the ongoing DUBBya saga ..

graypencil · March-21st-2003, 01:30 AM

He's STILL a pinheaded petulant non achieving lackey of bid'ness!!

nest ??

Clay Fink · March-21st-2003, 10:17 AM

Interesting that a guy that has no conception of the major movements in 20th century art has brought about a surreal "happening".

I really don't think he's as stupid as people think he is. He may be ignorant and believe in a bunch of bible mythology, but he has political smarts and, at least on on one, real political gifts.

Face it. This guy has managed to cow any sort of internal opposition in this country, intimidate the press and scare the shit out of the rest of the world. All that WITHOUT actually being elected. Shure, he would not be where he is without his daddy being a former Pres or without Karl Rove. Still, none of that would be possible if he was a true moron.

He's pretty much proven to the world by this point that he must be taken seriously. We dismiss his intelligence, resolve and ruthlessness at our own peril.

Tom Storer · March-21st-2003, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Clay Fink
I really don't think he's as stupid as people think he is. He may be ignorant and believe in a bunch of bible mythology, but he has political smarts and, at least on on one, real political gifts.

Face it. This guy has managed to cow any sort of internal opposition in this country, intimidate the press and scare the shit out of the rest of the world. All that WITHOUT actually being elected. Shure, he would not be where he is without his daddy being a former Pres or without Karl Rove. Still, none of that would be possible if he was a true moron.

He's pretty much proven to the world by this point that he must be taken seriously. We dismiss his intelligence, resolve and ruthlessness at our own peril.

I disagree. He's smart like Mike Tyson is smart, maybe, that is to say he's single-minded and wields terrifying power. But his power is American military and economic power, not personal muscles. (OK, maybe Tyson is a brilliant athlete, I have no idea, but that's not what I'm talking about.) Resolve, most definitely; ruthlessness, without a doubt; intelligence, nothing extraordinary.

I think the political successes he has had are not due so much to any shrewdness on his part so much as to a lack of any strong or principled opposition in Congress, as well as to the fact that the American population is largely de-politicized and easily manipulated. The Democrats have just rolled over and presented their soft underbellies, while 40% of the people (according to one poll) were mesmerized by Bush's constant repetitions on TV into thinking Saddam Hussein personally masterminded the 9/11 attacks. For the Republicans, these last two years have been like taking candy from a baby.

But I suspect it won't last. He has been (not very smartly IMHO) laying the groundwork for potential political disasters. There's every chance people will end up resenting the chipping away of civil liberties, tax cuts for the rich, huge deficits, the resulting further breakdown in education and public services, and what might turn into a costly, confusing mess in the Middle East when the war is over, and so much for his political smarts.

Clay Fink · March-21st-2003, 04:48 PM

Tom, I think you misunderstood what I said. He clearly could never of gotten where he is on his own, but the guy is discplined enough to work with someone like Karl Rove, do what he's told and manage to come out on top politically. Bush actually has a lot of political experiance. He acted as his dad's henchman for years while the old man was vp and pres. He was also very close to Lee Atwater (they probably snorted coke together and screwed the same call girls). They guy is a cunning, political animal. I'm not sure if his born-again act is real or not. If it is real then what we have is a religious zelot in the whitehouse who is fully capable of rolling over just about any political opponent.

I really don't see many red voters dropping off and voting blue next time. Whoever runs against him will be painted as a limp-wristed commie and all the angry white men, employed and unemployed alike, will flock to Bushies feet. I really don't think economic problems and a fiscal train wreck will bring this guy down.

I think the idea of the Repubs mounting a coup to stay in power is just paranoid fantasy. They won't need to.

That's my argument and I hope I am totally wrong.

Tom Storer · March-21st-2003, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Clay Fink
Tom, I think you misunderstood what I said. He clearly could never of gotten where he is on his own, but the guy is discplined enough to work with someone like Karl Rove, do what he's told and manage to come out on top politically.

Well... I guess I just don't think that is the same thing as being very smart.

Clay Fink · March-21st-2003, 05:59 PM

OK. So he IS a moron. He certainly looks and talks the part.

patricia · March-21st-2003, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Clay Fink
OK. So he IS a moron. He certainly looks and talks the part.

I don't credit Mr Bush with any independant thought ability. I think that he takes direction fairly well and has not, so far, ad-libbed anything. If he was actually involved in an impromptu press conference, at which journalists, while respecting each other and asking one question at a time, actually asked questions, with follow-up, we might see the real man.
He seems coached, to a fare-thee-well by those who write his speeches, IMO, and he seems to have a fistful of platitudes and slogans which he pulls out, with some canned patriotism, suitable for any tight spot. His narrative is a re-working of what we've heard before. His eyes and body language don't match what he's saying and he seems to be grasping for credability.
The fact that he always throws in an "Americans are the bravest and best people in the world" and a couple of "God bless Americas" assure his place on the plus side of those who prefer not to think for themselves' list.
It's really scary that a person of so little compassion and basic intelligence has his hands on such destructive power.
I can't help thinking that if we look really closely, we can see the strings. I think though, that he really believes that he is anointed to lead by some higher power and that is what I find most unsettling.

catesta · March-21st-2003, 07:37 PM

What an insightful discussion.

Ron Thorne · March-22nd-2003, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by catesta
What an insightful discussion.

I don't see anything particularly insightful about the previous posts. They're simply observations and opinions. Sorry.

See, most of the folks who post on a thread such as this are not huge fans of "Little Bush" as some Iraqis are referring to him. In America, we've come to know him as "shrub". Same thing, huh?

It's my feeling that most Americans have all of the insight they require with respect to Dubbya at this point in time.

Gee, I wonder if he had Laura pop some popcorn today so he could watch the "Shock and Awe" show while enjoying a snack?

Ron Thorne · March-22nd-2003, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Clay Fink
He clearly could never of gotten where he is on his own, but the guy is discplined enough to work with someone like Karl Rove, do what he's told and manage to come out on top politically.

I'm with Tom Storer on this one. Dubbya is not my idea of "smart", either. Shrewd, calculating, clever, cunning, politically aware ... yes. Smart, by my definition ... no! If shrub were truly "smart" in the classical sense, I think he could and would have gotten where he is on his own. Discipline and intelligence often go together, but they can also be mutually exclusive.

I don't have the energy or interest right now to even address the legitimacy of shrub's born-again claims, frankly.

catesta · March-22nd-2003, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ron Thorne
I don't see anything particularly insightful about the previous posts.

That was kind of my point.

Tom Storer · March-22nd-2003, 01:04 PM

Pleased to meet you, catesta! I don't suppose you'd have any insights of your own to offer?

catesta · March-22nd-2003, 01:23 PM

Thank you for the welcome Tom.

I'm sure I will be around here plenty for political discussions, however, the "Bush is a moron" topic is a bit tired and old.

Just like you all, I could not say anything that has not already been said, pro or con.

Uli · March-22nd-2003, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by catesta

I'm sure I will be around here plenty for political discussions, however, the "Bush is a moron" topic is a bit tired and old.

Beg to disagree with you, catesta, imho it's timeless

frankpop1 · March-22nd-2003, 07:12 PM

Bush has proven to me that he is an intelligent. Although I was once skeptical, bush has acted sagaciously since 9/11. Yes, he has been shrewd, savvy and calculated. These are traits of smart leaders. To date, his reaction has not been one of overreaction, but he not at the risk of under reaction. He established a strong position at the outset of the Iraq affair by asking whether the UN was relevant. The UN has acted and procrastinated with other nation's irrelevant economic interests that concern Iraq. Instead bush chose to finally enforce the UN agreement against a nefarious regime, who shot, what? 2 scuds shot in the 1st war that killed 3 Israeli's? What capabilities does Iraq have now? Wise leaders launch upon such opportunities. The anti-American Middle East radicals by now realize that the cunning bush will take advantage of weaknesses and direct decisive action upon uncivilized behavior, when the opportunities arise.

kc bob · March-23rd-2003, 08:45 AM

This explains everything...

kc bob · March-23rd-2003, 08:47 AM

The middle entry says, 'I can't find a chimp making a face as dumb as this.'

Clay Fink · March-23rd-2003, 08:57 AM

A total insult to the noble chimp, our nearest evolutionary neighbor.

RBS · March-24th-2003, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tom Storer

But I suspect it won't last. He has been (not very smartly IMHO) laying the groundwork for potential political disasters. There's every chance people will end up resenting the chipping away of civil liberties, tax cuts for the rich, huge deficits, the resulting further breakdown in education and public services, and what might turn into a costly, confusing mess in the Middle East when the war is over, and so much for his political smarts.

I suspect so, too. When the smoke clears, after he's invaded Iraq and Iran and North Korea (if you look at some of his associates' quotes lately, you can see they're hinting at it....) and people see the almost irreversible damage he's done here, I think he's very, very, very, very, extremely, very vulnerable in 2004.