Dental Woes

[cookie]

Oh, man! Bad news. I've had this intermittent toothache for the past couple months. Got so bad over the weekend I called for an appointment on Monday. The appointment was today.

The inside of the tooth rotted so bad, that half of it fell away when the doc tried to fill it. I'll need root canal and then a crown. Cost of root canal=$550. Cost of crown=$750. Beautiful smile?=priceless.

She also said I have other cavities that should get attention, but here's the big problem: I don't have dental insurance. My husband's medical plan is good EXCEPT for lack of dental. He does get some kind of reimbursement, but I think it's only good up to $400.

Dental insurance is hard to come by. Even when I worked for the public schools, dental insurance was not part of the insurance plan. The only time we ever had dental insurance was when James worked for Cornell for a while. It was great!! The whole family went and got all the necessary repairs. But for the past, oh, 7 years or so, we haven't had dental. We don't go for cleanings (though we do brush/floss regularly). We only go for emergencies. One of my kids broke a tooth which will eventually need to be capped. He could use braces, too, but forget it!

Man! I was hoping to buy a new keyboard, too.

The one bit of good news the dentist could offer is that at least it hadn't turned into a disgusting abcess. Thank goodness for small favors.

Anybody else have any dental woe and frustration they want to get off their chest?? I'm just so frustrated with the insurance situation, not just mine, but the general situation with insurance in this country. I just thank god that I have insurance at all, but the dental situation is incredibly frustrating. Problems with teeth can bring all kinds of secondary diseases. I wish I could afford to have regular maintenance and cleaning for my family.

Oy! This is something I didn't need today.

[Gentle Giant]

Dental insurance, especially for individuals, is hard to come by. I had to really bitch for a while before my employer offered it.

If you're dentist is cool, see if he/she will give you a payment plan.

But don't forego the work; dental health is as important as medical health, and if you get infections in your mouth, they'll spread. Use a fluoride rinse after brushing.

[groover]

Most dental plans will only cover about half the cost, and have an annual cap of about $1000. But you've got to get it taken care of, as Jason said, or it can lead to more serious health problems.

[hornplayer]

I'm Just Here For the Food by Alton Brown: a super-informative discussion of the chemistry of cooking

GG is spot on, Cookie! My Grandfather DIED from periodontal infections he neglected ..and neglected ... and neglected. Swallowing that poison for so long brought about heart disease. That was before I was born, but I've read in several places that this definitely can be the upshot of not taking care of your mouth. My dad was loath to go to see doctors, but he went to the dentist religiously twice a year!

I have a wonderful dentist... a Jazz trumpet player, who gives "artists" a 20% discount on most services. and besides, he lets you choose the tunes he plays while you're in the chair, and uses all the latest equipment, so it's rare if you feel a thing.

[Coda]

I've always had problems with my teeth. It's a silent disease without pain until something like what you're experiencing surfaces.

I recommend that you look for a dental university in your area. Most offer deep discounts to entice patients to let students 'practice' on them. I can understand your initial reaction of letting a student work on your teeth but my experience was not at all like my nightmare.

I think I went to Tufts School of Dentistry in Boston. It's been almost 15 years since using them, and their dental work has held the test of time.

The students are under close supervision, each step in the process was reviewed and signed off by a professor/dentist. They are actually being graded on the quality of their work so they too have an investment in the outcome. In my case students are assigned patients for the duration of their internship so you don't get a new student for each procedure. If you feel that you got a bad egg, you can always ask to be reassigned.

Good luck.

[cookie]

Yeah, I think you're right about inquiring about a payment plan. There's no question I have to have the work done. That tooth, though in the back, is in view when I'm in full-on wail.

I don't want dentures so I'm fighting hard to deal with my teeth as well as possible. I've heard some older singers who have dentures and there is sometimes an unpleasant sibilance. Perhaps it's a matter of fit. My mother's worn them since I was a kid and you'd never know from her appearance, speaking, or singing that they weren't real.

But I don't want to go that route. Instead, I'm going to just have to bite the bullet (ha ha berry punny), dig deep, and cut down on any luxuries I might have to.

Fortunately, my Steely Dan tix are already paid for.

[clinthopson]

Cookster, It must be our week.

I went into my friendly neighborhood dentist the other day for a crown replacement (it was 25 years old) and when they took off the old crown and x-rayed it they found that the nerves were gone and an abcess was starting to form.

Of I went to the endodontist whence he performed the first stage of a root canal. 1 1/2 hours with my mough propped wide open and the guy putting his hands, arms, and elbows in my mouth to clean out the roots.


In a couple of weeks I'll go back and the endomonster will finish the procedure then back to el dentista for the new crown.


Crown - $950
Root canal - $1,200
Fucking sore jaw

No more dental work - priceless.

[Coda]

If you're a singer you'll want to be careful about pariodontal work (if you even need this). If the procedure is done on the front of your mouth it's likely that you'll experience a change in how you articulate.

[cookie]

Originally Posted by hornplayer

I have a wonderful dentist... a Jazz trumpet player, who gives "artists" a 20% discount on most services. and besides, he lets you choose the tunes he plays while you're in the chair, and uses all the latest equipment, so it's rare if you feel a thing.

Oh, God bless him!!

The tunes sucked. I was very uptight and trying to use breath management to relax. At one point the doc says, "Just relax and concentrate on the music." But the music didn't interest me at all. It wasn't terrible---just classic light pop/rock but it sure didn't distract me from the horror show in my mouth.

I could have used some really serious free jazz, man. Honest. I think that's the only thing that could have kept my head occupied enough to float with the drill, man.

[rollhead]

Thank god I work for a union, and I belong to a union. My teeth, my wife's teeth and my children's teeth are all well covered.

I know what you are going through, though because I put off having my teeth looked at when I wasn't covered. Had to go through several rounds of root canals, crowns, etc.

Now, if Coda and his other rightwingers, get their way ... only the rich will have coverage and the rest of us will be going to the barber-dentist-surgeon for health care.

[Jimmy Cantiello]

Originally Posted by hornplayer

I have a wonderful dentist... a Jazz trumpet player, who gives "artists" a 20% discount on most services.

I'm a bullshit artist. Does that count?............

[cookie]

Originally Posted by clinthopson

Cookster, It must be our week.

Clint, that's a drag. Hope it's painless as possible and done REAL soon.

Rollhead: my husband belongs to a union too (as did I as a teacher). I wish that they would put more importance on the dental insurance in negotiations. He's a government employee, too. The little reimbursement program they have for "miscellaneous" health costs like glasses and teeth was sort of a compromise in the last contract negotiation. It *does* help, especially with the glasses. However, dental care is *so* much more expensive!

And in this town, there are some dentists who won't deal with insurance at all, even if you have it. Or they might not deal with YOUR insurance. And if you're on Medicaid?? Fuggedaboutit. The last I heard, there was only one dentist in all of Tompkins County that was accepting Medicaid (though I think my husband mentioned that a couple more signed on relatively recently).

It's crazy! And this is the People's Republic of Tompkins, too. Why is dental care considered so separately from one's overall health? We *know* that oral health is key to overall health! I don't get the disconnect.

Re: peridontal disease---is that gum disease? The problems are pretty much in the teeth themselves right now. My gums don't bleed or anything like that. But what I feel is that if I don't take care of the problems that have crept up over time, it's going to go downhill fast.

[rollhead]

Originally Posted by cookie

Rollhead: my husband belongs to a union too (as did I as a teacher). I wish that they would put more importance on the dental insurance in negotiations.

Sounds like they need to bring in the SWAT team from the international!

[Dan G]

I'll second Coda's recommendation of a dental school. I've never gone that way myself, but know people who have and have never heard of a problem.

I've had dental coverage, of varying quality, off and on over the past 20 years, with long periods of not seeing a dentist. Luckily, my wife and I both have good coverage now because we work at a university (academia provides the best benefits!), and with what they call 'coordinated benefits', when one hits a maximum, the other kicks in. Over the 5 years that we've had it, we've spent at least $15000 on dental, and not one cent out of pocket. Most was for me: a crown, a root canal, replacing old fillings... The worst was major surgery for impacted wisdom teeth (at age 42). I now have perrmanent nerve damage in my lower lip and gum that causes odd tingling occassionally, but if i had done it years ago when another dentist proposed it, I would have come out fine. That surgery alone was $6000.

For the first couple years on this new plan, I dreaded going for a cleaning because they were always finding something else to work on. I blame it on so many years, even as a kid, of not seeing a dentist. Everyone should go to a dentist regularly; scrounge up the couple of hundred $$ it takes for annual check and twice yearly cleaning - it is worth it in the long run.

[patricia]

For sure the annual, at least, checking and cleaning is worth it in the long run. The upside is that if they find something wrong, in it's early stages, they can usually fix it cheaper then, than later.

[John P. Cooper]

CODA hit it right!

If you live near a major county hospital or university with a dental school, try them. They work at very very very low prices, usually using advanced dental students working under the supervision of acredited dentists and professors.

I needed a tooth pulled and my old dentist wanted 800 bucks to put me under and pull it. He wanted 350. to simply numb me up and pull it.

The USC dental clinic charged me either 40 or 60 dollars to do the same thing. Had to wait a couple of hours, but hey...they have the latest equipment and methods...as opposed to some older docs who are not as up to date. The dentist I had did a fine job. Totally painless.

Check it out and save a fortune.

[rollhead]

Originally Posted by Coda

I recommend that you look for a dental university in your area. .... I think I went to Tufts School of Dentistry in Boston. It's been almost 15 years since using them, and their dental work has held the test of time.

Just as I suspected. Coda proves himself to be an archtypical rightwing hypocrite.

I did some research on the Tufts Dental clinic, and found that it was founded with the help of federal grants at Tufts under the aegis of "the Departmetn of Social Dentistry."

If it was up to Coda and his ilk, that clinic wouldn't exist now.

While Coda and Cooper go around spouting bromides like Reagan's "gub-mit isn't the solution, gub-mint is the problem."

It turns out, at least when it comes to Coda's teeth, "gub-mint" at least in the form of a commie, pinko "Department of Social Dentistry," was, indeed, the solution.


"Louis J.P. Calisti, a faculty member since 1956, accepted the deanship in 1963. he was a graduate of the University of Pennsylvania Dental School and had earned an M.P.H degree from Harvard's School of Public Health. He introduced modern dental public health concepts at the school and displayed a facility for acquiring federal grants in a time of government largess, which had created the Department of Social Dentistry while Hein was still dean."

"As a dentist trained in public health, Calisti realized that the unmet needs of dental care could be met by devolving a trained cadre of dental assistants using the novel four-handed dentistry concept. With federal funding, he set out to establish dental auxiliary utilization (DAU) at Tufts."

"In a location adjacent to the dental school, he created space for his project at no cost to the school. He recruited dentists from outside the facility to supervise the 10-chair clinic that utilized five trained dental assistants, a clinic manager, and a laboratory technician. Fourth year dental students enjoyed their first encounter with modern dental practice during each student's rotation through the model clinic."

[jesus marion joseph]

I went without dental insurance for abut 20 years, during which time I didn't go to a dentist at all. A few years ago I got dental, went or a cleaning and exam, fully expecting at least one cavity, and was pleasantly surprised to have none (other than the ones I ad filled when I was about 18. The hygenist couldn't believe I went that long without a proper cleaning and had no cavities. I attribute it to my Germanic horse teeth and brushing *at least* once a day!

[cookie]

Unfortunately, there isn't a dental college in town. I'm not even sure there's one in Syracuse. However, my husband told me that there is a new free dental clinic (probably wouldn't be totally free for us, but it might have a sliding fee scale).

I'm going to have to figure it out soon. There are little pieces of the temporary filling breaking off. And now that the novocaine is 100% gone, the pain is nasty. I'm going to try some Tylenol.

I've been lucky not to have TOO many tooth problems---nothing like some of my friends. I *was* fortunate to get excellent dental care as a child. My mother took us every 6 months like clockwork. It was very important to her because she lost her teeth young. Oh, and the State of Maine (for whom my dad worked) *did* provide the dental insurance. We had a great relationship with the dentist and I remember him still---Dr. Dubord. At every visit, he'd let you pick out a cheap cracker-jack ring!

The thought of a drink is really tempting. I'm tellin' ya, the best way to get through a toothache is drunk. I'm not going in that direction, but boy the thought has crossed my mind!!

[groover]

Try rinsing the affected area with Listerine, or some other mouthwash with enough alcohol in it to act as a local anaesthetic. Don't swallow!

[Noj]

The worst pain of my life was tooth-related. My sympathies.

[Borat Pri Hagafen]

Originally Posted by cookie

O I'll need root canal and then a crown. Cost of root canal=$550. Cost of crown=$750. Beautiful smile?=priceless.


Man! I was hoping to buy a new keyboard, too.

I'll see that, and raise you a 2nd root canal/crown. I had to have 2 of them last year, and I also have no dental insurance. The upside is that I'm perfectly content with my current keyboard. The downside is that I haven't been able to travel in a year and a half, and whenever anyone asks me why, i say "because i had to spend that money on 2 fucking root canals". It sucks, it's a long, annoying process, but ultimately as others have said, it's ridiculously foolish not to deal with it now. As far as the actual procedure, I've had a total of 3 root canals in my life, and while it's not the ideal way to spend your time, i had a far worse time when my wisdom teeth came out. Now that sucked.

[John P. Cooper]

Originally Posted by rollhead

While Coda and Cooper go around spouting bromides like Reagan's "gub-mit isn't the solution, gub-mint is the problem."

I've never said anything like that ever. I went to twice to the USC clinic which is a private school and I went one time to the LA County dental clinic. I paid hard cash.

Is there a compelling need to turn this into a political debate when all we are trying to do is offer some very much needed advice to someone or others in need of it?

[clinthopson]

The only dental school in Southern California is USC and that's not exactly in our neighborhood.

It's ok to go to a barber colege for a haircut because you can always recover from a bad haircut, but a dental school?

[rollhead]

Originally Posted by John P. Cooper

I've never said anything like that ever. I went to twice to the USC clinic which is a private school and I went one time to the LA County dental clinic. I paid hard cash.

Is there a compelling need to turn this into a political debate when all we are trying to do is offer some very much needed advice to someone or others in need of it?

There is a compelling need to point out hypocricy where it exists, and that people, such as yourself and Coda who are promoting the use of a social services, are the same people who are undermining those services by supporting rightwing politics.

If someone else were to use that service, I am sure you and Coda would be the first to turn bright red and scream "WELFARE QUEEN!"

If you paid "hard cash" at a county clinic, it was undoubtedly subsidized by tax dollars. I would be surprised if the USC clinic wasn't also supported, at least in part, by public dollars.

It is rightwingers -- such as yourself -- who work assiduously to shut down public clinics and public hospital emergency rooms, which are often the last resort for the uninsured.

Right now the country is facing an acute emergency room shortage in part because the current administraiton and Republican Congress refuses to support and/or deal with the issue of health insurance for over 40 million Americans.

You might have a toothache now, but it could be much worse if we get hit with a pandemic of avian flu -- and because of the "successess" of Reagan/Bush/Bush -- there aren't enough beds in emergency rooms to take care of the crisis.

There were almost 114 million emergency-room visits in 2003, up from 90 million a decade earlier. Only about half were true medical emergencies. When the poor and uninsured cannot get healthcare anywhere else, they go to emergency rooms, which must treat them regardless of ability to pay.

But I am sure if you have private health insurance -- you could give a rat's ass about the 10s of millions of Americans who don't.

It might take a few million root canals -- without anesthetics -- at public dental clinics to actually fix what is wrong with medical and dental care/insurance in this country.

It was one of those "gub-mint" loving "liberals" -- the kind you and Coda love to hate -- who helped you at the public or federally supported dental clinic.

[Dr Dave]

Cookie, may I suggest that you pick up a copy of "Experience: A Memoir" by Martin Amis. In it, Amis recounts his own dental woes in appalling and excruciating detail. There is a famous review of this part of the book by Katherine Catmull in the Austin Times, which I quote here:

"Amis is at his best on the subject of his gruesome dental saga, which occupies many painful pages. The press misrepresented these woes in a particularly galling way (Amis was mocked for spending tens of thousands for "cosmetic surgery"), which must provide some fuel for his writerly fire. But there's more going on here. Amis writes almost nothing about his collapsed marriage: no explanation, no defense, and virtually no mention of his first wife. Instead, all his most ferocious angst, his bitterest wit, are concentrated on the dental surgery, which begins to sound quite a lot like the anguish of divorce. Amis writes about how he neglected his already bad teeth until the problems became catastrophic, until the whole lot must be wrenched out. He elaborates the process in excruciating, self-lacerating detail: the agony of the removal, the transitional facelessness, the awkward new set that must be got used to. When the teeth come out, "Really I was saying goodbye to myself," he writes. He never makes the divorce-dentistry connection explicit, but he doesn't need to; he simply exercises his best black talent, the energy that boils furiously and relentlessly out of his finest prose."

I remember reading the book shortly before getting a root-canal/crown job. After reading about Martin's agonies, it was a walk in the park...

[John P. Cooper]

Originally Posted by rollhead

There is a compelling need to point out hypocricy where it exists...............supported dental clinic.

RH -

You make so many assumptions and generalizations and miscategorizations in your post. You're ranting and raving like a demented person on a street corner.

I'm sorry, but this is all the time I have for your psychosis.

[John P. Cooper]

Originally Posted by clinthopson

The only dental school in Southern California is USC and that's not exactly in our neighborhood.

It's ok to go to a barber colege for a haircut because you can always recover from a bad haircut, but a dental school?

As far as I can remember, these students were not first year students and were quite far along in their schooling. They were supervised with 'on patrol' accredited dentists and/or professors.

The same thing applied at the LA County clinic....and I think they were associated in some way with USC. Skilled, accredited doctors all over the place. When the root I had on a tooth was perplexing the young woman due to it's curved nature, she asked the doctor who was standing 10 feet away to take a look. He did, told her what to do and she did it. FWIW - she needed to be pulling up and out on an angle instead of straight up b/c of the curvature of the root.

At no time did I feel at risk. The place was swarming with doctors. They do a brisk business there.

Sidebar - FWIW - the only error she made was she accidently jabbed her hand with the syringe she had used to numb me up...and she went into a very controlled panic like I have never seen before. She told the doctor what had happened and the doctor asked if I would mind taking a blood test up on the next floor. They needed to know if she was in any danger. I said, 'sure' and they told me where it was, Then he said, 'Jeff here will show you where it is'. And I said to him, 'you just want to make sure I go there, don't you?' And he said very hinestly, "yes". The girl was very scared. There was no problem and I got a free blood test out of the deal.

[GoodSpeak]

Originally Posted by Noj

The worst pain of my life was tooth-related. My sympathies.

Exactly.


Crown, here.

[John P. Cooper]

My once regular dentist nearly killed me once. She began drilling into a tooth, then stopped b/c she said it was "calcified". Unfortunately, she filled the small cavity in a tooth which apparently had abcessed. She said I would feel a 'little pain' later and to take some Tylenol.

She was insane.

As the anesthetic began to wear off, I began to feel the worst pain I have ever felt in my life. My head was throbbing. She had plugged up the cavity and there was no place for the tooth to drain or whatever.

The pain became so great that I was mixing pain killers and booze to try and stop..something which I have never done before or since. It felt like a hammer was hitting my head.

I called the endodontist and scheduled an appointment for the next morning to have it pulled.

By 9 pm I was barely able to focus and speak. It was brutal torture.
Finally, the throbbing, killing pain settled down into a contstant pressure. I slept a little.

I woke up and the entire left side of my face was swollen up.

A dear and now departed friend drove me to the endo. They were amazed. They pulled the tooth and most of the pain ceased.

The swelling took 3 - 4 days to go down.

It was nightmare.