BEGINNER - I NEED SUGGESTIONS

[evergone]

hi, i am extremely new to jazz. i have been listening to jazz on the radio for quite some time and am in love with it, but i have no idea where to begin. basically, i know names and reputations, but i don't know albums or songs. anyone's help is appreciated...
if you could list a few "essential" albums, it would be great. i just want to know which albums to buy. i want to know the classics(Coltrane, Davis, Ellington, Armstrong,Parker), i know i enjoy there music on the radio, but i don't know the right albums to buy. i am ready to jump into it, so i don't want Greatest Hits collections, i want the best classic jazz albums, the ones that changed the way people looked at it. i am coming from a rock background, so basically i want the Pet Sounds or Sgt. Peppers of jazz if you will. thank you so much for all your help and hopefully i'll be here more often.

[Pete C]

I'm sure you'll get plenty of suggestions here. You might also want to check out the following book. I haven't read it, but there are some good people involved, and it apparently includes an appendix of 100 essential jazz albums compiled by a group of critics. If anybody has read it, perhaps they can give a pro or con.

Jazz: The First Century
by John Edward Hasse

From Library Journal
When Hasse, curator of American music at the Smithsonian Institution, published Beyond Category, a well-received work on Duke Ellington, it established him as a major author. David P. Szatmary's assessment of Beyond Category--"Hasse provides a well-researched synthesis"(LJ 9/15/93)--can easily be applied to this new work, with the difference that Hasse serves as both editor and author (as with his previous Ragtime). Comprising eight chapters (two authored by Hasse, the others by prominent scholars like Bob Blumenthal) that follow a chronological progression from jazz's earliest inclinations through its more recent developments, this also features numerous sidebars. Unlike most sidebars, these prove to be vital and help the narrative flow, e.g., Hasse's "What Does an Arranger Do?" is particularly clear and succinct. Others, such as profiles of cities and recording labels, are also useful. Key recordings are listed with each chapter. The inclusion of information on non-U.S. musicians solidifies this as a major contribution to understanding jazz. With excellent photos; recommended for academic, public, and music libraries.
-William Kenz, Moorhead State Univ. Lib., MN
Copyright 2000 Reed Business Information, Inc.

From Booklist
Compactly covering 100 years' worth of any subject--and pictorially, to boot--usually means scanting huge swatches of noteworthy material. Amazingly, this photo-rich, snappily laid-out survey covers its subject with genuine thoroughness, tracing jazz from its New Orleans origins to its present, evolving status as the most radical brand of world music. The near impossible feat is achieved by having experts on their subjects write the book's eight chapters. Editor Hasse handles the beginnings and the swing era; Downbeat stalwart Neil Tesser writes up mainstream jazz; Ornette Coleman biographer John Litweiler discusses the post-bebop "new thing"; the internationalizing present is limned by Kevin Whitehead, author of the indispensable New Dutch Swing (1998); and so forth. Given contributors as canny as these, all the names and events that ought to be mentioned are, and the chapter-concluding 10 key recordings lists are solid gold. Sure, a compendium like Joachim Ernst Berendt's Jazz Book (6th ed., 1992) mentions more, but more stodgily and without the great pictures. Ray Olson

[Sergio Zamora]

Everyone's gonna chime in with a list, but I think there are a few albums that almost everyone agrees with. Here are some:

Charlie Parker - Quintet at Massey Hall
Miles Davis - Kind of Blue
Thelonious Monk - Monk's Music
John Coltrane - A Love Supreme
Charles Mingus - Mingus Ah Um
Duke Ellington - Far East Suite


This is a very limited list, and covers a rather narrow area of the music. There's A LOOOOOT more to recommend that goes far beyond the boundaries, but let's go one step at a time.

Also, other more knowledgeable posters should recommend some pre-bop stuff.

Here's one approach that I recommend to anyone starting out: Six Degrees of Miles. Here's how it works:

Start buying Miles Davis recordings. The aforementioned KOB is a good place to start. Look at the listing of the sidemen. Get to know their contributions to the Miles discs, and then look for recordings by the sidemen. That'll take you a long way.

This site is good for reference, but take their ratings with a grain of salt.

http://www.allmusic.com

[stonemonkts]

My advice FWIW is to pick up a few classic recordings from each era, spin them for a while, see which ones have an impact, then report back for more suggestions.

Here are my ideas for your first 10:

Louis Armstrong - Hot Fives Vol. 4 w/ Earl Hines (Columbia)

Count Basie - Complete Decca (3 CDs)

Duke Ellington - Blanton-Webster

Thelonious Monk - Brilliant Corners

Charles Mingus - Ah Um

Miles Davis - Kind of Blue

John Coltrane - My Favorite Things

Wayne Shorter - Speak No Evil

Miles Davis - Miles Smiles

Ornette Coleman - Shape Of Jazz To Come


Some (if not all) of those should really get you going. It is impossible to cover even the tiniest sliver of the surface with such a short list, but for me those recordings represent doors into a vast array of wonderful music. If you feel adventurous and want a taste of something a bit more "out", try Eric Dolphy - Out To Lunch. This was far out for me when I was beginning to get into this music, but after a while you'lll discover stuff WAY way out. Just scan the What Are You Listening To thread and punch some titles into AMG.com for descriptions.

This message board should keep you neck deep in CDs (or vinyl if that's your thing).

Good Luck!

[Bill Ashline]

I'll tell you how I first started 20-25 years ago. I began with some fusion which worked as a good bridge with my rock inclinations, and then went to the town library and found the Smithsonian collection of classic jazz box sets, which allowed me to explore the likes of Duke Ellington, Teddy Wilson, Coleman Hawkins, Ben Webster, Lester Young, etc. etc. After that, I went through a big Miles kick. Then a friend introduced me to Sun Ra and the Art Ensemble of Chicago and it was all over. One of the best things I did to learn about jazz was to become a jazz DJ for my university radio station. I was hardly qualified for such a post at that time, but I was wide open and started to really listen to our music library at the station. I learned a hell of a lot. It's amazing what such a job can get you to do and explore. If you have libraries that lend recordings in your area, and many do these days, start off by borrowing things. Get friends to burn you copies of music. And do some reading. I would really recommend Len Lyons' 100 best jazz albums. Read people like Nat Henthoff and Gary Giddens. Start your jazz collecting with an instrument you adore. For me it was reeds. I became a big fan of Sidney Bechet and then from there I went to the three big tenors mentioned above. That's a great inroad to the music. You're a very lucky person to be starting now. you get to hear all this great music with fresh ears. Good luck.

[bluenoter]

Re John Coltrane: With all respect to stonemonkts, I wouldn't recommend My Favorite Things. I'd recommend starting with Giant Steps, Coltrane Live at Birdland, and A Love Supreme, in that order. After that there are any number of possibilities.

I'll look around for a "100 best" list or two for you, but I can't do it right now.

[Sergio Zamora]

Rita,

Why wouldn't you recommend MFT? I probably wouldn't either, but I'm curious about your reasons.

[stonemonkts]

Originally posted by bluenoter
Re John Coltrane: With all respect to stonemonkts, I wouldn't recommend My Favorite Things. I'd recommend starting with Giant Steps, Coltrane Live at Birdland, and A Love Supreme, in that order. After that there are any number of possibilities.

I'll look around for a "100 best" list or two for you, but I can't do it right now.

I had originally typed Giant Steps, but I changed it to MFT for a nice intro into Coltrane with McCoy Tyner. I suppose a beginner should hear Giant Steps before any other Trane...but....and here is where this thread will get off track....Live At Birdland??? If I had to choose a single live Trane recording, it would certainly be the Village Vanguard box set! With all due respect : )

[bluenoter]

Originally posted by Sergio Zamora
Rita,

Why wouldn't you recommend MFT? I probably wouldn't either, but I'm curious about your reasons.

Because I don't like it!

[bluenoter]

Originally posted by stonemonkts
Live At Birdland??? If I had to choose a single live Trane recording, it would certainly be the Village Vanguard box set! With all due respect : )

You betcha, Live at Birdland. It was my first Coltrane, and it made me a fan on the spot. I know I'm not alone in giving it the highest regard, either--but yeah, this thread could easily get sidetracked.

The problem is that the Village Vanguard box set isn't a single live recording--it's a box set. Too expensive for someone who's just trying out Coltrane, I would think. Maybe the VV Master Takes album, but I don't know--what if Evergone doesn't like modal Coltrane such as "India"? I think of that material as being a better choice for later in his or her explorations.

[evergone]

thank you so much to everyone who has and will reply, i will seriously be looking into everything you folks have suggested. i will definitely be reading and listening a lot over the next few months. i don't mind the bickering, i am used to the idiots on rock msg. boards. thanks again.

[frankpop1]

i think u mite like


'yankees' by derek bailey - john zorn - george lewis

that's a classic



'cumbia jazz and fusion' by charlie mingus

[mjb]

Some music I first heard a long time ago and that is a important to me today, up to 40 years later:

Bill Evans Trio - Sunday at the Village Vanguard

Art Pepper - Meets the Rhythm Section

Modern Jazz Quartet - Pyramid

Eric Dolphy - Out to Lunch

Ornette Coleman - The Shape of Jazz to Come

Charlie Byrd Trio - Byrd at the Gate

Andrew Hill - Point of Departure

Grachan Moncur III - Evolution

Bobby Hutcherson - Components

Gary Burton Quartet - Duster

Dexter Gordon - Go

Jackie McLean - Destination Out

Cannonball Adderley - Them Dirty Blues

I can remember the first time I heard "Work Song" and "Dat Dere" - two essential ingredients in the creation of a lifetime habit.

[Tanager]

For a good Parker intro, I'd pick Best of the Complete Savoy and Dial Studio Sessions, if only b/c it gives a bit more of a perspective on the heart of his career in a single disk than Massey Hall. In general, I think beginners are best served by disks which either (a) give an overview of or (b) insight into the "meat" of a player's career, and while Massey is a classic, it's not where I'd point someone to hear the development of Parker or bop.

I've heard that Rhino's Yardbird Suite is a worthy Parker intro, but I've not heard it myself.

I would second the six degrees of Miles approach as good way to explore - start with Kind of Blue and just follow folks' careers.

I also think that beginners would benefit from checking out some Benny Goodman - Sing, Sing, Sing from Bluebird (IIRC) is a nice single-disk intro to his big band sides, albeit not his small-group work.

Another good intro to two genres in one disk is The Amazing Bud Powell, vol. 1, since it also showcases a number of the key players in small-group bop, and it also showcases Bud in a trio setting (and at the height of his powers, no less). This is another "six degrees" disk from which a beginner can discover lots of great players to explore.

[Pete C]

If I had to suggest JUST ONE album it would be Mingus Ah Um.

[evergone]

what should i look into when it comes to Louis Armstrong?

i may do that Miles Davis map thing that someone suggested, but I think I'll start by reading and buying a few classic albums. eventually i'll look into everything else i can find.

is a lot of jazz exclusively vinyl? in other words, how much of it has not been re-issued onto CD. i like vinyl, but i was wondering how much of it has been updated.

thanks again.

[Tanager]

Originally posted by evergone
what should i look into when it comes to Louis Armstrong?

The Hot Fives rec above is a good one.

i may do that Miles Davis map thing that someone suggested, but I think I'll start by reading and buying a few classic albums. eventually i'll look into everything else i can find.

Starting with KOB and following those players will get to you several classic albums, including those by Trane and Bill Evans, both mentioned above.

is a lot of jazz exclusively vinyl? in other words, how much of it has not been re-issued onto CD. i like vinyl, but i was wondering how much of it has been updated.

Most of the "classics" are on CD, but there are doubtless exceptions that folks can cite, depending on what some consider classics (obviously, tastes vary). As for vinyl vs. CD as to what you should buy, that's up to you (and I won't even go there). But you should be able to find all of the recs on this thread on CD without too much effort.

[Pete C]

Originally posted by evergone
what should i look into when it comes to Louis Armstrong?

I'd start with Hot Fives & Sevens, Vol. 3 on JSP. The sound is excellent, the price is right, and it has the classic sides with Earl Hines (including West End Blues and Weather Bird).

Without a doubt the best place to start with Charlie Parker is the Yardbird Suite set, because it collects classic sides from his 3 major labels, as well as earlier stuff with Dizzy and a few air checks of live dates.

[shrugs]

Originally posted by evergone
is a lot of jazz exclusively vinyl? in other words, how much of it has not been re-issued onto CD. i like vinyl, but i was wondering how much of it has been updated.

Are there good vinyl shops in your area?
A lot of the recordings that were on Prestige, Riverside, New Jazz etal have been reissued by Original Jazz Classics or OJC for short. They started with vinyl and a lot of used shops sell them for less than $5. And they sound terrific. So if you have a good source for vinyl, it may be something worth looking into.

[gnhrtg]

(I have not read any of the her posts before posting since I think that different voices recommending the same recordings might be more helpful in making up your mind rather than me looking at what others have said and leaving those out of my list because of redundancy - since there is not way of you knowing why I did not list those recordings)

I'll recommend a somewhat unfocused list of some essentials, leaving out even the relatively mild "free" recordings:

John Coltrane - Blue Train
John Coltrane - Giant Steps
Miles Davis - Kind of Blue
Eric Dolpy - Outward Bound
Charlie Parker - "The Quintet" Live at Massey Hall
Charlie Parker - Bird and Diz
Horace Silver - Song for My Father
Sonny Rollins - Plus 4
Sonny Rollins - Saxophone Colossus
Bud Powell - a quick and dirty way is to pick up the Definitive Records that has the complete master takes for I don't know which sessions but you'll know what I mean when you see it
Louis Armstrong - Hot Fives & Sevens
Thelonious Monk - Genius of Modern Music Vols 1 & 2 (I like one of these quite better than the other but can't recall now, both are great not only for the compositions but also for the blowing of the sidemen)
Johnny Griffin - A Blowin' Session

I think that all of the above are classics.

[Mike Schwartz]

Welcome to a big new wonderful world!

With some stellar suggestions given to you, I'll add another set of ideas, so that you don't think you might 'miss' something.

So many places and sources to hear portions of recordings, go with what your ears tell you you like best, and go from there....collecting jazz and attempting to 'get it right' is an impossible task.

Something I've done since I got here at JC, is to make sure I've gotten to hear and include recordings from JC artists with websites linked here like Robin Eubanks who interacts on the boards frequently, and those like Dennis Gonzalez; his music defines many catagories and at the same time incorperates many that you're sure to love! Same can be said for Ellery Eskelin, Jiveman [trumpeter Phil Grenadier] 'Hearsay' and many more.In my case, since I host a radio broadcast, have had all of the above and many more as guests on the radio/internet. I've learned a lot from them all!

These folks are the life-blood that makes this place happen. They deserve a serious listen with many benefits awaiting you, because they will go a step further with you in most cases and interact directly with you if you choose to ask and want to learn from them...

[bluenoter]

As for vinyl vs. CD as to what you should buy, that's up to you (and I won't even go there). But you should be able to find all of the recs on this thread on CD without too much effort.--Tanager

Evergone asked twice, and I think that bears repeating.

[evergone]

well it will be a while before i get to all of these records, but i am excited to have an idea of where im going. i am currently reading Jazz: The First Century by Hausse (i think) and i'm learning so many new things. i wish i had the money to buy all these classic albums, but i am a student, so that gos without saying. thanks for all your help in finding great records and making me feel welcome. i will be here a lot i'm sure.

[jazzwriter]

Two ALL-TIME classics, IMHO:

The Quintet - Live at Massey Hall

and probably my personal favorite recording ever:

Dizzy Gillespie/Sonny Rollins/Sonny Stitt -
Sonny Side Up

[Dr Dave]

All good recommendations (except "Yankee"...c'mon, baby, don't lay that on him, he just got here!). I particularly like the "Six degrees of Miles Davis" idea, since it will lead you to Wayne Shorter and Herbie Hancock, which will in turn lead you to such diverse artists as Freddie Hubbard, Elvin Jones, Philly Joe Jones, Red Garland, James Spaulding, George Benson, John McLaughlin, Chick Corea, etc., etc....

[shrugs]

evergone, we need to talk about this vinyl interest of yours. These cd things people are talking about are great when it comes to new titles and things that are rare as hens teeth but if you are truly interested in vinyl then it may be your best bet. And actually being able to hear bass and drums how they really sound is a plus as well. Lots of early cd transfer(and many have not been updated) sound like someone fell asleep during the process.
Your location says pa so I am assuming you are in Pennsylvania. Are there any good used record stores nearby? I know of one in Wayne, PA.
And if Princeton, NJ is in driving distance then the Princeton Record Exchange is a must. They have lots of great lp's for way less than what cd's will put you back. When I was there last, my records I bought cost less than 1 cd that my wife bought.

One of the two major seminal players from swing to bop was Dizzy Gillespie.
Diz was also one of the greatest ever trumpeters, and played great ideas without having to destroy his venous system to do it.

It therefore follows that he never had to steal and hock one of his friends horns, or break into pharmacys ;-)

[clinthopson]

I would cerainly consider Miles Davis' "Workin'" "Cookin'" "Steamin'" and "Relaxin'" which I consider right there with KOB.

Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers "Night at Birdland" both volumes.

Bill Evans "Turn Out The Stars" complete box on WB.

Count Basie band with Lester Young

Satch Plays W.C. Handy

Ella and Louis

Woody Herman "Thundering Herds" and "Keeper of the Flame"

Gerry Mulligan Complete Pacific Jazz Recordings w/Chet Baker

And things by Coleman Hawkins, Zoot Sims, Ben Webster, Jimmy Rowles, Jimmy Guiffre.

evergone, you can start buying now and fifty years from now your colection still won't be complete.

[Steve Reynolds]

right - always start with the dead guys

[HLJ]

Some live cats:
Terence Blanchard-Wandering Moon
Wynton Marsalis-Black Codes From The Underground
Greg Osby-Banned In New York
Gil Scott-Winter In America
William Parker-O'Neals Porch
Peace and all that.