Vandermark 5 - Airports For Light

[Armando]

This is an exciting record!

The new drummer, Tim Daisy, is great and stands out quite a bit. He and Kessler make a hell of a rhythm section. The horns are as tight as ever and the music is dynamic - you can just visualize the notes coming out of the horns and joyously swirling around with each other - even during the mellower tunes.

The bonus disc, which features a run of Sonny Rollins tunes, is definitely worth the extra bread.

Have you heard this one yet?

[randyhersom]

Emusic has the album but not the bonus disk. I've enjoyed it very much. Good variety, but my favorite tracks impose uptempo unison work over a tight groove.

[Gary Sisco]

V5 strikes again, with another winner sure to be on my list for the year. This band can stand with any on any stage in the world. Great stuff. I love it as much and maybe more than I loved "Acoustic Machine," which is saying a lot. The bonus CD is also excellent, all Rollins tunes done a la V5, no imitations. It also answers the question once and for all, Can these cats play bop? Yes, man. Sounding good. Two CDs for less than a twenty is a pretty damned good deal these days. Two really good CDs even moreso.

[Salvador Dali Lama]

awesome. I'll probably pick it up at the show tonight. I heard some of it on the radio the other night, sounds pretty damn nice... and v5 is generally my least favorite Vandermark group. I'm looking forward to it immensely....

[Armando]

Originally posted by Salvador Dali Lama
awesome. I'll probably pick it up at the show tonight. I heard some of it on the radio the other night, sounds pretty damn nice... and v5 is generally my least favorite Vandermark group. I'm looking forward to it immensely....

Were you at the show in Atlanta?

I went to see them there last night and they were phenomenal. All the tunes from the new album were so well done, as were the Sonny Rollins numbers.

[Salvador Dali Lama]

Yeah! I thought it was great. That opening Rollins tune, "The Bridge" was incredible. Not to mention the Don Cherry thing they did for an encore.

great show. I bought the cd (which is great) and talked to Vandermark a bit afterwards. he's a good guy.

I'm psyched about that live album though, the new new stuff they were doing for it smoked!!! especially that one song, "telephone".

were you in town just for this show? We get some pretty decent stuff here sometimes...

[Armando]

The Don Cherry encore of "There Is The Bomb" was awesome, as were the Rollins tunes.

Yep, I went to Atlanta just for that show. Well worth it. (I was the guy taking photos for a while.) I know all about the decent shows you guys get down there. I spend a lot of time driving to the Athens/Atlanta area to see gigs. Not too much of it comes to Asheville, NC.

[Jim Dye]

Dang. I should have made the trip. I'm only a few hours north of Hotlanta. Glad to hear it was a good show!

I've spun Airports once, and like it so far. Haven't had much of a chance to give it a good hard listen though.

[Jonathan Sutton]

To answer a question I would have asked if my copy had not arrived yesterday:

Vandermark plays his first baritone solo on a V5 record on the final track (he also plays bari in the closing ensemble section of one of the tracks). I think that's it, but I have only listened to the disc once.

[Gary Sisco]

He plays bari on "License Complete" on "Acoustic Machine."

[Jonathan Sutton]

Oops, I guess I forgot that.

[Salvador Dali Lama]

Armando, are you the guy with the black beard? I saw a couple of people taking pictures. Do you work for a magazine or something? Next time you're down here for a show we'll get together for a beer.... I dont know of any free jazz coming up for a while though. Evan Parker was possibly coming through in April but I think that fell through....

I like Airports for light a lot. So far the Rollins disc has gotten the most play though. I love the packaging!!! The cover art is great, and I love that font. The recording quality is quite possibly the best I've ever heard for a free jazz album too...

I'm psyched that they are putting out a live album...

and sutton, that avatar is hot.

[Salvador Dali Lama]

wait, I thought Alef = 1? whats the zero all about?

[Armando]

Yep, I was the guy with the black beard. (Although upon closer inspection, there are hints of grey creeping in.)

I freelance mostly. Working my way up the ladder to the regular photo gigs.

Beers are definitely in order the next time I'm down that way.

[Jonathan Sutton]

SDL, I am glad you like the avatar. It's actually a picture of infinity... well, a symbol for infinity, anyway. Aleph-zero is the first infinite number, the number of whole numbers or integers. (Yes, there is more than one infinite number -- infinitely many, in fact.)

And, returning to the theme of my earlier posts, I only hear a tenor solo from Vandermark on "License Complete."

[ADR]

The Vandermark 5 was in Carborro, N.C. (right next to UNC Chapel Hill campus) not to long ago. Unfortunately, I did not get the chance to go up for the gig. It was a Tuesday night show if I remember correctly and I couldn't afford to take time off from work and I'm getting to old to make a 5-6 hour round trip from Charlotte and be back at work the next morning.

I am looking forward to checking out his new album which I'm planning on ordering from Drimala (or directly from the Atavistic website) in the next few months.


ADR

[Nate Dorward]

Originally posted by Gary Sisco
V5 strikes again, with another winner sure to be on my list for the year. This band can stand with any on any stage in the world. Great stuff. I love it as much and maybe more than I loved "Acoustic Machine," which is saying a lot. The bonus CD is also excellent, all Rollins tunes done a la V5, no imitations. It also answers the question once and for all, Can these cats play bop? Yes, man. Sounding good. Two CDs for less than a twenty is a pretty damned good deal these days. Two really good CDs even moreso.

Hm. I just got the disc today--only the single disc not the Rollins. It's a nice disc (& I say that having not previously heard anything by Vandermark I thought especially remarkable--two mediocre live concerts in Toronto, & the subpar FME date on Okkadisk. Not a fair sampling, of course, but it didn't exactly make me want to plunk down further money in hopes of catching Vandermark in a better light). The tunes & arrangements are good, & the horns play well, especially Jeb Bishop. But "Can these cats play bop?"--well I haven't heard the Rollins companion disc, but judging from the passages in straightforward swing time on this disc, the answer would only be a qualified "yes". Does Tim Daisy, the new drummer, have much background in straightahead jazz playing, for instance? He doesn't know where to place accents & bombs--he goes THUD right on the first beat with maddening predictability, which is a recipe for killing any swing feeling. In some ways I don't mind the kind of weird clunky rhythmic feel of the disc's jazzier moments, but it wouldn't impress anyone weaned on good jazz rhythm-section work. The horns' riffing on the Budd Johnson tribute (a nice composition) is often more swinging in feel than the bass & drums, & when they come in on that track it tends to give it a bit more solidity.

[Troy D]

Originally posted by ADR
The Vandermark 5 was in Carborro, N.C. (right next to UNC Chapel Hill campus) not to long ago. Unfortunately, I did not get the chance to go up for the gig. It was a Tuesday night show if I remember correctly and I couldn't afford to take time off from work and I'm getting to old to make a 5-6 hour round trip from Charlotte and be back at work the next morning.


ADR

I was able to go, and it was a *great* show. I thought Daisy was particularly impressive--he was really bringing it, with a lot of punch. But the whole group was first-rate. I bought the new CD at the show--got to chat very briefly with K.V., who indeed is a really nice guy.

[Troy D]

Originally posted by Nate Dorward
Does Tim Daisy, the new drummer, have much background in straightahead jazz playing, for instance? He doesn't know where to place accents & bombs--he goes THUD right on the first beat with maddening predictability, which is a recipe for killing any swing feeling. In some ways I don't mind the kind of weird clunky rhythmic feel of the disc's jazzier moments, but it wouldn't impress anyone weaned on good jazz rhythm-section work. [/B]

Daisy's style did seem a bit unorthodox in this regard--something I definitely noticed the other night. I thought it worked, though, for the stuff they were playing at the gig. I haven't yet listened to the Rollins disc, so perhaps in that context he does sound more clunky.

[Tanager]

I wasn't able to make the V5 show in Carrboro, which was a damned shame (for me, those of y'all who did make the show didn't miss out by my not being there, I assure you).

I liked what I heard of V5 on the other releases I've heard (mostly Simpatico, which I dig heavily), so I'm looking forward to adding this one. I'm about to make a heavy-duty CD purchase to inaugurate the new equipment.

[Nate Dorward]

No, haven't heard the Rollins disc. Actually I'd be v. grateful if someone would be so kind as to mail me a CD-R burn of the Rollins disc (backchannel please)--I have to review Airports for Light & it'd be nice to be able to include some remarks on the Rollins disc too, but the review copy I received is just the single disc.

[Jason Bivins]

Glad to see so many comments about this album. I didn't make the show in Carrboro the other night either. While I initially enjoyed "Acoustic Machine" (and gave it a good review), it's not held up very well for me. When Ian D. and I checked out the V5 last year on their way through, we were both fantastically underwhelmed; the group sounded for all the world like a hard bop repertory band in all too many places. Yes they had the ubiquitous honka-honka moments but they really bummed me out. And I say this as a longtime fan of this band (shit, I even opened up for 'em a few times).

So I'm going to split the difference between Gary and Nate, and maybe I'll borrow a friend's copy.

Oh yeah, I love Tim Daisy's playing though I haven't yet heard him with the V5.

[Nate Dorward]

Originally posted by Jason Bivins
When Ian D. and I checked out the V5 last year on their way through, we were both fantastically underwhelmed; the group sounded for all the world like a hard bop repertory band in all too many places.

Yeah--when I caught the V5 in Toronto some years back (2000? just after Rempis joined, anyway) it was surprisingly tame. The post-concert dialogue between me & Ken Waxman at the time went something like:

Me: Hm. So what'd you think?

Ken: [Shrugs.] The Gerry Mulligan group.

Me: Yeah, on an off-day.

[Jordan]

Re: Tim Daisy's swing playing, I heard it as him playing a half-time backbeat/sub-drum n' bass type feel underneath some of those walking basslines, which worked because those are FAST tempos with not a lot of room for "e's" and "ah's".

He swings more conventionally at parts on the Rollins disc, I'm sure he could play some great straight-ahead. Personally I like him more than Tim Mulvenna (who I had no problems with).

[Jason Bivins]

Gerry Mulligan, huh? Funny thing is that right after I posted I put on Jackie McLean's "Hipnosis" and thought - ah! that's what they sounded like.

Daisy fans, by the way, should check out his work in Triage and Lake Effect (the former sorta Air-like, the latter very textural and Tim explores his Prevost-y stuff).

[Gary Sisco]

Nate -- No disrespect, man, but you're not talking on much exposure to Vandermark. I mean, people dig what they dig and don't what they don't, but this cat releases music by the pound and has about a zillion bands, none of which sound much like the other.

When V5 came through here, they were absolutely excellent in all regards.

I loved "Acoustic Machine" and gave it a lot of airplay on my show, but when I play it these days, I program out the micro interludes, which to me, in the end, just broke up the program. "License Complete," in a rational world, would have been a major club hit.

I can't hear anything not to like on the new one, myself. Hitting on the one isn't unusual for a drummer reared on the music of the past couple of decades, nor does it bother my ears.

What I'm waiting for is for the jazz world to really catch up with the Jamaican riddims hitting on three. Drake does it from time to time. Once extremely effectively with the DKV3. Can't remember the particular cut right now, but it destroyed when he pulled that off. I'd been waiting *forever* for someone to do it.

[Nate Dorward]

Originally posted by Gary Sisco
Nate -- No disrespect, man, but you're not talking on much exposure to Vandermark. I mean, people dig what they dig and don't what they don't, but this cat releases music by the pound and has about a zillion bands, none of which sound much like the other.

Gary: yes, I'd said before that this was only my fourth exposure to KDVM's work, & I'm certainly willing to believe that he's played better on other occasions. I live in hope....but I have to square this with my limited willingness to persist in catching his disks or concerts, at my own expense at least. Airports for Light turned up in the mailbox as a freebie review copy, & it's certainly far better than what I'd heard from KDVM in the past. Not, however, I think, as exceptional or flawless as some of the more enthusiastic posts here have put it.

I can't hear anything not to like on the new one, myself. Hitting on the one isn't unusual for a drummer reared on the music of the past couple of decades, nor does it bother my ears.

I suppose it depends what music of the last few decades we're talking about--jazz, you mean? The device has certainly been incorporated by drummers into the jazz vocabulary, but with a lot more subtlety than Daisy shows here--I mean, he's doing it virtually every two or four bars with metronomic regularity. As I said this isn't necessarily a problem if you get used to it, but my original post was in reply to your suggestion that the players showed a mastery of the bop idiom (admittedly with reference to the companion Rollins disc). I certainly hope that on that disc if they're indeed playing bop Daisy doesn't do this, as there it would drive me nuts.

What I'm waiting for is for the jazz world to really catch up with the Jamaican riddims hitting on three. Drake does it from time to time. Once extremely effectively with the DKV3. Can't remember the particular cut right now, but it destroyed when he pulled that off. I'd been waiting *forever* for someone to do it.

No argument from me that Drake is a superb drummer, & certainly way better than Daisy or for that matter Mulvenna.

[Captain Hate]

Count me in as a Vandershill; he's always put on a very good show when I've seen the V5. Plus I think his soloing has improved from year to year; some of his earlier solos I didn't find all that good but now I find his playing compelling. As Sisco sez: You like what you like. I haven't heard the new disk but I will; I find the concept of a Rollins disk very interesting.

[Gary Sisco]

Nate -- Well, now we'll have to get into the what is jazz thing. Are they using four on the floor swing rhythms? Sometimes, but not much, obviously. Several of the tunes (of the ones that aren't "free") are using rhythms that are entirely familiar to people who've been hearing them in other musics for years, but they are being used in jazz ways. I assume these are the rhythms that aren't making it for you, and yes, most of them, like nearly all popular rhythms of the past twenty years or so, come down heavy on the one. What is swinging, on closer listen, is the horns *against* these other rhythms from Daisy and Kessler. In short, multirhythms. Nothing new there in jazz, by the way. And also, as someone said above, rightly, there is also a tune where Daisy's playing in half-time a kind of modified drums-and-bass kind of rhythm while the horns are playing at a much faster clip. Also not a new device in jazz. People have been doing that (not in these exact ways, of course) since the dawn of bebop.

Osby's drummers have often used similar devices.

Daisy does have a heavy hand and foot, by many jazz standards, agreed. To my ears, he sounds like he's playing jazz but with the heavier touch of the rock/funk/dancemusic world, where I'd assume much of his background lies. Actually, his touch is a lot like Ginger Baker's, only much less busy about it, and not as heavy as Baker's is, and also funkier. Similar, though, in touch and feel.

Of course, I don't place him on the level of a Hamid Drake. I don't place many on that level today.

[Nate Dorward]

Originally posted by Gary Sisco
Nate -- Well, now we'll have to get into the what is jazz thing. Are they using four on the floor swing rhythms? Sometimes, but not much, obviously. Several of the tunes (of the ones that aren't "free") are using rhythms that are entirely familiar to people who've been hearing them in other musics for years, but they are being used in jazz ways. I assume these are the rhythms that aren't making it for you, and yes, most of them, like nearly all popular rhythms of the past twenty years or so, come down heavy on the one. What is swinging, on closer listen, is the horns *against* these other rhythms from Daisy and Kessler. In short, multirhythms. Nothing new there in jazz, by the way. And also, as someone said above, rightly, there is also a tune where Daisy's playing in half-time a kind of modified drums-and-bass kind of rhythm while the horns are playing at a much faster clip. Also not a new device in jazz. People have been doing that (not in these exact ways, of course) since the dawn of bebop.

Well, I wasn't talking about swing-era-style drumming, which is a different matter altogether & which is not even referenced on the album, but about current (bop/postbop) conventions of drumming. & I'm only talking about a handful of tracks on the album, which are clearly intended in whole or in part to be idiomatic jazz: in particular, the Budd Johnson tribute. My point was that the rhythm section was noticeably less secure & capable at these moments (esp. the Budd Johnson) than when they're doing something in a different idiom--for example, the quite nice, completely in-the-pocket tributes to Otis Redding & Curtis Mayfield, or the free-jazz moments. Basically, what I responding to was the assertion near the start of this thread that the group showed a mastery of bebop playing. It doesn't seem to me, judging from this album (as I said, I wasn't sent the Rollins disc), that that is really their strong suit, & in particular Daisy only half-grasps the idiom. It's not necessarily a problem on the album--on the Richter tribute for instance he achieves an effective pummelling momentum in the opening section--but it would become a problem for me if they did an entire album in that kind of quasi-bop vein ('cause it just sounds wrong!). So it's just as well that it's only a small component of Airports for Light.