LA Jail Race Riots

[Dr Dave]

...but enough about Dick Cheney. So some rich geezer got shot. He's gonna live. Meanwhile, Los Angeles is now in Day Nine of ongoing race riots at its jails. This is from today's Los Angeles Times:

Critics of Jails Voice Alarm
A Baca ally and black leaders join the call for changes in how inmates are housed. The sheriff says the latest racial violence is sporadic.

By Megan Garvey and Richard Winton, Times Staff Writers

The Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department came under growing criticism Monday for its ineffectiveness in halting violence in the county jails that has left two inmates dead and more than 100 injured during nine days of racially charged fighting.

Sheriff Lee Baca, who said Friday that the worst of the violence was over, repeated that assertion Monday. As of late Monday, sheriff's officials had reported no new disturbances.

Baca called the death of a black inmate Sunday after a fight between black and Latino inmates an "isolated incident" and said the most recent fights over the weekend involved relatively small numbers of inmates.

"These are now small, sporadic outbreaks of violence," he said.

But Baca's management of the jail system came under increased criticism from several directions.

County Supervisor Michael Antonovich, who has been a strong supporter of the Sheriff's Department, called the recent disturbances "a breakdown in management." He said the department should have done more to protect blacks, who have been the predominant victims of the attacks.

"The department knew violence was going to occur. They failed to separate inmates. They continue to have a hostile environment," he said, adding that black inmates are suffering because of violence and intimidation directed by Mexican Mafia prison gang leaders.

Antonovich was particularly critical of the department's practice of housing high-security inmates in dormitories, rather than in secure cells.

"The current environment of mixing gang members with non-gang members is equivalent to giving matches to a child. Hard-core gang members shouldn't be in a dormitory environment," he said.

Merrick Bobb, who monitors the Sheriff's Department for the Board of Supervisors, said he believed that the "Sheriff's Department lacks an ability to plan for known risks and contingencies."

Once violence first broke out at the Pitchess Detention Center in Castaic on Feb. 4, the department should have moved quickly to transfer the most violent inmates — those ranked either level 8 or level 9 security risks — out of dormitories and into secure cells, Bobb said. About 3,400 of the jails' roughly 17,000 inmates are ranked level 8 or 9.

Sheriff's Department officials have moved a smaller number of so-called troublemakers at Pitchess out of the general population into cells. They declined to say how many.

"The jails are the stepchild of the system," Bobb said. "Jail inmates and their plight do not attract great public sympathy."

Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa on Monday said that he remained very concerned about "the impact of this conflict on our community."

And black community leaders called for the immediate segregation of all black inmates at Pitchess until a solution to the violence could be found.

"We have seen that the violence has continued against African American inmates," said Earl Ofari Hutchinson of the Los Angeles Urban Policy Roundtable. "Sheriff Lee Baca said we're going to do everything we can to remove the violence-prone inmates from attacking the African American inmates. Well, it hasn't worked."

Right now, only one jail — North County Correctional Facility — at the sprawling Pitchess complex is segregated, which is legally permitted in emergencies. The county system, which averages about 21,000 inmates a day but now has about 17,000, was on full lockdown Monday, meaning no phone privileges, visits, court appearances, newspapers, televisions or radios. Today jail officials plan to remain on modified lockdown to allow transfers of inmates to court and visits with attorneys.

Sheriff's investigators believe that racial tensions have driven much of the violence.

Although the focus has been on Latino inmates attacking blacks, the first killing in the current wave of violence, that of Wayne Tiznor, 45, was instigated largely by white inmates, Baca said Monday.

"We are charging seven people with murder," Baca said. "Three or four of those inmates are white and one was black. Racial epitaphs were yelled during the killing. It was a hate crime. These were white guys proving a point to other inmates."

Jail officials initially described the beating death of Tiznor as being more directly related to an attack by Latino inmates on blacks that they said was ordered by Mexican Mafia prison gang leaders. Tiznor, a convicted rapist, was in jail on a parole violation for failing to register as a sex offender.

Sheriff's officials responded to that unrest, which began with a fight involving 2,000 inmates at Pitchess, by locking down dormitory rooms and temporarily segregating portions of the jail where Latino and black inmates have clashed.

As deputies struggled to gain control of the jail situation, Sheriff's Department officials said they were trying to move hundreds of inmates in county jail on parole violations to state prisons. Officials also want to speed the transfer of inmates recently sentenced to state prison out of the system — both moves that they hope will ease tensions.

"Many of the participants in the fights are parole violators," said Marc Klugman, chief of the sheriff's Correctional Services Division. About 200 parole violators were transferred to state prisons over the weekend and at least a couple hundred more will soon be turned over, he said.

Supervisor Gloria Molina late Monday said she would ask the Board of Supervisors at its meeting today to approve a motion requiring those transfers.

Many corrections experts said the county jail system was prone to racial violence, in large part because jail officials rely on large dorms to house violent offenders. The system allows as many as 280 inmates to be watched by a single guard. But the use of large dorms means that deputies cannot separate inmates into cells when fights break out.

Problems in the jails have been reported for years. Inmate violence has risen significantly in the last two years as an increasing portion of county inmates — now as much as 80% — are known to have gang ties.

A confidential report to the Board of Supervisors in November 2004 warned of dire consequences unless major changes were made to the jail system. The report cited the potential for an inmate takeover at the 6,300-bed Men's Central Jail in downtown Los Angeles.

The report examined the killings of five inmates by other inmates in county jails between October 2003 and April 2004. The report by Bobb blamed those slayings on "lax supervision and a long-standing jail culture that has shortchanged accountability for inmate safety and security."

Bobb cited the "severe and chronic understaffing" of deputies in the jail. Acknowledging a shortage of funds, Bobb said the department could nevertheless radically improve security by overhauling the way it decides where to place inmates.

Among the killings that Bobb examined was that of Kristopher Faye, a black inmate who was stabbed to death with jail-made knives in January 2004 by a group of Latino inmates. Faye had been in an area of the Men's Central Jail when he jumped from an upper to a lower tier to use a pay phone out of turn.

On Monday, Baca provided details of Sunday's death, which also occurred at Men's Central. The fight began in a cell that housed four Latino inmates and two black inmates. Three Latinos tried to take over the bunk considered best for reading.

The 38-year-old inmate who died apparently came to the aid of the older black inmate and was attacked by three Latinos. The man who died, whose name has not been released, was about 6 feet 4 and weighed about 300 pounds, Baca said. Shortly after deputies broke up the fight, the man complained of chest pains and died a short time later.

Villaraigosa said Monday that he had told Baca over the weekend that he was ready to try to help ease tensions in the jails. At the same time, Villaraigosa said he believed that the jail riots originated in a turf battle over drugs between a Latino gang and a black gang that did not reflect wider racial strife in the city.

"I recognize that the situation here has been deteriorating over the last few days," the mayor said, when asked about the jail crisis. "It's not enough just to throw up your hands in exasperation. It is of the utmost concern to all Angelenos."

Times staff writers Jim Newton, Stephen Clark and Jack Leonard contributed to this report.

[Darryl G. Thomas]

Ease tensions in prison? The only way to do that would be through racial segregation (one prison for blacks, another for latinos, another for whites, etc). And you know what? You'd still have prison riots.

[Solo Jazz]

Originally Posted by Darryl G. Thomas

Ease tensions in prison? The only way to do that would be through racial segregation (one prison for blacks, another for latinos, another for whites, etc). And you know what? You'd still have prison riots.

Point!

I think this speaks to the evolution of the spieces or rather lack thereof. Take away, our advanced weapontry and we'd resemble cavemen; a club anyonone?

Regarding prisons: the larger question is, why are there so many people in prisons? Anything approaching a complete answer to this question would, in-part, surely involve a close examination of who WE are as a people.

Expecting people to face the consequences of their behavior is one thing; but when prisons are filling-up to the extent we can't build enough of them, methinks a more indepth analysis/action is REQUIRED!

[Darryl G. Thomas]

Solo,

I believe the explosion in the jail population coincides with the war on drugs.

[Scott Dolan]

Regarding prisons: the larger question is, why are there so many people in prisons?

Cuz they got caught?

[Monte Smith]

Attica! Attica!

[Doc Martin]

[Dr Dave]

What are the stats, I don't remember. We now put a higher percentage of our population in the slam than any other country? That can't be right, but it might be close.

Anyway, that was not the point of posting the story. My own reaction to it was a mix of incredulity and sadness that the underclass in LA are at each other's throats over race. Their behavior plays directly into the hands of a particular kind of conservative thinking, the one that combines good ol' simple racism with a belief that poor people are the sole source of their own misery.

Of course, that's a lotta fuckin' solemn-liberal talk again. Hard to break the habit.

[John P. Cooper]

Originally Posted by Dr Dave

My own reaction to it was a mix of incredulity and sadness that the underclass in LA are at each other's throats over race. Their behavior plays directly into the hands of a particular kind of conservative thinking, the one that combines good ol' simple racism with a belief that poor people are the sole source of their own misery.

So you are saying that the major focus of your dismay is that "a particular kind of conservative thinking, the one that combines good ol' simple racism" now provides 'conservatives' with 'new' grist for their mills?

The 'Hey! Look over here' POV.

Anyone here live in or even near Los Angeles?

[patricia]

I still remember that horrible, horrible prison takeover by the inmates in New Mexico some years ago. The prisoners killed some guards, as well as settling personal scores. Some of the deaths of inmates, and there were many, involved the use of blowtorches as weapons, before it finally got settled, after days of siege.
Prisoners with multiple life sentences in these situations do indeed seem to revert to savagery, with nothing to lose.

[Dr Dave]

Originally Posted by John P. Cooper

So you are saying that the major focus of your dismay is that "a particular kind of conservative thinking, the one that combines good ol' simple racism" now provides 'conservatives' with 'new' grist for their mills?

The 'Hey! Look over here' POV.

Anyone here live in or even near Los Angeles?

Not the major focus, no. I feel bad that these guys lives are so fucked up that they behave this way. What are you so pissed off about?

[rollhead]

Originally Posted by Dr Dave

What are the stats, I don't remember. We now put a higher percentage of our population in the slam than any other country? That can't be right, but it might be close.

Anyway, that was not the point of posting the story. My own reaction to it was a mix of incredulity and sadness that the underclass in LA are at each other's throats over race. Their behavior plays directly into the hands of a particular kind of conservative thinking, the one that combines good ol' simple racism with a belief that poor people are the sole source of their own misery.

Of course, that's a lotta fuckin' solemn-liberal talk again. Hard to break the habit.

The prison population in the U.S. quadrupled in 20 years. From something under 500,000 in 1980 to more than two million in 2000.

Some people claim that this is the highest rate of incarceration, percentagewise, in any country in any time in history.

[Darryl G. Thomas]

Hmmmm... 20 years.

I hate to beat a dead horse but wasn't it 20 years ago that the war on drugs started?

[Solo Jazz]

Originally Posted by rollhead

The prison population in the U.S. quadrupled in 20 years. From something under 500,000 in 1980 to more than two million in 2000.

Some people claim that this is the highest rate of incarceration, percentagewise, in any country in any time in history.

Some JC'er recently shared this enlightened commentary.....

"Regarding prisons: the larger question is, why are there so many people in prisons? Anything approaching a complete answer to this question would, in-part, surely involve a close examination of who WE are as a people.

Expecting people to face the consequences of their behavior is one thing; but when prisons are filling-up to the extent we can't build enough of them, methinks a more indepth analysis/action is REQUIRED!"

I couldn't agree with myself more.... (LoL)

Jean Luc

[Scott Dolan]

I realize you only like to talk about Jazz, "Jean Luc", but I'd be interested in hearing your ideas as far as reform goes.

[Sergio Zamora]

I'm certainly no expert on these matters, but growing up in Califas on the bad side of town you pick up a few things.

Afaik, the riots are taking place in county jails, not the state or federal prisons. From what I've read, they started because an associate of one of the black prison gangs (crips, bgf) killed a senior member of La Eme on the *outside*.

I don't think these are race riots in the way a lot of people think of them. These are gang wars - only on the inside. That the prison gangs are generally demarcated by race is not entirely incidental of course, but not the focus of this particular situation.

The prison gangs, especially La Eme are extremely large,extremely powerful, and extremely well organized on the inside and outside. They are businesses. These organizations are not so much ideologically driven (though both BGF and Aryan Brotherhood were founded on ideologies) as profit driven. As a matter of fact, La Eme's biggest rival is not BGF or the Aryans - it's Nuestra Familia, a Northern Californian-based Latino prison gang.

The point is that while certainly racial tensions play a part, particularly the overcrowding, this is not primarly about that. These are not spontaneous, boiling-point releases or random acts of violence. These are premeditated, organized and coordinated acts of aggression from one gang to another.

But like I said, I'm no expert on this. I could be wrong.

[Enforcer]

Fixed.

Originally Posted by Sergio Zamora

The prison gangs, especially La Eme are extremely large,extremely powerful, and extremely well organized on the inside and outside. They are businesses. These organizations are not so much ideologically driven (though both BGF and Aryan Brotherhood were founded on ideologies) as profit driven. As a matter of fact, La Eme's biggest rival is not BGF or the Aryans - it's Nuestra Familia, a Northern Californian-based Latino prison gang.

The point is that while certainly racial tensions play a part, particularly the overcrowding, this is not primarly about that. These are not spontaneous, boiling-point releases or random acts of violence. These are premeditated, organized and coordinated acts of aggression from one gang to another.

But like I said, I'm no expert on this. I could be wrong.

OK, I founded one of the gangs. But that was a long time ago, months and months ago.

[Pedantic Wretch]

Originally Posted by Dr Dave

What are the stats, I don't remember. We now put a higher percentage of our population in the slam than any other country? That can't be right, but it might be close.

Here are some graphs from the November Coalition website which demonstrate the objective facts (irrational drug legislation, institutional racism, etc.) quite starkly:

[Brian Olewnick]

I'm not arguing with the stats PW presents--as far as I know, they're accurate--but I just wanted to point out how misleading, visually, the second graph is. In this case, the Prisoners per 100,000 went up 20.8%, from 600 to 725. But someone just glancing at the graph would think that the ratio had mor than doubled. Simply by virtue of presenting (intentionally, one must assume) the information in such a misleading manner, I'd normally have a tendency to doubt the validity of the underlying statistics.

[John P. Cooper]

Originally Posted by Dr Dave

Not the major focus, no. I feel bad that these guys lives are so fucked up that they behave this way. What are you so pissed off about?

It's not a metter of my being pissed off, which I am not.

These prison dudes are not just the average Joe's or Jose's off the street. You got some evil and bad dudes in there who would kill you soon as look at you. The sympathy they deserve is long out of date.

Now all they do is make each other miserable based upon their race and at the same time endanger the lives of the people who have to work there, while at the same time wasting a ton of money.

Someone have the stats on hjow many illegal aliens the California prison system is housing and paying for?

I had a fiormer friend - a legal alien wasting US/California taxpayers money - who did some time in county jail for his criminal behavior. He said he never wanted to go back. The danger level was too high. Blacks hung with Blacks, Hispanics with Hispanics, White with Whites.

None the less, he came back to the US and was breaking US laws before he was here 3 weeks.

How much sympathy can you have for people like that....and this guy wasn't even a violent dude.

BTW - By many accounts, Sheriff Lee Baca is a real a-hole.

[Noj]

Do I need to go into another rant on why I think all prisons should be strictly solitary confinement?

[bluenoter]

Originally Posted by Noj

Do I need to go into another rant on why I think all prisons should be strictly solitary confinement?

I don't know how serious you actually are, but it's

--too expensive (and couldn't be adopted in most existing prisons)

--too easily worked around; there are all kinds of "communication methods" among prisoners, and I think that there are always some situations that require contact with others, if only under guard

--too inhumane (and therefore illegal?) if applied to everyone who lands in prison, even though it would undoubtedly increase each prisoner's safety.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've read a fair amount about prison/outside gangs, and it all seemed to confirm what Sergio posted about them in #16.

[patricia]

One of the most irritating rants I remember hearing was one by G Gordon Liddy on the subject of prisons. He gave the impression that most of the unrest in the prison system was a result of the guards being drunk with power over the inmates.
Here we have guards, doing a very dangerous job, among some of the most violent people incarcerated in a prison system, overcrowded and understaffed. Then Liddy blames all the problems in that system [the Federal one] on the guards. He gave the impression that there was some sort of honour among lifers and that the guards didn't treat them with enough consideration and respect.
I didn't know what to think.

[Scott Dolan]

Originally Posted by Rita

--too expensive (and couldn't be adopted in most existing prisons)

Wrong.

--too easily worked around; there are all kinds of "communication methods" among prisoners, and I think that there are always some situations that require contact with others, if only under guard

Hahaha............you have no idea. Your average prisoner is one of the most creative motherfuckers you'd ever meet.

But so what? If they are in solitary confinement, communications will amount to nothing more. Just communications.

[Noj]

Originally Posted by bluenoter

I don't know how serious you actually are...

Not very serious at all. We had another prison thread where, for argument's sake, I made a bunch of posts exploring the possibilities of controlling prison populations. Scott Dolan and others made very good points arguing against me.

My main point was that prisons in their current state make career criminals out of first-time offenders instead of rehabilitating them. Prisons house criminal societies and allow them to organize themselves into the gangs which are at war today. What if we were to separate them into platoons (interracial of course) and only allow them to communicate with a small number of other prisoners?

Better yet, legalize all drugs which will drive their values way down and put an end to street gangs, and in the process eliminate a great number of prisoners.

[Scott Dolan]

Originally Posted by Noj

My main point was that prisons in their current state make career criminals out of first-time offenders instead of rehabilitating them.

Wrong.

The prisons have little to do with that. It's the system that they work within. The problem is enormous, the prisons are only housing.

[bluenoter]

Originally Posted by Scott Dolan

But so what? If they are in solitary confinement, communications will amount to nothing more. Just communications.

Instructions to take down certain prisoners or their loved ones can be passed to others who may have a window of opportunity, passed to people who are about to be released and can get the orders carried out on the outside, etc., etc. Can be, have been, and are all the time.

[Scott Dolan]

Good lord................

[bluenoter]

Originally Posted by Scott Dolan

Good lord................

If I can ever find it again (and if it's online), I'll link to a long, thorough article about the Aryan Nation's history of taking care of things on the inside and on the outside.

[Doc Martin]

Originally Posted by Noj

Better yet, legalize all drugs which will drive their values way down and put an end to street gangs...

Don't you think the gangs would branch out into other criminal activities, such as murder for hire, extortion, corruption, racketeering, weapons smuggling, and human trafficking and countless other enterprises?

Assuming of course, they haven't already.