John Coltrane: 1965

john williams · June-18th-2003, 07:41 AM

1965 is perhaps the most exciting and productive year in Trane's life. I thought it might be an interesting topic of discussion. I hope it hasn't been done to death but more often than not I will choose to listen to Coltrane's recordings from 1965.

First Meditations gets my vote, as it is one of the most beautiful statements in Trane's discography. I guess my second vote would be for Sun Ship for its sheer visceral excitement contrasted with breathtaking beauty. However, I play FM much more often and feel emtionally/spiritually/whatever nourished afterwards. Much of Trane's output has this effect, but none as much as First Meditations for me.

I hope the no one objects to the inclusion of the two questionable items above but someone may truly believe ACs string arrangements are grand and the last three tracks from DOS are their favorite.

Salvador Dali Lama · June-18th-2003, 08:31 AM

I'm glad to see you're so into First Meditations JBW. Until now, the only people I know that are really into that record are Scott and myself. Its not even like music, its something totally different.

My vote goes to sun ship though, thats just the penultimate peice of music in my opinion.

Tanager · June-18th-2003, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Salvador Dali Lama
My vote goes to sun ship though, thats just the penultimate peice of music in my opinion.

So what's the ultimate piece, then?

shrugs · June-18th-2003, 08:42 AM

re: First Meditations
I think you would be surprised at how many people love that recording. I remember talks at JCS(when the music section's topics would actually roll over by lunch) about it and most people considered it a high point.
I have to admit that I have not listened to many of these in a long time. I love Coltrane but I just never had one of those Coltrane binges where all one does for weeks is listen to him. I am going to have to listen to some more in the future. I guess there has been so much new music coming out lately and I have discovered so much stuff on vinyl that is basically unheard by most that I spend most of my time catching up with those recordings.

john williams · June-18th-2003, 08:50 AM

Shrugs: I have just commenced one of those binges you speak of and its really taking a hold.

SDL: It is an almost an impossible choice for me between SS & FM and on a different day I would have voted for Sun Ship. I am also curious about which is the ultimate recording in your view.

Salvador Dali Lama · June-18th-2003, 08:51 AM

there is no ultimate peice. if there was, all would cease to be. dig?

but if there WAS an ultimate, it would probably be sun ship.

65 was such a great year, and its all great music, but elvin's playing on sun ship just keeps me coming back to it again and again.

my favorite peice of music ever, right there. which is funny because I don't listen to it much. Its too exhausting for me usually.

bluenoter · June-18th-2003, 08:58 AM

I'm not ready to vote yet. My instinctive choice would be Dear Old Stockholm, but can I really forget about the two cuts from 1963 and vote only for the three cuts from 1965? Transition is right up there for me, but I loved it so much when I got it that I "overplayed it" and hence don't play it very often now. Time to revisit it! Meditations (not First Meditations, which I still haven't heard) is close behind, but I'd want to revisit that one too before I voted for it.

I'm mindful of all the praise for Sun Ship, but I never warmed up to it. Still, there's always a first time--I'd better revisit that one too.

June-18th-2003, 09:09 AM

A hard choice here. What a year for Coltrane!

I actually ended up going for "John Coltrane Quartet Plays..." It may only be a first step toward his groundbreaking experimentations of the year, but that is the 65 Coltrane record that I find myself reaching for the most. That is especially true since they added the phenomenal live recording of "Nature Boy" to the CD version.

"First Meditations" is a close second. And the rest of 'em ain't half bad.

I even like the one that is conspicuosly missing from the list: "OM."

Brian Olewnick · June-18th-2003, 09:16 AM

I went for the Seattle date.

Tanager · June-18th-2003, 09:55 AM

I love both Quartet Plays... and Transition immensely. I went with Transition.

Dear Old Stockholm is another fave, but I agree - what an incredible outpouring of fantastic music.

I'm thinking of embarking on a Trane binge myself.

Rob C · June-18th-2003, 10:23 AM

I had to go for First Meditations, too. I've never really warmed to the sextet Meditations, but I love the quartet version. I haven't listend to too much Coltrane of late, either, and I need to rectify. (Though I did put on Giant Steps for the first time in many moons last weekend.)

MRS · June-18th-2003, 10:30 AM

I'll go with "Live in Seattle. . ." the immediacy of the recording and the smokiness of the sound always intrigued me.

Sal I agree about being unable to digest my most treasured/beloved recordings very often. Mingus' "Live at Antibes '61" is an example of this--just too incredible and overwhelming to repeatedly play, even after years of study and goosebumps.

Tanager · June-18th-2003, 12:13 PM

Well, looking over at the recent ALS thread, is it unreasonable to include disk 2 of the "deluxe" reissue, since it contains the live performance of ALS from 1965?

Just wondering, but it seems to me that that belongs on the list of candidates.

Steve Reynolds · June-18th-2003, 01:48 PM

I went with Meditations - although it was tough choice over First Meditations

LeMo · June-18th-2003, 01:54 PM

I, also, love "First Meditations".
I find it better than the sextet version of "Meditations" (but I listen time to time to it also) and superior as "A Love Supreme" (the studio version I mean, the live is something different and, for my taste, superior).

But the "Ultimate" Coltrane for me, my favorite JC of all time is "Interstellar Space".

In my mind this album belongs up there with Bach Suite for cello, Beethoven quartet n°14, Bartok's first sonata for violin & piano, Schoenberg String Trio, Alban Berg opera's "Lulu", Olivier Messiaen "Quartet for the end of the Time".
And, IMO, in jazz or improvised music it has no equal until today.

Tanager · June-18th-2003, 01:59 PM

I bought Interstellar Space on the rec of JC folks, but it just doesn't click for me (or maybe it just hasn't clicked yet).

Brian Olewnick · June-18th-2003, 02:04 PM

I'm inclined to agree with Lemo vis a vis "Interstellar Space" and its position in Coltrane's oeuvre.

mke · June-18th-2003, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brian Olewnick
I'm inclined to agree with Lemo vis a vis "Interstellar Space" and its position in Coltrane's oeuvre.

Man, just about everyone agrees with LeMo, it's no fun. Disagree with him and see what happens!

MRS · June-18th-2003, 03:01 PM

Evan Parker fervently claims that Trane employs alto on "Interstellar Space." I tend to disagree. . .very good date though I don't regard it as highly as LeMo. There. . .I've formally disagreed with LeMo.

shrugs · June-18th-2003, 03:53 PM

no equal?

Two that come to mind immediately.....

Nefertiti, The Beautiful One Has Come
For Alto

and another

Keith Rowe A Dimension Of Perfectly Ordinary Reality

LeMo · June-18th-2003, 06:59 PM

As I told, it's my opinion.
Nobody's oblige to agreed, of course.

I think than "Nefertiti" it's one of the most important jazz record ever.
"For Alto" is on the very same category.
This means that they contain some of the best XX century music ever recorded (in spite than the sound is far too be good for both).

I like also very much the two artists. No problem with that either.

But aniway, for me "Interstellar space" is the quintessential Coltrane, the greatest artist jazz has ever produced.
The man touch me more than any other jazz artist, artisticaly, spiritually (and I'm not a bit mystic, believe me) and, yes, physically.
When I was younger this music ("Interstellar Space" and some others) gives me an incredible energy and calmed me down in the same time.

Cecil Taylor? The energy there, was, sometime, terrifying.
I can listen to Coltrane in any mental state. I can't do that with Cecil.

Once, one of my friend who knows Anthony Braxton and was even his guest, told me that he asks him, as AB plays nearly all reeds instruments, why he doesn't, ever, play the tenor? Braxton answer was: "How to escape to Mister Coltrane's influence?"

So, "Interstellar" come first for me.
I'm a Coltrane addict. That's how it is.

- m.k.e, I'm just waiting for our next meeting impatiently...

(Sorry if all this "statement" sounds a little pompous).

Tanager · June-18th-2003, 07:03 PM

I don't think it's pompous at all, LeMo. I don't really agree re: Interstellar Space, but I think it's great that you love an artist's work with so much passion without being too evangelistic about it.

I also find that Trane moves me in ways that few others do.

HLJ · June-18th-2003, 08:58 PM

65 is when I got off the Trane as much as I love his work after "A Love Supreme" I just wasn't feeling him.Peace and all that.

Pete C · June-18th-2003, 09:14 PM

For some more context on the period, here's a link to a relevant thread I started on the old board:

Jazz 1963-65

Pete C · June-18th-2003, 09:43 PM

1965 was also the year of "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag."

Corey Lareau · June-18th-2003, 09:46 PM

there's a reason my email is what it is...sunship@...
that album is exhausting -- in a spiritual uplift sort of way
from the frenetic to the calm.
but i also like everything i've heard. really.
looking at that list of 65 albums and thinking of today's "rockstars" putting one album out a year...pathetic.
Mr. Coltrane just simply didn't have enough time to share all the music he had.
Or maybe God got jealous of all we heard and wanted to hear it for him/her/it/self...
...just my couple o' copper
--Corey

Brian Olewnick · June-18th-2003, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LeMo
Once, one of my friend who knows Anthony Braxton and was even his guest, told me that he asks him, as AB plays nearly all reeds instruments, why he doesn't, ever, play the tenor? Braxton answer was: "How to escape to Mister Coltrane's influence?"

Tell your friend that Braxton plays tenor on "Six Compositions: Quartet" on Antilles from 1981. Not sure if that's the only occasion.

Pete C · June-18th-2003, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Corey Lareau

Or maybe God got jealous of all we heard and wanted to hear it for him/her/it/self...

How very Old Testament...

john williams · June-18th-2003, 11:34 PM

Thanks for all the great responses folks.

Thanks for the link Pete.

I agree with those folks who said they can't listen to their favorite albums all the time. I haven't had a Trane binge in about two years although I have played the odd earlier album here and there. But when I play any post ALS Trane I tend to binge. Last night I played Transition, Sun Ship and First Meditations all of which are incredible.

Tanager: sorry about not including the live ALS album it just didn't occur to me as I don't own it. I used to have a cheapy Trane album "Live at Antibes" with ALS live. Is that the same version?

Pete C · June-19th-2003, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JBW
I used to have a cheapy Trane album "Live at Antibes" with ALS live. Is that the same version?

Yes, that's apparently the only time it was performed live.