Al-Qaeda's Zarqawi killed in Iraq

[Mingus]

Whack-a-mole

[jesus marion joseph]

Good riddance.

[Gordon B]

Strategy Page published this, yesterday. If he was killed by his own team, I guess the $25M bounty doesn't get paid.

Zarqawi Scheduled for Martyrdom

June 7, 2006: The relationship between terrorist leader Abu Musab al Zarqawi and and the mainline al Qaeda leadership continues to deteriorate. Zarqawi's recent audio messages have not only attacked the U.S. and the Shia-dominated government in Iraq, but also Iran. He's even claiming that the U.S., Iran, and Shia in general, are in cahoots to destroy Islam. He has also called for continued attacks against Shia.



Except for his verbal attacks on the U.S. and the Iraqi government, he is almost totally distanced himself from the central leadership. Other al Qaeda leaders have been trying to down play anti-Iranian and anti-Shia rhetoric, and have been strongly discouraging attacks on civilians.



Given that Zarqawi has become a loose cannon and that his actions are handicapping Al Qaeda's efforts, it seems reasonable to expect that an accident may befall him at some point in the near future. If handled right it can be made to look like he went out in a blaze of glory fighting American troops or that he was foully murdered. Either way, al Qaeda gets rid of a problem and gains another "martyr."
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htm.../20060607.aspx

[Gary Sisco]

No great loss to the world, clearly. His death won't change a thing so far as the insurgency goes, however, as he was a self-appointed loud mouth, more than anything else. An insurgency of the size and longevity of the one in Iraq, against a superpower's (and others') military and nearly infinite by comparison resources, never mind thousands of paid mercenaries, er, "security firms," is deeply rooted in the population itself or it would long ago have been crushed to greasy dust. There's no other way it could have survived apart from being a part of and generated out of the population itself. Which is why it will continue for as long as the US wants to hang around and for sometime thereafter as well, until the Iraqis settle their hash and decide on their society's next move. No one else can do that for them. No one else will.

Al Q itself is much more of a mood than an organization and always has been. The question is whether the powers that be want to continue aggravating that mood that clearly exists within Islamist circles, which are huge and worldwide.

[Mingus]

Originally Posted by Gordon B

Strategy Page published this, yesterday.
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htm.../20060607.aspx

Thanks for the link, Gordon.

[Mingus]

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

Al Q itself is much more of a mood than an organization and always has been. The question is whether the powers that be want to continue aggravating that mood that clearly exists within Islamist circles...

sounds like dubya and rummie's erradication strategy doesn't have a chance. do you think if we just stop picking at it, this festering mess might clear up on it's own?
kind of a rhetorical question there, I guess. Iraq (like any other state) will have to decide their own path, democracy or not. The Islamic (non-state) rage on the other hand, goes beyond borders. Strong state leadership is needed to keep them in check.
Hey, what-about-Saddam?

[Monte Smith]

"America, you lose!" jihadist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi told a table of his confederates including his spiritual guru Sheik Abd-al-Rahman on Wednesday as the drone of American warplanes first was heard in the distance.

The attacks against civilians might decrease since not all of al Qaeda agreed with his loose canon tactics.

Whoa, $25,000,000! Wonder who's gonna cash in on that.

[Gary Sisco]

Mingus -- The Islamist militancy's mood is a different cultural expression of a global wave of reaction against modernity, that expresses itself in the form of religious (not Moslem, religious) fundamentalism and a resurgent tribalism in the form of an ever more fragmented nationalism, the most reactionary of which is based primarily on ethnicity. Often the two combine, both in the Islamic world and elsewhere, too. Hindu reaction in India, for example. Or Aryan Nations/Christian Identity and less militant expressions of basically the same thing in the more drooling sections of the American republicritic party.

It's a historical wave of reaction and so not something that any one or group of governments can do much if anything about -- *except,* if managed by the halfway sane and brained, to do one's best to both avoid provoking its most militant sections while at the same time trying to establish friendships or at least minimal trust outside those sections (ie, minimal to the point of not requiring bloodshed to communicate, armed struggle being a form of expression, after all).

That some of the same wave (conscious or not, doesn't matter) exists in power circles in the US is both an expression of the same historical development and an aggravation of it.

[groover]

Berg's father isn't pleased, but I think Zarqawi was beyond rehabilitation, and had well earned this fate.

Berg: No good in al-Zarqawi's death

RANDALL CHASE

Associated Press

DOVER, Del. - The father of Nicholas Berg, a U.S. contractor believed to have been beheaded by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi in Iraq, said Thursday that he doesn't see any good coming from al-Zarqawi's death.

"I see more death coming out of al-Zarqawi's death," Michael Berg told The Associated Press after learning a U.S. air strike had killed the leader of al-Qaida in Iraq.

Al-Zarqawi is believed to have beheaded two American civilians in 2004: Nicholas Berg, a 26-year-old businessman from West Chester, Pa., and Eugene Armstrong, a 52-year-old contractor from Hillsdale, Mich. Jack Hensley, a 48-year-old engineer from Marietta, Ga., was abducted at the same time as Armstrong and also killed.

Armstrong's family didn't want to discuss al-Zarqawi Thursday morning.
"An evil man is dead, and what more can you say?" said family spokeswoman Cyndi Armstrong, the wife of the slain contractor's cousin.

Nicholas Berg's father, a pacifist who is running for Delaware's U.S. House seat on the Green Party ticket, said al-Zarqawi's death is likely to foster anti-American resentment among al-Qaida members who feel they have nothing left to lose.

He dismissed the notion that al-Zarqawi's death might bring him closure.

"First of all, I'm not even certain that al-Zarqawi even killed my son," said Michael Berg, who doesn't believe the videotape of his son's execution or what he's been told by the FBI any more than he believes conspiracy theories suggesting his son was killed by the U.S. government.

"I think the news of the loss of any human being is a tragedy. I think al-Zarqawi's death is a double tragedy," he said. "His death will incite a new wave of revenge. George Bush and al-Zarqawi are two men who believe in revenge."

Berg said "restorative justice," - such as being forced to work in a hospital where maimed children are treated - could have made al-Zarqawi "a decent human being.

Al-Zarqawi was killed by a U.S. airstrike on a remote area 30 miles northeast of Baghdad. Al-Qaida in Iraq confirmed his death and vowed to continue its "holy war," according to a statement posted on a Web site. The group has taken responsibility for numerous mortar attacks, suicide bombings, beheadings and other violence against U.S. and Iraqi targets in the past few years.

President Bush, speaking outside the White House Thursday morning, said al-Zarqawi's death was "a severe blow" to al-Qaida but the war on terror would continue.

"This violent man will never murder again," Bush said.

[Dennis Gonzalez]

Originally Posted by jazzbluescat

Whoa, $25,000,000! Wonder who's gonna cash in on that.

I shot the sheriff...

Originally Posted by Dubya

"This violent man will never murder again."

Again, I am overwhelmed by Bush's analytical powers. I really didn't realize the obvious, that if a man is dead, he won't murder again. My smart president rules!

Originally Posted by Mingus

...is a different cultural expression of a global wave of reaction against modernity, that expresses itself in the form of religious (not Moslem, religious) fundamentalism and a resurgent tribalism in the form of an ever more fragmented nationalism, the most reactionary of which is based primarily on ethnicity.

Sounds a bit too familiar. Remember the I'm Scared thread? How about the National Guard's being posted to the southern border? How about "they gotta learn our language". The new American Tribalism.

[lynn]

Originally Posted by Gordon B

Strategy Page published this, yesterday. If he was killed by his own team, I guess the $25M bounty doesn't get paid.

Zarqawi Scheduled for Martyrdom

June 7, 2006: The relationship between terrorist leader Abu Musab al Zarqawi and and the mainline al Qaeda leadership continues to deteriorate. Zarqawi's recent audio messages have not only attacked the U.S. and the Shia-dominated government in Iraq, but also Iran. He's even claiming that the U.S., Iran, and Shia in general, are in cahoots to destroy Islam. He has also called for continued attacks against Shia.



Except for his verbal attacks on the U.S. and the Iraqi government, he is almost totally distanced himself from the central leadership. Other al Qaeda leaders have been trying to down play anti-Iranian and anti-Shia rhetoric, and have been strongly discouraging attacks on civilians.



Given that Zarqawi has become a loose cannon and that his actions are handicapping Al Qaeda's efforts, it seems reasonable to expect that an accident may befall him at some point in the near future. If handled right it can be made to look like he went out in a blaze of glory fighting American troops or that he was foully murdered. Either way, al Qaeda gets rid of a problem and gains another "martyr."
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htm.../20060607.aspx

Plausable. Probable. And the administation is being pretty low key relative to the significance of this. They have a chain of command too. As far as slowing down the intensity of the fighting, I doubt it.

[Scott Dolan]

Originally Posted by Monte Smith

"America, you lose!" jihadist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi told a table of his confederates including his spiritual guru Sheik Abd-al-Rahman on Wednesday as the drone of American warplanes first was heard in the distance.

Hahahaha..........

A slogan that I thought would die a quick death in the humor department still seems fresh each and every time.

[Gary Sisco]

I don't think they let American bomber pilots cash in on bounties.

[Gary Sisco]

Being dead doesn't mean he isn't right.

You can't kill a headless thing by shooting it in the head.

The US has already lost any point it was trying to make about savagery and violence in any case, by revealing in globally public terms its disdain for soft-headed things like the Geneva Conventions, forgetting -- as usual -- a very important one of those conventions: an aggressor nation's soldiers are not subject to their protections. The US is very clearly the aggressor nation in Iraq.

One day the US will again be talking loud about Geneva. It's inevitable that some GIs will become POWs.

No one will care when they start up about Geneva, however, because the US has already rendered its protections moot. Idiotically.

[patricia]

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

Being dead doesn't mean he isn't right.

You can't kill a headless thing by shooting it in the head.

At least the impulse was resisted to crow "We got 'im", as they did when Saddam Hussein was captured. The phrase "a turning point" was also avoided. There have been so many.
The biggest question seemed to be who gets the bounty. I think that whoever pointed out his whereabouts will have a target on his/her back and isn't likely to step up to collect the reward. There are no pockets in a shroud.

[Gary Sisco]

Likely because there are some who are smart enough to realize that capturing Saddam meant nothing in the end to the outcome of the invasion, never mind the war.

[groover]

At least Zarqawi, unlike Saddam, really was connected to Al-Qaeda.

[Gentle Giant]

Uh oh, now we got them angry.

I'm not sure there is any real leadership over there; I think it's very decentralized, lots of cells and all that. Don't think this changes much.

[Tom Storer]

Originally Posted by Gordon B

Strategy Page published this, yesterday.

[...]

Given that Zarqawi has become a loose cannon and that his actions are handicapping Al Qaeda's efforts, it seems reasonable to expect that an accident may befall him at some point in the near future. If handled right it can be made to look like he went out in a blaze of glory fighting American troops or that he was foully murdered. Either way, al Qaeda gets rid of a problem and gains another "martyr."
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htm.../20060607.aspx

According to the account I read in the news, US forces acted on "tips and intelligence", so it could be that rival AQ factions sold him out.

[Gary Sisco]

What else would they act on -- random bombings of houses?

Oh, wait a minute.

I forgot there for a second....

[Gordon B]

Originally Posted by Tom Storer

According to the account I read in the news, US forces acted on "tips and intelligence", so it could be that rival AQ factions sold him out.

Could be. Whoever tipped us off, it's good news.

[Squaredancecalling Steve]

CNN was reporting that an arrest of an AQ leader in Jordan a week or so ago started the process, and that local residents provided the specifics.

[Gary Sisco]

Who's "us"? You got a mouse in your pocket?

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

I don't think they let American bomber pilots cash in on bounties.

They "didn't know" who shot the sheriff at the time I posted. Why am I defending myself...

[Al in NYC]

Hey, we only had to kill thousands and spend billions to get our man...

...and it took us only four and a half years!

This just points up again what's sadly funny in the midst of the bloodbath, and all of the self-righteous pseudo-patriotic chest-beating crap that has accompanied it, is the degree to which the U.S. is showing yet again what a hapless (and clueless) paper tiger it really is.

[Scott Dolan]

Right.

[groover]

Did anyone see Rumsfeld's response at this morning's press conference to the Italian journalist who asked what effect the withdrawal of Italian troops would have on the Iraq coalition effort? He neglected to mention that there would be no more fresh hand-tossed pizza available in the mess hall tents.

[GoodSpeak]

Originally Posted by jesus marion joseph

Good riddance.

Exactly, JMJ.

[Mingus]

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

It's a historical wave of reaction and so not something that any one or group of governments can do much if anything about -- *except,* if managed by the halfway sane and brained, to do one's best to both avoid provoking its most militant sections while at the same time trying to establish friendships or at least minimal trust outside those sections...

or an iron fisted Dictator.