Religious Left on the rise?

[Uli]

According to an article in der Spiegel, their slogan is" Give us our Jesus back!'

I've never heard about them. Are they for real?

[Brian Olewnick]

Dunno about them, but there's always been a religious left around, if less prominent and influential than the religious right. Only somewhat less repugnant though.

[Gentle Giant]

I'm religious and I'm left, but my politics ain't my religion and vice versa.

[patricia]

Politics and religion are two different things, IMO. Politics is a public concern. Religion, or faith is a personal matter.
Sadly, the line has been blurred in the last few years, not to anyone's benefit who thinks rationally.

[lynn]

Hey, Republicans want their party back. Maybe it's a trend.

[walto]

[patricia]

I have great admiration for the Fathers Berrigan. But, their actions were not as priests, IMO, so much as they were citizens with consciences. Their being priests didn't hurt their credibility, but they were acting as individuals, guided by their belief in non-violence, from what I remember.

[Gentle Giant]

Originally Posted by walto

And starring in the movie version:


Ken Howard


Robert Blake

[Pedantic Wretch]

This depends on how you define 'left'; for instance, Marxism is a firmly secular and atheistic tradition, whereas various Labour movements had religious dissenting connections. Personally I don't think that Christians in the Western capitalist states have anything particularly useful to contribute to left discussion in the twenty-first century. As far as I'm concerned, God belongs in the nineteenth century at the latest, although the ever-expanding American Evangelical movement would of course disagree.

[Sergio Zamora]

Originally Posted by Uli

According to an article in der Spiegel, their slogan is" Give us our Jesus back!'

I've never heard about them. Are they for real?

Does the article have any more details about the group. I'm a little curious what the article refers to as as 'Left'. Are we talking liberation theologists, 1960's south american priests joining radical organizations and guerrilla groups, vaguely leftish flower children jesus freaks, or just mild mannered middle of the road center-right folks (aka liberals) who go to church?

[Uli]

Originally Posted by Sergio Zamora

Does the article have any more details about the group. I'm a little curious what the article refers to as as 'Left'. Are we talking liberation theologists, 1960's south american priests joining radical organizations and guerrilla groups, vaguely leftish flower children jesus freaks, or just mild mannered middle of the road center-right folks (aka liberals) who go to church?

It's not a very homogenous group. they are organizing apparently into lobby groups and coalitions Jim Winkler for instance heads a christian impeach Bush movement. Other names are e.g. Reverend Jim Wallis und Rabbi Michael Lerner, the former supposedly Hillary's spiritual help. Haven't read about any Christian punks but who knows, maybe it's a start.

[tristano's ghost]

Originally Posted by Sergio Zamora

Does the article have any more details about the group. I'm a little curious what the article refers to as as 'Left'. Are we talking liberation theologists, 1960's south american priests joining radical organizations and guerrilla groups, vaguely leftish flower children jesus freaks, or just mild mannered middle of the road center-right folks (aka liberals) who go to church?

Probably all of the above and then some--but primarily quieter, more academic folks who go to church but don't carry on night and day about it and march around proudly proclaiming themselves as "people of faith." I always liked what Kerry said during the campaign: "I don't wear my faith on my sleeve." Maybe that's just a New England attitude, but it speaks of a belief in faith as a very private and personal matter, and one that shouldn't be so readily abused to advance a political agenda. Unfortunately, the radical religious right has exerted such undue influence on our politics that it's become necessary to organize and start responding in kind.. if you have a chance to read Michelle Goldberg's book KINGDOM COMING: THE RISE OF CHRISTIAN NATIONALISM, you'll get an even clearer--and scarier--sense of where these militants want to take us. Goldberg's a Salon writer who's spent years covering the radical religious right in this country, and she's very good at reporting on a frightening movement in clear, concise, and unemotional language. I challenge anybody who thinks that we're not moving rapidly towards theocracy to check that book out... these folks are not going to quit or go away, even if, say, the Democrats win one or both wings of Congress this fall, or win the White House in '08.... they have institutions, organizations, and funding in place to keep fighting for the long-term. Worse, they believe that just about all tactics are justified because they are working in the service of the Lord.

I put them about 1-2 notches above lunatics who fly airplanes into buildings.

Disclaimer: Yes, I am a member of the "religious left." Beyond that, I don't care to discuss my faith in public, to pretend or think that it makes me better than you or anybody else, to tell you how to raise your children, how you should behave in your bedroom, or anything else. Stay out of my life and I'll stay out of yours.

[Doc Martin]

The Buddhist approach to political power is the moralization and the responsible use of public power. The Buddha preached non-violence and peace as a universal message. He did not approve of violence or the destruction of life, and declared that there is no such thing as a 'just' war. He taught: The victor breeds hatred, the defeated lives in misery. He who renounces both victory and defeat is happy and peaceful.

In the Cakkavatti Sihananda Sutta, the Buddha said that immorality and crime, such as theft, falsehood, violence, hatred, cruelty, could arise from poverty. Kings and governments may try to suppress crime through punishment, but it is futile to eradicate crimes through force.

In the Kutadanta Sutta, the Buddha suggested economic development instead of force to reduce crime. The government should use the country's resources to improve the economic conditions of the country. It could embark on agricultural and rural development, provide financial support to entrepreneurs and business, provide adequate wages for workers to maintain a decent life with human dignity.

[patricia]

But, Doc, I think that as long as those who espouse non-violent means to mediate political differences are presented as sissies and pantywaists, war will continue to be the means most often chosen. Vanquishing the enemy seems to satisfy some primal need that exists in many. Unfortunately, those minds are leading us in positions of power. They need to defeat an enemy, not mediate a solution acceptable to both sides in a dispute. While that mindset exists, there is no hope for peace, ever.
When I hear such phrases as "We will accept nothing short of complete victory" coming from leaders of countries I want to weep. When will we learn? Our children and succeeding generations will have learned nothing from us. We were the generation who talked of peace...............weren't we?

[Pedantic Wretch]

Originally Posted by Uli

Other names are e.g. Reverend Jim Wallis und Rabbi Michael Lerner, the former supposedly Hillary's spiritual help.

Why would anything linked to Hillary Clinton be deemed 'left wing'? On an international spectrum, the US Democrats are a party of the right.

[Uli]

Originally Posted by Pedantic Wretch

Why would anything linked to Hillary Clinton be deemed 'left wing'? On an international spectrum, the US Democrats are a party of the right.

I guess you could be politically to the far left and still be Hillary's spiritual advisor.

The US Democrats are as left as the Labour Party or the Sozialdemokraten,imho.

[Doc Martin]

Originally Posted by patricia

But, Doc, I think that as long as those who espouse non-violent means to mediate political differences are presented as sissies and pantywaists, war will continue to be the means most often chosen. Vanquishing the enemy seems to satisfy some primal need that exists in many. Unfortunately, those minds are leading us in positions of power. They need to defeat an enemy, not mediate a solution acceptable to both sides in a dispute. While that mindset exists, there is no hope for peace, ever.
When I hear such phrases as "We will accept nothing short of complete victory" coming from leaders of countries I want to weep. When will we learn?

As an Engaged Buddhist I practice peaceful coexistence and non-violent resolution of problems.

“Aware of the suffering caused by the destruction of life, I am committed to cultivate compassion and learn ways to protect the lives of people, animals, plants, and minerals. I am determined not to kill, not to let others kill, and not to condone any act of killing in the world, in my thinking, and in my way of life.” - Thich Nhat Hanh

Our children and succeeding generations will have learned nothing from us. We were the generation who talked of peace...............weren't we?

Yes we were. However, to some of us, it was and is more than words.

[Sergio Zamora]

Originally Posted by Pedantic Wretch

Why would anything linked to Hillary Clinton be deemed 'left wing'? On an international spectrum, the US Democrats are a party of the right.

I assume that's Rabbi Michael Lerner of Tikkun magazine, which is more or less center-left, whatever his relationship with Hillary may be (who most certainly is not on the left).

edit: I just noticed Uli was referring to rev. Jim Wallis, not Lerner, as Hillary's 'spiritual advisor'. No idea who that dude is.

[Pedantic Wretch]

Originally Posted by Uli

The US Democrats are as left as the Labour Party or the Sozialdemokraten,imho.

That's merely a symptom of the rightward drift of all parliamentary democracies in the last 25 years. Europe has taken many of its cues from America.

[Gentle Giant]

Originally Posted by Sergio Zamora

I assume that's Rabbi Michael Lerner of Tikkun magazine, which is more or less center-left, whatever his relationship with Hillary may be (who most certainly is not on the left).

As a liberal Jew, I have a pretty strong distaste for Lerner, and his book with Cornel West, Jews and Blacks, is a pretty self-obsessed piece of mutual mental masturbation. Shame, because it's a subject that interests me. However, the dialogue that needs to happen between the two groups has to occur far below the ivory tower altitudes and attitudes of Lerner and West.

[Uli]

Originally Posted by Pedantic Wretch

That's merely a symptom of the rightward drift of all parliamentary democracies in the last 25 years. Europe has taken many of its cues from America.

I am not in disagreement. However it is you that sed that on an international spectrum, the US Dems are a on the right. Are you retracting this statement?

[Pedantic Wretch]

Originally Posted by Uli

I am not in disagreement. However it is you that sed that on an international spectrum, the US Dems are a on the right. Are you retracting this statement?

Well, international would include the likes of Hugo Chávez and Evo Morales in South America; also, at least Europe still has some active left-wing parties, even if they are at the fringes (e.g. Die Linkspartei in Germany, the Partito della Rifondazione Comunista in Italy, etc.).

[Uli]

Originally Posted by Pedantic Wretch

Well, international would include the likes of Hugo Chávez and Evo Morales in South America; also, at least Europe still has some active left-wing parties, even if they are at the fringes (e.g. Die Linkspartei in Germany, the Partito della Rifondazione Comunista in Italy, etc.).

You mite be right. All we have is Nader.

[Monte Smith]

Kerry tried to appeal to the religious left in 2004. You'll recall, perhaps, that in the many interviews where he was asked to explicate his spiritual underpinnings (an embarrassing ritual for secular American politicians like Kerry, I should think, or like George H.W. Bush), Kerry would refer to faiths such as Confucianism and pantheism.

Hahaha!

That shows a mind powerfully attuned to the existential ambiguities of the metaphysical infinite, but a suck-ass jerk understanding of certain concrete American political realities. Political realities which, unlike the broad and all-encompassing metaphysical dimension understood in its academic totality, it pains a candidate to ignore.

Pantheists! What a constituency to pander at! I tell you, this history of the republic would be very different if John Kerry appealed to Confucianists and there was a fortune cookie factory in southern Ohio.

The "religious left" means three things: Northeastern Protestants, Jews, and Blacks. Throw in gays who want to be bishops. The Democrats already have 99% of that vote and that margin cannot be increased.

[Gordon B]

What's the Taliban, religious left or religious right?

[GoodSpeak]

Originally Posted by Uli

According to an article in der Spiegel, their slogan is" Give us our Jesus back!'

Are they for real?

We can only hope.

[Monte Smith]

Originally Posted by Gordon B

What's the Taliban, religious left or religious right?

Very pertinent question. They can be seen as an anti-imperialist, indigienous force...from Pakistan, spreading the imperial Saudi faith of Wahabism...against the American hyperpower and its puppet Zionist entity. That makes it...left? But it executes women in soccer stadiums and commands the length of men's beards which seems like such a trick of the ancien regime, and so...right. They want to take good care of each and every Muslim, a benign social model, and that makes them--in their intent--kinda leftish. They also want to "take care" of each and every Christian and Jew--by no means a benign intent. And that makes them fucking Nazis.

This is why the left and right in the West has to band together in one thing--opposing jihad.

[GoodSpeak]

Originally Posted by Gordon B

What's the Taliban, religious left or religious right?

Forcing women to wear berkas and subjecting them to political and social persecution?

No free speech and curtailment of anything we civilized people consider God given rights...Liberal?


You just cannot be serious, Gordon.




That would be the goal of your party and their MO.

[Gordon B]

Tim, I take it you agree with Monte's post.

[willy]

Rise this!