Kiri Te Kanawa

[Stormcrow]

Dame Kiri is probably my favorite classical/opera singer, tho I am not incredibly fond of her pop work. (leave Gershwin to Ella, Kiri. ) Anybody else enjoy her work?

[RainyDay]

When I studied classical some years ago, my teacher wanted Kiri to be my role model. Didn't she record West Side Story with Bernstein? I recall she had a hard time with it.

[Pete C]

Theophilus, do you know Songs of the Auvergne?

[moneyp]

Originally posted by RainyDay
When I studied classical some years ago, my teacher wanted Kiri to be my role model. Didn't she record West Side Story with Bernstein? I recall she had a hard time with it.

Bernstein himself gave her the hard time. There's a documentary about the making of that project. I'm no expert on classical singing, but she sounds sounds very much like Kiri Te Kanawa singing West Side Story, lovely but very out of place alongside Jose Carreras and Tatiana Troyanos.

[Chaz Longue]

I don't know Kiri Te Kanawa's work. I'll check her out.

But I like the hell out of Audra McDonald.

[BFrank]

I like her name.

[walto]

"Anybody else enjoy her work?"

Me.

[john williams]

The good Dame is pretty popular here in Australia.

She was in heartstoppingly good form at the dawn concert on new year's day 2000 in New Zealand.

[Stormcrow]

Originally posted by JBW
The good Dame is pretty popular here in Australia.

She was in heartstoppingly good form at the dawn concert on new year's day 2000 in New Zealand.

I read about that concert. :-)

Pete, that album is at the top of my to-get list, along with a million other things. ;-) I'll have to see if BMG has it.

[Monte Smith]

I'd love to know the skinny on her name. It's an odd one.

[hornplayer]

I like her singing opera, but NOT AT ALL when she tries to do Jazz or show tunes. That is downright comical, imo.

[Pete C]

Originally posted by Monte Smith
I'd love to know the skinny on her name. It's an odd one.

Maori.

[Monte Smith]

Originally posted by Pete C
Maori.

Huh! Well that makes sense. For some resaon I always thought she was a Kiwi married to a Japanese or something. But she herself is Maori.

[jazzy mary]

I saw her at the Met in one of the "Barber of Seville" operas She was magnificent. She's a very beautiful woman too. It's almost always unsuccessful,and even unfortunate, when classical singers try to sing the GAS or other show tunes. It's like how the classical pianists all want to be able to play jazz. It almost NEVER works. The two types of music are altogether different "animals". They come from completely different places. I don't have time to go into the different places now--let's just say Europe and Africa to keep it simple.

[Pete C]

Eileen Farrell was an excellent singer of jazz/GAS, because she wisely chose to leave her classical voice at home when she did that material.

There are those instrumentalists who are comfortable in both worlds--Previn & Jarrett on piano, plenty of bass players...

I found those Grappelli/Menhuin collabs a joke--Yehudi played "improvisations" that were composed and written down for him!

[Jimmy Cantiello]

I'm with you on Jarrett but Previn needs to take that cork out of his ass when playing Jazz.......................

[walto]

Jarrett's not really much of a classical perfomer, IMHO. Just trading on his name rec. Corea's even worse. I've seen both of them butcher relatively easy concertos in concert. W. Marsalis is a very solid classical trumpeter, though.

BTW, Dan Warburton has beautifully pointed out in a review of some horrible Leo disc, that, because of their touch, classical pianists often come off as "twee" when they try their hands at free improv.

[Stormcrow]

Originally posted by hornplayer
I like her singing opera, but NOT AT ALL when she tries to do Jazz or show tunes. That is downright comical, imo.

I agee 100%.

[Pete C]

Originally posted by Jimmy Cantiello
Previn needs to take that cork out of his ass when playing Jazz.......................

I hope Dennis G doesn't get any Photoshop ideas...

[tippy]

It seems to me that opera singers fail to sing jazz well because they sing jazz in their classical voice--high, with all that vibrato. Jazz is an entirely different style that seems to actually require a different placement of the voice..."deeper" (for lack of better word at this moment) and sans vibrato...which is harder to do.

I hope cookie will chime in because I have always wondered about the difference (if there is supposed to be one) between voice placement in opera and jazz. I have found classical singing to be far more effortless and natural than singing jazz and wondered why, from a purely physical standpoint, that might be so. Because if anything I expect it to be opposite...that opera should be harder. Yet it is not. What gives?

[mke]

Originally posted by tippy
opera should be harder. Yet it is not. What gives?

It's all a fraud!

[Jimmy Cantiello]

Classical clarinetist Richard Stoltzman is tre stiff when he attempts to play Jazz. On the other hand, classical trumpeter Allen Vizzutti can pull it off with ease, IMO.................

[Pete C]

Originally posted by tippy
It seems to me that opera singers fail to sing jazz well because they sing jazz in their classical voice--high, with all that vibrato. Jazz is an entirely different style that seems to actually require a different placement of the voice..."deeper" (for lack of better word at this moment) and sans vibrato...which is harder to do.

I hope cookie will chime in because I have always wondered about the difference (if there is supposed to be one) between voice placement in opera and jazz. I have found classical singing to be far more effortless and natural than singing jazz and wondered why, from a purely physical standpoint, that might be so. Because if anything I expect it to be opposite...that opera should be harder. Yet it is not. What gives?

I don't know about the relative ease of different vocal styles for women, but I'm dubious about the above claims. Perhaps it's more of a natural range thing that Tippy is talking about? At any rate, jazz or pop is not sung without vibrato--the degree varies based on stylistic choice. All vocal styles use "head" & "chest" tones to get an ultimate range (& the trick is making the transition seem seamless). Maybe on the most superficial level soprano voice seems more inclined toward head than chest? I don't know. My guess it's easier to get away with singing jazz or pop poorly than opera or lieder.

I do agree that the problem is that most classical singers (other than Farrell) don't make the right shifts in style to pull off jazz/pop. Yet some people seem to enjoy the treacle they produce.

Perhaps it's more natural to sing in a superficial "classical sounding" voice for women--like Joan Baez, Judy Collins and other non-singers of their ilk.

[jazzy mary]

Opera and classical singing are hard! And when they are done right--oh, it's *so* beautiful!!! I think the "heart and soul" of a song and the beautiful LYRICS to the GAS are what trip up classically trained singers. The lyrics to opera can be beautiful but they are basically to propel the story along, to tell what's going on. With a Gershwin tune or Lorenz Hart--oh my God, it's *all* about the lyrics and what they inspire in your thoughts, emotions, heart and soul, IMHO.

[Sergio Zamora]

Originally posted by tippy
Because if anything I expect it to be opposite...that opera should be harder. Yet it is not. What gives?

The secret is the Viking helmets.

[Pete C]

Originally posted by jazzy mary
The lyrics to opera can be beautiful but they are basically to propel the story along, to tell what's going on. With a Gershwin tune or Lorenz Hart--oh my God, it's *all* about the lyrics and what they inspire in your thoughts, emotions, heart and soul, IMHO.

But you're forgetting about lieder, which is all about the marriage of great poetry with music.

I'm not an opera fan at all, but I do enjoy lieder, which doesn't have the same histrionics or bombast. Fischer-Dieskau or Elly Ameling doing Schubert, especially.

[tippy]

Pete, I think you are right that what I am talking about is range. I prefer jazz sung in a lower range...with minimal vibrato. That is my particular taste.

I misspoke about vibrato. I do realize that vibrato is a choice found in all styles. I assigned vibrato to opera because opera singers sing far more often with vibrato than not--vibrato is a prevalent detail of opera vocal production is it not? whereas in pop and jazz it is more decorative. That's my way of thinking about it. To me vibrato can be beautiful but to sing always in vibrato is fussy...I like clean.

[walto]

FWIW, I don't think all operas depend on "histrionics and bombast" (though, admittedly, a lot of 'em do).

[Stormcrow]

A lot of jazz vocalists use vibrato... Sarah and Ella come to mind.

Sarah probably could have made it big in the opera world, if she had chosen to do so.

[tippy]

FWIW, I like opera, lieder and jazz (and not in that order). Like jazz, the more I listen to opera, the more I like opera.