the long-dominant Fatah party on Thursday in Palestinian parliamentary polls, a political earthquake that could bury any hope for reviving peace talks with Israel soon.

The shock outcome, acknowledged by Fatah ahead of official results, does not automatically unseat President Mahmoud Abbas, a moderate elected last year after Yasser Arafat's death. But he has said he might resign if unable to pursue a peace policy.

"Today we woke up and the sky was a different color. We have entered a new era," Palestinian chief negotiator Saeb Erekat said after Hamas announced it had won more than 70 seats in the 132-member parliament in Wednesday's election.

Official results were due around 7 p.m. (1700 GMT)

With peace negotiations stalled since 2000 and Israel and Hamas bitter enemies, Israeli interim Prime Minister Ehud Olmert could opt for more unilateral moves, following last year's Gaza pullout, to shape borders on land Palestinians want for a state.

Olmert, who took over from Ariel Sharon after the 77-year-old leader's January 4 stroke, suggested as much in a speech this week in which he repeated peace talks could not resume unless the Palestinian Authority disarmed militants.

U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Washington's view of Hamas as a terrorist group was unchanged after the poll. Hamas has carried out nearly 60 suicide bombings in Israel since a Palestinian uprising began more than five years ago.

"As we have said, you cannot have one foot in politics and the other in terror," Rice said in broadcast remarks from the World Economic Forum in Switzerland.

Rice telephoned Abbas to voice continued U.S. support, an Abbas spokesman said. Earlier, Prime Minister Ahmed Qurie of Fatah and his cabinet quit in the face of the Hamas victory. Abbas asked him to stay on in a caretaker capacity.

The United States is the main sponsor of a long-stalled "road map" peace plan that charts mutual steps toward the creation of a Palestinian state alongside a secure Israel.

Commentators in the Arab world predicted pragmatism would eventually prevail, with Hamas softening a position that now calls for the Jewish state's destruction and Israel forging contacts with a new Palestinian powerhouse on its doorstep.

In the streets of Gaza, Hamas activists embraced, fired guns in the air and handed out sweets.

VETO

Leaders of the European Union, the biggest aid donor to the cash-strapped Palestinian Authority, said Hamas must renounce violence and recognize Israel or risk international isolation.

Under Palestinian law, the biggest party in the 132-member parliament can veto the president's choice of a prime minister, effectively enabling Hamas to shape the next cabinet.

Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev declined comment amid reports that Olmert had told cabinet ministers not to speak out before top-level consultations on the Hamas win.

A senior Fatah official said it appeared Hamas was propelled to victory by public frustration over the mainstream faction's failure to achieve Palestinian statehood and anger over years of corruption in its institutions and in the Palestinian Authority.

Hamas officials held out the possibility of a coalition with Fatah and other parties -- and reaffirmed the group's commitment to what it calls armed resistance against Israeli occupation, as well as its opposition to negotiations with Israel.

Hamas's politburo chief Khaled Meshaal telephoned Abbas to affirm "a commitment to partnership with all the Palestinian forces, including the brothers in the Fatah movement."

But Jibril Rajoub, a senior Fatah official, rejected any coalition with Hamas, a group that Abbas had said he hoped to bring into the political mainstream and persuade to disarm.

Although Hamas's charter calls for Israel's elimination in favor of an Islamic state, its armed wing has largely respected a truce negotiated by Abbas and Egypt nearly a year ago.

In the wider Middle East, the Hamas victory was seen as strengthening the hand of those who favor democracy even at the risk of removing authoritarian Arab governments which themselves face Islamist opposition movements sympathetic to Hamas.

U.S. President George W. Bush said on Wednesday he would not deal with Hamas unless it accepted Israel's existence.

Voting in Wednesday's election was orderly despite weeks of armed chaos. More than 400 candidates ran locally in the first parliamentary elections since 1996. About 900 foreign observers, led by former U.S. President Jimmy Carter, were present.

Three exit polls had forecast a slim Fatah victory in the election. Turnout was 78 percent of the 1.3 million voters.

(Additional reporting by Wafa Amr and Mohammed Assadi in Ramallah, Allyn Fisher-Ilan, Jeffrey Heller and Matt Spetalnick in Jerusalem, Saul Hudson in Washington, Mark Trevelyan in Davos and Jonathan Wright in Cairo)

[Adam Hill]

I'm surprised that US support--financial and otherwise--of Fatah didn't help them with their citizens.

[Darryl G. Thomas]

I was listening to a former Israeli government official on the radio this morning. The jist of his comments was that democracy can be bad if the wrong cats get elected.

That's the funny thing about the Middle East and democracy. You may not like the guys who win.

[Monte Smith]

That's the funny thing with democracy all over.

Anyhow, I doubt that our jewish lobby/"interests" will allow the administration to deal with any group that has sworn, even in the past, their desire to annihilate the jewish state.

[Root Doctor]

Democracy's on the march, just in the wrong direction.

[Chris D]

Originally Posted by Root Doctor

Democracy's on the march, just in the wrong direction.

Just ask Allende! Wait....

[jeff54]

Originally Posted by jazzbluescat

Anyhow, I doubt that our jewish lobby/"interests" will allow the administration to deal with any group that has sworn, even in the past, their desire to annihilate the jewish state.

Well they "allowed them" to deal with the PLO who in the past , and some would say even in the present has shown a desire to annihilate the jewish state. Hamas' desire to annihilate is most definitely in the present.

[Darryl G. Thomas]

One of the positive things about this election is that now Hamas has to do something other than send suicide bombers into Israel. They've got to govern. They were elected because Fatah was corrupt and didn't deliver basic services to the people like security and a working economy.

It's easy to just throw bombs when you're on the outside. But now you've got to create a workable state.

[groover]

Originally Posted by jazzbluescat

Anyhow, I doubt that our jewish lobby/"interests" will allow the administration to deal with any group that has sworn, even in the past, their desire to annihilate the jewish state.

Not officially, but previous administrations have dealt with such terrorists unofficially, when it suited their purposes.

[Gentle Giant]

Originally Posted by Darryl G. Thomas

One of the positive things about this election is that now Hamas has to do something other than send suicide bombers into Israel. They've got to govern. They were elected because Fatah was corrupt and didn't deliver basic services to the people like security and a working economy.

It's easy to just throw bombs when you're on the outside. But now you've got to create a workable state.

As Bill Belichick would say, it is what it is. Bush is already talking about not recognizing the government if they have an armed wing. If Israel starts talking tough as well, it will only give Hamas the leverage to continue in their ways and link the US and Israel as a common enemy. We need to let the Palestinian government form and show what direction they will take, before we decide whether we like them or not.

[tristano's ghost]

God forbid--the Palestinians have elected a party of religious militants who preach fundamentalism & threaten violence against their "enemies." I'm just relieved that no such wingnuts control the seat of government in our country.

[Scott Dolan]

Hopefully our next suicide bomber will be at your favorite grocery store at the same time as you.

[tristano's ghost]

Spare me your alleged concern for the victims of suicide bombers. I sure haven't seen any compassion or concern from you for the innocent Iraqi victims of American air attacks, checkpoint shootings, the people we blew apart with bunker busters in our attempt to get Saddam during the war, etc... not to mention the thousands of Palestinians killed by the Israelis during their particular conflict. I won't wish violence upon YOU, however, because I'm not a sick hypocrite.

Enjoy three more years of the Bush regime. They love chumps like you.

[Scott Dolan]

And ignorant douchebags like you just make that party even stronger.

If folks like you, who seem so concerned about the country, would learn to temper your own over the top rhetoric and create an atmosphere for change, then you'd really have something. .

But, you'd rather present your black vs. white view of the country comepletely clueless to the fact that you are doing the same exact thing that those you hate engage in everyday. It's folks like you that contribute to the constant pushing and pulling.

You're just too full of yourself to realize that. It's simple laziness.

So just continue to paint me as you like, it's your downfall, and the downfall of your fellow loons.

[tristano's ghost]

Originally Posted by Scott Dolan

Hopefully our next suicide bomber will be at your favorite grocery store at the same time as you.

WTF is wrong with you, Dolan? Why do you always insist on reducing political discussion to a nasty, personalized discourse? I don't know what your stance is on Alito, but suppose you came out in support of him... and then I said, "Great, I hope your wife becomes pregnant and can't safely deliver the baby and dies because abortion is outlawed?"

WTF is wrong with you? Grow up, son.

[Scott Dolan]

I'll grow up when you take your blinders off.

Deal?

And go to the Alito thread to find out my thoughts on him. If your heart can take it.

[Squaredancecalling Steve]

Interesting points by Oaktown mayor Jerry Brown: by participating in the elections, Hamas implicitly accepts the Oslo Accords that created the PA. And being in power will force them to deal with Israel on issues like water and power. We'll see whether or not this mutes their policies and rhetoric.

[tristano's ghost]

Originally Posted by Scott Dolan

And ignorant douchebags like you just make that party even stronger.

If folks like you, who seem so concerned about the country, would learn to temper your own over the top rhetoric and create an atmosphere for change, then you'd really have something. .

But, you'd rather present your black vs. white view of the country comepletely clueless to the fact that you are doing the same exact thing that those you hate engage in everyday. It's folks like you that contribute to the constant pushing and pulling.

You're just too full of yourself to realize that. It's simple laziness.

So just continue to paint me as you like, it's your downfall, and the downfall of your fellow loons.

Anything to the left of Bill O'Reilly is loonland to you, O'Dolan. Willful blindness from alleged independent conservatives like you to the theocratic thugs who are currently running this country plays a big part in keeping them in power. If you can't see the hypocrisy of a Bush administration that proclaims its love of democracy and then goes sour whenever someone they like doesn't win--a Bush administration that is attempting to turn our own country into a theocracy, and that launched an incredibly violent war against a country that posed no threat to us--again, maturity, maturity. Whether in politics or in personal life.

What a laughable post. The GOP has been pushing a divide-and-conquer policy since '68... Karl Rove is the top strategist in the adminstration... and you, as always, blame the liberals. And get all agitated when liberals don't take it. Sorry, but I'm not going to be a milquetoasty Coomes to your maniacal Sean Hannity act.

[tristano's ghost]

Originally Posted by Squaredancecalling Steve

Interesting points by Oaktown mayor Jerry Brown: by participating in the elections, Hamas implicitly accepts the Oslo Accords that created the PA. And being in power will force them to deal with Israel on issues like water and power. We'll see whether or not this mutes their policies and rhetoric.

My guess is that Hamas will do a dance between non-violent assimilation and continued harsh rhetoric. Power brings responsibility... but no guarantee of how it will be handled. I'm more interested in how the U.S. and Israel will act at this point--they hold the cards.

[tristano's ghost]

Originally Posted by Darryl G. Thomas

I was listening to a former Israeli government official on the radio this morning. The jist of his comments was that democracy can be bad if the wrong cats get elected.

That's the funny thing about the Middle East and democracy. You may not like the guys who win.

Exactly. I mean, these guys did their best to wipe out the PA in the past 5-6 years, and now they're surprised that Hamas has come to power? And the world leaders who are "shocked" (shocked, I tell you, shocked!) that the Palestinians apparently don't see fit to elect whomever the West wants them to... Look, I don't think this is a good thing, but it's sure no surprise. Anybody who follows Middle East politics could've told you that this was coming... anybody who's truly "shocked" must've had their heads buried in the sands of the West Bank.

Foreign Leaders Shocked at Hamas Win By JOHN LEICESTER, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 11 minutes ago



PARIS - World leaders, uneasy at the prospect of a Hamas-led Palestinian government, immediately exerted pressure on the Islamic militants Thursday to recognize Israel and renounce violence as a precondition for support.

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That a group listed as a terrorist organization by the European Union and the United States won seemingly fair-and-square at the ballot box compounded the dilemma for foreign governments. While they welcomed the smooth running of the Palestinian legislative elections, the militants' stunning showing also unsettled many and threw Middle East peacemaking into turmoil.

"Hamas won," said Nobel Peace Prize winner Elie Wiesel. "Hamas is surely not a democratic movement. Its ideas are surely not humanistic ideas.

"What do we do now?"

European governments and the United States presented a united front — insisting that Hamas renounce violence and recognize Israel's right to exist — and planned meetings to coordinate their response. A senior European Parliament lawmaker, Elmar Brok, warned of a possible cutoff of European Union aid for the Palestinians if Hamas does not change its policies.

"You cannot have one foot in politics and another in terror," said U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, adding that for the United States, Hamas is still a terrorist organization.

"The whole of the international community has the responsibility to accept the outcome of any fair and democratic election," said British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw. "But in this case Hamas has a clear responsibility to understand that with democracy goes a rejection of violence."

British Prime Minister Tony Blair's spokesman was blunt: "We can only do business with people who renounce terrorism," he said.

Concern crossed political divides, with traditional supporters of the Palestinian cause — such as Italy's center-left opposition — among those expressing concern. The Italian government said Hamas' victory could indefinitely postpone any chance of Israeli-Palestinian peace and make the creation of a Palestinian state more difficult.

"It is a very, very, very bad result," Italian news agencies quoted Premier Silvio Berlusconi as saying.

Rice was due to meet in London on Monday with U.N., Russian and European leaders as the so-called "Quartet" evaluates the election results and tries to decide how to proceed with peacemaking efforts.

EU foreign ministers meeting Monday also will discuss the 25-nation bloc's response.

In the Arab and Islamic worlds, some were jubilant. Hamas' win topped the news on state-run radio in Iran — which is accused by Israel and the United States of supplying Hamas and other Palestinian militants with weapons and funding.

"This is a victory to all the region's free people," said Ayyoub Muhanna, a 29-year-old who owns a spare parts shop in Lebanon. "The Palestinians gave their vote to the party that gave of its blood."

In Pakistan, a lawmaker from the hard-line Islamic opposition said Israel and the United States would be enemies of democracy if they refused to negotiate with a Hamas-led government. An Islamic leader in Indonesia said Hamas' win must be recognized as an expression of Palestinian aspirations.

"Hamas' victory heralds a change in the entire region. This symbolizes that Islamic groups are getting successful," said the Pakistani lawmaker, Liaqat Baluch.

Japan hailed the successful holding of elections as "an important step toward building a democratic Palestinian state" but also said it expects the Palestinian Authority "to control the extremists" and work for peace.

Israel, the United States and the European Union have said they would not deal with a government led by Hamas, which has carried out dozens of suicide bombings, seeks Israel's destruction and has said that it opposes peace talks and will not disarm.

Sweden's foreign minister, Laila Freivalds, said Hamas' showing was "a protest against those in power who have not done enough, a reaction to the incapacity to lead the political process forward."

But she said the 25-nation EU cannot cooperate with Hamas unless it changes its policies. In France, the prime minister said renouncing violence, accepting progress toward peace, recognizing Israel and the Oslo peace accords were "indispensable" conditions for working with "a Palestinian government of any kind."

"These (election) results may confront us with an entirely new situation which will need to be analyzed," said EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana.

The EU has given millions of euros (dollars) in aid to the Palestinian Authority to help reconstruction efforts in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank — funding that was called into question following Hamas' win.

"It is obvious that the EU would never countenance funding a regime that continued an armed fight against Israel," said Ignasi Guardans, a Spanish member of the European Parliament. "But we cannot push for democracy and then deny the result of free and fair elections."

[Darryl G. Thomas]

t.g.,

Why should Hamas give a crap about what international leaders are saying? Alright, they're talking about cutting funds to the PA. The average Palestinian hasn't seen a dime of that money so they aren't going to miss it.

Now if the Hamas leaders want to get rich like Arafat then that type of pressure will work.

And Rice talking about having one foot in violence and one in diplomacy? There's a bunch of dead Iraquis rolling over in their graves over that one. I can just see the stereotypical Arab Street rolling their collective eyes.

This kind of reminds me of Iraq. We (the West) think we can dictate to these cats and they're going to do whatever the hell they want to do.

[Gary Sisco]

Hamas is succeeding by doing the political work that counts -- which isn't running the mouth but working in the neighborhood. People pay attention to those who do. The people in the neighborhood could give a flying fuck what Dolan or any gringo thinks and, indeed, why should they?

I have no political truck with any faction of that struggle or of the Israeli state, either, but Hamas is gaining political ground the only way it's gained -- working doing real work at the most local level. Matters not what your politics is, that's the way ground is gained.

The PA's never done anything but line each other's pockets.

Hey, you wanted democracy and voting. You got it. No one ever said people'd vote the way any gringo wants them to vote once they got to vote. Ditto in Iraq. Or anywhere.

That's the breaks.

Too bad.

[Gentle Giant]

Originally Posted by Squaredancecalling Steve

Interesting points by Oaktown mayor Jerry Brown: by participating in the elections, Hamas implicitly accepts the Oslo Accords that created the PA. And being in power will force them to deal with Israel on issues like water and power. We'll see whether or not this mutes their policies and rhetoric.

An item I read today seems to refute this.

Israel ponders response after Hamas win
By Aron Heller, Associated Press Writer | January 26, 2006

JERUSALEM --Israeli officials convened emergency meetings on Thursday to decide how to respond to the militant Hamas group's upset victory in Palestinian elections, maintaining an outward silence while privately blaming each other for the upheaval.

Hamas' stunning showing in Wednesday's vote could send tremors through Israel's own political establishment ahead of March elections by bolstering hawks who oppose territorial concessions to the Palestinians.

Official results in the Palestinian balloting aren't expected before late Thursday, but leaders of both the ruling Fatah Party and Hamas said that Hamas, which has masterminded dozens of suicide bombings against Israel, won a majority of Palestinian seats in its first legislative run.

Before the vote, Israel had assumed Hamas would at best be a junior partner in the government, and formulated no public position on how to deal with it.

The militants' surprisingly strong showing threw officials scrambling into action.

Israel's acting prime minister, Ehud Olmert, was to convene his Cabinet and security advisers following the announcement of official results later Thursday, and top security and foreign ministry officials met early in the day to discuss the implications. So, too, did the Likud and Labor parties.

Politicians, academics and analysts were wary, for the most part, of Hamas' rise to power.

Mideast peace accords of the 1990s stipulated that no terror group could participate in Palestinian elections, but Israel was unable to drum up international support for barring the group from contesting the democratic vote.

Right-wing lawmaker Yuval Steinitz of the hardline Likud Party said that's where Israel went wrong.

"This is a tragic failure in the war against Hamas," Steinitz told Israel Radio. "We alone let elections take place with the participation of a terror group that calls for our destruction."

World leaders, uneasy at the prospect of a Hamas-led Palestinian government, immediately exerted pressure on the Islamic militants to recognize Israel and renounce violence as a precondition for ties.

But Israeli politicians were skeptical of the world's resolve.

"After Hamas is elected, can the world not talk to them?" former Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom told Army Radio. "The world will speak to them saying that they were elected in a democratic process ... I think if we had prevented them from participating in the elections this wouldn't have happened."

Lawmaker Ephraim Sneh of the dovish Labor Party said Israel was in part to blame for Hamas' victory by not making concessions to Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas that would have boosted his standing in the Palestinian public.

Commentators have interpreted the Hamas victory as a protest against Fatah's corruption and inability to restore law and order to chaotic Palestinian streets.

While Hamas didn't pose an existential threat to Israel, "it's a threat to the normal life of Israel if at our doorstep we have a terrorism state," Sneh told CNN.

The upheaval in the Palestinian Authority could sway Israeli elections by fanning hardline sentiments.

Political analyst Hanan Crystal said Hamas' election win would be the main issue in Israel's March elections, predicting it could hurt center-left parties and benefit the hawkish Likud, which opposed Israel's summer withdrawal from the Gaza Strip.

Likeliest to suffer is Kadima, the centrist party Ariel Sharon formed in November, after breaking away from Likud, to seek more leeway in setting Israel's final borders. Kadima maintained a strong lead in pre-election polls, even after Sharon was incapacitated by a stroke.

Likud's leader, former Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, warned that Hamas' dramatic election victory would turn the Palestinian Authority into a radical, Islamic regime.

"It doesn't matter how much makeup they put on Hamas, it will remain the same Hamas," Netanyahu said. "We can't reach understandings with Hamas because their goal is to destroy Israel."

Most Israelis remained skeptical of Hamas' changing its ways, despite its adherence to a year-old truce, but some said the group's electoral victory could lead to a further drop in violence.

"I believe Hamas would like to be part of the political process and will be willing to make some concessions, at least on the declarative level," said Joseph Nevo, a professor of Middle East History at Haifa University.

Left-wing lawmaker Ran Cohen told Army Radio that victory could make Hamas more pragmatic.

"If the Hamas wants to talk about a solution of two states for two peoples, the significance is essentially recognizing the state of Israel, and that means we need to talk, first and foremost about stopping the terror," he said.

Israel Hasson, a former top Shin Bet official, agreed.

"As soon as Hamas talks to us, it's not Hamas any longer," he said.

[groover]

If the majority of Palestinians want a war to the death with Israel, that's what they will get, whether Hamas is officially or unofficially the ruling party. Might as well get it out into the open and get on with it. Yahoo, it's Armageddon time!

[jeff54]

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

Hamas is succeeding by doing the political work that counts -- which isn't running the mouth but working in the neighborhood. People pay attention to those who do. The people in the neighborhood could give a flying fuck what Dolan or any gringo thinks and, indeed, why should they?

I have no political truck with any faction of that struggle or of the Israeli state, either, but Hamas is gaining political ground the only way it's gained -- working doing real work at the most local level. Matters not what your politics is, that's the way ground is gained.

The PA's never done anything but line each other's pockets.

Hey, you wanted democracy and voting. You got it. No one ever said people'd vote the way any gringo wants them to vote once they got to vote. Ditto in Iraq. Or anywhere.

That's the breaks.

Too bad.

That is exactly right Gary. The fact of the matter is that the Palestinians were left with two bad choices. One the one hand was Fatah who did nothing to improve their lives, and indeed did much to make them worse, and as you said was extremly corrupt and ineffective at enforcing any rules of law. On the other was Hamas who at least made some difference in their day to day lives but will certainly set back the peace process. Given how poorly Fatah did at acheiving peace I'm not surprised the Palesistinian people went with the group that they think at least won't rob them blind.

[Sergio Zamora]

I found this article on the 'wavelet' (the blogger's word) of electoral victories by different regional factions of political islam pretty interesting. I think Hiro falls short of explaining the distinctions, but he at least makes it clear this is not a single unified movement. I think your average westerner does not differentiate between, for example, Hizbollah and Al-Qaeda

http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?pid=52243