Post 70's Fusion

Reid · March-26th-2003, 12:52 AM

The most interesting developments in jazz in the past 10 or 20 years are either a part of or connected to Fusion in some fashion. I think of M-Base (and the musicians associated with that movement), Ellery Eskelin's Trio, Bill Frisell, Tim Berne to name a few groups. I would argue what Matthew Shipp is doing in the Blue Series is also coming out of Fusion.

Here's a thread to talk about the developments in Fusion after the 70's. What are the groups that have developed Fusion in interesting ways? Who are some of your favorite musicians that taken or built upon the Fusion music.

BFrank · March-26th-2003, 02:35 AM

I picked up a Jean-Paul Bourelly disk a while back. It was pretty interesting and definitely had a lot of "Hendrix" in there, too.

Ron Thorne · March-26th-2003, 02:47 AM

BFrank-

What 35mm SLR is that depicted under your username? As an avid photographer, I'm intrigued, to say the least.

mke · March-26th-2003, 05:02 AM

I don't see how a term that can lump Ellery's trio and Shipp's blue series albums (of which I know Equilibrium and the Anti Pop album) together can be very useful.

Jimmy J · March-26th-2003, 05:30 AM

I liked some of the stuff that Miles did with Marcus Miller at the desk, which was getting very funkay at times. The band with Ricky Wellman on drums (from Chuck Brown and the Soul Searchers) and Benny Rietveld was kicking.

And of course, he had Bill Evans on sax who turned in a couple of nice sets with Dennis Chambers in there.

Uzeb turned in some good fusioney sets, and then there is the gamut of Hip-Hop that sampled Jazz... Does this count? I am thinking of Tribe Called Quest, Pharcyde, etc.

Tanager · March-26th-2003, 06:59 AM

I kind of agree that if you define Fusion so broadly that it can include all of the afore-mentioned artists, we might as well just discuss post-70s "jazz".

Jazzooo · March-26th-2003, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tanager
I kind of agree that if you define Fusion so broadly that it can include all of the afore-mentioned artists, we might as well just discuss post-70s "jazz".

I almost think it would be better if we did!

BFrank · March-26th-2003, 11:49 AM

Hey, Ron - It's a Leica. Probably a IIIa or something similar. So, technically speaking, it's not an SLR, but a rangefinder camera. (but I'm sure you already knew that)

Jay · March-26th-2003, 12:11 PM

There are quite a few improvised music/nu-fusion artists that are doing great things. A few names:

Jim Black, especially AlasNoAxis
Cuong Vu (his one record on OmniTone)
The Cline Brothers
Gregg Bendian, especially Interzone

Reid · March-26th-2003, 02:45 PM

mke,

Think of Fusion when it came out. Hancock's Headhunters, RTF, Miles' various groups, Pat Metheny Group could all fit under that label. Then again, maybe you thought the label was too broad to be useful at the time?

For me, the music I'm talking about has significant elements of rock/funk/pop/hip-hop incorporated in the music. There's a lot of jazz made after the 70's that doesn't have those elements.

Jay,

Good picks. I need to listen to more Nels Cline.

Jimmy J,

Did you know Benny is from Hawaii? Not that that's significant, but he's one of the few Hawaii jazz guys that made it.

BFrank

Was that Boom-Bop? I didn't really care for that one, but I've only heard clips of it.

mke · March-26th-2003, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jay
Jim Black, especially AlasNoAxis

I saw AlasNoAxis a few weeks ago. I liked it, but calling it Fusion would imply some sort of jazz element, which I don't think there was to any significant degree.

Quote:

Originally posted by ReidThink of Fusion when it came out. Hancock's Headhunters, RTF, Miles' various groups, Pat Metheny Group could all fit under that label. Then again, maybe you thought the label was too broad to be useful at the time?

The Headhunters were pretty close to Miles, RTF and the PMG I've never heard. However, I fail to see any musical connection, other than a category, between Ellery Eskelin and Steve Coleman's stuff.

Jazzooo · March-26th-2003, 04:59 PM

Reid,

I'm not sure this is important, but I just wanted to point out that there are probably many '70s era fusion that you refer to with a sense of nostalgia for the good old days of cross-pollenization that you wouldn't like at all, including some records by RTF, PMG and Mahavishnu.

Reid · March-26th-2003, 09:04 PM

Jazzooo,

Whether I like the older Fusion is not relevant to what I'm saying.

Mke,

RTF, something like Miles' Dark Magus, Headhunters and PMG are pretty different, man. What keeps them together under the Fusion umbrella is that they all synthesis jazz and popular music of the day (mainly rock, pop and funk).

I have two albums of the Ellery Eskelin trio, and I would say that it's tougher to argue that they're coming out of Fusion because they incoporate many styles. I'd have to listen to each track more carefully, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of their tunes didn't have rock/pop elements. However, it seems like rock is an essential part of their music,whether the influence is subtle or overt. I think of Jim Black as a post-Fusion drummer because so much of what I've heard from his playing seems to be informed by rock/funk/pop, etc. to some degree or another.

That's how I think of post-Fusion musicians. The synthesis of rock and jazz is a given for them, and their music is informed by that synthesis to a significant degree. By that thinking, I would include Steve Coleman and Ellery Eskelin.

BFrank · March-26th-2003, 10:24 PM

Reid - I think it WAS "Boom Bop". I liked it a lot at first, but upon repeated listenings I grew tired of it and ended up trading it in. Having said that, there were some interesting ideas there - I just didn't see myself playing it much.

Reid · March-26th-2003, 10:42 PM

BFrank,

Unfortunately, that's how I feel about a lot of the recent Fusion stuff. There can be great playing and a great groove, but nothing so great to make me want to come back to it. I think it has a lot to do with the quality of songs.

But to be fair, I think I could say the same thing for a lot of recent mainstream recordings as well.

Bill Barton · March-27th-2003, 12:33 AM

lower case "f"

it's all fu(i)sion

Jazzooo · March-27th-2003, 02:01 AM

"Whether I like the older Fusion is not relevant to what I'm saying."

You missed my point, Reid, which is that what you said about 'recent fusion' a couple of posts ago, you'd probably say about a lot of older fusion (not that you don't have some favorites). I'm not sure why you're pressing for more of it now.

Reid · March-27th-2003, 03:30 AM

You mean, there's a lot of older Fusion that I wouldn't like? So why am I expecting to like the Fusion now? I'm confused.

Jazzooo · March-27th-2003, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Reid
You mean, there's a lot of older Fusion that I wouldn't like? So why am I expecting to like the Fusion now? I'm confused.

More that the way you talk about newer fusion, is probably how you'd feel if you heard a lot of older fusion too (then AND now). Now I'm not saying that you haven't latched onto a few of fusion's '70s-era greatest hits and dug them, but...that's a handful of CDs. The genre is still the genre. You get bored with today's and you'd probably have gotten bored with the majority of yesterday's for the same reasons. just guessing, though.

Reid · March-27th-2003, 05:14 PM

OK, Jazzooo, I think I know what you mean now, and you could be right.

Jason G · March-27th-2003, 07:58 PM

Fusion was my gateway to jazz sometime back in the mid to late 90's, and although I still listen to a few dozen recordings regularly, much of it collects dust.

Those that have given me the most amount of pleasure are:

Steps - Smokin' in The Pit

14 days away from being considered post 70's. Is this Brecker's finest hour? Absolutely!

John McLaughlin - The Heart Of Things

John Scofield - Pick Hits Live

Steps Ahead - Live in Tokyo 1986

Jazz is Dead - Blue Light Rain

Mathieson/Laboriel/Landau/Colaiuta - Live at The Baked Potato 2000

Jim Sangrey · March-27th-2003, 08:33 PM

Kinda lost interest in following "fusion" (as in jazz-rock squiggle-diggle) quite a far bit back in the previous century, but tell you what - somebody hipped me to SCREAMING HEADLESS TORSOS, and I nearly creamed my jeans. Now, THAT'S the spirit of fusion that got me hot and bothered back around 1972!

Besides, how can you NOT like a band that does "Blue In Green" as Goth-Rock?

Reid · March-28th-2003, 01:57 PM

Jim,

You might also like an album called Lunar Crush (Fuze and John Medeski along with the bassist and drummer from SHT, I think).

-----------

Btw, are there any fans of the group, The Necks? I've listened to one of the albums (Sex< I think it was called), and I couldn't listen for long as it seemed kinda monotonous. Anyway, I've read some favorable reviews of them, and I was wondering what the fuss was all about.

Jazzooo · March-28th-2003, 02:32 PM

Hey, a mention of Smokin' in the Pit! Nice call, Jason--Tee Bag and Young and Fine are two of the tracks I use to turn neophtyes onto the magic of spontaneous communication in jazz. Brecker, Gadd and Grolnick--wow.

mke · March-28th-2003, 04:45 PM

Reid,

I agree with you re: Jim Black. His group AlasNoAxis is very rock-oriented.

I went to see Erik Truffaz present his new album. It's very rock too.

Jim,

I don't know about SHT... I feel like it's something I should like a lot in theory, in practice I like it a lot less.

Reid · March-28th-2003, 04:58 PM

mke,

How did Truffaz sound? I liked the first cut off the Mantis album, but I didn't care for the rest of it. Truffaz is one of those trumpeters (along with Petter-Molvaer, Hagans) that is doing the Fusion thing, but sounding too much like Miles for my tastes.

With SHT, the song quality explains why I'm not into them as much. I don't care for vocals as much, too.

How do you like Matthew Shipp's Blue series on Thirsty Ear? I'm looking to pick up Amassed, and I'm interested in the collaboration with Anti-Pop Consortium.

mke · March-28th-2003, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Reid
mke,

How did Truffaz sound? I liked the first cut off the Mantis album, but I didn't care for the rest of it. Truffaz is one of those trumpeters (along with Petter-Molvaer, Hagans) that is doing the Fusion thing, but sounding too much like Miles for my tastes.

With SHT, the song quality explains why I'm not into them as much. I don't care for vocals as much, too.

How do you like Matthew Shipp's Blue series on Thirsty Ear? I'm looking to pick up Amassed, and I'm interested in the collaboration with Anti-Pop Consortium.

Truffaz himself hasn't changed much. The sound, the stage demeanour even, are still very Miles-ish. The written, melodic parts were generally very simple, sometimes TOO simple, for my tastes. Truffaz sometimes sounds a LOT like Molvaer.

However, the drummer and electric bassist were fantastic. The bassist sometimes had almost punk-level distortion. The first song they played had an awesome disco-funk bass line. He really impressed me. If they sound like that on the record, than it's probably worth getting just for them. It was a different pianist for the concert than on the CD.

I had written a review of the Anti Pop album on the old board. In short, I feel that there are hints of a new things arising from the jazz-hip hop fusion on this album. Programmed and live drums are very well balanced and blended. The rapping is varied and interesting, from very abstract and non-rhythmic to more traditional rapping, to slam-influenced.

Jazzooo · March-28th-2003, 07:16 PM

The current JAZZIZ is all about Fusion (or as they call it, the "f" word). The accompanying CD has a few surprises: Christian mcBraide's band turns in a pretty wild and wooly track that recalls Mahavishnu AND Weather Report. There's a track from the WR Live and Unreleased album, a few mediocre tunes, and then...

...there is this wild trio recording of an acoustic guitar, electric bass and drums. All the time i was listening (almost 10 minutes), I was getting more and more impressed. I couldn't recognize any of the players, but i voed to look at the jacket when the song was over and just enjoy it for what it was. And it was...

GHS. That's Frank Gambale (a guitarist I've never given a second listen to after hearing him slickly spew note after note with Chick Corea decades ago), Stuart Hamm--a bassist I've always written off as a rocker trying to play jazz, and drummer Steve Smith--definitely a good player but I've never really liked his feel.

on this track, each player made terrific, creative contributions. Passionate and hip playing. I need to go back and listen again and make sure I liked it as much as I thought I did!

Reid · March-28th-2003, 08:21 PM

mke,

I liked how the drummer created "live" drum n' bass grooves on the Mantis album. But the highlight for me was the solo by the guitarist on the first track.

Jazzooo,

I think the label Tonecenter has some other cds of that trio as well as other fusion trios with Steve Smith at the drum chair. I liked the playing of the stuff I heard, but I never went back to listen in depth.

Speaking of guitar trios, have you heard the Scorch Trio with Raoul Bjorkheim? What about Nels Cline's trio? Both groups are certainly not your typical Fusion group.

Jason G · March-28th-2003, 11:29 PM

For fusion trio, I've always leaned heavily towards Michel Camilo's output -- A virtuoso who puts the music first instead of using compositions solely for showcasing individual chops. Unfortunately, self-indulgence runs rampant in some of the guitar/bass/drums recordings I've heard, which detracts from what could otherwise be killer grooves.

Doug -- Smokin' in The Pit WAS the album that shined the acoustic light on my soul. Sometime Back in the JCS days, there were a number of people speaking highly of this recording. I was listening to contemporary jazz, fusion and some rock at the time, yet had a strong desire to begin exploring the acoustic world. I found a copy at Tower, London -- you know, the outrageously expensive Sony Mastersound without the recently added tracks -- and instantly became a believer.